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Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 18 Jan 23 - 10:57 PM I have edited. It must be a printed, hardcopy with margins for notes and questions. For the author a "double blind" clears doubts. Meeting, but without discussing the text or seeing the second editor. Establishing which "style handbook" from the start, is perhaps, the most difficult phase. Sincerely, Gargoyle Errors abound in e-text. The audacity to submit spoken translation, unedited, is the future. Effect are an abomination ... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 18 Jan 23 - 05:38 PM How conservators in Australian museums keep our national treasures from decaying ... conservators use cellulose-based paper such as Japanese tissue to repair tears or holes. "We can use it in when we're trying to carry out tear repairs, gap filling, and we often use it as a poke material to fill holes," ... just adding this tape to the info on this thread |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Jan 23 - 04:18 PM It's a quick moving stuff around on a screen, but I tend to get confused sooner or later. It's easy to make big mistakes. Doing things manually has advantages sometimes, if you haven't the right kind of methodical mind, which I haven't. If you are clear in your mind the e-road gets you there quickly and conveniently. If you aren’t a physical bookshelf opens up things to explore much better. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Helen Date: 13 Jan 23 - 02:31 PM MaJoC, I had the same issue when I was writing complicated reports or essays. I needed to print the rough draft to be able to see and evaluate the whole thing. Scrolling on a screen made it difficult to see how the written work fitted together as a complete entity, for some reason. I didn't mind reading Beowulf, about 30 years after I had studied it, because I was concentrating on remembering how to decipher the language and luckily I knew the story well enough to put that part more in the background of my mind - focusing on the mechanics of the language more than the meaning of the whole. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 13 Jan 23 - 11:12 AM > It's not just that the physical experience of reading a physical book > is different. The physical experience is a big part of it for me when I'm editing software. I find it vastly easier to use hard copy for large revisions; using only the screen, I find I have a 25-line attention span. > at the end of the day, they can wrap rubbish, much better for the > planet than plastic bags! In our house, newspapers get stacked for use later to help light the fire .... and to then get a second reading. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 12 Jan 23 - 04:30 PM right-on, McGrath, & at the end of the day, they can wrap rubbish, much better for the planet than plastic bags! Every day I buy our local paper The Sydney Morning Herald (est. 1831). Weekdays, $4, Sat $5, Sun $4.50, & it costs a fortune (according to my neighbour who buys the local Murdoch paper weekly for the TV program & gets her news on her phone & TV) - The Big Mac index - interactive currency comparison tool - but it's cheaper than a Big Mac which costs $6.90! "Access our insightful reporting across your devices. Subscribe from $2.90 per week" but I didn't read any further as I don't have any other devices, only this Mac. sandra |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Jan 23 - 02:51 PM It's not just that the physical experience of reading a physical book is different. When you want to have another look at something you read earlier in a book, it can be far easier to find it in a printed book, especially if what you remember about it is pretty vague and unspecific. It,s the same with newspapers. If you want some story that was one the left hand page, and near some other story with a picture of a country scene, having even the best of indexes or search engine isn't likely to be much help. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Helen Date: 12 Jan 23 - 11:03 AM One of the first essays I wrote in my librarianship studies back in 1980 was on whether books would become obsolete and I presented an argument that a lot of people would always want the satisfaction of reading a real book. The question on what the actual format of non-physical books would be was vague and uncertain at that stage. I think the only digital book I have ever read was Beowulf, online, in the original Anglo-Saxon. I used to read it at work in my tea or lunch breaks. BTW, the reason we used the bank paper strips to paste pages back in was so that the page opened neatly, instead of being stuck together and opening without the full width of the inner margin. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 12 Jan 23 - 09:27 AM > Books are amazing artefacts , so resilient. *Agree*, in spades. As someone who used to be paid for being besotted with computers, I can say with the authority of bitter experience that hard copy is vastly superior for long-term storage .... as long as there's a sufficiently comprehensive index, or you're only interested in linear access. I'll curtail the coredump there, before I start wittering on about the Mark One Eyeball, or our library suffers gravitational collapse. Oook. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Jan 23 - 08:56 AM For fixing in loose pages it's best to do without any tapes at all, and just stick some paste along the edge of the paint. For tears, pasted tissue does the trick. I've got a heap of books that have needed patching up for years. It's very satisfying fixing them. Books are amazing artefacts , so resilient. Always ready to come to life after years of neglect - e-reading will never replace them. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Helen Date: 12 Jan 23 - 02:45 AM Retired librarians rule, OK! :-) I agree about choosing the correct tape. Ordinary cellotape is a no-no, although I know a trick for removing the icky-stickyness from old cellotape on water resistant objects, i.e. not paper or books. Rub the affected area with a bit of eucalyptus oil on a cotton ball. The icky-stickyness disappears like magic. It's good for getting stubborn paper labels off chinaware etc. If necessary lay the eucalyptus soaked cotton ball or paper towel over the label so that the fumes soften the glue. I learned that in an archival conservation training day about 40 years ago. Repeat: Do not try this on your precious books and papers. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 12 Jan 23 - 01:52 AM when cellotape fossilises, it goes yellow & brittle & you can pull it off - leaving a yellow shadow where it had been, & gloom & desolation if it's a precious book. What is the difference between an invisible tape and a transparent tape? “Transparent tape” (Sellotape, Scotchtape) is glossy-surfaced cellulose tape. It will effect emergency repairs to torn paperwork, but over time it will yellow and become brittle, and the adhesive will give up. Its limitations are clear if you spend any time viewing documents from the first half of the 20th century, when it was the only repair option available. “Invisible tape” is a thin polyester tape with a matte surface. On paper, it becomes almost invisible, because the matte surface reflects no highlights. It does not yellow with age, and joints I made with it more than fifty years ago are still holding up fine. It is more expensive than transparent tape, but if what you want is longevity, it is the best option. (read on for more comments) Sometime after 1978 I repaired my mother's hardcover 1936 edition of Wind in the Willows at work using our 4" library spine tape together with a bit of invisible tape on the edge, but as a Library Supplies website says, tapes available 60 years ago are not the same as those available today, & the tape available at my library in the late 70s & 80s probably doesn't look as good as it did. But it's much better than sticky tape, both tapes are still matte & certainly not yellow. sandra (another retired librarian) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Jan 23 - 09:36 PM The crucial thing for any book repair which involves using tape is to make sure it's acid free, which most every day tapes aren't, and to avoid cellotape like the devil. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Jan 23 - 04:26 PM If it's just a matter of loose pages, even lots of loose pages, fixing Joe's book should be quite a straightforward business, and it's an nice book. Though the new edition looks quite an attractive book in itself. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Helen Date: 07 Jan 23 - 02:04 PM Sorry, and I forgot to say that you could photocopy the original book, with a colour copy if you want to preserve the aged colouring of the pages and then either place the copies in a folder or get it bound e.g. spiral or other binding, so that you can still use it while the original is safe and sound, tucked up in a place safe from further damage. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Helen Date: 07 Jan 23 - 02:01 PM I think that GUEST,Jon Dudley's suggestion has a lot of merit. If you can afford to buy a new book, not only would you have a lovely new book with the bonus of extra material *and* a beer-proof cover (what's not to love about that?), but you would be showing the Copper family how much you love your original book. You could then preserve your old book as a keepsake without risking further damage. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Jan 23 - 10:48 AM PVA glue is perhaps the handiest glue to use - it's cheap, dries quickly but not too quickly, and is water based. And it's safe to swallow, which is handy if you've got inquisitive pets or children around. Or a paste knocked up from flour and water works fine. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 07 Jan 23 - 10:08 AM During my time as the librarian of a small-ish faculty library at a university/college, rubber cement was the repair solution for loose pages. It's rough and ready and they were books for daily use, not to be kept forever. Did the job though. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: GUEST,Jon Dudley Date: 07 Jan 23 - 09:46 AM WARNING! UNDISGUISED SALES PITCH!Another solution is to preserve your original and much-loved original book and purchase a new one from us via www.thecopperfamily.com. Since 'A Song for Every Season' was published we have produced 'The Copper Family Songbook' which is now in its second edition and is a spiral bound object with a (relatively) beer-proof cover...so both it and the singer using it can lie flat... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Jan 23 - 05:57 AM For fixing single pages that have come used, rather than using paper strips as Helen suggests it can be better to just glue the page in. That¡s especially true if there are lots of loose pages, so that they bulk up and can cause a bulge on the spine. And glued stripsof paper have a tendency to deteriorate in time abd come away. Here's a video showing how it’s done. https://youtu.be/xvTK8tUCcmA. There's a comment below tge video which goes to the heart of what I said in my earlier post about the quality I value that seems to go with the craft: "it's easy to mess something up if you're not doing it slow, calm and steady." A motto to live by… |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: JennieG Date: 07 Jan 23 - 01:28 AM Another hand raised from one who used to work in libraries. Joe, the musty smell can be from the glue used, or some types of papers just seem to absorb more of the air around them.....particularly in a humid environment. Slightly off-topic, but related: one of my sewing machines is a 1950 Singer Featherweight. Featherweight owners have tried many things over the years to rid the carrying/storage cases of a musty odour, and most seem to have decided that it can be lessened but never completely removed. Perhaps it's a combination of the case being closed when the machine is not in use so it doesn't get aired, old oil which has turned slightly rancid, the glue used to stick the imitation leather lining and outer to the case - any or all of the above. Leaving the case opened outside on a sunny was said to help, but once it was closed again the smell returned. Unused kitty litter is said to be good for absorbing odours and moisture, but I haven't tried it. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 Jan 23 - 11:55 PM Garg, at least paper lasts longer than those old floppies. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 06 Jan 23 - 08:19 PM One of the most valuable threads in recent years. For common, used, hardback books, i.e. recent popular fiction novels, I dribble white glue (Elmer's USA) down the fractured spine. For my large paper-back Paul Simons 1985, I just use, and each page is now single. It was difficult from the beginning, terrible binding but great printing. For personal publishing, I have used archival paper, Xerox printing, and a local library book bindery. The 1880's leather bounds, sit in a bookcase behind glass...and disintegrate. The mildew has yellowed my old textbooks. The silver fish are making lace of note cards and files. The 5.25 single-sided floppies of the DT are useless. Sincerely, Gargoyle nothing endures forever, all must be reborn. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 Jan 23 - 07:52 PM My daughter makes custom books for writers and artists, and one of her gifts this xmas (from me) was a large guillotine-type paper cutter, that will trim up to 400 pages at a time. They're really beautiful when they're finished. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Jan 23 - 07:35 PM Recently I've been getting Into bookbinding, and it's a fascinating hobby. I had occasion to want to bind up some songbooks, and started looking on YouTube for guidance on that, and on basic book repair. There a whole mass of really helpful videos out there. In the same way that you can start learning to play a musical instrument very basically at first, and get surprisingly satisfying results quite quickly, yet still be learning for the rest of your life, this seems to be true of bookbinding and book repair. I only wish I'd got into it years ago. But at the same time it's great to find a new thing like this at my age. One of the things I most like is the fact that the craft really seems to go best along with with being ordered and quiet, and I tend to be neither of those things, and would quite like to learn how to be a bit more that way. Try typing into YouTube Annesi Bindings to see what I mean. And maybe Bookbinding DAS for a whole range of helpful videos. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Date: 05 Jan 23 - 05:21 AM I have bound one book when I was a teenager using my father's equipment that he had accumulated over the years as an art teacher. It took a lot longer than expected and used quite a bit of equipment (sewing frame, plough, etc.) and I had to learn a "kettle stitch". Unless you want a new hobby I would suggest seeing if you have a friend who is already into it. PS. The book is still in good condition! Robin |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: GUEST,Guest Date: 05 Jan 23 - 04:39 AM I've been a bookbinder for 35 years, mainly working with the secondhand book trade in the UK, making damaged/distressed books saleable. I've tried many things over the years to get rid of bad smells that books pick up, and fresh out the bag cat litter works - don't use secondhand! It's inert and does no damage, which is the place to start, and it's cheap and readily available. If the book has been at the bottom of a damp cellar, it probably won't make any difference, but that would definitely need professional attention. Just offering free advice - take it or leave it. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Ross Campbell Date: 04 Jan 23 - 06:18 PM I used to make up note-pads from scrap paper or light card, method similar to that for perfect-bound books (but without the end-papers or covers). Just used whatever glue was available in the office-supplies cupboard, usually rubber solution (trade-marked in UK as "Cow Gum"), vegetable glue which seems to have disappeared, or PVA-type white glue. May be worth the effort to save your Bob Copper book, but copies are cheaply available UK side on eBay or Amazon (post to USA may make me a liar!) but a quick look reminded me of several other Bob Copper books that ought to be worth investigating. If mildew is actually at the dusty stage replacement may be the better option. Good luck with the project! Ross |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: pattyClink Date: 04 Jan 23 - 03:45 PM The cat litter technique (allowing clay to absorb the odor) doesn't really get rid of the mildew, though it lessens the smell to some degree. Theoretically dry sunning will help too. But, I'm with SRS, consider it a ruined book, saved the information by scanning it. Print it out, and take it to a copy shop for comb-binding for easy use. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Helen Date: 04 Jan 23 - 12:25 PM Guest, Guest, the paper we used in the library might have been called bank paper. It's a lighter, finer, dryer type than the paper generally used for photocopying and printing which is more porous. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 Jan 23 - 12:02 PM No cat litter! Ever! Yuck! Sealing in plastic and freezing is a way to preserve it until you decide what to do, especially if there is moisture. You can cut off the binding and put in a spiral or other binder if the paper isn't too brittle. You can have a case made for the book to keep inside (a fancy library box of archival materials) and when you read it, use a book cradle to protect it. Personally, I'd scan the pages and print a working copy from those images, then store the original someplace in the archival box. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: GUEST,Guest Date: 04 Jan 23 - 04:58 AM The problem with using ordinary paper is the increased 'swell' at the spine. It will work for 1 or 2 pages but anything more than that and the book won't fit inside its covers. There's also the chance that the new joint will put extra stress on what remains of the binding hurrying its total failure. Personally, I'd only use Helen's technique on someone else's book. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Helen Date: 04 Jan 23 - 03:35 AM Also, if my "destructions" (joke) on how to do the paper strip repairs are unclear, I can email you some photos. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Helen Date: 04 Jan 23 - 03:29 AM Hi Joe, Many decades ago I used to do some book repairs at the library where I worked. If it is just one or two pages falling out, a neat trick is to cut a long strip of lightweight paper - cut it a bit longer than the height of the page and about 3/4 inch wide - fold it lengthwise, get the book ready, lightly apply some paste/water-based glue to the outside of the strip and gently push the strip into the crease of the page to hold both sides of the pages together. Make sure the paste is only on the two outside parts of the strip of paper so that no paste gets onto the pages and sticks them together. When all the pages are back in place, close the book, carefully trim the overhang of the paper strip at top and bottom, and let the paste dry. You might want to put the book down flat and rest another book on top to keep everything in place while the paste dries. The advantage of using the folded strip of paper is that the pages still open completely. If you just tried gluing the inner edges of the pages together, they wouldn't completely open. This only works if the binding is still mostly intact. If what you want to do is rebind the whole book, I don't know about that. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: GUEST,Guest Date: 04 Jan 23 - 03:23 AM Books that smell of mildew? I've had success with putting them in an air-tight, sealable, plastic food container (Tupperware?) and covering with cat litter. Check after a week and repeat if necessary. Remember to brush all the cat litter from the book before opening it, otherwise it could get between the pages. One can do a repair on "perfect bound"* books but it's very time consuming and, consequently, expensive. See here for an example of what's required to make them last: Conservation a Caoutchouc Binding Unfortunately, we did't learn the lessons of those Victorian experiments with glued spines and most older paperbacks will suffer the same fate eventually. Although modern, synthetic glues are better than gutta-percha, who knows how long they'll last. And, here in the UK, most modern hardback books are just paperbacks with stiffer boards. Proper, folded and sewn, hardbacks seem to only come out of the University Presses these days. Humanity may regret an over-reliance on digital. *Whoever came up with that name surely had a sense of humour! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Jan 23 - 01:30 AM And here's a video on glues for bookbinding: |
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Subject: Tech: Repairing Songbook Bindings From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Jan 23 - 01:20 AM I pulled out my paperback copy of Bob Copper's A Song For Every Season today. The book was published in 1971, and this copy seems to be a 1975 reprint by Paladin. There's also a recording of the same title at YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcV1N4i4PEk. There's a collection of maybe 40 songs in the back of the book. I imagine they are the same songs as in the recording, but a page fell out when I opened to the songbook section of the book. How can I fix this book? I'm afraid to open it because I'll destroy it. The pages are all intact - it's just that I can't open the book to actually read it. This book is a treasure, and I want to both read it and preserve it. I found a YouTube video titled How to Repair & Rebind a Damaged Paperback as a Hardcover Book: And here's an example with a perfect-bound book with a paper cover: Anybody have experience with fixing books? What about dealing with books that smell of mildew? -Joe- |
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