BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 04:58 PM

Prove it, show me a copy of his tax return. You know nothing until you have seen that, which you would not understand anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 04:45 PM

He tried to cheat, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 02:23 PM

Your arse must be very sore indeed, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 02:03 PM

The tax legislation provides the right to appeal an assessment, up to the House Of Lords if necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 01:40 PM

He knew he owed tax and lots of it. He tried to get away with it. He's a cabinet minister. We should hold these people to the highest standards of honesty and integrity. He fails the test, clearly not in your eyes, but objectively....

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Jan 23 - 12:17 PM

"Yeah, seven-figure tax-dodging by all accounts."

It's not unreasonable to argue your case with HMRC, who are at best draconian, and do not always interpret tax legislation correctly. Good for him, he lost and has to pay, no big deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 10:20 PM

300!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 08:00 PM

Yeah, seven-figure tax-dodging by all accounts.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 12:03 PM

Another greedy, tax-dodging Tory being taken to task. The BBC seem to have been completely silent - what a surprise…

Nadhim Zahawi’s tax-dodging caught out…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 12:00 PM

PDF of "The Telegraph" article

Any breaches of copyright are, I think, their problem, not mine!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 11:59 AM

"They are too busy down in the trenches, fighting their last heroic battle – an attempt to force through a bill which aims to scrap 4,000 EU-derived laws by the end of the year. By failing to explain how specific sectors would benefit from divergence, however, many voters will be wondering what the point is."

Well it's lost in the mists of time now, but I seem to remember arguing many moons ago with a certain T*erib*us and his sidekick Keith, rest him, that the UK had agreed enthusiastically with around 95% of all the EU rules and regs, we were umming and ahhing over about 3% more and were not happy with about 2%. After all, we were involved deeply in the drawing-up of 'em and were a highly-influential partner... So be prepared for another spell of Tories-not-running-the-country whilst vast tracts of parliamentary time are wasted...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 11:50 AM

Stanron - Big grin :-D

That would be good but I have seen Tim's picture and he is far younger than Bonzo. Unless Bonzo is channeling Bojo and telling porkies!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 10:53 AM

I don’t believe we will rejoin the EU for the simple reasons that…

1) the many benefits and advantages we enjoyed over many (most?) other members were flushed down the crapper by the Leave-voting fools, and they would never be reinstated in the unlikely event we applied to rejoin.

2) the Tory government has demonstrated many times to the EU what an untrustworthy gang of rogues they are, and I believe that we are inevitably all tarred with the same brush by the EU. For this reason, I have a very strong suspicion that any such application to rejoin would receive a flat “No”.

But while there’s life, there’s hope. Everything crossed…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 10:00 AM

Interesting article in "The Telegraph" today behind a paywall

Opinion by Sherelle Jacobs: "Britain is going to rejoin the EU far sooner than anyone now imagines"


"It is time for the Leave camp to start saying the unsayable: the Tories have made such a hash of Brexit that the project is probably now unsalvageable. Given Labour’s Europhile disposition, the window to lay the foundations for Brexit Britain was always limited to the Conservatives’ current reign. Now the end is nigh, and almost nothing has been achieved."
...
Take the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill set to replace the EU’s innovation-crushing GDPR. It was only set out last May and, after endless delays and distractions, there is little hope of getting anything workable passed before the next election. With two years at most until the next election, it would be next to impossible now for the Tories to launch a wholesale review of regulation to jump-start ground-breaking research, or exploit our freedom from state aid rules to channel funding to specific projects – even if they were minded to.

Where are the Brexit Spartans? They don’t seem to be interested in this big picture stuff. They are too busy down in the trenches, fighting their last heroic battle – an attempt to force through a bill which aims to scrap 4,000 EU-derived laws by the end of the year. By failing to explain how specific sectors would benefit from divergence, however, many voters will be wondering what the point is.

This is how Brexit dies. The received wisdom in Westminster is that it will none the less live on, not as a material thing, but as a political phantom – a subject that both parties avoid discussing at all costs, as the referendum’s legacy stalks Parliament, deformed, inviolable, forgotten.

("Sherelle Emma Jacobs is a British journalist. She is the Assistant Comment Editor at The Daily Telegraph" - Wikipedia)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Stanron
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 10:00 AM

What if Bonzo actually is Tim Stovald?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 08:50 AM

Bonzo, I have not once mentioned anything at all about tax returns and they are irrelevant to the discussion. As to being "worthless lefty drivel", well, let's see.

Worthless? Absolutely. Opinions, including mine and yours,on this forum are not worth anything.

Lefty? Yes, I am. It is not the insult you think it is

Drivel? Your quote was from Tim Stovald. He is an accountant specialising in tax avoidance. It was dated 2015. You did not credit him. It was his opinion. Which part of that do you consider drivel?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 07:12 AM

Well we can always tell when we've got you beat, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 07:08 AM

Absolute fucking rubbish

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 06:34 AM

The fact is that they pay less tax than they would if they were "doms" (which is precisely why they choose to be non-doms in the first place), and they can CHOOSE whether or or not to pay big VAT on their expensive cars and luxury kitchens by either buying them or not buying them. In other words, they have tax choices not available to ordinary British people. It's great to have choices when it comes to how much tax you pay. I wish! It's not just the money, Bonzo - it's the principle. Oh, hang on, I forgot - Tories do expedient, not principle...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 06:20 AM

Gnome - without inspecting a sample of nondom tax returns, your utterings are worthless lefty drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 06:03 AM

And please note - Trickle down economics is a known falacy.

https://www.economicsonline.co.uk/definitions/trickle-down-economics-why-it-only-works-in-theory.html/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 05:58 AM

What are not facts?

Stanron -

"The non-domicile regime is credited with encouraging many wealthy foreign nationals to base themselves in the UK" Is speculation, Credited by who?

"a system which encourages people to leave the UK after a few years means that many will simply choose not to come in the first place." Is speculation. How many? Facts and figures please.


"Non-dom families will often make significant investments in businesses" Is speculation. Note the word 'often'. How often? How much?

Of course the rich spend and pay tax but once you base those facts on speculative assumptions they become invalid.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Stanron
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 05:08 AM

Well Dave, which bits are not facts. Do the super rich not spend more than the poor? Do they not pay 20% Value Added Tax on all non essential payments? When they buy cars, washing machines, TVs, Kitchens etc, are they not top spec, most expensive and new? No budget spec, second hand models for them.

All payed with an extra 20% going straight into the public purse. Of course if you must make a moral stand then you must deny the public purse this revenue. The poorer amongst us will willingly make up the difference. Won't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 04:15 AM

It should be noted that Bonzo's quote is by Tim Stovold, an accountant specialising in tax avoidance for the wealthy, and is from 2015. It is the opinion of a man who encourages the rich to avoid paying their fair share of tax. Little wonder that it was uncredited and posted as if it was fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 04:03 AM

Note lefties all:

The non-domicile regime is credited with encouraging many wealthy foreign nationals to base themselves in the UK, educate their children here, establish businesses and create employment. Preserving the non-dom regime for short-term visitors to the UK is a welcome suggestion which is intended to minimise the impact on the movement of people to the UK to carry out short-term working assignments; however a system which encourages people to leave the UK after a few years means that many will simply choose not to come in the first place.

The value to the economy of wealthy families establishing themselves in the UK for longer periods should not be underestimated. Non-dom families will often make significant investments in businesses resulting in the creation of employment resulting in additional PAYE and NI collected, support UK charities and add to the economy as a whole by spending on these businesses, the education of their children and funding their lifestyle generally. Even though the UK tax system allows them to choose to pay the remittance basis charge of up to £90,000 per year instead of paying tax on their worldwide income, these families often still pay significant amounts of UK tax and add to the UK economy through their own, often significant, spending here. Long-term residents will also be subject to UK Inheritance Tax on their worldwide assets so this measure already helps to balance the equation. All of these factors should be considered by any government wishing to abolish the regime. The tax regime was purposefully designed to make the UK attractive to retain talent and to encourage those who can contribute to our society to move here.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 11:54 AM

Attila the Stockbroker on FB today….

”Anti-strike laws happening today - steamrolled through by the Tories like the anti-youth voter ID legislation and anti-climate change protest Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill. The only people this government wants to vote (apart from their corporate friends obviously) are old Daily Mail and Sun readers.

They seek to deny those who will be most affected by climate change the right to demonstrate and the right to vote. And they want to keep workers' wages down to generate more dividends for their shareholder parasite cronies. Anti-worker, anti-youth, anti-life.

Support the strikers - and anyone denied a vote next May under the voter ID laws should refuse to leave the polling station. FPTP, unrelenting press bias, organised voter fraud. Enough is enough!”

My parents went through six years of war, and hundreds of thousands died, to keep fascism out of the UK. Those who support this bunch of Hard-Right-Wing fruitcakes should hang their heads in abject shame.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 09:18 AM

Even better, don't bother responding.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 09:07 AM

"These idiots causing mayhem by risking their lives sitting in the road need putting in their place."

I am sure that they are able to make their own way to the middle of the road without help from the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 08:44 AM

Just try responding to points made, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 08:29 AM

Amazing how people with nothing to do talk such drivel.

Good on the government for the introduction of a law that enables the police to prevent a protest if they even *think* it might be disruptive. These idiots causing mayhem by risking their lives sitting in the road need putting in their place.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 06:52 AM

.... Welcome, one misstep at a time, to the Republic of Gilead.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 06:50 AM

And let's not forget how Johnson not only undermined the law with his illegal gatherings but also tried to undermine the rule of law via proroguing Parliament and by trying to change the law to protect his corrupt mate. I seem to recall Priti Patel not being sanctioned for her illegal dealings in Israel, going as she did well beyond her ministerial remit. And let's not get started on Grant Shapps, with his extremely dodgy business dealings, including operating under a pseudonym in order to deceive, his blatant lies about not having a second job and his gross misrepresentation of benefits claimants statistics. When it comes to laws and rules, they are regarded by the Tories as their playthings, to be tweaked or ignored at their convenience.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 06:32 AM

Not just insidious, Steve. It also (erm) strikes me as straight-out counterproductive ....

* Nurses take time and money to train.
* Them Up Top bleat "efficiency savings" and deprive the NHS of money.
* The NHS is understaffed and overstretched (therefore inefficient).
* Nurses start going on strike to make Them Up Top aware that this is not a Good Thing.
* Them Up Top threaten to sack nurses who go on strike.

.... Does not compute. MELON MELON MELON. Out-of-cheese error, and other computational protests to attempting to divide by zero.

On behalf of the rest of the Untied Kingdom, I wanna declare UDI from Planet Headbanger.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 06:26 AM

‘Were’, not ‘we’re’. @%&*ing Predictive Text! :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 06:24 AM

This is one of the things the Brexit-Bunch meant when they were busy parroting ‘Take Back Control’ at every conceivable opportunity. The Feeble-Minded, the Hard-of-Thinking, and the out-and-out Racists were persuaded by the Brexit-liars that ‘Taking Back Control’ was a metaphor for ‘Kicking the forriners (sic) out’ but, sadly, it meant far more than just that - it was a declaration that workers’ rights, citizens’ human rights, and many other benefits that we had got into the habit of taking for granted, we’re to be dismantled.

Never have so many been deceived and made fools of by so few…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 05:38 AM

So we are going to get a law that enables the police to prevent a protest if they even *think* it might be disruptive. That's a nifty way of keeping any protests so nice that they don't embarrass the Tories by getting on the front page. In addition, you may have your right to strike scuppered if it's deemed that you must work to provide "minimum service levels." In other words, your strike won't have any impact, and if you don't comply you'll be sacked.

These are incredibly insidious moves - and it's not putting it too strongly - towards totalitarianism. And we don't even have to mention that this self-same bunch of incompetents have themselves failed to provide "minimum service levels" in schools, the police, hospitals and the ambulance service for over a decade...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 03:11 AM

A number of countries have concerns about people travelling from China due to the covid situation in that country. I would imagine that you are aware of that fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 12:24 AM

Why shouldn't Chinese visitors who are visiting one country in the Schengen area be allowed to visit another. Have you got a problem with Chinese people visiting other countries. That sounds a tad racist to me, shouldn't you be more concerned about the lack of controls that allow BRITISH visitors to travel, for example, for a three day break from Prague to Leipzig without going through border checks??? Or is it just Chinese people, for example, who are visiting the South of France also visiting Venice that you have a problem with. Doesn't that prove that only racists voted leave?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 23 - 02:29 PM

Well, there's a difference between a poll that suggests a very tight result and a poll that suggests a gap of 57-43. Still, as with you, I'm always happy to distrust polls. I'm old enough to remember us all thinking that Harold Wilson was a shoe-in in 1970, and looked what happened there.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jan 23 - 02:11 PM

Steve,
As I said, "If you can trust the polls". The link that DMcG gave was to 'YouGov' an online pollster, and they were quite clear in their opening comments:
Every other source of information suggested that a victory for Remain was a done deal - only the online polls revealed the true state of the race. The real story of this campaign is that not enough attention was paid to good polls, not the reverse.

The media who were reporting the expected results were clearly relying on different polls.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 23 - 02:26 PM

I agree with all that. From the poll I sort of quoted, it seems that more and more leavers are seeing that leaving was a big mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 23 - 02:18 PM

Nigel. Of the two "benefits" you list, the first is possibly worth up to £33m. A drop in the ocean (pun intended) compared to the costs of brexit so far. The second is no different to the border controls we had as part of the EU. So, in a nutshell, no benefits at all :-(

FWIW, I am of the opinion that rejoining the EU is not an option. Firstly, they will not take us back and, secondly, as we have seen since 2016, the subject is too divisive. I am firmly a believer in the EU but I accept that a large part of the electorate will be alienated by going back to 2015. However, leaving things as they are is not an option either. Leavers need to accept and admit that brexit has been a disaster so far and looks likely to be so for a long time to come. As a nation we need to work closely with the EU in a cooperative and positive way. Whatever government is in charge after the next election needs to work hard to build bridges with Brussels and stop the confrontational nonsense that we have seen for the last few years.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 23 - 11:05 AM

Go through my points and tell me which ones you disagree with and why, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 23 - 10:59 AM

Right up to the referendum (June 2016) most opinion polls were showing a vote to remain

I fully understand why you say that, and it was indeed the message the press and other media were saying.   However, this link from YouGov is worth reading. I believe, also, that the media did not pay anything like enough attention to the range of results within the confidence intervals, just going with the central prediction. Understandable, to try to keep things simple, but misleading.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Jan 23 - 10:41 AM

Shaw behaving like a lefty schoolboy again!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 Jan 23 - 10:22 AM

The Uk was not a member of the Schengen agreement. We always had the right to stop non EU citizens from entering the UK from any of the EU member countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 23 - 10:19 AM

Run that by me again, Nigel...?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Jan 23 - 10:15 AM

Steve:
I think I see your need to dismiss it so summarily as a reflection of the fact that you always seem to cling valiantly on to the joys of brexit...
And your initially deciding to post it as grasping at straws . . .
(in a similar vein)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Jan 23 - 10:03 AM

Come on then, Nigel, list out the benefits we’ve all received as a result of BrexShit I'm guessing that 'out' should be 'one of', and that you are unable to spell 'Brexit', But:
Increased fishing catch limits

Also, the ability to decide for ourselves what action we take to control visitors from China since the relaxation of their travel restrictions. (Covid protection) Here. The EU claim to work as a bloc, but are making decisions piecemeal. Italy were the first to bring in restrictions, but thanks to Schengen that does not prevent Chinese visitors entering Italy through other EU countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 23 - 09:56 AM

Nothing compared to indulging non-doms. Or treating public schools as "charities" by letting them off VAT. Or giving bankers back their bonuses. Or trying to cut the top tax rate for the ultra-rich. Or letting gas and oil producers off with titchy windfall taxes, leaving them with so much profit that they don't know what to do with it.