BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 23 - 03:41 AM

Those things haven't gone, SPB, just changed

Workhouses=zero hours contracts
Bad healthcare=privatisation
Slavery=abuse of immigrants
Child labour=see slavery
European facsism=see Tory party
Berlin wall=Brexit
Gallows=Rwanda

Etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 12:45 PM

Are you suggesting that we should never attempt to make changes? Do you miss workhouses people dying of treatable conditions because they couldn't afford healthcare, slavery, child labour, European fascism, the Berlin Wall, people sent to the gallows for petty crimes, slums etc ec?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 07:34 AM

Doing 'something about it" is not important

Doing "something about it THAT WILL POSSIBLY WORK".is a different matter

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 05:30 AM

Better facilities for young people, better policing, striving for greater equality, educashun (well if you can misuse "alternately" I can misspell "education"!)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 04:54 AM

Tut-tut Nigel! Bad language being used by the pompous, self-righteous nit-picker who had the temerity to excoriate me for doing exactly the same thing!

Wot a f***ing hypocritical plonker!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 09:23 PM

Steve:
Well number one, spot the shitmakers. Number two, make sure you've got the right culprits. Number three, prove it. Number four, force the jackets on them. Number five, make them do what you want, arbitrarily and without legal backing. Shades of Dixon of Dock Green feeling the villain's collar and the villain meekly saying, OK, it's a fair cop, guv. I've just spotted a cuckoo in the clouds. Next stop, bunches of vigilantes. Maybe a posse or two.

Alternately, assume that you can do F*** all about it, and allow it to continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 01:39 PM

Sorry, not Watson. He did join the shadow cabinet but he never missed an opportunity to brief against Jeremy. I did have plenty of others to choose from, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 01:35 PM

My fat finger hit the send button prematurely when I posted this before, plus I got my italics in a mess. Please ignore and consider this version instead.

Ahem:


This is a below-the-line comment on a Guardian opinion piece written by Andy Beckett (the part in bold is a quote from Beckett's article):

'A leader who effectively expelled his predecessor from Labour in parliament despite Corbyn’s 40 years of dedication to his constituency and 10 consecutive large local majorities.’

To say this is a mistake doesn’t do justice to the enormity of the damage this will cause party and country.

What the country needs, above all else, is unity - unity of purpose and unity of vision.

It’s bad enough that Keir didn’t support Jeremy through the expensive [extensive??] character assassination deployed against him by the right wing press.

Jeremy Corbyn is not an antisemite.

To deny him the chance to stand for Labour furthers this outrageous injustice yet more and ostracises swathes of loyal supporters, many of them the abandoned young who found a natural home under Jeremy’s leadership. These are neither ‘extreme’ nor the ‘loony left’ as the tabloids would also have us believe; they are, like our founder (after whom Keir has the honour to be named) simply socialists and socialism should be our raison d’etre - our vision, not the unmentionable word it has become under Keir’s leadership.

The right wing of the Labour Party (a relative term) threw Jeremy under a bus by refusing en masse to join his shadow cabinet: arguably, they thereby threw the country under a bus by helping to condemn Labour to inevitable election defeats. Your Yvette, your Nandy, your Watson & co., assisted ably by that horrid cabal led by John Mann and the highly disreputable Margaret Hodge with their dishonest and confected antisemitism campaign, did more to ensure that than the Tories and the Mail could ever do. Of course, that's exactly what they wanted. No price was too high to pay for getting the lefties out and refashioning the party in their own expedient image. What was once a proud, left-wing party that rebuilt this country after the war in the face of Tory opposition is now a party in which, if you say that you're a socialist, you're in danger of being booted out.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 12:52 PM

I was extremely fortunate to have Jeremy Corbyn as my MP for almost thirty years. It would be extremely hard to find a more decent person and one more honest and committed to improving the lives of his constituents. Starmer's not a true socialist and his desire to punish Jeremy Corbyn is utterly reprehensible.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 12:36 PM

My mistake. I thought he had been expelled but it seems not yet. If he stands as an Independent candidate in the election he will be expelled.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 12:25 PM

”I was not surprised by the decision to not let Corbyn stand.”

I’m not surprised by the decision either, but I regard it as a big mistake. In a Party which is supposed to be a paragon of democratic virtue, it seems to me that MPs of widely-differing views is a benefit, not a disadvantage. If for no other reason than that JC is an excellent constituency MP, he should be eligible to stand for re-election.

”I assume that his expulsion from the party still stands.”

Has he been expelled from the Party? My understanding is that, whilst he lost the Party Whip and has been barred from standing for re-election, he is still a Party member, but I could be wrong on that. Please correct me if I’ve got that round my neck!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 11:07 AM

I liked this below-the-line comment on the same piece:

"Just surprised go see comments actually open on this, no articles about the Corbyn expulsion have been open to comment for days, not even Steve Bells excellent cartoon a few days ago."

It amuses me to see what The Guardian allows readers to comment on.

I was not surprised by the decision to not let Corbyn stand. I assume that his expulsion from the party still stands.

I am more surprised at the involvement of the central party in the selection of candidates to stand in elections. Telling 19 Leicester councillors that they could not stand again in the forthcoming local election, does seem a little strange. As far as I am aware, those 19 had not been expelled from the party before they were told they could not stand as a Labour candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 06:26 AM

'Course, that's a day out of date now! Never mind. We had the uselessly unconvincing Rachel Reeves to "entertain" us this morning. Woe are we.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 23 - 05:48 AM

And we had Dominic Raab this morning, rattling on about the housing of "illegal immigrants" (talk about putting everyone in the same box, "illegal" or not...) in hotels as an "abuse of taxpayers' money." The interviewer, Justin Webb, tried to pin him down about whether he had a barge, but that piece of racism completely bypassed him. This is the same Dominic Raab who wasted a million pounds of taxpayers' money in a nine-month period (when he was foreign secretary) chartering private flights to take him all over the world when he could have used scheduled flights. Lovely man, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Mar 23 - 04:47 AM

Glasgow cruise ship contract ends

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Mar 23 - 04:45 AM

Mooring during covid is a bit different. There were lots moored around Weymouth, for example. But they were moored as effectively 'empty' ships, not 'full and working' ones. I gather some were also docked in Glasgow and Edinburgh to host some Ukrainians, so it is not impossible, of course, but the problems and costs should not be underestimated.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 29 Mar 23 - 04:21 AM

Cruise vessels were moored up during the covid period. Some moored here in Dover for short periods. They would not be able to moor in working harbours now of course.

Here’s what's happened to the cruise ships anchored in the Firth of Forth

Cruising is Out, But Enthusiasts Can Still Visit Laid-Up Cruise Ships

There will still be costs as they cannot be avoided no matter how the situation is dealt with.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Mar 23 - 03:47 AM

Braverman's constituency, Fareham, is by the sea, and all the costs can be met by Fareham's council tax payers.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Mar 23 - 03:14 AM

So the latest wheeze being talked about is putting asylum seekers on cruise ships.   

To me, this sounds like an idea of the top of someones head that will face huge problems if/when it is implemented. It is possible, of course, but let's think about a few problems.

1. Where is it moored?
If it is in a dock, that ties up facilities that would normally have a different purpose. You don't want it in a place where cruise ships are active, because it reduces capacity. The same applies to industrial ports. Also, no town is going to be particularly happy with this permanently added to their coastline.

ON the other hand, if it is moored off shore, how you get people and from to it is problematical. How is it staffed, for example? It will need fuel for electricity and water purification; how do you restock that? Similarly food and waste management. Then, if it is simply moored a little way from the coast, it will be as unwelcome for the townsfolk as if it is physically docked, but if it far enough out to be out of sight, you amplify all the supply problems.

2. How much does it cost?
If it is moored off shore, the fuel costs to produce pure water will be many times the cost of using a normal water supply.Similarly getting all other supplies to the ship will be multiples of the cost incurred by mooring on-shore. Equally, the logistics of getting asylum seekers on board and off more or less constantly will not be trivial.

Then cruise ships are designed to be economically efficient when they are full. No cruise ship with a capacity of 5000 will run at all effectively if there are only 500 'guests'.   That means when you first start operating you need to fill the ship immediately and then you have little or no capacity to add more.


3. How is it staffed?
Again, this is not too much of a problem if the ship is docked, but a huge logistical problem if it is not. I would expect you would need a staffing model similar to working on an oil rig.

4. How is it maintained?
The ship will need to meet and maintain all the regulations for a ship. For example, the evacuation procedures will need to be maintained and practiced regularly. Then the physical structures must remain seaworthy. All more costs.


So, in practice, I think the most viable option is to have the ship permanently docked.   But, as I say, that ties up facilities, and that will have a substantial cost as well, both financially and politically.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 11:00 AM

Like I said, not easy to put into practice.

It can also be said that those who live in towns and those who live in the country, have different experiences when it comes to anti social behaviour. They both might well prefer an alternative punishment instead of prison though.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 10:50 AM

Well number one, spot the shitmakers. Number two, make sure you've got the right culprits. Number three, prove it. Number four, force the jackets on them. Number five, make them do what you want, arbitrarily and without legal backing. Shades of Dixon of Dock Green feeling the villain's collar and the villain meekly saying, OK, it's a fair cop, guv. I've just spotted a cuckoo in the clouds. Next stop, bunches of vigilantes. Maybe a posse or two.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 10:39 AM

The idea of people being made to clear up the shit they have caused appeals to a lot of people, both those who vote tory and those who vote labour. Not so easy to put into practice though.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 10:19 AM

This idea of instant punishment reminds me of Blai's idea of marching offenders to the cashpoint. Alistair Campbell says be tried to dissuade Blair from saying that because it was unworkable, but these sorts of ideas are appealing to people who don't stop and think "What are the problems with that?"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 09:13 AM

We could always make shorter knives. Sorry, I'm in super-cynical mode today. Aims may be laudable but they're still aims. Ah, what's this, a newsflash. I see we've got Humza. Unban everything again!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 08:16 AM

"Let's face it: this is a pre-election Tory tough-on-Laura-Norder stunt, and Labour have to go along with it, led by the nose, in order to not look weak."

I thought Labour were already leading on it, promising to halve knife crime incidents, as well as reduce crimes against women. Promise? Not sure how that will work out. They are laudable aims though.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 07:44 AM

Well I've seen plenty of rubbish fly-tipped but I've never seen anyone fly-tipping it. If I wanted to fly-tip I'd make bloody sure no-one was watching first, a bit like those people who let their dogs shit on the pavement (Now stopping that WOULD be something useful!). Let's face it: this is a pre-election Tory tough-on-Laura-Norder stunt, and Labour have to go along with it, led by the nose, in order to not look weak. A bit like stop-the-boats. Isn't politics fun. Anyway, Kate Forbes for SNP leader! Ban everything! March those kids to the Wee Free! That'll learn 'em to not be antisocial!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 07:29 AM

Our Norfolk roads are a disgrace, littered with loads of chucked-away rubbish. People just seem to throw their cans, take-away bags etc from their car windows as they drive along. Also, we've noticed a lot of fly-tipping (huge plastic bags of rubbish left in lay-bys). In the past, a van used to collect all this up (two council employees) and take it off to the tip, but we haven't seen them around in ages.
I like Dishy Rishy's statement about catching the messy litterers and tidying up the country, but I can't see it coming about. The Police are now very thin on the ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 06:18 AM

So apart from banning laughing gas they're going to force shouty teens to pick up litter in hi-viz jackets and make graffiti artists clean it off again. I think they should bring back the birch, bring back conscription, bring back the stocks and bring back ducking stools. Or save all that bother and just cut off their goolies.

By the way, I've seen acres of graffiti in my time but I've never actually seen anyone doing it. Never mind. I'm sure that all those extra Tory cops will be out and about 24/7 with their high-powered bins. And when they're not actually graffiti-spotting they'll be arbitrarily deciding what's antisocial and what isn't. Wheee!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 04:04 AM

Aye, Rain Dog, that laugyhing one is a gas :-)

More seriously, 3 people I know very well have been forced out of the Labour Party by the infighting over local council candidates. Sadly, when the party should be doing all it can to unseat the shower that are destroying the NHS, they seem more concerned with ensuring all its representatives adhere to Starmer's centrist (read right wing) line :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 03:18 AM

A Labour national executive committee (NEC) tells 19 sitting Leicester councillors that they cannot stand as Labour candidates in tbe forthcoming council elections.

The tories announce plans to ban laughing.

What is this country coming to?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 02:24 PM

So if Starmer had published his figures earlier, would that have prompted Sunak to do the same?

Of course you and I live in a country where tax matters are a private concern. We have just seen 2 rich people declare how much tax they have paid. Not sure what the vast majority of the country feel about that.

Have Labour announced any plans to change CGT? I am not aware of any such plans.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 02:10 PM

No, he did it in reaction to Fishi releasing his, because his numbers looked ten times better than Fishi's and because most of his tax came from what he was paid for going to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 01:08 PM

Typical government(of whichever party) behaviour when it comes to burying 'bad' news.

Do you think Starmer waited for the same reason?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 23 - 07:03 PM

And call me Mr Cynical, but Fishy Rishi published his tax returns at the exact same time that Boris walked to the stand. What was all that about burying bad news...?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Mar 23 - 06:25 PM

I was supposed to be out all afternoon but the event was cancelled, so I got to watch the entertainment as well.

When he was clearly losing his temper with the first set of questions I thought the whole thing was going to erupt, but after that he managed to keep himself more or less under control.   But it was very striking how the questioners and the chair kept telling him to answer the question and stop waffling, which I am sure he did not like at all.   A few very sharp questions that he had especial difficulty with, such as whether every manager in the country was permitted to have leaving drinks for their staff, which he fumbled for what seemed quite a while before essentially saying 'yes'.

A particular moment of amusement occurred right at the end when having argued all along he could rely on the advice he was given, it was put to him that Downing Street was so big and complex with so many people that no one could have known that, and he heartily agreed, insisting it was a very important point. Not noticing, apparently, that it contradicted almost all his testimony.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 23 - 02:14 PM

Well that was three hours of my life I'll never get back...

I nearly threw something at the telly when he said that loads of people up and down the country had probably also not been complying perfectly with social distancing rules. Well people were forced to see their loved ones die alone as he was raising glasses with his cronies. I couldn't visit my profoundly deaf mum in her room at her home for the last seven months of her life, having to settle for once a fortnight ten feet apart with a perspex screen between us. Mrs Steve and I complied with every rule to the letter, including the mask rule, despite my contempt for it. The bastard.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 02:47 PM

Nigel, I've often bitterly criticised New Labour for widening the gap between rich and poor, for failing to correct the Tory lack of regulation of the banks and for supporting Bush in the invasion of Iraq. I'm more than happy to bitterly criticise New Labour for cheerfully continuing the Tory Ofsted regime that has done so much to ruin teaching in this country. Fair enough?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 02:41 PM

I did not intentionally or recklessly use the word knowingly instead of intentionally:-D

(Yes, Nigel, that is preempting you)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 02:21 PM

I can, at long last, thank Boris Johnson for something. If his defence is accepted it sets the precedent for many others

I did not knowingly or recklessly exceed the speed limit.

I did not knowingly or recklessly take the bottle of 21 year old malt from Tescos without paying

I did not knowingly or recklessly kick my local Tory MP in the nuts...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 02:09 PM

I have just seen the relevant bit of the Guardian. Not surprisingly, it is edited down from what I said, and it does give the impression that barn dances and ballroom are directly affected by spaces for clubbing going, as if during the day a ceilidh band takes over the mosh pit, but never mind!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 02:07 PM

ALL The comments, Nigel? Who else has commented on OFSTED but Steve? Also, as far as I know, the current body began in 1992 so there has been 18 years of Tories and 13 years of Labour since. When does 2 wrongs make a right anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 02:03 PM

Governments of what ever party are forever tinkering with education policy. They can never agree on what counts as a 'good' education. They can only agree that the policy at the time is not working, especially if it is a policy of another party.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 02:00 PM

I emailed it, Rain Dog

These days, the post is such that it could be very "out of date" by the time it gets there.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 01:56 PM

Already online DMcG.

Did you post a letter or email it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 01:07 PM

So for all the comments we get about 'the Tories have been in power for 13 years, why haven't they done anything'
Since the start of OFSTED the Labour Party had a 13 year period in government . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 01:07 PM

Not Brexit related, not political, unless you subscribe to the idea the personal is political. However:

I have just had an email notifying me a letter I sent to The Guardian is to be published online tonight and in the print edition tomorrow.

It was in response to a lament that a lot of the clubbing scene is closing down, and it talked about how dance is a fundamental part of human socialising going back forever.   I was pointing out that for other forms of dance there are very few commercial places you can dance. Most of them are village or church halls.

As it happens, a dance I was supposed to go tomorrow isn't taking place as the number of attendees was too low :(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 10:18 AM

Pressure mounts on Ofsted amid outcry after death of headteacher
"Ruth Perry’s death a ‘direct result of pressure’ from report by England’s education watchdog, says family" [Guardian]

Ofsted started as a Tory confection for judging schools. Teams of "inspectors," many of whom had never been in a classroom and/or who had been given just a couple of days' training, descended at short notice on schools to interrogate staff and children, "observe" lessons, look at box-ticking test and exam results (taking no account whatsoever of the social background of the school) and produce a report that was highly-judgemental and completely unsupportive. Anyone could read the reports but most people would rely on headline single-word summaries such as "satisfactory" or "inadequate." The Ofsted teams neither gave any support to teachers nor were in any way qualified to do so. Ofsted has evolved in in its methods and policies since those beginnings but remains highly arbitrary and judgemental.

A proper inspection regime would identify weaknesses and have teams of experienced and supportive educationists to help schools to improve. When I worked in London, and, to begin with, in Devon, we had teams of experienced, successful senior teachers, trained in specific subject areas, who would come into schools, see what we were up to and show us how to do it better. It wasn't perfect and there wasn't enough of it but it was at least the basis of what a good supporting inspectorate should be.

Instead of that we have teams of highly-paid people whose only aim is to put the screws on teachers. The upshot is headteachers, worried about their reputation, putting more and more pressure on their classroom teachers, who are compelled to use up tons of energy to produce mountains of paperwork and spend hours every night and at weekends close-marking work and producing highly-detailed lesson plans and worksheets, following a content-stuffed curriculum which goes a long way towards turning both the teachers and the pupils into automatons. No wonder the best teachers leave in droves and that mental ill-health is rife. I can only hope that this latest tragic case will be a turning point. Ofsted is not fit for purpose, never has been, has been found not to be so more than once and needs to be scrapped.

End of rant by bloke who has both experienced Ofsted and who knows several inspectors who know that they will always get a piece of my mind, as much as I love them dearly!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 09:38 AM

They'd probably tell you how great things are now because we've got hundreds of food banks. We never had THAT under Labour!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 08:43 AM

I have acquaintances, including members of my wife’s family, who are still telling me that ‘Boris is a great guy who did a great job’. When I question that opinion, the answer I almost always get is, “Ah but, think how much worse things would be if Labour had got in”.

I really do doubt some people’s sanity, and I really, really do despair.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 08:35 AM

Concerning Johnson defending himself by saying that he only ever acted in good faith over Partygate, this comment appeared below-the-line in the Guardian:

"This farce is angering me no end. He lied. We know it, he knows it everyone knows it. His defence that he didnt know what he was doing is far too ridiculous to even take seriously. If this were a trial the jury would find him guilty in 5 mins tops. Instead we have to endure this protracted nonsense. All the while the country is barely being governed. Farce."

Alleluja. And this farce is being conducted at public expense, by a panel that has a majority of Tories on it.

(Giving credit where it's due, that post was responded to appropriately by one Tattie_Bogle!)