BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 05:31 PM

EBarnacle, I'm not surprised to read that.

I made the interesting mistake of having the sound muted all the way off
when recently surfing through television channels.

And what to my wondering eyes should appear,
but Donald Trump before a live audience somewhere.

Silent, mind you. The audience was obviously giving sustained applause.
And Trump stood there grinning like the Cheshire Cat
and vibrating as though he were purring like one as well.
An unforgettable image.

And no, I didn't turn the sound on, in response.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 02:04 PM

Another gem this week:

“I’m a very handsome person. So I guess a lot of you want to sit and look at me. It’s a beauty pageant. It’s amazing.”

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 12:29 PM

I really think he's going senile. This is just a sample of his latest:

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-us-spelling-genius-b2434774.html

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 01:32 PM

They're flippin' like hotcakes. The major issue will be to prove intent.

Subject: RE: Tech: 500 Error - Blocked threads? You can help
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Nov 23 - 03:33 PM

The Trump kids are having to testify this week. First up, Don, Jr. Donald Trump Jr. is testifying at the Trump fraud trial in New York. Here's what to know.

The former president's eldest son began testifying shortly before 3 p.m. Wednesday afternoon after hours of testimony by expert witnesses earlier in the day. Eric Trump, Ivanka Trump and their father Donald Trump are also expected to be sworn in to testify under oath in the coming days.

The Trump Organization, the former president and his two adult sons are accused of engaging in a fraud scheme that netted them hundreds of millions of dollars by falsely inflating property valuations, and Donald Trump's wealth, in deals with banks and insurers. Ivanka Trump was named as a defendant when the state's lawsuit was filed in September 2022, but a New York court later dismissed the claims against her for being outside the statute of limitations.

The judge has not allowed TV cameras to film the trial, meaning his questioning is not being live-streamed. CBS News has reporters on the scene to witness his testimony, and this story will be updated with the latest developments.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 23 - 12:14 AM

According to CNN, Fani Willis has discussed plea deals with six more of the Trump co-defendants in Georgia.

The strategy by District Attorney Fani Willis’ office is clear: get as many co-defendants as possible to flip on the former president, leaving Trump and perhaps a few close allies on the hot seat. . . .A source with knowledge of the Fulton County DA’s strategy tells CNN that it would be open to discussing plea deals with anyone, but there is little room for compromise when it comes to the charges against Trump.

"The first to squeal gets the deal."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 04:29 PM

The judge fined him another $10,000 for ignoring the gag order. And though under cross examination Trump's attorney was able to show that Cohen had lied twice in the Senate hearings (before he was charged and pleaded guilty, etc.) but as the commentators noted, under later examination Cohen "was able to square that circle" and testify why the earlier testimony was a lie. I think he was still on the Trump team at that time.

It has been noted that this New York trial isn't the one that would include jail time (in the penalty), UNLESS it is jail time during the trial due to breaking the gag order. I'm guessing there is money bet on Trump's behavior and that outcome - more fines, or possibly jail.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 10:54 PM

Cassidy Hutchinson was on the Ari Melber program on MSNBC this evening - he timed it because today another network broke a story that former Chief of Staff Meadows was granted immunity by Jack Smith in that Washington, D.C. trial. Hutchinson plays her cards pretty close to the vest, not sharing information that isn't already out there (from the hearings or her book - there is still information that will probably never be shared publicly for security reasons) but she generally thinks it is past time for Meadows to come clean and cooperate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 11:50 AM

His gag order says he can't say anything nasty about the co-conspirators or witnesses (and now she is both) so I guess the best he can do is deny her existence.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 11:32 AM

Former Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis pleads guilty in Georgia case

At an unscheduled hearing in Atlanta, Ellis pleaded guilty to one count of aiding and abetting false statements, a felony stemming from the election lies that Ellis and other Donald Trump lawyers peddled to Georgia lawmakers in December 2020.

She was sentenced to five years of probation and ordered to pay $5,000 in restitution.

Ellis delivered a tearful statement to the judge Tuesday while pleading guilty, disavowing her participation in Trump’s unprecedented attempts to overturn the 2020 election.

“If I knew then what I knew now, I would have declined to represent Donald Trump in these post-election challenges. I look back on this experience with deep remorse,” Ellis said, her voice breaking at times. . . . The plea from Ellis implicated Giuliani in a state crime – lying to Georgia legislators by peddling false voter-fraud theories. This comes one week after Chesebro implicated Giuliani in the fake electors scheme that tried to subvert the Electoral College process. Giuliani denies wrongdoing.

According to court filings, Ellis admitted that she “intentionally aided and abetted” Giuliani and another Trump lawyer, Ray Smith, in “in knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully making … false statements to members of the Georgia Senate.”

That's three lawyers and the bail bondsman so far, of the 19 originally charged. So far these folks are getting off really light with probation and fines.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 23 - 10:57 AM

That secret vote tanked Jordan's hopes. If they were able to conduct a secret vote for the new speaker they could probably put Jeffries in place in one vote even if he is from the "other" party. Same with someone like Liz Cheney.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Oct 23 - 06:18 PM

Trump is reliving a time in his prime when the Teflon Don won three straight lawsuits in a row in standing-room-only NYC courtrooms and streets full of cheering crowds. At night there were fireworks celebrations. It is not turning out that way for Trump as it did for John Gotti. The fourth indictment put John away for life.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 05:28 PM

Trump approved and election denier Mr. Johnson became Speaker by one vote. Trump warned, "do not shut the door on my Johnson". Democrats call Johnson a Jim Jordan but with a sports coat.

Meadows will testify as to Trump's intent/Mens Rea.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 04:39 PM

After Trump stormed out of court, the judge has now called all the lawyers back into court including Donald. The judge is back in control of his courtroom but I have no idea what he is saying or doing right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 03:41 PM

Trump has hissy fit in court

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 07:00 AM

Mark Meadows took an immunity deal from the prosecutors. A plea deal is different from immunity which can immediately put Mark in prison if he lies again. Those indicted and taking deals in Georgia are like dominos falling and should now testify against Trump.

The made for TV Republican Congressmen are no longer characters in Game of Thrones but are behaving like Southpark kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 23 - 06:21 AM

9 more candidates have thrown their hat in the ring for Speaker.
Only Emmet is best known. I fear the winner will only be an anonymous hat. I don't know if the rules will allow a hat to be elected.;*/
In 2 weeks...
The US government shutdown and the Israel invasion will probably coincide.

Subject: BS: Halloween '23
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 23 - 09:57 AM

Orange jumpsuits and Trump masks are selling out in DC.
Biden costumes are just old man-tyme outfits.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 23 - 10:43 AM

If you have ever baled hay you know what haywire means when applied to the Republican House. It is a wasteful horrid tangled mess that requires wire cutters and starting over.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 11:48 AM

I noticed this the other day

Trump Denies Sidney Powell Was Ever His Lawyer

Surely that is a dangerous claim for him to make. As she was obviously on his legal team she would have been under a lawyer/clent confidentiality agreement. Now he has said she never was on his legal team, anything she heard in confidence is no longer under wraps. Or am I missing something?

Subject: RE: BS: 500 Error - Blocked threads? You can help
From: Charmion
Date: 30 Oct 23 - 04:09 PM

Helen, I've always wondered that. I think Ivanka looks like something made of extruded plastic.

Subject: RE: 500 Error - Blocked threads? You can help
From: Helen
Date: 30 Oct 23 - 08:02 PM

Sorry, that was the comment about Ivanka that I've tried to post in the Trump thread. I didn't mean to start the discussion about her in this one. I posted it here my mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: 500 Error - Blocked threads?
From: Helen
Date: 30 Oct 23 - 02:19 PM

I forgot to say that the photo of Ivanka in the article I mentioned looks like an AI generated image and not a photo of a real live human. Is she a real live human? I wonder! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Helen
Date: 27 Oct 23 - 11:36 PM

Donald Trump to testify in New York fraud trial, along with children Ivanka, Donald Jr and Eric

Key points:

* The lawsuit alleges Mr Trump overstated his wealth for years on financial statements
* Mr Trump denies any wrongdoing and has called the trial a politically motivated sham
* The case could strip Mr Trump of some corporate holdings and marquee properties such as Trump Tower

And in the last part of the article there is an interesting analysis of why Ivanka's testimony is deemed relevant, even though "her lawyers may appeal to try to block her testimony".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 Sep 23 - 10:33 PM

There has been no constitutional authorization for the Biden investigation. It is nothing more than Republicans pretending to hold impeachment hearings because Kevin McCarthy said so.

That methinks is of a piece with the entire Trump charade: all smoke, mirrors and Cable TV newsbites.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 25 Sep 23 - 09:10 AM

Meanwhile, here's some context for Trump's actions (from the Washington Post, which I can't access, via RISKS Digest, which I can), which explains the fœtid waters he swims in:

Misinformation research is buckling under GOP legal attacks (WashPost)

Academics, universities and government agencies are overhauling or
ending research programs designed to counter the spread of online
misinformation amid a legal campaign from conservative politicians and
activists who accuse them of colluding with tech companies to censor
right-wing views.

The escalating campaign --- led by Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) and other
Republicans in Congress and state government --- has cast a pall over
programs that study not just political falsehoods but also the quality
of medical information online.

Facing litigation, Stanford University officials are discussing how
they can continue tracking election-related misinformation through the
Election Integrity Partnership (EIP), a prominent consortium that
flagged social media conspiracies about voting in 2020 and 2022,
several participants told The Washington Post. The coalition of
disinformation researchers may shrink and also may stop communicating
with X and Facebook about their findings.

The National Institutes of Health froze a $150 million program intended
to advance the communication of medical information, citing regulatory
and legal threats. Physicians told The Post that they had planned to
use the grants to fund projects on noncontroversial topics such as
nutritional guidelines and not just politically charged issues such as
vaccinations that have been the focus of the conservative allegations.

NIH officials sent a memo in July to some employees, warning them not
to flag misleading social media posts to tech companies and to limit
their communication with the public to answering medical questions.

Personal opinion: This is the hidden face of Cancel Culture. Welcome to Room 101.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 18 Sep 23 - 11:57 AM

> Maybe he thinks he did beat Obama.

Given that [according to legend] he stood the first time because Obama teased him in public ....

.... then again, that statement may just be a side-effect of them-and-us-itis.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Sep 23 - 10:01 PM

> It isn't an impeachment, it is an impeachment inquiry.

Thanks for noting the distinction, SRS: that had escaped our notice here. But it does mean the I word gets put in a headline, so the offender's fanbase salivates on queue.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 08:35 AM

> It probably takes someone like Trump to normalize the unthinkable.

Normalising the unthinkable is the standard MO of antisocial meeja, and TV and newspapers before that, and all for the same reason: outrage drives income. The Orange Buffoon is, after all, at least partly the product of (un)reality TV .... *how* long did he spend in Makeup before that mugshot?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 10:33 PM

> If it is Trump, he doesn't ever know he has done wrong

He doesn't ever *admit* he's done wrong, Helen. I'm no shrink, but methinks that smacked-bottom face is his subconscious trying to get through to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 10:18 PM

> As long as they keep supporting Trump, they are irrelevant.

*Agree*, Stilly: the Eight Dwarves are not so much leading as following from the front. But they (and Trump, for that matter) have a tiger-by-the-tail problem: once you're at the head of a zombie army, it's unwise to stumble.

Hm: four metaphors in one paragraph. Is this a record?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 23 - 05:29 PM

Just seen this on the telly:

Asked for his advice to the next House speaker, Biden laughed and said: “That’s above my pay grade.”

Now that's what I call class...   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 06:09 PM

Good, measured post on polls, Lighter. As I said, polling is embedded in our democracies. Polls are just one factor in influencing the electorate. Right-wing mass media and lying politicians are probably far more influential. We can't silence any of 'em. That's democracy for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 01:43 PM

Too many polls are flawed by asking less-than-representative samples of people, samples that are too small and by asking leading questions, often by polls which seek a particular outcome. There are reputable pollsters who work on these things. Polls, whether you like it or not, are embedded in our democratic process. The UK forbids polling on the day of the election except for exit polls, which tend be be extremely accurate. If you want to ban polls (I'm sure you don't), we should also be banning tabloid newspapers and Fox/Sky News, which have the same baleful influences on the electorate that you list.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 07:19 AM

This piece in today's Guardian reveals a ray of hope (without having to mention the colour of Trump's face and other irrelevancies that might cheer us up but which get us nowhere). Trump may think he's playing to the gallery of his supporters but the steadfastness and sanity of the various layers of the judiciary could be his ultimate undoing. Before you get to the end, if you didn't know already the author is an eminent American, not a know-all Brit. Robert Reich:

There’s reason to feel a bit more secure about the strength of American democracy, notwithstanding Donald Trump’s escalating threats.

For one thing, a large bipartisan coalition in both chambers of Congress has beat back the House Maga Republicans’ attempt to shut down the government.

This was a major defeat for Trump, who had called a shutdown “the last chance to defund these political prosecutions against me and other patriots”.

Americans should also feel encouraged by the tenacity of judges and prosecutors in holding Trump accountable, notwithstanding his threats.

Ever since his first indictment, Trump has attacked with increasing ferocity the judges and prosecutors who have tried to hold him accountable – calling them “deranged”, “thugs”, “hacks”, “corrupt”, “biased”, “disgraceful”, “radical”, “unAmerican”, and worse.

To their credit, judges and prosecutors have not wavered.

They have set strict timetables for Trump’s criminal trials. They have refused Trump’s many motions and appeals. They have ruled against Trump in the civil lawsuits against him and meted out tough penalties.

Last Tuesday, Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling in a civil lawsuit brought by New York’s attorney general, found that Trump and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used to secure financing.

As punishment, Engoron ordered that some of Trump’s business licenses be rescinded.

Trump lashed out: “The widespread, radical attack against me, my family, and my supporters has now devolved to new, un-American depths, at the hands of a DERANGED New York State Judge, doing the bidding of a completely biased and corrupt ‘Prosecutor,’ Letitia James,” Trump wrote.

As Trump’s attacks on judges and prosecutors have worsened, prosecutors and judges have responded forcefully.

On Friday, the Colorado district judge Sarah B Wallace, overseeing the first significant lawsuit to bar Trump from the 2024 presidential ballot – on grounds that the 14th amendment explicitly bars from office anyone who has sworn an oath to uphold the constitution and has taken part in an insurrection – issued a protective order prohibiting parties in the case from making threatening or intimidating statements.

Judge Wallace said the order was necessary to protect the safety of those involved – including herself and her staff.

Meanwhile, Jack Smith, the special counsel overseeing the justice department’s prosecutions of Trump, has requested a gag order against Trump. Smith linked Trump’s ominous rhetoric to threats against prosecutors, judges and potential witnesses.

“The defendant continues these attacks on individuals precisely because he knows that in doing so, he is able to roil the public and marshal and prompt his supporters,” Smith said in the court filing.

One day after he posted “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING FOR YOU!” a woman called the chambers of the US district judge Tanya Chutkan, who has been assigned to the election fraud case against Trump, and said that if Trump is not reelected next year, “we are coming to kill you”. The woman was later charged with making the call.

The top prosecutors on the four criminal cases against Trump – two brought by the justice department and one each in Georgia and New York – now require round-the-clock protection.

Smith himself – whom Trump has described as “a thug” and “deranged” – has been a target of violent threats. His office is spending $8m to $10m on protective details for him, his family and senior staff members, according to officials.

Since its agents carried out the court-authorized search of Mar-a-Lago in August 2022, the FBI has seen the number of threats against its personnel and facilities surge more than 300%.

A Trump supporter wearing tactical gear and armed with an AR-15 tried to breach the FBI field office in Cincinnati. He failed, fled and later died in a shootout with law enforcement.

Trump is escalating his threats and provocations. Even if one or two of his followers act on them, the result would be tragic.

Merrick B Garland, the attorney general, recently told Congress that Trump’s demonization of judges and prosecutors threatened the rule of law. “Singling out individual career public servants who are just doing their jobs is dangerous – particularly at a time of increased threats to the safety of public servants and their families,” Garland said.

Garland then added: “We will not be intimidated. We will do our jobs free from outside influence. And we will not back down from defending our democracy.”

America owes a great debt of gratitude to the judges, prosecutors, grand jurors and prospective jurors who refuse to be intimidated by Trump’s threats, and who will not back down from defending our democracy.

While the mainstream media continues to treat Trump as a politician rather than a peril, normalizing his dangerous threats, the nation’s judges and prosecutors are protecting the rule of law.

They – along with Saturday’s bipartisan majority vote in Congress against Maga extremists – give some hope that the fever of Trumpism may be starting to break.

[Robert Reich, a former US secretary of labor, is a professor of public policy at the University of California, Berkeley]

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 06:36 PM

By the way, we can all comfort ourselves by calling him the orange one, fat, stupid, he wears diapers, he uses makeup, his hair is fake, his diet is terrible, he'll hate jail, etc. It's all just words. None of this is in any way serious enough criticism for his tens of millions of supporters to ditch him. No way. Another line of attack is needed. Court cases will go on for months and years, and he's fixed your Supreme Court, just in case he decides to take his appeals there. Fraud cases will get us nowhere. Charges of offences against the state may do. Maggie says it's about getting rid of him. Sure. But there's no serious discussion here of how we an actually do that, and the world is watching.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 05:43 PM

Well what does that mean. Never mind.

Fraud isn't going to get Donald Trump. I think we all know that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 11:04 AM

Finally (really!), read my lips: you are not getting rid of Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 11:02 AM

I've already moved on but you want the last word. See my previous post. My opinion of your politicians is hardly any different to yours. I'm talking about how your electorate is going to see things, not you and I. And your recent bullying tone appears to make you sound like you're treading on free speech. Please don't do that. We know you don't like Brits commenting on your politics and that you think we can't read the news properly. You've made that perfectly clear. I note that you haven't made even the slightest reference to the thoughtful piece by Timothy Garton Ash. Another Brit, eh, just one who happens to know a damn sight more about all this than you and me. Did you even bother to read it?   I'm moving on now. Please don't delete this then have the last word again, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 07:14 AM

I do know how to spell it (watch out when it comes to picking me up on spellings, by the way). I got my knickers in a twist over the brackets and symbols and concluded in the end that trying to put a smiley face inside brackets is not a good idea. Once I'd got that right, more or less, I moved on without doing the spelling correction. I knew it was wrong as soon as my post appeared. I'd usually send another post to correct an error like that, but my name's already popped up too many times in this thread's recent post list (who's going to disagree?), so I refrained on this occasion. Oh, and it doesn't help that I'm currently in a tangle with my optometrist with regard to my reading glasses prescription. I'll publish the address for sympathy cards to be sent to later.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 07:10 PM

By the way, when I say that Kamala is anonymous, I'm not saying that she's ineffective or useless or that she isn't doing a good job. Not a bit of it. But we are talking here about not having Trump as your next president. As it seems that your justice system will be incapable of dealing with him, we need really good people to be upfront and putting the moral case. I look forward to seeing more of her. At the moment, we foreigners don't actually know who she is.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 07:01 PM

Kamala Harris is simply anonymous, and from this end, very disappointing.

Trouble is, Maggie, while we all know here that Afghanistan was a Trump thing, the ignominious and chaotic withdrawal happened on Biden's watch. Suppose Trump makes a big thing of that in the next campaign. How many of his tens of millions of fans would blame him and not Biden? You and I are in a tiny minority when it comes to that digging and delving that ends up with our putting the ball into Trump's court in that regard. Let's not live in a bubble. Ultimately, it's what your electorate decides, not what you and I can live in hope with. By the way, when you say "there you go again," you are parroting the words of Reagan vs Jimmy Carter. I'm amazed that you'd lay yourself open to be tarred with that particular brush...

Over here we have news sources as good or better than yours, and we cognescenti (:-)) can dig and delve. I don't look at questionable sources and I try really hard to not suffer from confirmation bias. I'm sure you're the same, but please stop thinking that only yanks can get a grip on US issues. Seventy-odd million of you haven't yet managed it, have they?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 03:51 PM

So why haven't they been looking for the last three years? Has no-one got the vision to see that a candidate who looks frail now and who will be 86 at the end of a second term, five long years from now, could well be a liability in an election in over a year's time? I mean, what if he dies or gets really sick, fer chrissake? The age difference between them isn't too far short of a presidential term in length. You can't pretend that that doesn't matter. Listen, I like Biden, I think he's done well and the world feels safer with him at the helm. But there has to be someone else in the frame, at least to fall back on even if they don't replace him. Where is that person? They are neck and neck in the polls now, but trip-ups will wound Biden far more than they will Trump. There's his son and there's his Afghanistan cock-up for starters. Populism and seventy-odd million ignorant people have been set in place to make Trump ever stronger at every trip-up. He seems almost impregnable at times.

Read the piece by Timothy Garton Ash. He's a big Biden supporter, as am I, he's worried, and he's far more savvy in these matters than I am. I don't think you'll find anything "jaundiced" in his piece, whether you agree with him or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 11:26 AM

Jaundiced things my backside, Maggie. I've expressed my opinion, right or wrong, in civil tones. You've revealed multiple times here that you think that Brits can't have valid opinions on US politics. Now that's what I could call jaundiced.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 08:42 AM

Well that's a good message but this is politics, and populism is far from being dead in your country. You may be right about Trump's nappies and woven hair (he'll deny the nappies, of course) but we know that Bad Things about Trump tend, paradoxically, to strengthen him. Try to exploit them at your peril. Biden has been a good president but there are plenty of supposed weaknesses to exploit. It going to be an interesting few months, and you won't be able to rely on Biden's integrity alone to get him through. A horrid, populist right-winger ousted a mild man of integrity in 1980. Let's hope we are not going to have to say 'twas ever thus.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 23 - 06:32 PM

Well they might well be similar in age, but fer chrissake don't deny that one looks a damn sight older and more rickety than the other. This does matter. I wish Joe Biden well, but rest assured that millions of us outsiders look at him and wonder how many more times he'll stumble, fall over, be hesitant, etc., and whether Trump will be honourable enough to cut him some slack in the next fourteen months. I think you know the answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 23 - 11:53 AM

A dose of realism in today's Guardian:

Unless Joe Biden stands aside, the world must prepare for President Trump 2.0
Timothy Garton Ash

"The president has had a good run. But the Democrats must choose a younger candidate if Donald Trump is to be kept out of the White House."

In a nutshell, he's saying that Biden is showing his age. He'll be 86 at the end of a second term. In the polls he and Trump are neck and neck and it will take very little to swing the odds in Trump's favour. Biden has done well, but he must now stand aside and let a younger candidate challenge Trump.

That's Garton Ash. This is me: this planet (not just your country) can't afford another Trump term. First, you may or may not be able to stop his candidacy. After nearly three years you still don't seem to know and the sleepwalk continues. Second, old man Biden has a long way to go before November next year and there is too much to go wrong. Where's that younger candidate?

Anyway, I know some of you yanks think that no-one outside the US can possibly know what's going on, but read the piece anyway. It's a good read.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 07:27 PM

Going back to the substantive, here's a Brit view of recent Republican shenanigans from the Guardian:

Donald Trump stayed away from Wednesday’s Republican candidates’ debate in Milwaukee. Yet he remained the evening’s dominant presence. The former president’s poll lead among Republican supporters for the 2024 US presidential contest is so strong that he could afford to do this. His absence deliberately belittled both the televised event, as he simultaneously gave an imperiously misleading social media interview to Tucker Carlson, and his eight challengers, who were left vying to impress in a fantasy “What if?” contest over the choice for a party not in fact dominated by Mr Trump.

Absence also allowed Mr Trump, on the eve of his latest court appearance in Atlanta and now facing 91 felony counts in four separate criminal cases, to avoid offering himself as a target to his eight rivals. Not that he need have worried about that. Most of them went out of their way all evening to pay him repeated homage. No one did this more shamelessly than the Ohio entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy, who told the audience both that Mr Trump was the best Republican president of the 21st century and that, if elected, Mr Ramaswamy would instantly pardon him for whatever he may have been convicted of in the meantime.

By identifying deliberately with Mr Trump’s outsider status, Mr Ramaswamy did two things. He made a bid to be Mr Trump’s running-mate next year and he also separated himself from the platform’s professional politicians. These seven all see themselves, with varying degrees of credibility, as the alternative candidate to Mr Trump. Their shared problem is that the party shows little sign of being interested in such a person. Certainly not in the former vice-president Mike Pence, whose certification of Joe Biden’s victory in January 2021 was supported by most of his fellow candidates but remains heretical to Trump supporters. And probably not in the Florida governor Ron DeSantis either, who entered the debate as the nominal chief rival to Mr Trump but who once again did relatively little to cement that claim.

Maybe you yanks don't see it in quite the same way, or maybe (as has been expressed here more than once) you think that we Brits don't get it because we don't live over there (and presumably don't get our info from Fox News). Thing is, we see Trump as a world issue, not just a US domestic issue, and we're worried.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 04:24 PM

I wonder if he’s trying to intimidate the judge, Dave? He’s a bully by nature, perhaps he thinks he can bully the judge into going easy on him?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 07:41 AM

Dare I say it? Yeah, course I dare - 1,000! :-)