BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 03:55 AM

Q.E.D.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 06:22 AM

What is a triddlebut, never heard of such.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 06:57 AM

Quasi-philosophical questions:

Can you be a leftie if:

you live in a half-million quid house, mortgage paid up?

you would rather have Starmer than Corbyn?

you've never borrowed money to buy a car, yet paid eighteen grand for your last one, and you and the missus have a car each?

you have so much saved up that you juggle your money around to avoid paying tax on the interest?

you never have overdraft or credit card debt?

you can still afford to put your heating on?

you once spent an hour looking up the inheritance tax rules?

you vote tactically for the LibDems?

you have a pretty good works pension on top of your old age pension?

you support the monarchy?

you support Manchester Citeh?

you've ever paid more than six quid for a bottle of wine?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 01:01 PM

Part of the OED definition is "a person who advocates or practises socialism"

So, yes!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 03:29 PM

I heartily agree but I'm not telling which of those apply to me, just in case anyone thinks there was something autobiographical in that post!

Next question: you can't sing the blues if...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 10:48 PM

...you support Liverpool?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 04:27 AM

Well now, Dave, you've provoked me into a sidetrack. I think it's interesting to contemplate that some of the greatest post-war football managers have been socialists. Busby, Cloughie, Fergie, Shankly (aka God) and Klopp, all proud and self-declared lefties. Admittedly, with all the money sloshing around in football, especially in recent decades, there was the sniff of champagne socialism around some of them, though Shanks never got posher than his three-bed semi. I think that their successes in large part can be put down to their philosophy of all for one, one for all, and that no player is more special than any other in the team, a philosophy shared by all the above. David Beckham could tell you that...

A mixed picture, of course, and not all great teams by any means have been managed by lefties. But a significant (and surprising?) number have. So yes, you may not be be able to sing the blues as a Liverpool fan without showing further credentials, but you can definitely be a leftie!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 05:01 AM

I wonder if Bonzo’s a Man. Citeh fan? He’s daft enough… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 05:49 AM

Well I could easily put him off by telling him that Pep Guardiola also has socialist credentials and is a vocal Catalan separatist...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: peteglasgow
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 03:09 PM

well there's Pep, johann cruyff, xavi/iniesta puyol etc, the catalans and the whole barcelona thing has socialist roots- and much of the greatest football in recent years. and was it paul breitner the german full back who took it to a higher level, as i dimly and probably erroneously recall

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 04:40 AM

I see Zahawi is still there then.

In other news, Rod the Mod has admitted voting Tory but he now admits that this lot are crap. I admit to enjoying his music. Particularly some of the more recent stuff. Does that make me a bad person? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 04:53 AM

”Rod the Mod has admitted voting Tory”

I’d expect nothing else from that washed-up Chav.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 05:10 AM

I saw that too. Of course, a leopard changing its spots leftward (slightly, I suspect) has got to be a good thing, especially one in the public eye. But Rod's view of politics, as reported in that article, is simplistic. Also, I'm not sure that offering to pay for private medical treatment for just a few people is any sort of answer, though anything that shines the light on the shite that this government has dropped on the NHS can't be bad. Simplistic or not, Rod's vote counts for exactly the same as the vote of any professor of politics. We need much better political education in our schools. Of course, the kneejerk reaction to that from the right wing is that we're all subversive reds under the bed (I know that from first-hand experience in the 70s). Whenever working-class people vote Tory, they are doing it out of an ignorance that the right has every interest in maintaining.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 05:21 AM

Zahawi is still there because the can has been kicked down the road - "We have to wait for the outcome of the independent [sure...] enquiry, blah..." A touch of "waiting for Sue Grey" all over again. It won't work this time. Silly Rishi has yet to see how toxic it is keeping him on board. On top of what's already happened, there's the report of £30 million in unsecured loans to his wife's business... That one hasn't caught fire yet....

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 05:45 AM

Beg pardon for misspelling your surname, Sue Gray!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 06:12 AM

What is your objection to the loans?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 08:05 AM

For Bonzo's benefit, from yesterdays Guardian. I did not say I objected, Bonzo. But in light of his murky tax affairs and the fact that he's been the Chancellor, I think more clarity would be welcome.

Nadhim Zahawi, the beleaguered former chancellor and current chair of the Conservative party, is under pressure to reveal the source of about £30m of unsecured loans made to his wife’s UK property company.

The loans were used to finance parts of a large UK property portfolio, reported last year as worth about £100m, and were declared in company accounts which span a period from 2017 to 2021 but give no information about who the lenders are.

The calls for greater transparency are the latest request for the former chancellor to explain how his family’s fortune has been managed, after he became embroiled in a mounting controversy over his tax affairs that prompted the government to launch an ethics investigation.

Accounts show just under £30m has been provided as unsecured loans to a company called Zahawi & Zahawi, which has paid £60m for a property portfolio that includes commercial and retail premises in London, Birmingham, Brighton and Walton-on-Thames in Surrey.

Zahawi & Zahawi was formed in 2010 when it was owned jointly by the MP and his wife, Lana Saib, before he transferred his 50% shareholding to her when he became a junior minister in January 2018.

Zahawi, whose tax affairs have been referred to the independent adviser on ministerial standards, said he was confident he had acted properly throughout, adding: “In order to ensure the independence of this process, you will understand that it would be inappropriate to discuss this issue any further, as I continue my duties as chairman of the Conservative and Unionist party.”

Zahawi is battling to save his political career after he admitted reaching a tax settlement with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) following an “error” over capital gains from the sale of shares in YouGov.

The former chancellor has faced scrutiny on a tranche of shares in YouGov, the polling company he co-founded, which were held by a Gibraltar company, Balshore Investments, and sold for about £27m between 2006 and 2018. It was estimated by the thinktank Tax Policy Associates he may have avoided £3.7m in capital gains tax on the sale of these shares.

Dan Neidle, a tax lawyer and founder of Tax Policy Associates whose work initially raised awareness of the Zahawi family finances, said: “The fact that an MP’s family can receive £30m of unsecured loans I find incredible. Those loans could be from Elvis for all we know. But it is a fact that a person or persons unknown has loaned the Zahawi family £30m and we don’t get to know who.”

Prem Sikka, a Labour member of the House of Lords and an emeritus professor of accounting at the University of Essex and the University of Sheffield, added: “There has been no explanation in the accounts of who provided these loans. Given the concern over Mr Zahawi’s tax affairs we now need further clarity. The ethics adviser should be looking at these matters too.”

The loans in question were not secured against any assets, according to the accounts. Most property loans are secured against the building itself, and the name of the lender is often declared in the Land Registry or at the UK corporate registry, known as Companies House.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 12:58 PM

Bet the Daily Heil hasn’t got that on its front page…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 01:25 PM

What obligation to disclose source of the loans?

The accounts show what is required of a private company, however a reader must assume that the company has not been affected by Covid, and no Covid Grants have been claimed.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 05:14 PM

I didn't say there was an obligation. I sad that clarity would be welcome. My friendly advice to Nadhim would be that continued absence of clarity regarding his affairs will hurt not just him but Rishi too. Why would I worry about the Tories hurting themselves? Carry on, lads!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 06:25 PM

Nobody discloses any more in small company filleted accounts than required FRS 102 1A to show "a true and fair view".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 06:39 PM

Well that tells us. Clear as bloody mud. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 03:22 AM

When you mention leopards, Steve, should it not have been changing his leopard skin pants? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 04:29 AM

What is your objection to the loans?

My objection to the loans is that the source of them is hidden. If, for example, what had happened is one of his UK companies bought a whole lot of services from the Cayman Islands, and so avoided tax because it made no profit, then loaned the money back to him as an unsecured loan, that would be a clear case of tax evasion and fraudulent. If it came from a Russian oligarch it would problematic for other reasons. That it was unsecured raises the question whether the lender actually wanted something other than money in return.

So the problem is not the loan, but the secrecy around them and in particular the fact they were unsecured.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 04:50 AM

I should add, by the way, that the fact a company is not obliged to release information is a very poor excuse for letting someone who wanted to play the system get away with fraud. I am not accusing anyone, naturally, just saying how thin that defence is.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 06:34 AM

Well it is what it is, so put up or shut up!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 06:45 AM

The whole point, Bonzo, is that it may not be what it appears to be, and what it really is may just be a tad shady. We're not talking here about spivs selling stuff off the back of a lorry. We're talking about people who are running the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 06:58 AM

Well, unlike the Lefty Triddlebuts, Bonzo ‘knows his place’ where his betters are concerned, he assures himself of their approval by gazing askance, doffing his cap, and tugging his forelock in their presence, and he has the good manners to thank them after he’s lifted his shirt for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 07:28 AM

"The whole point, Bonzo, is that it may not be what it appears to be, and what it really is may just be a tad shady."

I suggest that you write to the company and complain.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 08:40 AM

Nah. I think I'll just wait for Nadhim to be sacked (a cert) and for the feckless Tories to implode (another cert).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 11:28 AM

”Nah. I think I'll just wait for……the feckless Tories to implode.”

Bring it on - it’s high time that parcel of greedy, tax-dodging rogues got their just desserts before they totally bankrupt the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 12:26 PM

Oh, I forgot ‘lying’ - ‘that parcel of greedy, tax-dodging, LYING rogues…”.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 04:05 AM

Steve’s first prediction has come true - Zahawi’s got the boot! Not before time! Now for the second prediction - everything crossed!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 04:07 AM

Yeah a few days later than I expected but he has gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 04:57 AM

Yes, he has gone, and rightly so.

Consequently, I expect the media and others will quietly forget to explore that mysterious £30m unsecured loan. They should not, but I expect they will.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 05:57 AM

There is absolutely no way that you will find out the source of that loan - no obligation to disclose in small company acccounts.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 06:09 AM

A loan from the company to a director or family member of a director is a different matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 06:18 AM

Are our tory trolls enjoying their humble pie for breakfast? Seem that Zahawi not carelessly failed to declare millions stashed away on offshore accounts, but also carelessly failed to disclose that he was under investigation by HMRC when he was appointed Chancellor of the Exchequer and Party Chairman. This shows the extent of total contempt that the self-entitled **** have towards those of us they consider their inferiors.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 06:20 AM

Nevertheless, the secrecy surrounding the loan, together with Zahawi’s failed attempt to defraud HMRC of £5m in unpaid tax, demonstrates that he is a very, very shady character indeed.

Mrs Backwoodsperson habitually refers to Zahawi as ‘The Eunuch of Stamboul’. Easy to see why…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 06:37 AM

of Stamboul was Constantinople
Now it's of Stamboul not Constantinople!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 06:39 AM

Humble pie???? No I had some excellent thick bacon - a Jewish Vegan's delight!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: peteglasgow
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 01:25 PM

thick bacon? is that like gammon?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 01:26 PM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 02:38 PM

LOL! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 03:24 PM

I mean thickly cut bacon, Morrison's best!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 06:22 PM

Yeah, don't confuse the bacon with the gammon.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: peteglasgow
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 06:42 PM

so, bozo, you choose your diet by the amount of offence it may give to decent people. you are one sick eejit. do you really imagine anyone cares? do you talk about your food related attacks on minorities outwith these pages? do you boast about your gluttony just to annoy foodbank users?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 23 - 07:15 PM

And anyway, you can't make a proper bacon butty with thick-cut bacon. Bloody Croydonista southerner...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 01:55 AM

Usual drivel from peteglasgow

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 02:09 AM

A-a-and…400!