BS: KISS keep it simple

Subject: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 04:28 PM

Dave the Gnome asked me to dumb down my alternative explanations (hypothesis). On second thought It is a good idea. Richard Feynman was the most personable genius and said you should be able to tell a stranger on a bar stool what you are on about.
You also can simplify stuff but never too much. So I will let you know some things you have to know first. I am on the outside looking inside at new discoveries And learning what I need to know to understand what I am seeing then try to make a distillation of common sense. When that common sense does not agree with conventional science I see a clue to look deeper or elsewhere.
You almost have to suspend belief in some things like gravity since there is no observational evidence for the graviton. Waves yes, but no trace of quanta packets of energy. Also, questions like why, can often not be answered. Problems that can't be solved require a new approach.
So here goes...Basically, there are two buckets of stuff, one has matter and the other bucket has force carriers. There are six kinds of electrons and sixteen kinds of quarks. The other buck has particles we call force carriers which are phons of the electrodynamic force. Gravitons are thought to be the force carrier of gravity, The strong nuclear force has carriers called gluons which I think have eight gluons and the weak nuclear force has three carriers. That's four fundamental forces. Yep we are looking for a fifth but it is inconclusive so far.
Issac Newton was stumped when it came to the concept of force carriers since he knew some things acted at a distance and he did not know how they did that. The three giants in Physics were Newton (the first physicist) Maxwell(found force carriers) and Einstein (the pull on space-time by mass).
After that, I have my favs like Dirac, and Shroedinger (for showing the absurdity of quantum mechanics) although the math worked. BTW I do not think in math which is like like a musician who can't read music but I do use mental pictures with my mind's eye which has its problems and advantages.
Photons pass through each other but other boson particle force carriers like fermions do interact and bounce off each other,r which makes bosons and fermions different. Now let's go smaller and look at neutrinos which pass through everything but can on very rare occasions interact with Matter. There are at least 6 kinds or flavors of neutrinos and seem to be able from one kind to another on their own.
We haven't measured all the theorized bosons but some of them have technicolor names

So now you know some names and types of standard particle theory. But what about reality? If everything was symmetrical we would not exist but somewhere the symmetry broke and our universe became possible. You can say symmetry broke and the magic happened.
.
Now let's go smaller into nothing and you are in the quantum realm where fields fluctuate and particles pop into and out of existence. Some physicists don't bother to ask where they come from or where they go but virtual particles seem to go somewhere.
In this land of potential and probabilities, there are uncertainties. You can say on a fundamental level things are uncertain which seems reasonable and strange. Physicists may refer to these bits of nothingness as objects even though there may be nothing there.
Mysteries abound in this realm. For example, there seem to be error-correcting codes at this level. We do not know what this means. Mysteries that fascinate me are dark matter and dark energy. Based on their attributes some things are known but the ideas so far are not helping.

By now you see there is room for more speculations. It can be fun to explore new possibilities. Not by superstition but by things we know but perhaps can not yet measure. Is that lying? I don't think so. I think it is called thinking.
Naturally, black hole questions are popular today. That Dr. Penrose won a Nobel prize for his speculation of black holes but Einstein couldn't win one for General or Special Relativity. That is because of the way the rules for the prize are written.
I was born before Al died but scientists still criticized him regarding his theory into the 50s. It is more time-consuming to think than to be a critic.
As for psychology, it became clear to me the unconscious mind was bigger, stronger and smarter than the conscious mind. 12 years in clinical practice will do that.

I don't know if that clears things up for Dave or not.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 04:43 PM

buck=bucket and phons=photons
the rest you can intuit

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 05:09 PM

If this is a college lecture, wake me up at the end of the hour, somebody.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 05:42 PM

I also believe in free will because I have no choice but to believe in it when I question everything.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 05:58 PM

I thought you wanted to keep it simple.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 07:28 PM

In short you are adversarial. You have an adversarial government. You probably have adversarial relationships and family.

I get it,

but you are no Christopher Hitchins.
I wish you were because you contradict yourself a great deal
but you work with what you got. We all do.

If we could start the early Earth over a million times, different life would probably evolve each time. Some might have only right-handed proteins.
No way can we ever test this hypothesis but I think about these things.
As is, life evolved entirely differently at least once.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 07:39 PM

sigh. I knew it was you, Donuel, before I opened the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 07:49 PM

Same here. A dose of the usual, of course...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 08:17 PM

Subjects that open my mind to new thoughts are a pleasure for me. That's why even the new data about UAPs may not have a conclusion but novel thinking results. If that offends you I think that's weird, so were even. Perhaps you never put yourself in the shoes of an alien and see things from their POV. I have and there are ideas to be gained. Ideas like how we would make false assumptions if we did meet since we are human. We would probably assume human aspects to them that do not exist.

a kiss is just a kiss a sigh is just a sigh
these are fundamentals of our life as time goes by
mysteries are unknown the answer leaves mind's blown
its the fundamental question why as time goes by.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 08:20 PM

You don't offend us but you do amuse us, and not always in the best way.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 23 - 08:55 PM

I can not be shamed by control freaks for asking unpopular questions.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 02:43 AM

Thanks Donuel. As yet it does not look simple but I have only skimmed it. I shall look more closely later.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 06:04 AM

Sorry Donuel. I think it comes down to us communicating on different levels. Your explanation of particle theory is perfectly clear and your line "By now you see there is room for more speculations. It can be fun to explore new possibilities. Not by superstition but by things we know but perhaps can not yet measure." is a good description of how you work but, for me, the whole post is marred by obscure references.

"You almost have to suspend belief in some things like gravity since there is no observational evidence for the graviton." - Sorry but that does not make sense. Gravity exists and whether it exists because of the graviton or the gravy boat does not matter.

"We haven't measured all the theorized bosons but some of them have technicolor names" - WTF are technicolour names?

"If everything was symmetrical we would not exist but somewhere the symmetry broke and our universe became possible." Really? Is that a fact? I am no astrophysacist but I have never heard of that theory.

Those are just three of the things that are arcane.

Let me tell you how I work through similar things. They are either fact or speculation. Speculation can become fact when knowledge is gained. Facts can be superceded by other facts as knowledge improves. I have no issue at all with saying 'I do not understand this' and when I do not understand it, I ask a couple of simple questions.

Do I need to understand it? If the answer is yes, I try to learn about it. If no, I defer to people who do

Do I want to understand it? If yes I will often pose questions like "WTF are technicolour names" (See - I DO want to understand :-) ) If no, I forget it.

I realised some time back that the older I get, the less I seem to know. It makes life interesting enough to know that things that happen every day to surprise or astound me. Some bad, but most of them good and all of them quite amazing.

I think you may have got the wrong idea about keeping things simple for me. I neither want nor need flowery or arcane language. Tell us what you think and why you think it, prefereably without stating opinions or theories as facts. We can make our own minds up. No one will think any the worse of you if you do not have 'special' powers. You are a very special person to many already. No need to try and impress others.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 06:30 AM

I heartily agree. Call a spade a spade. Donuel revels in NOT keeping things simple, unfortunately, which belies the title of this thread. There's poor English, there are flowery and obscure asides which he ascribes to his poetic predilections (sheesh), there are opinions as facts - and, saddest of all, there's a reputational issue. Too many times in the past we've had half-truths or garbled facts (which aren't always even facts) because of lack of checking. So you never know what to believe unless you start from scratch and research his claims yourself, which can get you very annoyed when you find a lot of errors and misinterpretations. Oh yes, and those claims of special powers... :-(

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 07:31 AM

Where there is shared expertise in cross-domains and disciplines there is more to be learned but when there is no sharing of data we handicap the search for truths. People are organic data streams capable of great things in collaboration. Fear and greed still interfere in research.
If Steve could even once give examples of his complaints you would find he was fooled by humor he can't understand or when I MAKE AN HONEST MISTAKE. Mostly he has another misguided agenda,

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 07:35 AM

Thanks Steve. It may help if you cut him a bit more slack though. I think your observations are correct but I reckon that is just differences in how people communicate and, in this case, does it really matter? Yes, misinformation needs to be put straight but unless it directly affects me or my loved ones, I would be happy just pointing out the fallacies and leaving it to others to make their own minds up. If does affect me as in, for instance, the stance that the Tories are doing a good job, I will move heaven and earth to put it right. But precognition, god, the flying spagetti monster? Unless someone tries to force that belief on me, I just try to mention that it may be bollocks and leave it at that. I often fail but, hey, I am only human. Unlike some ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 07:41 AM

Lo and behold - a post appears, before I hit enter on mine, that I consider to be mainly bollocks. Organic data streams? What are they? Humour he can't understand? If someone does not understand it, it is not humourous! But does it reduce my quality of life? Nah. Do other people see it as bollocks? Well, if a Gnome of limited intelligence can work it out, I'm sure others can :-D

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 07:41 AM

There are several different schools of theoretical physics. One is called super symmetry. It expects many new force carrier particles and names the with an s like selectrons. They reveal themselves in math quite elegantly but present a problem when it comes to actual observation because they may occupy different dimensions. Supersymmetry is closely linked to string theory.

Later more different approaches can be discussed like brane theory and multiverse theories.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 07:49 AM

Yes, Donuel. I understand that it is theoretical physics yet in your initial post you said

"But what about reality? If everything was symmetrical we would not exist but somewhere the symmetry broke and our universe became possible."

That looks remarkably like you are stating it as a fact to me. I understand it is not but the more gullible may believe it is. I am tryng to help by pointing out it may not be true. When you say you want the truth, please ensure that you tell the truth as well.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 08:40 AM

I pity the weary traveller who asks Donuel for directions. I imagine that they would never reach their destination.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 12:56 PM

Oh, geez. This is why I studied history.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 01:14 PM

Cutting someone slack who is peddling deliberate misinformation and obfuscation simply means that nonsense is allowed to infest the forum, Dave. This place can be better than that.

Nice one, Charmion. Luckily, I studied natural history, so much of the physics goes over my head. But when I do make the effort to delve and find his stuff wanting, I end up thinking that everything he says needs checking. That's annoying.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 01:22 PM

The Daily Heil peddles deliberate misinformation, Steve, so I just don't read it. Fair enough, we all read posts on here and some are unwelcome but I find my own personal filter is pretty effective at sifting out cobblers :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 01:24 PM

The thing with studying history -- natural or any other kind -- is that inquiry begins with evidence (e.g., a bunch of tattered letters in a long-sealed file box, or a weird new finch), and continues through searching for and examining more evidence. Any speculation that is not briskly confirmed by evidence gets dumped, or the other historians will laugh and point, and stop inviting the speculator to symposia.

And that, gentlemen, is simplicity.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 01:29 PM

BTW Donuel. I just remembered that the acronym KISS is, or was, keep it short and simple. Maybe applying both would help.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 03:19 PM

Well said, Charmion (again).

KISS means "keep it simple, stupid." I doubt whether he knew that that's what it means.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 03:21 PM

Probably didn't have space on the line.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 03:24 PM

The Daily Mail puts out factual information which is selective and which is subtly mixed with comment. Good journalism attempts to separate news and comment. Donuel peddles misinformation. There's a difference. At least three, if not more, people here besides me have called him out.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 03:26 PM

Yes he did, Maggie. I've just tried it.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 03:52 PM

I remember that one too!

Fairy Nuff, Steve. Just thought it may be worth trying a different approach. I shall take my own advice and not press the issue :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Jan 23 - 03:57 PM

For completeness: Donuel has this bit right: If everything was symmetrical we would not exist but somewhere the symmetry broke and our universe became possible. Had the Big Bang resulted in equal amounts of matter and antimatter, there'd have been a massive fireworks display, leaving only a cloud of gamma radiation.

Working out what broke symmetry is left as an exercise to the advanced theoretical physicist: your task, if you choose to accept it, is to permit symmetry to be broken without also breaking the astonishingly close agreement between currently-accepted physics and observation; predictions which can't be tested won't count. You are permitted to use both sides of the paper, but not at the same time. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 03:07 AM

Sorry MaJoC but the asymmetry between matter and anti-matter is simply that. As far as I know "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" does not have an equivalent "every thing has an equal and opposite thing". Do we know that something "broke symmetry" or has there never been perfect symmetry in the natural universe? I understand that this is theoretical physics and is fascinating to some but to sell theory as fact is misleading and that is what I am trying to point out.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 04:07 AM

I was going to mention earlier but forgot. As an example of keeping complex subjects simple, the excellent Bill Bryson book, A short history of nearly everything is very good indeed.

I know that Bryson is not an acclaimed scientist but he is a great Anglo-American writer and humourist that has the knack of explaining many subjects in an easy to digest and entertaining way. As the explanations are often his take on science I would not rely on his views being spot on but they certainly make the subject easier to understand.

And just for you, Donuel, I must comment that he mentions Richard Feynman very early on. Which is what must have reminded me but it took me days to look it up :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 06:15 AM

What is simple are people who accept shit without question. Take the corporate organization. I see people who like to be systemized. One guy says everything will be fine if you accept that I am your boss and you will be my worker, Besides this BS website is a bit on the WASPY side you guys often accept your own nonsense without question. For example, you might say Ralph died of natural causes. I don't know anyone who died of unnatural causes.
What would an unnatural cause be? Being murdered by a time traveling multi dimensional insect?


Explain the universe in 4 simple sentences. Its a fools errend. It was tried in the Bible and we know how that BS turned out. So I will not bother to say 3 specific quarks are required to make a proton or a neutron. I leave most of your questions open to your own google endeavor. Be that as it may. You might realize that politics is a lot like comedy football - despite hecklers once in a while you find a path to open field and you score but most of the time its just a bunch of hitting and small losses. Maybe that's why football is so popular.

In conclusion, thinking outside the box is close to reality. You are probably in a box made by others. Your own box is preferable, whatever it is, even if it writing a Jewish version of Citizen Caine or Mein Kampf. Thats right the universe is on the absurd side and we try to systematize it according to rules we make up ourselves. Religions - we made them up. RIGHTS - we made them up. So we might as well make up good ones.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 06:27 AM

Go and have a nice cup of tea.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 07:40 AM

Well, sorry Donuel, but that is the biggest load of twaddle I have seen in a long time. Both style and content are lacking. There is no focus. I have no idea what you are referring to with most of it. There may be some gems of insight in there but they are lost in all the rubbish.

I know you are not in the least bit interested in my critique but please feel free to take or ignore my advice as you will. Be clear with what you want to say. Think about your target audience. If you disagree with anything I say just say so. I will not take offence. Other than that, unless you want me to address something specific, I'm afraid I must consign you to my list of people to ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 08:04 AM

"What is simple are people who accept shit without question....you guys often accept your own nonsense without question..."

Would you like us to accept your, er, shit and nonsense without question? Or were you trying to be ironic?

By the way, we all know what dying via "natural causes" does and doesn't mean. It's a linguistic device, not a technical term. We can help you with that if you'd like us to. Don't worry - you can question it if you like...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 04:17 PM

I find the absurd responses pure comedy.
I don't think Einstein bounced his material off a crowd, he just had a handful of select friends and had his wife do most of his math. Later he gave the proceeds of his Nobel prize to her.

Its getting to the point where dictators and comics sound similar to me. When comics die on stage they sort of look like Khadaffi looked right before he actually died. Between the two I prefer comics
Some people march to the beat of a different drummer but I don't march and seldom care for drumming. Social media brings out the ass hole in folks for some reason.

Below the line I don't hear an original thought as much as I hear a critique. Rage drives social media as much as comedy. This site reminds me of Portlandia in that the cast take everything so seriously which makes the whole thing a comedy to the observer. I think Steve thinks his posts are timeless enduring and profound but the real punchline is that they are not. Like others, he does not know the difference between comedy and a normal narrative. Free association is costly in the real world but online its free. I know most of my posts reflect the current level of coffee in my bloodstream. By the law of averages I bet at least one mudcatter here has a lava lamp. By the same reason not one here has the answer to what the hell is dark matter or energy.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 04:26 PM

BTW Dave is on point with my opinion of his unread critique. Ain't that typical. Dave there is room for a new superhero called the Convincer, he wins every argument or thinks he does.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 05:22 PM

Your inferiority complex is showing through. By the way, I know nothing of social media. Have never indulged in any of it, not for a single minute.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 05:48 PM

> the Convincer

He's hunkered down in Mar-a-Lago.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 06:24 PM

More brain droppings; I am tolerant but I am not so tolerant as to tolerate intolerance.
I can be arrogant but not smug. Dave is smug but not arrogant. you know who is both.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 06:31 PM

'Tis you.

"O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion.”

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 07:04 PM

Ignoring really is the only way forward now Steve. It worked with thingy and whatsit who's names have now been erased from my RAM :-D

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 07:20 PM

One other thing (hope you don't mind, Dave...): Dave and I are both northerners of similar age and (more or less!) similar politics and outlook on life. We have never met though I hope we can put that right some day. We have differed numerous times when it comes to perspective on various issues, but we have always managed to agree to disagree if necessary. Despite any differences we may have, our transactions have been nothing less than amicable every time.

On a number of occasions recently you have made some rather feeble attempts to drive a wedge between us by bigging up Dave and dissing me. That rather unsubtle approach has been quite apparent in recent times. Well don't think I don't know what you're up to, and I can tell you that you are on a hiding to nothing. I actually find this to be childish and I'm really sorry that you appear to be unable to come across here as a positive and cheery fellow who can express himself clearly and be humble enough to realise that you are no real authority on anything that you think you are. A good scientist is a good communicator. That's one hurdle you fall at every time. You really don't have to be like this. You need to take two steps back and reconsider the way you approach the rest of us here. Dave has given you good advice. As you won't listen to me (why should you? Why should anybody!), at least listen to him.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 07:21 PM

Cross-posted there, Dave. You could be right!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 23 - 07:30 PM

Anyway, enough of this. I have to go to Specsavers tomorrow. I think it's the Launceston branch, but if I find I've been misinformed and it's really the Barnard Castle branch, I'll call in on you Dave en route. I need to drive from Bude to Barnard Castle anyway, just to test my eyesight, don't you know...!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 03:02 AM

A wedge is whenever you feel you are not the center of attention.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 03:33 AM

sheesh. Is that why you start so many threads, Donuel? I would probably often enjoy your posts if they stayed on my level....

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 10:28 AM

You might enjoy them if you got a time machine. Be sure to set it to PRESENT.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 01:37 PM

We'd all enjoy them more if they were focused, well-expressed, well-researched and accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 04:38 PM

"By the way, I know nothing of social media. Have never indulged in any of it, not for a single minute."
quote: the guy who complains about internet trolls.

I know some other guys who constantly spewed a dehumanization of the Jews

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 05:16 PM

As we are bringing up random irrelevances, I have heard some people enjoy massaging custard into their buttocks! There is a deep meaning to this but you lesser mortals will not understand:-D

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 05:38 PM

If it wasn't for your enemas you wouldn't have any sober friends at all.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 05:58 PM

The fact is, old son, whether you like it or not, that I have never spent one second on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter or any similar wastes of space and am not registered to any of them. So yes, I can say what I said and I don't need some idiot trying to cast aspersions on that. Just stick to what you know, why don't you, you loser. And I don't understand your allusion to dehumanisation of Jews. Perhaps you could enlarge on that so that I can consider suing you. You disgust me, frankly.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 06:07 PM

Trying though Donuel is I think Mudcat counts as social media. His other allegations are nothing short of slanderous though. Typical keyboard warrior.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 06:07 PM

Why would you think that the BS part of Mudcat is not social media? It's a pretty niche element of society admitted but it is still media that is social. Unruly, sometimes unpleasant and a lot smaller than the big hitters already named I admit.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 06:18 PM

It's the only place I come to to post anything like a lot, and I value it. You can't post photos or set up chatty groups, etc., it's agreeably old-fashioned and it's absolutely nothing like those other horrors I mentioned. You can't come here to groom kids and you can't promote suicide and self-harm or promote terrorism. We are a particular narrow section of society, bound together by our interest in traditional music. Yes I know we can stray from that but I for one make it my priority to scan the above-line list every time I come here, even though a lot of the time I don't have much to say there. If you want to call Mudcat "social media," good for you. But I think I can see quite a few stark differences between it and those other places, even if you can't.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 06:54 PM

Sociable media?

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 07:21 PM

"have never spent one second on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter or any similar wastes of space and am not registered to any of them."

You have said before that you have spent time on Facebook. I am not registered with any of those sites but i do read some pages which are available without the need to register in order to access them. They are not all a waste of space either.

Some of the exchanges here in the BS section do resemble some of the behaviour found on those sites. It is not so much the platform but more the behaviour of the individual posters.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 07:49 PM

My car is an Aixam Mega City electric car. The last time I looked there were only six registered on the road in this country. Information on these cars is hard to get.

I've joined two Aixam groups on Facebook and received and given information in both these groups. Valuable stuff both ways. I've also joined a G-Wizz group, a couple of battery building groups and some EV building groups. There are founts of knowledge out there that are well worth tapping.

My car sat on my driveway, not working, for over six months before I found out how to fix it. The information that mattered came from the G-Wizz Facebook group.

I've never posted or received abusive stuff. No kids were harmed at any point.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 08:02 PM

"You have said before that you have spent time on Facebook."

Really? The only time I ever look at Facebook is to find out what's happening when Mudcat is down. Sometimes it will let me look, other times times it won't. I am not a member and I don't post, and never will. Mrs Steve and I are not on Facebook. Most of our other nearest and dearest are, but not once have we ever looked at what they do there. If you think that means I am "on Facebook," then our perspectives clearly differ.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 23 - 08:04 PM

And by the way,

"Some of the exchanges here in the BS section do resemble some of the behaviour found on those sites."

How would you know if you're not on them??

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 02:32 AM

The allusion to the dehumanisation of Jews is as arcane, obscure and mystic as the one to massaging custard into buttocks, Steve. You will never understand it because you are not "special". Like I keep saying, best to ignore it.

I go on Facebook regularly and Mudcat, even the BS section, is nothing like it. You cannot post photos and videos on here. The unregisteted public cannot even comment on the BS section. There are so few of us here that moderation is possible. The moderation team and even the site owner are approachable. I disagree with some of Steve's views on Facebook but to liken it to Mudcat is beyond ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 02:50 AM

I am not a member of any of those sites. I read some sites which are open to the public, just like you say that you do. Facebook sites can be moderated by those who set them up. The Mudcat Facebook site is an example of that.

Not all social media sites are bad. To say so is just plain daft.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 03:23 AM

I agree with that, Rain Dog, and that is where I disagree with Steve. One good point he makes though is that by being members of Facebook we are helping to support the groups that are harmful. I stay a member in the (probably vain) hope that it Will eventually get its act together and axe the ability to start hate/ conspiracy/ self-harm etc. groups.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 03:53 AM

I’m with Raindog and Dave. I do use Facebook, mostly for family contacts and FB Groups in which I have a particular interest - Tall Ship sailing, specific guitar groups, a couple of Outdoors groups, and a few others. However, it’s the only SM site I use - Mrs Backwoodsperson has a Twitter account and follows a particular dog-breed group, but that’s pretty much the sum total of her involvement.

And, like Dave, I have reservations about my (unintentional and involuntary) part in enabling harmful groups on FB but, also like Dave, I continue in the hope that it will sooner or later clean up its act.

With regard to the trolling and other nasty stuff that goes on on FB, by restricting the Groups I belong to, I avoid much of it. And, exactly as on this forum, it can be ignored and simply scrolled past.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 04:29 AM

It's a free country and I would never shout at people simply because they're "on Facebook." Some people send their kids to private schools. Some jump the queue by paying for private medicine. Some enjoy Wagner's music even though he was rabid antisemite. I haven't checked the ethical failings of the banks which have my savings. I eat crumpets made by a company that donates to the Tories. For me, the extensive harm that Facebook does is in plain sight and it's just a bridge too far for me. Life was fine without it and still is for me. That's all.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 06:02 AM

I enjoy being on our local Facebook to see what's going on in our village. It's very useful (road closures, escaped goats, opening times for the pub and the shop etc). I rarely post on there, just sometimes to ask a question or respond to our shepherdesses who run the sheep sanctuary. No trolls or nastiness (thank goodness).

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 06:03 AM

As for massaging custard into buttocks, Dave, that would just about become vaguely interesting to me if it was someone else's buttocks. You didn't specify...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 06:17 AM

Well I hear that you can ringfence your own Facebook activities. But knowing what I know about the harm that can be done to vulnerable people, the lack of control over children using the site, the trolling and hate speech that often goes untouched and the various incitements to violence, self-harm and suicide, etc. etc., it's a line that I personally won't cross. That's just me and for all the reasons I mentioned before I can't criticise those who come to a different decision. To do that would be hypocritical. The company that owns Facebook, etc., makes billions a year in profits. I might think differently if some of that money was used to employ armies of moderators who would pre-moderate every post that was intended for the public domain and close the accounts of people who continually violate the rules. Yes I know there are issues with that. Far too much profit, far too little control going on. No Wild West for me, thanks, and no unintended support for it either.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 07:36 AM

I'll keep it simple, I do not respect white nationalists of any nationality, even those with colonial values and a social caste system of classism. The hypocrisy of the 'love me I'm a liberal' self-proclaimed lefty is due to old age but that is no excuse. That I do not respect such a person is not slanderous, it is a fact. I do not care if the person wants to identify themselves as a botanist of a certain age because I can separate that from their darker anti-social aspect of their behavior. Even a one-man cult is still a cult. You guessed it, I do not like cults.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 07:49 AM

You would think people could spell cu*t right wouldn't you...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 23 - 09:10 AM

It would pay you to take note of the people who have seen through your vile nonsense in the last couple of days both in this thread and your precognition one. That latest personal attack shows that you never actually take anything on board. So many of your posts reveal that you've gone through life not learning lessons properly, so I can't say I'm surprised to see you carrying on digging. Disappointing, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 08:07 AM

There are different flavors of white nationalists and I have surmised where one is on the spectrum including myself. I understand Steve can't 'smell' himself as the hateful bigoted troll he is. There is even the kind of denier who can partially accept certain facts and still be prejudiced to the contrary. Its as common as mixed feelings.
I know what amazes me does not amaze others. For example the DNA packet in sperm that will express a female will still corkscrew swim but go slower and lives longer than a male producing sperm. I accept that humans have temporary organs. Ther are probably thousands of things we will disagree.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 09:00 AM

To be simple the most fundamental difference between us is joy, satisfaction and happiness. For me it comes from the inside.

For you it comes from the outside like money, food, and travel. Like a punchline that is tacked on instead of a scenario or bit that is funny.
After joy I would say empathy is a second major difference.
Its like the value of whats inside a person and not what they look like.

If I had a post that was like a classroom, your behavior in that class would not be acceptable by the students or teachers. Especially if they had to pay for that education. I revel that humanity can be enhanced.
You like that humanity can be controlled, obstructed and interrupted,.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 09:51 AM

Apart from that, everything OK then? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 01:53 PM

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead —his eyes are closed. The insight into the mystery of life, coupled though it be with fear, has also given rise to religion. To know what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty,iwhich our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms—this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.
I would say I am religiously curious but not about religiosity.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 03:30 PM

Steve confuses the word mysterious with obscure.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 04:26 PM

Well I regard your alleged mysteriousness as pure bullshit, but that's just me. Keep digging.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 07:54 PM

steve sings

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 08:00 PM

"

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead —his eyes are closed. The insight into the mystery of life, coupled though it be with fear, has also given rise to religion. To know what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms—this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness."

Quote: Albert Einstien

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 08:43 PM

Well I must have said it on this forum a dozen times: I reject religions, and religiosity, because there's no explanation for anything in nature therein. It's an intellectual copout. It's a way of finding easy, reassuring, false answers and it stunts the pursuit of science, the search for real knowledge. It's not possible to explain the world and the universe by confecting a supernatural, all-knowing, all-powerful creator of everything, without beginning or end, who is himself utterly beyond explanation. Quite often, the purveyors of such remarkable beings like to couch things in such ways as to have the rest of us thinking that they are somehow "mystical" or more "spiritual." Those two words are almost redundant in my lexicon. The world and the nature it holds, and the universe beyond, are wonderful enough, amazing in their beauty and diversity, with lots still to explain via scientific endeavour. There's so much to engender curiosity, wonder, awe, delight and edification there, with no need whatsoever to take heed of the flights of evidence-innocent fancy that we've seen in a couple of recent threads here. The real beauty of the world, including not only nature but also the human endeavours of music, art and literature, is contained in the enquiry those things generate in us. That's enough for me, and I don't need God, magic or fairies at the bottom of the garden. By the way, unless Einstein is talking about science, he's no greater than anyone else!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 10:06 PM

You really know how to completly miss the point.

So back to cosmology according to a NOBEL PRIZE WINNER Penrose

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 10:33 PM

After you called Einstein's thoughts total Bull Shit you now try to say you have a better idea? BTW he's not talking about the glory of religion but instead the power of mystery in our history. Its OK we already know you are no Einstien.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jan 23 - 10:53 PM

We were living in Virginia when a family from Oklahoma arrived and attended our church. They had a son about the same age as my 12 year old brother.

After church one day this boy started bragging about his abilities as a horse rider and trainer. The older boys in the group were polite, nodding their heads and telling him, Ah. Oh, wow. Oh yeah, I can see how that happened....

My brother spoke up. I don't believe it, he said loudly. This kid is lying.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 03:02 AM

One of the most amazing, yet frustrating, wonders of nature is how someone can see another person's words and glean an entirely different meaning to the rest of us...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 04:06 AM

Donuel's entire recent focus appears to be personal attacks. I think I've worked out what that's a sign of. Hands up anyone else, by the way, who thought I said that I thought Einstein's ideas were total bullshit. I'm definitely no Einstein, in exactly the same way that Donuel is no scientist.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 04:25 AM

Steve:

"The world and the nature it holds, and the universe beyond, are wonderful enough, amazing in their beauty and diversity, with lots still to explain via scientific endeavour. There's so much to engender curiosity, wonder, awe, delight and edification there.... The real beauty of the world, including not only nature but also the human endeavours of music, art and literature, is contained in the enquiry those things generate in us."

Albert:

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

I think that Albert and I are agreeing here. If anyone sees a hidden conflict between our philosophies, do apprise me. By the way, the whole essence of science is to endeavour to solve the mysterious (of course, there are practical aspects too...). The starting point is contained in the humility that we don't yet understand enough to provide the answers, that gods of gaps don't cut it, and the delicious thing is that some answers may never be found. The process has be the scientific method and we have to eschew the temptations of the mystical and the religious and anything else that attempts to sidetrack that. In no way does that marginalise human imagination, without which there wouldn't be the enthusiasm to keep looking. Just beware of the holy men, the mystics, the precognistas and the snake oil salesmen en route...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 06:57 AM

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science..."

Well I regard your alleged mysteriousness as pure bullshit, but that's just me. Keep digging. Steve Quote

OR

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

I think that Albert and I are agreeing here.Steve quote.

Did you lie the first time or the second time or both?

When I do not respond to your baseless claims you become more trollish.
I will no longer tolerate your senseless trollism without showing how aggressively you attack every single statement you think I make.
You are still obstructing the basic tenants of cosmology with remarks that are not contributing. It is my opinion everyone should have some means of knowing where and why they are here. You can stop being against it. Or can you?
Simply put it is you who are adrift.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 08:20 AM

If you say so. You have a simple solution in the interests of regaining your cool: stop the attacks and just talk sense instead. Brave new world!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 08:37 AM

A simple question
What kind of troll are you?
Who's against everything
It seems I'm not the only one
Who objects to your swill
What kind of mind is this?
An empty shell
A lonely cell in which
A hateful heart must dwell
What kind of clown is he?
What does he know of life?
Why can't he cast away?
His mask of clay
And live his life
Why can't he stay away?
Like any normal guy
And maybe then I'll know
What kind of fool he is
What kind of mind is this?
An empty shell
A lonely cell in which
A hateful heart must dwell
What kind of lies are his?
That lied with every post
That whispered depraved words of hate
And lied the most
Why can't he contribute?
Like any other guy
And maybe then I'll know
Why do narcissists just lie.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 08:52 AM

By the way, you quoted the Einstein in two separate posts. The first time, you failed to attribute it, presumably hoping we'd think it was your wisdom. My response to that was dismissive of your general demeanour down the weeks, months and years, not of the substantive, which, as I indicated later, I largely concur with. Instead of calling me names, perhaps you should try to be a little more straightforward?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 09:11 AM

And you bit nastily didn't you.
Don't expect silence
to your nonsense
in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 09:30 AM

I expect more convoluted nonsense. Anyway, enough for now. I have soup going cold.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 09:59 AM

Well Steve, as you seem to be a Holocaust denying, white supremacist troll with no sense of humour I suppose I should ignore you but, for some reason, I don't seem to pick up on that. What I do see is Donuel who, when faced with a point he cannot sensibly respond to starts to spout mystical nonsense, claiming it is either Dyslexia or his "special" way of seeing the world. When that is shown up for the complete bollocks it is, the personal attacks start.

For the third time in as many days, I can only suggest that we ignore the tantrums. They will either stop or he will get stopped eventually.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 10:19 AM

And we don't want to make him poorly, do we? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 10:56 AM

I went into Therapeutic hypnosis for the mysteries, not the mysticism.
Little did I know it would lead to big bucks recruitment but ethics made me say no.
Careful with the defamation or I'll sue you for 100,000 dollhairs.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:07 AM

Please, Dog, make it stop…

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:07 AM

A-a-and…100!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:21 AM

That you would think I am handicapped and seek to make fun of it shows the kind of low-life yahoos you are. I don't think being a dog hater and a magic fanatic are handicaps, but they are eye-rolling.
I hold the members of this social media forum with high respect except the usual suspects.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:24 AM

Here's a simple hint and tip:

Buy a large box of Maltesers. Forget you bought them for a year. Make sure they're three months out of date before opening. Result: a box full of chewy ones. Nirvana!

(This has happened to us in the last fifteen minutes...)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:29 AM

Does it work with a box of magic mushrooms?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:49 AM

Only if you're a fun guy, so it would work for us, er, "usual suspects" but not for....


Oh, never mind... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:53 AM

May your next cruise have a plumbing breakdown and a Noro virus outbreak.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 12:01 PM

The abuse has progressed to wishing harm on people. My my, what petulance!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 01:12 PM

Hey, Dave, a thousand Asian curses on anyone who wishes harm on other people!


Er...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 01:34 PM

You thought this was an argument, no its abuse.
Know what cheers me up and not feel this is all about abuse?
A sing-along...Everybody out there at work or home Lets sing along;
Why are there so many songs about mem'ries
and whats on the other side
mem'ries are visions but only illusions
and mem'ries have nothing to hide
so we've been told and some choose to believe it,
I know their wrong wait and see
someday you'll find it the mem'rie connection
the lovers the screamers and me.
all of us under its spells
we know that its probably tragic

Have you been half asleep?
and have you heard voices
You've heard them calling your name
Is this the sweet sound ?
that calls the old seniors
the voice might be one and the same
I've heard it too many times to ignore it
Its something that might come to be
someday day you'll find it
the right diagnosis
End stage Alzhiemers to be
la da da dee dum dum da lalee lee la loo.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 01:40 PM

"Please, Dog, make it stop…"

Do you mean "Please! Doggerel! Make it stop!"

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 01:53 PM

Repeating yourself is the first symptom.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 02:29 PM

The next symptom can be recipe mistakes but from what I see here you should seriously get checked out like Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 04:55 PM

Nigel Slater produces lovely recipes and I have several of his books.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 23 - 12:30 PM

The broadcaster and food critic does not sound like our Nigel who said he was in the health field and does not present as gay.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 23 - 12:52 PM

Wanna make a big thing of that?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 23 - 01:04 PM

My favourite curse is "May the hole in your arse heal up"

Arabic I believe

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 05:55 AM

I started this to simplify particle physics and cosmology but the intellectuals from the UK reduced the topic to assholes

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 06:12 AM

Well this is how you started to "simplify" things for us:

"You almost have to suspend belief in some things like gravity since there is no observational evidence for the graviton. Waves yes, but no trace of quanta packets of energy. Also, questions like why, can often not be answered. Problems that can't be solved require a new approach.
So here goes...Basically, there are two buckets of stuff, one has matter and the other bucket has force carriers. There are six kinds of electrons and sixteen kinds of quarks. The other buck has particles we call force carriers which are phons of the electrodynamic force. Gravitons are thought to be the force carrier of gravity, The strong nuclear force has carriers called gluons which I think have eight gluons and the weak nuclear force has three carriers. That's four fundamental forces. Yep we are looking for a fifth but it is inconclusive so far."

I'm afraid that this attempt to "simplify" things would have had your lecture theatre emptied within minutes as your students headed out to find some headache pills. Migraine in the case of the highlighted sentence.

So don't blame us!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 23 - 12:46 PM

Simply put two Germans Haber and Bosch, in 1910 made it possible to expand the population from 1.6 billion to what it is today. They found a way to break triple-bonded N2 gas into a form (ammonia) that plants could use. If not for their innovation you might not be here today due to starvation. But that is totally uncertain.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 23 - 02:53 PM

Well it was hardly a saintly achievement, was it? Ammonia thus manufactured was used to make explosives in WW1, and its use in agriculture, to which you allude, has caused soil degradation and pollution on a huge scale of land, rivers, lakes and oceans. Oxides of nitrogen are serious atmospheric pollutants which are in part attributable to ammonia production. You could claim that it increased world food production but you can't claim that it improved food quality. Quite the opposite, and its environmental impact was and is devastating. So there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 23 - 05:41 PM

True, you can blow things up or grow food or both. Even C-4 is nitrogen derived. Germany made a rainbow of new colors out of hydrocarbons in coal but they also invented Mustard gas.
Survivors in London owe their pensions to Werner Von Braun for his advances in rocketry. They even helped educate Einstien but chased him out of Germany but that's not a simple story.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 11:04 AM

"Look children, see the pretty red tide on our shores"?

Subject: RE: BS: keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 10:38 PM

I'm here for fun. Steve is here for adulation but can't get no satisfaction andhe tries andhe tries...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 06:14 AM

That is a rock-solid troll post by any definition of "troll" you'd care to adopt.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 12:32 PM

Just a response to your (contribution)

Now back to cosmology:
The very small does reflect the random potential
and luck in life but little else. The universe at large has many more similarities to life and anthropomorphic comparisons.
Earth rotates once every 24 hours lately, It used to be faster.
Venus rotates so slowly its day is slower than its year.
Life on Earth has adjusted itself to the 24 hour schedule and even to its slower seasons. The Universe resembles the concepts of time we do on a very strange way. The early embryonic universe saw no light like we do then the age of light began. In a very long time, the starlight will fade to darkness leaving only black holes. It is one very long day in the light but darkness will return when the stars run out out of fuel and black holes eat most of the remnants. What comes after that may be a quantum event that begins a new big bang but we don't really know. Somewhere there is the oldest black hole and we don't yet know what or how it formed, but its there. It is like finding our first grey hair a sign of our impending death. Other anthropomorphic comparisons can be made even between gravity and new creation. Eary man has been making these comparisons for a long time. Many religious texts explore these.
Today we are asking the web telescope to answer more of our questions.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 04:51 PM

More nonsensical verbiage from you is a blatant attempt to distract from the fact that you TROLLED me earlier today. Well that doesn't work for me, I'm afraid. You are an absolute disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 07:05 AM

You poor dear you are so victimized in your own delusions.

Since we are made of and by the universe, it is only natural to see the similarities of life to some universal truths.
"We are made of star stuff"

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 08:30 AM

As you know the universe is not just expanding it is accelerating which means there is a whole lot of nothing in its future just like the lifespan of an organism.

Subject: RE: BS: keep it honest
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 09:00 AM

In the past, I have been grateful for some of the people and things that Steve introduced to me. Christopher Hitchins comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 09:04 AM

"it is accelerating"

No it isn't, Mr cosmologist. Its expansion is accelerating.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 11:15 AM

Mr. Hitchins was always the contrarian with elegance and humor.
Steve is always the contrarian.
Still it is good to know he at least knows what I talk about at times.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 11:45 AM

Yes I do, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 01:00 PM

Such is the irreconcilable differences between the past fact-based mind and the ironic mind, the linear mind and the dimensional mind. We know a bird flies best with two wings than one.

Socrates did not leave any writing but lets pretend he did exist.
He supposedly said an educated mind knows how little it knows.
Today the human species knows less and less about more and more of the universe. Quantum mechanics can measure more of the tiny but we don't know why it does, We have tools to change DNA yet we don't know where we can reliably cut and paste to cure disease however using half of it (RNA) we have made some great new vaccines, cosmology is in a quandary about galaxy formation black holes and inflation etc. We are doing better than superstition mysticism and the supernatural but there is even more we don't know with our new scientific discoveries. I expect that the questions about nothingness will reveal many mysteries such as zero point energy and other concepts yet unknown or misunderstood.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 01:51 PM

I have had a question about entropy and our universe and whether it gets reset with a new big bang expression of our universe.

We know things tend to "go down hill" or become more chaotic toward a lower energy state so that there may come a day of the big rip and disassembly of neutrons and protons. Could this lower energy state still end up capable of a repeat big bang since energy can not be created or destroyed?

It is guaranteed we will never know. It is not often I submit something will not happen but evolution of our species will probably not extend into such a far-reaching near infinity.

The universe is stranger than we know or even that we can ever know

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 01:57 PM

The biggest restraint on discoveries is that research is only where the money is. There is a lot of Cancer research because that is where the money is.
I am only tangentially associated with research grants. While great leeway
is offered there are few grants for pure research. The discoveries made along the way come from data that doesn't fit and is unexpected. Other times scientists
have to reverse engineer into the future to get to a needed result that did not exist before almost like star trek sci-fi. The mysteries are fun to me so I can fill them with my dreams.
The scientist is bound to the data alone and has to restrain themselves from conclusions. Another barrier to discovery besides money is a compartmentalization
that keeps more remarkable findings away from the public and scientific sectors.
There are other political barriers to research. A government shutdown can wipe out a 10 year project by interrupting a process in health and life sciences.
What a waste. Agreeing on language and definitions are also barriers. There are 40 or 50 definitions of life. Intelligence has many more definitions
There are sociological barriers regarding shaming a scientist for going in a atypical direction. THOSE that ignore that social shaming by exploring beyond the
status quo do well and often lead to new companies offering new services, processes, and materials. The social shamers are practically a cult.
REMOVING these barriers is not likely but I do imagine what may have advanced without such barriers. Like a dream of a technocrat, this imagined utopia has
no limits.
I have no contact with astronomical or physics research but I have become aware of the greatest successes and failures. One failure was the Antarctic
observatory for exploring the early inflation of the universe. They don't talk about that one but we all know about The Webb and the LHC.
.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 05:51 PM

Focus.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 07:26 PM

I was focused on barriers to research and by extension - discoveries.

If you would like to focus on a science that can only be studied here on Earth it would be your fav. Biology.
I found a scientist that was experimenting on life that was 3.8 billion years old. What she learned is fascinating and far from simple.
In fact even you may find it challenging to follow the miraculous chemistry that turned into life.
interview regarding ancient DNA secrets

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 07:36 PM

Studying the origin of life is rather ambitious.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 08:53 PM

I followed the "miraculous chemistry that turned into life" in an essay that I wrote fifty years ago at Imperial College. I still have that essay. I got an A for it. Had I referred to "miraculous chemistry" in that essay I'm guessing that a C+ might have been mine.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 09:22 PM

I'm up to 153 definitions for life. We might have some agreement that panpsychism offers a virtual supernatural view of the building blocks of life from particles to chemicals. The arrogant conceit of our POV may be a barrier to even looking at this panpsychism possibility. We are a part of the universe seeking to know itself. As such it still needs a look, particularly at the two seemingly impossible steps life took in its early evolution.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jan 23 - 08:12 PM

Gosh. Whatever...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 23 - 09:31 PM

Bertrand Russel chimes in this discussion

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 04:56 PM

I don't make mistakes :) Mistakes made me. Failures and failed experiments are countless. But each one has some instructive quality.

It is said the early universe entered an inflation phase. I still prefer to see it as time distortion from immense mass concentration and not the status quo explanations.

Subject: RE: BS: This shit ain't simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 01:47 PM

Most of you have heard that a search for quantum gravity has been unsuccessful. I theorize that relativity and quantum mechanics are already linked but trying to quantize gravity is the wrong approach.
They are already linked with wormholes and quantum entanglement. What I believe is really missing are dimensions we can't see.
I have seen other dimensions ( I think )when two nebulous globes passed through brick walls. Only me and my cat saw them. The other dimension could be a torus intruding in 3D space and not 2 globes. For example, in
a two-dimensional space, a globe passing through would look like a small circle getting bigger and then smaller. If space had a shape like a helix a straight line would not be the shortest route between 2 points but a spiral would. All orbits form a helix in time and of course, there is even DNA. The 3-D space we see is flat but higher dimensions probably curve.

So my ideas about space is about geometries we can't see. The dimensions we are used to can be stacked up to form the next higher dimension. Stack two dimensions up to get After time, the 5th dimension becomes very difficult to visualize unless you think of
displacement as a key. It is easy to think I am crazy but Brian Greene is starting to consider my way of thinking.
Brian Greene

My idea about black holes creating a singularity that forms a wormhole and then generates space from mass and energy is unique but even Penrose shows how black holes transmutes mass into space time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2EtTE9Czzo

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 02:09 PM

Many years ago a respected astrophysicist postulated that ladies with large bottoms cause the earth to rotate. This theory has not yet been refuted. Makes you think Dunnit...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 03:07 PM

Brian Greene is American. Dave's bottom theory is UK?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 03:28 PM

A Brian may be involved...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 03:32 PM

Then of course there's Hutton's Arse. Best geology book ever written.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 23 - 03:35 PM

Perhaps the great living genius is Ed Witten. He is up to 11 - 27 dimensions. Trying to grok 5 dimensions is where I am.
Do check out the Brian Grene interview, it is the most intimate interview I have heard him do.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 09:19 AM

We can sense and feel the 4th dimension of time. It is a different kind of direction. Pointing at a clock isn't a time direction.
Other than looking at the math of wormholes or seeing spooky action at a distance I don't sense or feel a fifth dimension but my brain evolved from my ancestors who had no advantages from a fifth dimension sense.
I can conceive of a dimension that wraps around space in a way that makes every point in space adjacent to one another regardless of distance. The LHC is looking for another dimension by trying to find an energy loss when a particle goes into another dimension. So far no luck.

In an effort to prevent this thread like threads about Neuroscience and the Human Brain, from being closed by Steve Shaw by his use of nonsense and swearing, I wish to add that The Liars Culture most often masks their lies as entertainment. These tactics are counter to other values such as wisdom or simply being a decent human being. He will claim innocence and compound his lies which is fine since I believe in free speech, not NO SPEECH. The current war to not teach history and heinous lies for entertainment or power is important enough to call out in any form.
The Liars Culture is not my kind of TLC.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 09:44 AM

I thought this thread was about keeping things simple?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 10:39 AM

Donuel
Are you on some forums where people understand you straight away and maybe even agree with you and expand your points?
Could you post a sample link?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 11:28 AM

There are hundreds of sites like Quora which is on the lay side. The academic sites require math skills.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 12:55 PM

Best yet listen to the foremost cosmologists and astrophysicists on you tube in interviews or presentations. My leading favorites are Brian Greene, Roger Penrose and Witten. Lex Fridman interviews many of them on youtube. For free lessons on cosmology check out this guy PBS HE IS ENTERTAINING AND FASCINATING. He's older now and is held in esteem.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 01:02 PM

In the UK this cosmologist has many fans check it out

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 30 Jan 23 - 10:30 PM

Donuel
Could you suggest some websites where we could read and hear from good cosmologists and astrophysicists please?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 11:40 AM

O'DOWD is a cosmologist who may be your age and appears on 'PBS Spacetime' and more or less teaches in a wonderful way while exploring fundamentals.

Starting with the noble prize winner Roger Penrose on youtube will get you to see many other related cosmologists but the more you know the more you might understand the top guys and gals.

I am more of an audience than a contributor. The universe is awesome and the more people who learn about it the more we can come together.
We all tend to play games by simple rules. Science can show us bigger landscapes and perhaps we can become less fractionalized people and become united even in new mysteries. At least I hope so.

Having an opinion based on evidence is your right and privilege. It shows you are thinking beyond being spoon fed.

I believe the more we learn about the universe the more we can understand what is within us since the universe made us.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 12:24 PM

I am at the point where the tiniest observation of 'is it a particle or a wave?' is also true of the entire universe as well - in a duality that we can not yet fully understand. The obvious answer is that it is two things at once. That only seems to be true in our human consciousness.
I am a panpsychist who believes our consciousness is simply information inspecting itself and being aware of itself. This is true of all information and has no cut off point. That means all things have a consciousness of varying complexity.

There are fundamentals and emergent complexities but they each have their charm, delight and consternation in my information stream consciousness.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 01:04 PM

The more I learn the more I realise how little I know!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 03:44 PM

From wiki.

One criticism of panpsychism is that it cannot be empirically tested.A corollary of this criticism is that panpsychism has no predictive power. Tononi and Koch write: "Besides claiming that matter and mind are one thing, [panpsychism] has little constructive to say and offers no positive laws explaining how the mind is organized and works."

John Searle has alleged that panpsychism's unfalsifiability goes deeper than run-of-the-mill untestability: it is unfalsifiable because "It does not get up to the level of being false. It is strictly speaking meaningless because no clear notion has been given to the claim."

Which is what I think too.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 05:18 PM

You will only think you know what is impossible based on the past.
Knowledge has a way of proving the chronic nay-sayer wrong over time.

I on the other hand must go with experiential evidence for now.
Things change although the universe has a few enduring fundamental features/forces.

I like your polite side for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 05:27 PM

Experiential evidence isn't evidence, except to you. It's a claim. Do note that your claim is unfalsifiable. That's a way of saying that it isn't good science.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 10:33 PM

50 years ago Prof. Hawking said by the year 2000 we should have a theory of everything in astrophysics. Carl Sagan wasn't sure if there was enough matter in the universe to slow the expansion of space and recollapse the universe. Well, since then we discovered dark matter and that space is expanding AND accelerating.
They were both wrong but they were right about other things.
The future holds surprises we do not expect.
At this time I am both wrong and right. IN TIME SO ARE YOU.
I'm willing to reason it out even when there is not currently a single person who can prove what consciousness is.
We do however experience it.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 11:22 PM

I think it is admirable to learn of and explore many different world views. There is not just one way to view the universe.
An old fashioned accepted truth involved particles. However,
that concept is now positively not real.
Knowing is not the way you know it, but I know you will not understand.
Knowing about geometric unity is just as valid as field theories as well as a multiplex of perspectives.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 01:48 AM

In the debunking community there is a tendency to stigmatize a subject of inquiry and the researchers and witnesses or even attempt to harm or destroy those individuals. For example despite hundreds of thousands of witnesses and indirect evidence, the people involved are singled out for derision. This is actually an impediment to science as well as being mean and arrogant to witnesses. The UAP Navy introduction is attempting to get away from that kind of stigma and punishment of the witnesses and those who try to have real inquiry into the subject. Likewise in politics there is a mean spirited push to insult and accuse people of things which requires private detectives and a defensive posture. Most good people who could serve honorably do not wish to be subjected to such treatment.

Instead of knee jerk debunking techniques that discourage research, an open mind will enhance discovery. We don't need new technology or live on Mars more than going beyond Einsteinian paradigms so that a new science might be able to see a path forward to faster than light travel. Brian Greene has found a way to apply faster than light messaging. Going beyond Einstien is a promising direction that is not fully supported and in fact is considered dangerous and foolish by the status quo debunkers.

The power to silence ideas with bullying or gas lighting people of inquiry is attempted shaming. I do not want people scared or ridiculed and as a result withhold experience or data.
You should reserve your debunking efforts to Aunt Tilda's belief in ghosts, not ghosts in the machine. There is bunk or bunko artists. That you can see the difference between those selling nonsense for money and those who merely theorize. There is no room for ridicule and mocking as in the past. In the interest of science people should feel maximally safe recounting the unusual. IT IS IMPORTANT to know where the cutting edge of theoretical physics truly is. Getting there is not helped by ridicule and recrimination. Perhaps most important is to declassify what has been established.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 02:04 AM

The Curious Cases of Rutherford & Fry is a programme on BBC Radio 4. All of the episodes appear to be available to listen to again.

A recent one might be of interest to some of you here.

The Case of the Blind Mind's Eye

Close your eyes and think of a giraffe. Can you see it? I mean, *really* see it - in rich, vivid detail? If not - you aren’t alone!

We’ve had scores of messages from listeners who report having a ‘blind mind’s eye’. They don’t see mental images at all and they want to know why. Jude from Perth wants to know what makes her brain different, and Diane from Scotland wonders whether it affectes her ability to remember family holidays.

Our sleuths learn that this is a condition recently termed ‘aphantasia’. They meet the chap who came up with the name, Professor Adam Zeman, a neurologist from the University of Exeter, and quiz him on the brain mechanisms behind this mystery.

Professor Julia Simner - a psychologist who, herself, doesn’t see mental images - shares the surprising research into how aphants differ slightly from others in a range of cognitive skills. We also hear about the world class artists and animators who can’t visualise - but can create beautiful, imaginary worlds.

++

Philosophy professor Fiona Macpherson from the University of Glasgow, deepens the mystery: perhaps this largely hidden phenomenon is behind some of the most profound disagreements in the history of psychology. Our mental experiences are all very different - maybe that’s why thinkers have come up with such different theories about how our minds work.

++


Search for the “VVIQ” or Vividness of Visual Imagery questionnaire to take the test yourself. Look for “The Perception Census” to take part in this massive online study of perceptual variation. And look up the 'Aphtantasia Network' if you're curious to find out more.

Presenters: Hannah Fry and Adam Rutherford
Contributors: Professor Adam Zeman, Professor Julia Simner, Professor Fiona Macpherson
Producer: Ilan Goodman

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 07:35 AM

Thanks for the detail. I only heard it in passing
btw NPR and MSNBC reported today that the Pentagon announced they shot down a small object 40,000 over Alaska shores. It was called a UFO since it was unidentified. I don't think small prop planes ever get that high.

My mental Giraffe looks pretty good in color and facial features including large eyes, hair, and odd horns. Its bodily features are more challenging to picture in detailed contrast to the face, neck, and mane.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 08:14 AM

While listening to the podcast I realize I am not a total synthete but I can call upon synthesesia like perception as In turning music into colors or turning smells into tastes. Geometry was always visual. Also, I have no angels or devils.
My dreams are not always in color but as a kid I watched a lot of black and white TV. Especially the Twilight zone. I was fortunate to have Rod Serling as a neighbor for a short time. I would walk his Irish Setters at Cayuga Lake

This whole concept of phantasic imagery could apply to research on Schizophrenia where the ability goes out of control.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 09:06 AM

Over here a similar broadcast series is called Radio Lab on NPR.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 05:50 AM

"In the debunking community there is a tendency to stigmatize a subject of inquiry and the researchers and witnesses or even attempt to harm or destroy those individuals. For example despite hundreds of thousands of witnesses and indirect evidence, the people involved are singled out for derision."

Well apart from the unwarranted hyperbole there, it's ironic that you debunk the debunkers far more assertively than the debunkers debunk you and your ilk. Good science shrugs its shoulders when presented with flights of imagination that are promoted without a shred of evidence. There's generally no attempt to harm or destroy unless there's a whiff of conspiracy theory afoot, so it's improper to cast yourself as some kind of victim. If you have an outside-of-the-box notion, it's up to you to kindle interest via the very simple step of presenting evidence that IS evidence. Witness is never evidence unless it's honestly corroborated, and I have no idea what "indirect evidence" is supposed to mean. You forget that good science is science that can be well-communicated. I dare say there are some good scientists who live in their own bubble of obscurantism, and they need help to get their ideas out. But there are bad scientists who like to wrap their shaky ideas up in deliberate and dodgy over-complexity and mysticism. If the cap fits, old chap...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 08:19 AM

This week it has been reported that three UNIDENTIFIED objects have been shot down. That is the extent of it. This is a departure from the previous policy. With a lack of evidence. ignoring the known realities would be a foolish plan. The eyes-closed method, insistence on silence, or the shaming of witnesses is the absurd policy of the past.
Let's hope we/you learn to do better.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 08:35 AM

That's got nothing to do with what we're talking about (why am I surprised...), and, what's more, the balloons have their own thread.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 08:38 AM

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

(Donuel Rumsfeld)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 08:45 AM

"This week it has been reported that three UNIDENTIFIED objects have been shot down."

At the moment they unidentified. They might well remain so as it will be hard to locate any remaining wreckage.

My money is on it being a Thunderbird.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 09:14 AM

"Witness is never evidence unless it's honestly corroborated"

In the history of science witness tends to lead and science follows with a explanation (or not as the case might be).

Sometimes science can dismiss witness evidence as being nonsense. Just ask Ernst Chladni.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 09:17 AM

There are some knowns. One was cylindrical, one was octagonal and Canada has not disclosed the shape of one that was shot down over the Yukon. A fourth radar signature vanished from radar over Minnesota.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 09:46 AM

You failed to take into account my HONESTLY-corroborated caveat. Piltdown Man was dishonestly corroborated. Lourdes and Fatima were "corroborated" by witnesses loaded down by confirmation bias, peer pressure or whatever else made them useless witnesses. There are no golden eagles in Cornwall or anywhere near, but suppose I claim that a golden eagle came to my bird table. Like Donuel, I could shout abuse at anyone who ridiculed me. Or I could present the real evidence, which would mean HONEST corroboration. A couple of proven unphotoshopped pics. Co-witnesses from the highest echelons of the RSPB. Related sightings close by. Sure, science needs lateral thinking, thinking outside the box, flights of imagination. It all helps to move science forward. But only evidence can put it on the right path. For over 99% of human existence, the sun went round the earth and the earth was flat. Newton indulged in alchemy. I've posted here several times about my sighting of ball lightning in Essex in the early 80s. I know what I saw and I know it was what I said it was. I couldn't find a single other witness. I don't require anyone else to believe me and I say that every time. The fact that I do say that has meant that I've never been called a bad scientist, been laughed at or been ridiculed for saying it. I think there's a lesson there.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 09:50 AM

I do not use Steve's snarky rhetoric that is intended to injure people and possible POVs. Raindog presents alternatives and facts in a reasonable and respectful manner. That's what I have been talking about.

Like my friend Allen J Hynek, I began as a skeptic but as decades of indirect evidence mounted I changed my tune, My experience has led me to far different honest conclusions.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 10:25 AM

I still do not have an explanation for the nebulous balls of light that passed through brick walls and out the interior wall. I only know for sure that others have had similar experiences. When I touched it I would have expected a shock if it was ball lightning. In the spirit of objectivity, I had jumped on a sofa and was not grounded.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 10:41 AM

Here is another rhetorical trick Steve does to me;
" For over 99% of human existence, the sun went round the earth and the earth was flat."
quote: From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 09:46 AM

It is not a misquote, it is merely taken out of context.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 10:41 AM

I have no intention of injuring anyone. What a daft thing to say.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 10:43 AM

Rhetorical trick my fat bottom. It's just that you didn't get what I said!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 10:47 AM

"I only know for sure that others have had similar experiences."

You only know for sure that others have reported to have had similar experiences. They might have been similar to yours but then again they might not.

Back when Chladni was gathering experiences, he did not live in an age when people were posting this, that and the other. The witness was less likely to be influenced by previous reports. If anyone sees anything unusual these days they might well search online for previous reports of something similar.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 11:52 AM

Yes, I spotted that "know for sure" too. On such a basis is dodgy science often predicated...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 12:44 PM

I concede that similar reports are very similar but do not explain the phenomenon. It is common for me to make predictions. I recently got my super bowl prediction wrong but I'm sure no one cares except Steve.
He thinks my predictions are prophesying and rails against them as vigorously as against a 19th-century medium contacting someone's dear deceased relative for money. No one cares about my posts, nor do people's reality revolve around my opinion.

I think Steve protests too much as if belief in any of my remarks is antithetical to scientific principles he guards like a self-appointed white knight. Nevermind the symptoms of the narcissist.

I believe the most favorite topic for him would be the "I believe in Steve" thread.

I also believe that his intention is degradation in my opinion.
Its a sadism thing.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 03:56 PM

"I think Steve protests too much"

In light of your post, that strikes me as being not only ludicrously ironic but also highly amusing.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 06:15 PM

By way of a small diversion: the Super Bowl comment had me wondering which sport it was. Is it, I mused, that glorified rounders-for-chaps, or perhaps that version of netball for seven-footers? Why no, it's American "football," a game in which padded men beat each other up at regular intervals after someone has thrown the ball along lines of them, with scantily-dressed young beauties leaping up and down on the touchline with bunches of tinsel in their hands. As a chap who has just revelled in Liverpool's convincing (and much-needed) victory over Everton in the Merseyside derby, why would I have concerned myself with your Super Bowl prediction!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 08:29 PM

Another reason that I support panpsychism is that it supports legal rights for intelligent animals.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 08:44 PM

I support fairies in the bottom of the garden because they're prettier than goblins and leprechauns.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 09:24 PM

History supports the idea that some radical ideas become mainstream in 100 years. For example; should Women be allowed to vote?
Should animals be considered co-creators of life on Earth and have legal rights?
If corporations now have the legal rights of a person why not whales, dolphins, primates and others?
US laws ban cruelty but does not convey rights to animals. We know how Steve feels about dogs but we wouldn't want him involved in this question if we love dogs, or any conscious life for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 23 - 04:47 AM

See varmints thread. I love dogs but I strongly dislike a lot of their owners, which, round here, is most of them. They let them bark, they let them shit all over our streets and they let them charge around out of control. Nowt wrong with the actual individual dog. You misrepresent yourself here all the the time but kindly refrain from misrepresenting me.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 23 - 05:12 AM

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 08:44 PM

I support fairies in the bottom of the garden because they're prettier than goblins and leprechauns. quote S Shaw
I prefer Gnomes.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 23 - 05:21 AM

Careful now, Dick! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 23 - 09:26 AM

Run for office with a 'no-shit' campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 23 - 12:04 PM

Well, as we keep saying, Steve. You have your Donuel and I have my Dick.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 23 - 12:23 PM

"Run for office with a 'no-shit' campaign."

Hmm. Something you'd never manage...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 23 - 08:33 AM

The issue of animal rights remains, despite the class clown trolls.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 23 - 09:04 AM

Your repetitive mentions of animal rights lack focus. We have fairly strict laws in this country about who can or can't do what to wild animals. There are rules regarding animal welfare standards in agriculture which some of us would like to see tightened and which, as with humans, are often breached. But we can't discuss it unless we know what you're talking about, and you did raise it out of context and out of the blue. Instead of calling people clowns for not responding to your apparent sudden bee-in-bonnet, why not tell us what you're on about and give us something to chew over?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 23 - 09:45 AM

Simply animal rights law beyond anti-cruelty statutes.

I'm perfectly capable of discussing it myself. An intro;
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/happy-the-elephant-lessons-for-the-future-of-animal-rights-law.html



Cage free eggs and an end to veal cruelty is also catching on.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 23 - 11:58 AM

199 posts and I am still none the wiser. Someone else can have 200 :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 23 - 12:31 PM

I will never go to a zoo. I understand that we may need to breed captive animals that are threatened, injured or on the brink of extinction, but animals on display for entertainment, not for me, thanks. Even my cat is free-range.

Cage eggs are becoming a thing of the past on the whole, though a third of our eggs still come from hens in "enriched cages," which are bigger (but still awful) than the pre-2012 battery cages, now banned. Barn eggs are common still, and from what I've seen around here "free-range" is a concept that needs a serious rethink. I know one place that has huge barns with pop-holes and I never see the hens in their outside enclosure. Their eggs are still sold as free-range. In farming, the concept of "what the eye doesn't see" is heavily guarded.

Tell us about your US chickens. We don't want them here...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 23 - 01:39 PM

Clearly not breed injured animals. Just fix 'em!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 23 - 08:26 AM

Our chickens LIVE IN THE HOME OF THE BRAVE and have survived mass incarceration, fentanyl, Covid, mass shootings, insurrection, white national racism, and TRUMPISM. They wouldn't be caught dead in the UK which is a very silly island. We even protect them from UFOs and shoot down any galactic immigrants that dare incursion into the land of the American chicken. OUR BRAVE CHICKENS RULE.

Our chickens are not even afraid of a ten-foot sea rise from a glacial ice shelf that is about to break off of Antarctica and melt.
I recommend chicken life vests and galoshes for lying areas.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Feb 23 - 01:28 PM

With apologies for crossing the threads ....

> I recommend chicken life vests and galoshes for lying areas.

Do you mean "low lying areas" or Mar-a-Lago :-) ?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 23 - 08:52 PM

We have many low lieing areas. In DC we have Foggy Bottom.
Not to be confused with Mississippi's Soggy Bottom Boys.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 23 - 09:00 PM

Soggy Bottom Boys

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 23 - 05:56 AM

https://www.livescience.com/jwst-early-universe-discoveries



The Webb telescope is looking at the early universe.
It looks similar to now except for green peas.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 23 - 08:56 AM

This morning while pondering dark energy accelerating the expansion of the universe I wondered if in the immense quantity of space, virtual particles that pop into existence could play a role if half of those particles are negative matter particles. Negative matter would repel matter.
Virtual particles are short-lived but at any given moment in the entire expansion of space, there would have to be an increasing amount that would exist.

All we have to do is detect negative matter virtual or otherwise :)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 23 - 09:01 AM

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg12517084-200-the-power-of-negative-matter/

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 23 - 09:10 AM

it seems others consider this postualtion

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Feb 23 - 03:58 PM

Our models for the early universe are wrong according to JWT.
The Universe lit up much earlier than we thought.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 23 - 09:52 AM

advice- Don't be afraid of the space between your dreams and reality.
If you can dream it - there is a better chance it can be done.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 23 - 10:50 AM

So you can choose what to dream about? Hmm...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 10:30 AM

Narcissism is not arrogance, it is the complete opposite of arrogance.
There is so much a feeling of incompetence and inadequacy in the self that the defensive structure around that becomes dominated by a rocket-fueled envy.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 11:01 AM

I have given myself permission to dream about a subject and have experienced that subject in my dreams. Emergent knowledge of the complex comes in many forms. Part of that process is realizing the many things we can not know. For people who can not think in mental imagery must rely on language alone which seems like more of an imitation of reality than the mental picture of the subject. Of course the language alone person would see this differently. I often can see a clear picture of a person's face long before I can recall the name of that person. This would not be the experience of the language only person.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 11:25 AM

Ergo I can not differentiate names on a site like this easily.

Subject: RE: BS: Evil, keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 12:07 PM

Bill D often points out the evil people can do based upon specious logic.
Even Hitler or Putin have done evil based on what they saw as beneficial to their own constituents or themselves.
But there is the more common everyday evil by average people based upon ignorance. In this sense I suppose the concept of we are all sinners is true. Original sin however is nonsense.
I believe it is an unintentional evil when people actually do not know or know the wrong things. These people are capable of redemption.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 12:24 PM

Do you ever wonder why you can do 13 posts in a row with just one little interruption? I doubt whether you'd want to hear my theory...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 12:36 PM

Small bits makes for better digestion.

The evil of a Trump or Hitler is from envy and a wish to bring others down to their level.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 12:42 PM

When Hitler was told in childhood he was not good enough and later Jewish art instructors and collectors told him he was not good enough he had to blame others and eventually carried out his evil based on envy and revenge.

This is a recurring theme with Trump and I suspect mass shooters.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 12:52 PM

Keep digging.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 01:03 PM

One can see a Napolean complex in Putin as well as a loss of empire in his lifetime. His background is solely counterintelligence and belittling his perceived enemy. He will never admit to envy.
So you may also begin to see evil as a response to envy and feelings of poor self-worth.

A healthy feeling of self worth is a potential for achievement in thoughts and deeds. The mere conscious mind fooling itself with delusions of grandeur is unhealthy. The unhealthy expression of envy has been seen in the personalities of serial killers to politicians.
The other route to evil is the psychopath devoid of empathy.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 01:49 PM

We all have a choice to nuture envy and the malevolent wrongs that were done to us but it leads to more destruction. Nurturing the positive like gratitude or humility leads to growth. How many different ways have you heard the same thing?

Envy writ large is malignant narcissism. The overwhelming majority of social destruction is carried out by narcissists not psychopaths. Another misconception is that narcissists don't care about other people. If anything they care too much in comparison to themselves.

These are not black or white issues but contain plenty of grey areas.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 02:09 PM

We are a rational species but emotions can trump logic and leave people swimming in a toxic soup of feelings and beliefs. One of the things I have seen the most is how people can be dragged down by their feelings in a feedback loop of destruction.

Breaking that cycle with a simple application of levity or good feelings was my job for more than a decade. It sounds simple but it is a cooperative experience and people are different.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 05:50 PM

One hears about the needs of mental health but it has become obscenely difficult. Then the help available is often formulaic and within the confines of insurance limitations. If the experience is real human interaction you are probably on the right track.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 07:03 PM

Of course medicine can shorten the process of mental health healing.
As I have said before magic mushrooms often aid with flexibility in thinking. The 'what if' experience is an indication of a more open mind.

It treats alcoholism, OCD, PTSD and as I have seen, far more beyond the scope of mere disorders. It is not without side effects, I have seen some people vomit. A good intent is also beneficial. It has a candy coating of being an overall pleasant and joyous experience unlike ayahuasca or other visionary experiences that are more disorienting.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 07:13 PM

The unexamined life is not worth living. - Socrates

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 08:34 PM

You seriously need to stop pushing magic mushrooms. Your incredibly slack and irresponsible approach to this is astounding. Consuming the actual fungi means that you have no idea of the quantity of active ingredient you're taking in: the fungi contain highly variable amounts of psilocybin, even within the same species, and consuming the mushrooms in uncontrolled and unmeasured quantities simply adds to the slapdash and risky nature of the approach. It would be unobjectionable to discuss clinical trials of purified extracts of the drug, but no, with you it's always the mushrooms you advocate. And that doesn't begin to address the legality or otherwise of the thing you're so keen to promote. Your observations of the effects are not derived from properly controlled, large-scale trials, which is the only correct and responsible way of researching such things. I wouldn't be so unscientific as to suggest that if you indulge as much as you advocate, it could explain quite a lot, so I won't.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Helen
Date: 27 Feb 23 - 09:31 PM

'Magic mushroom' trial in WA could be the key to treating depression

Virtual reality plus psychedelics are being trialled in therapy. Are they effective?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 23 - 05:57 AM

Excellent. That's good, safe science, the very opposite of "Eat these! I've seen how much good they've done for some of my mates!"

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 23 - 06:17 AM

I have never discussed dosage before however safe and effective amounts range from micro-dosing to heroic levels. I am in good company as an advocate,
All the studies you claim have not been done, have been done over the last 50 years.
It has been 30 years since my last encounter with magic mushrooms.
Perhaps you want to claim it is addictive.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 23 - 06:23 AM

No, I just want to say that the only responsible approach to taking this as a medicine is after the active ingredient has been purified and trialled extensively in controlled doses. I'm all for it. That is the very opposite of what you persistently advocate, in your anarchic hippies-sixties style.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 23 - 06:27 AM

Novices could google 'How to Change Your Mind'.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 23 - 09:04 AM

The fact is that you are advocating the use of a substance that in many administrations is illegal to possess and/or use.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 23 - 09:19 AM

Nixon was not the Pope and got some things wrong on his schedule 1 drug list.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 23 - 09:52 AM

Besides, if your Kingdom had not reformed laws you would have been executed for treason regarding any number of your posts. My ancestors were not cowards nor am I.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 23 - 10:21 AM

I can't be the only one who noticed you are obsessive about control.
Its a good thing you are not in Big Pharma or the government.

Oregon has compromised and only allows legal ingestion of MM with the assistance of trained medical staff.

I prefer freedom.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 Feb 23 - 11:05 AM

> I prefer freedom.

Freedom includes the freedom to get it wrong, for unbounded values of "it". Responsibility is exercising the freedom to carry the can afterwards.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 23 - 11:27 AM

Responsibility means not promoting illegal substances on a public website. I can't keep it much simpler than that.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 23 - 05:53 AM

Promoting mental health is far more responsible than whinging about it and doing nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 23 - 06:56 AM

MaJoC the Filk, I agree. I believe infallibility does not exist,
not even on the fundamental Planck scale.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 23 - 07:43 AM

Promoting illegal drugs is doing nothing for mental health and everything for mental ill-health. Promoting research into novel substances, derived from plants and purified so as to be available in properly measured and trialled doses which may eventually prove to be efficacious is the only way forward. You're rather lucky that you don't live in a country in which you'd be arrested for posting about magic mushrooms the way you do.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 23 - 09:47 AM

whinge whinge whinge and do nothing except condemn and extort.
You are speaking from the corner of ignorance and no experience.
Ya know, grand old dinosaurs like you are usually old cops and Fox watchers over here. You obey orders without knowing why and your eyes are soaked in prejudice. To think yourself a liberal is a delusion.

Grand Old Dinosaurs think they are GOD.
An asteroid proved them wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 23 - 09:56 AM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 09:51 AM

':^/

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 11:16 AM

Gabriel and Bathsheba or is it Bathsheba and Gabriel?

I think we should be told.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 11:45 AM

Dunno, but as I've always really fancied Carey Mulligan can I be Gabriel??

(Go on - he can be Bathsheba - being a big girl's blouse he already halfway there, and Carey will have a bit of spare time...)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 06:09 PM

Beware of hair stylists named Delilah,

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 03:31 PM

There has been a reversal of the theory of axions being the building blocks of dark matter and going back to the notion that primordial black holes being the stuff of dark matter. The other mystery of dark energy pushing the universe outward is also black hole related. I say black holes can transmute mass into space but the consensus is that black holes can have a repellant effect. I prefer my idea.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 04:19 PM

Well there's a surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Mar 23 - 08:34 PM

I only know two people who have equations on their headstones. Newton and Maxwell. Today they are approximations set in stone. I wonder how big a headstone should be required to show Schwartchilds equations. Simplicity often seems to be at the heart of some things. Even a neutron is not infallible, it too will decay.
Now is the most wonderful time to be an astrophysicist. In 1920 it took a hundred years to sort out the new concept of general relativity; Today we have some faster shortcuts. In fact, new science is less focused on equations and more reliant on programs, algorithms, and geometry.
Current String Theory is a stepping stone that unites relativity and Quantum and gravity consistently. Eventually, we will be less wrong and more right as we go along.
The simplicity expressed everywhere in the universe seems to be symmetry and dualism. When intuition plays in this field of symmetry success is surprisingly correct or beautiful. It was Dirac who made equations that predicted anti-matter and negative energy.


Even visualizing extra dimensions gets easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgymNImxgaU

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 06:29 AM

> I wonder how big a headstone should be required to show Schwartchilds
> equations.

Depends whether the stonemason has a chisel that can do Flyspeck Three.

> Even a neutron is not infallible, it too will decay.

.... in about fifteen minutes when free, which is why they hide in nuclei. Protons are rather longer-lived (half-life at least 1.67×10³⁴ years, quoth Wikipedia, but for some reason proton decay's not yet been observed).

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 08:15 PM

About 15 years ago I started carrying on about black holes and that they seem to transmute mass into space, well...

WOO HOO! It is becoming an accepted paradigm that I now hear reported on NPR and my other haunts.

I never claimed to know the mechanism that delivers more space into space from inside a black hole which would account for dark energy and the acceleration of the expansion of the universe - BUT - I HAVE GOTTEN IT HALF RIGHT.

This process is not as secure as general relativity but it is finally on the lips of those in the know.15 years ago I could only find one guy in NZ who had similar insight - now its everywhere you look..
https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2023/02/19/are-black-holes-the-source-of-dark-energy/#:~:text=Black%20holes%20are%20the%20source,e

I am glad I persevered in this long time conundrum.

Well there is still the mystery of dark matter. Before you say 'even a blind squirrel can find a nut', Remember If I can hit a target with spacial thought so can nearly everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 08:22 PM

I first noticed a relationship between the acceleration rate and black hole increase in the universe and went from there. Kinda obvious now.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 08:27 PM

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/243114/scientists-find-first-evidence-that-black/

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 10:09 PM

I just finished hearing Science Friday on NPR about the 'new' black hole dark matter connection. To be fair they missed 2 essential points. One being that the recent Nobel Prize winner Roger Penrose has demonstrated how Black holes go beyond turning mass into energy and can actually transmute mass-energy into space energy. Second, They missed the correlation between an increase in black holes and an increase in the acceleration of more space.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Mar 23 - 03:11 PM

My black hole theory that now is about to revolutionize all of cosmology was so unintuitive that there was not a single person here who openly accepted its validity. Actually, Amos was the only person who did make a constructive comment regarding my cosmic pursuit. Only because of a recent observation of new SMBH growth has this confirmation happened in my lifetime. This hole in one is my one trick pony cosmically speaking.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 23 - 04:21 PM

You've got an ego bigger than my arse, that's for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Mar 23 - 06:52 AM

What is large is the time I devoted to this example of problem solving by other means. What is unique is how I posted every step along the way over 15 years or more by setting thoughts free to roam into an entirely unknown realm. I'm surprised your harumph did't take the form of ("anything interesting is certainly wrong".
Different people celebrate different things,

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Mar 23 - 10:43 AM

My black hole theory that now is about to revolutionize all of cosmology was so unintuitive that there was not a single person here who openly accepted its validity.

This is a music site, primarily aimed at traditional folk and blues. Most people here would have, at best, only a passing interest in cosmology, if they have interest at all in the subject.

Can I ask you, Donuel, have any of your musings appeared in a reputable scientific publication where they have been subject to peer review and scrutiny by people who know what they are talking out?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Mar 23 - 06:13 PM

.....talking about?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Mar 23 - 09:00 PM

You can ask. Fame, money and being reknown are the farthest things from my desires. I tasted it but it was not to my liking. While independent, who is really alone in the age of the internet. Mostly I am delighted by surprise. In the language of Math, I am practically illiterate.

If you asked, not dealing with the pitfalls and challenges in a career environment is an advantage to freedom of thought.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 04:45 AM

I am fully expecting that one day you will tell us how you were looking up at the sky, wondering if a cow really could jump over the moon. You will then go on to claim that it was your theory that gave rise to the NASA programme which took Armstrong and Aldrin up there.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 05:17 AM

"If you asked, not dealing with the pitfalls and challenges in a career environment is an advantage to freedom of thought"

Indeed it is. Just ask Gary Lineker.
But then the disadvantage is that not many people will get to hear about those thoughts, apart from those few who read some posts on mudcat.

Is this the way to Amarillo?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 12:07 PM

I'm fine with that since the guy who makes the measurement is deserving of the discovery. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6YK03f_GRFA

As I predicted there are also far more black holes than was thought, there are 10,000 in the milky way alone.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 12:32 PM

A successful thought experiment is not a discovery. It is a clarifying opening chapter.

I have the puzzle of dark matter left which includes 'it not existing. to existing in negative mass' in unknown forms. Primordial Black Holes are another possibility unproven.

Symmetry will still be a property found in retrospect to the eventual answer.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 04:09 PM

Hathor jumping over the moon sounds like a legend Pharoh Hachepsup started or a practical joke by Tesla.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 06:34 PM

> .... if a cow really could jump over the moon ....

In a way, stories do lead to science. Humans told themselves and each other, and more importantly their children, stories about people walking on the Moon; if they hadn't, Mankind wouldn't have wanted to go there.

.... Apologies, but I can't find the relevant page numbers in The Science Of Discworld* for the above argument (or even whether it's Science Of Discworld II). Anyhoo, the relevant quote is: "We are pan narrans, the story-telling ape." We're being pulled into the future by our imaginations; the fun part is finding which part of the fantasy is actually practicable and useful. Tread carefully, show your workings, and make sure it's repeatable by others. Oh, and expect surprises.

* Stop laughing at the back there: Roundworld is us, and the science is real.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 07:03 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Read Richard Dawkins' book The Magic of Reality. It's aimed at teenagers and young adults and it's expressed in a polar opposite way to Donuel's method, that is, it's clear, it's focused and everything is simply and straightforwardly given to us. Here's Dawkins' own introduction:

Magic is a slippery word: it is commonly used in three different ways, and the first thing I must do is distinguish between them. I'll call the first one 'supernatural magic', the second one 'stage magic' and the third one (which is my favourite meaning, and the one I intend in my title) 'poetic magic'. What I hope to show you in this book is that reality – the facts of the real world as understood through the methods of science – is magical in this third sense, the poetic sense, the good to be alive sense. In the rest of this book I want to show you that the real world, as understood scientifically, has magic of its own – the kind I call poetic magic: an inspiring beauty which is all the more magical because it is real and because we can understand how it works. Next to the true beauty and magic of the real world, supernatural spells and stage tricks seem cheap and tawdry by comparison. The magic of reality is neither supernatural nor a trick, but – quite simply – wonderful. Wonderful, and real. Wonderful because real.

Another contrast: Dawkins is believable. And a "scientist" who doesn't know how to communicate, and who is more interested in his own self-aggrandisement which he thinks he can achieve via obfuscation and twistery-mystery, is no scientist at all.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 09:03 AM

https://qz.com/766831/star-trek-real-life-technology

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 23 - 08:20 PM

I have empathy for those who lash out at me. Whatever pain they have encountered and act out we probably have all faced at one time or another. I have no need to knock down the numerous strawmen created for me like the uncivil strawman or the special strawman or the stupid idiot strawman. I suppose I am uncivil to Nazis, but they are Nazis, still Mel Gibson is a good actor and director.

I didn't grow up in the seventies when kids got participation awards and were taught they were all special and entitled. In the 50's we were all little shits who had to obey the brass. Rebellion came later. If I go back 20, 40, or 60 years my world view would make me laugh today but change is hard and usually painful. There is only one certainty and that certainty is death. I highly recommend that you pick the problems that you enjoy because it can all be over in a second or worse yet in weeks of suffering. :-\

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 23 - 09:06 PM

You see, nobody is "lashing out" at you. That's your perception, and that feeds into your need to be a professional victim. Dave, John and I have our differences, e.g., John is completely wrong about him and his dogs ;-) ;-) ;-) but we get on and very quickly get over any spats that we have (I love you, John, but never bring your curs to Bude, right?), and I can never forgive Dave about those bingo balls, but hey ho. What the average person here wants to see is you ditching the bullshit about what you see as the "vision" you have that we lack (not...) and for you to express yourself clearly and humbly and to stay within what is clearly your very limited knowledge zone. Any of the rest of us who step beyond that and get slapped down (summat that Nigel, bless 'im, is rather good at, as he did with me this very week) will quickly eat humble pie. But not you. You pretend that your bullshit was just humour after all, or, worse, that you're something of a persecuted visionary (gotta be those mushrooms...), or that you're a victim, a sort of prophet without honour on this website. Well you're no different from anyone else here, except that you have this weird mission to get us to swallow your obscurantist piffle. It's a shame really, but there you go.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Mar 23 - 03:03 AM

”I love you, John, but never bring your curs to Bude, right?”

Too late, Steve, way too late. And I left no evidence that we were there… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 23 - 05:38 AM

Visionaries come and go.
There are things that you don't know.
When you see outside yourself,
things you thought are something else.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 23 - 04:11 PM

Translator's note, please...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 23 - 12:57 PM

Visionaries come and go.
There are things that you don't know.
When you see outside yourself,
many things upon your shelf
Turn out to be something else,

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 23 - 01:36 PM

Gibberish.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 23 - 06:35 PM

An Amish farmer is walking through his field when he sees a guy drinking from his pond, scooping it up with his hand.

The farmer says, "Trinken sie nicht das wasser, die kuhe unddie schweine haben in ihm geschissen," ('Don't drink the water, the cows and the pigs shit in it'). The guy shouts back, "This is America! I don't understand your gibberish! Speak English, you moron!"

The farmer replies, "Use two hands, you'll get more."

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 23 - 07:21 PM

Yeah, right.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 08:59 AM

At the start of a successful business, there are many people who believe the venture is absolutely crazy, just like my Black Hole Theory. I remember when a number of people wanted to know in the most simple language possible what I was talking about. When I finally said out loud how Black Holes actually create more space from mass the sudden silence was deafening. It is now just as unbelievable as it was years ago but is finally catching on like wildfire,
Now that I have demonstrated the validity of this crazy idea it is not rational to deny it. That Steve wants to belittle the concept after a verifying measurement is practically pathological but has progressed from a child to poo beneath a shoe. To get a glimpse of the mystery of dark energy is a good example, as I have said, anyone can do what they set their mind to do when you love the exploration.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 10:20 AM

Dunno about belittling your "concept." You sure could do with belittling your ego.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 10:40 AM

"Now that I have demonstrated the validity of this crazy idea it is not rational to deny it." When and where have you done so? I'd like to read about it.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 11:22 AM

It's all here on mudcat in my narrative posts. I don't spam and show my creations visually since it was deemed spam like my Dolphin-headed cellos and devil-headed Steiner or rattlesnake violins when I linked them here 22 years ago. Original Cartoons were not denigrated as much as rhetoric so I went in that direction for a while.
When it comes to cosmology I never posted graphs or geometric relationships. Freedom of thought has changed my mind back and forth regarding a multiverse but at the end of the day the black hole surprise remained intact.

The earliest exploration involved six-dimensional models that were later abandoned. I even depicted a Klien bottle-shaped universe for fun. I now see a flat aspect to the universe, not to be confused with flat Earth. ;^/

I am just as surprised at the BH result as I was in Learning the Saint Saen's cello concerto over the summer practicing for hours in the milk house next to the barn on the farm.

I am slow. I am reminded of Vemeer who could only paint 2 pictures a year when he hurried.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 11:44 AM

Links out to projects are ok - many of us have Flickr or Photobucket or other sites to park photos. Or save them in Google or Microsoft folders to share.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 11:53 AM

You should put all your observations in one place for the benefit of the scientific community and all mankind.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 12:07 PM

Anyone else apart from Vermeer you'd like to align yourself with? Darwin? Einstein? Leonardo? Erik The Red?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 01:03 PM

Its been about a billion years since Venus had significant water, then the planet turned itself inside out on the surface by volcanic activity.
Now its drier than the driest dessert on Earth. The surface pressure is about the same as 2 miles beneath our oceans but boy is it hot from trapping solar heat. It is estimated the rate of volcanic activity on Venus now is nearly the same as Earth today.

Will Venus ever have its atmosphere distill out its sulfuric acid?
Probably not. Even a collision with a giant water comet will not help due to the heat.

I am not interested in leaving footprints in the sand. Nor do I desire leaving a rare fossilized footprint. Blogging exercises help thinking like talking to oneself. Its just not that important although I do wish the great library of Alexandria had not burned. Half of that stuff was probably nonsense that we see today on the web.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 01:14 PM

Inner space, outer space, and the immediate space around us are co-equal partners in 'time'.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 03:39 PM

You don't care to leave "footprints in the sand", Don, but you don't mind rattling on about your marvelous discovery without providing proof that you ever came up with anything. Sounds like so much B.S. to me.

---

This IS a BS thread . . . ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 03:49 PM

In time this too could be wrong but you won't hurt anything or undo what happened no matter what you believe. btw a milk house is where the milk is stored in an underground vessel, not where the cows were milked.
eeii eeii oh.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 09:43 AM

Theory that has been validated and has shown good predictive and explanatory power, one can try and extrapolate to everywhere. After all, often in science, the most we can do is to draw our best inferences about unknown instances based on a theory that works well in many known instances. And that is much better than making arbitrary claims or drawing no inference whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 12:07 PM

"This IS a BS thread . . . ---mudelf"

So in this section the truth be damned and any kind bizarre fantasy goes, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 12:16 PM

any kind OF...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 07:24 PM

Your vengeful extreme right wing is showing.
Sure you hope to be vindictive but I know better.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 07:30 PM

"Your vengeful extreme right wing is showing."

I think you need to explain this. I haven't picked up the slightest trace of that in gillymor's remarks.

Any slur will do, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 08:47 PM

the inner planets

don't mess with Texas

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 05:22 AM

We all find meaning in different things. Steve enjoys the good clean filth of simple jokes and a variety of food. I enjoy the brain and Black holes.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 05:55 AM

That makes sense because I've long suspected that your brain is a black hole.
Sorry, Don, I couldn't resist that one.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 06:22 AM

You don't know what kind of joke I enjoy because, as you've demonstrated, countless times, you don't know what a joke is. And stop saying vile things about people which you then try to laugh off with a stupid piece of whimsy. That is so transparent.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 07:23 AM

299 and I'm still non the wiser...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 07:28 AM

Non The Wiser sounds like a medieval king or warlord. Think Ethelred The Unready or Hagar The Horrible...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 08:47 AM

Filk, regarding stories and science ideas, in the amazing spiderman the super powers were attributed to m-RNA. Decades later m-rna came to the rescue during the pandemic, Jules Verne also had a good track record.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 03:31 PM

I remember Ethel the Undressed. Mate of Lilo Lil.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 03:35 PM

> Filk,

MaJoC, *please* .... I thought for a moment that you were considering my favourite form of (de)composed folksong.

> regarding stories and science ideas [ ... ] Jules Verne also had a
> good track record

There's a skipload of near-miss predictions (anyone else remember James Blish's "spindizzies"?), and an all-but-unbounded load of outright tosh (most of pulp SF and fantasy); and that's only the lucky few who got published. We remember those who hit the jackpot; don't forget that the people who made money most reliably during gold rushes were the ones selling shovels and wheelbarrows, not their customers.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 04:26 PM

I remember Ethelrude the Unready.

One hypothesis right out of a hundred ain't bad.
Meatloaf

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 23 - 06:29 PM

Even Einstien got loads of stuff wrong including a paper on why Black Holes don't exist.

I have a decent record on getting big things right looking back over 22 years.
1. Bio war pandemic
2. Iraq war outcome.
3. Black Holes are responsible for the acceleration of space.
There is more but it includes grim stuff like climate and more hopeful breakthroughs in health science.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Mar 23 - 06:51 PM

All those accomplishments and still just as modest as the day is long. I'm surprised Mr. Nobel hasn't come knocking at you door.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 23 - 06:56 PM

More like the guy who gives out the Booker literary prize for fiction, I should think, gillymor.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 03:49 PM

Even Steve was accidentally right about one thing lately. I saw in 2007 Beethoven was a victim of lead poisoning after testing but Steve said no. Only this week was a second test done and liver disease and too much drinking was forensically diagnosed.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 04:06 PM

To prove me wrong one need only look at my posting history. In this thread alone I revealed how I made a correlation that others are now seeing clearly for the first time. Every theory needs to be refined and corrected be it, Newton or Einstein. I doubt I will have much to offer in that process.

As far as dark matter is concerned gravity seems to have a different power to visible matter but I don't know what it neans.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 04:24 PM

Don, I don't know if you've done all the things you claim to have done and I don't care whether or not you have or haven't. It's your humble bragging and Trumpian hubris that I find annoying.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 05:18 PM

I can summarise the last 300+ posts quite simply. Which I believe is what the intention was in the first place.

I did not understand Donuel's posts on a number of topics. I cannot recall which one in particular I asked for simplification on but it no longer matters. I still do not understand him. Donuel did not simplify any of his posts for me. In fact, this thread has made things more complex than ever. It is not Donuel's failure. It is mine. I do not understand him. After 300+ posts on here I don't believe I ever will. Maybe I should have explained what I meant by simplification better.

By simplification I mean putting a complex concept in terms that anyone, including me, can understand. Let me give an example. From Bill Bryson, in this case, explaining how you build a universe

No matter how hard you try you will never be able to grasp just how tiny, how spacially unassuming, is a proton. It is just way too small.

A proton is an infinitessimal part of an atom, which in itself of course is an insubstantial thing. Protons are so small that a little dib of ink, like the dot on this 'i' can hold something in the region of 500,000,000,000 of them, or rather more than the number of seconds it takes to make half a million years. So protons are exceedingly microscopic, to say the very least.

Now imagine if you can (and of course you can't) shrinking one of those protons down to a billionth of its normal size into a space so small that it would make a proton look enormous. Now pack into that tiny, tiny space about an ounce of matter. Excellent. You are ready to start a universe.

Now, whether this is factually correct or not is irrelevent. The point is I understand it and if I can understand it, so can many others.

At that point, unless anyone wants me to address anything specific before I go, I shall duck out. I suggest others do the same to stop the whole thread becoming more of a mire.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 06:00 PM

Compared to the Bohr atom model we changed our thinking of particles to energy packets with quantum features. I am capable of taking the most simple path to understanding and do not even speak the exquisite language of mathematics. I more or less take a geometric approach.

As an athiest I assume we get only one go around so I have reinvented myself 4 or 5 times once I begin to feel a same familiarity or need to escape chaos. My current energy level has been the longest and somewhat laziest period. I think this is common to most people and that a singular focus for a lifetime is the rare example.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 06:36 PM

I'm tempted to do the good cop, bad cop bit, Dave, but I can't be arsed. It's Friday night and the Morrisons negroamaro is going down a treat (legal, unlike magic mushrooms), and we've raised a glass to our much-loved postman (George) who retired today. A man who loved us and his Peroni (we bought him a stash today, natch), with whom we go back many years. He'd do anything for us. Luckily, his younger brother is taking over his round. We'll soon mould him to our ways! The Bude head postmaster (Luke, who just happened to be in the same class as our son at secondary school...) drove George down to our house here in the sticks this afternoon so that we could raise a glass of cava in his honour. Selfies were achieved. Donuel's mission in life is to make things as unsimple as possible in order to impress (his stuff rarely bears close scrutiny, which I've routinely discovered whenever I could be arsed to investigate). Keep posting and keep it simple, even if it's only about your postie!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 08:11 PM

I am more bold and more direct than thou. For example when I was directly asked about the status of UFO I directly answered that they exist. In these last two years this has been affirmed and a few weasels changed their tune. I also directly said that presence has a niche in life for unknown reasons and means undetermined. My inferences and analysis may confuse some people but when it is a topic outside one's experience it is only natural to not understand.

Vivre la difference but not the condemnation.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 08:18 PM

I simply explore questions that many people do not entertain.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 09:18 PM

Well I know you'd like to think that you confuse us via your erudition. Unfortunately, you do little more than entertain us with your half-baked pseudoscience. There's a place for that, of course. Please don't stop.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 10:38 PM

Civil Rights did not harm whites, Gay marriage did not harm hetero marriage and controversial exploration does not harm science, It has nothing to do with your good cop bad cop delusion. Exploration is not a crime unless you are a conquistador.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 02:50 AM

Donuel, just a tiny, tiny quibble from me: when you say that UFOs exist, of COURSE, they exist- you're simply saying that one has not identified that particular flying object.

if you meant anything else, you needed to specify.

I kind of assume that you are in a grandiose phase. Which I understand- the other night I dreamt that I saw Elon Musk giggling like crazy, feeding live worms to a chihuahua. If that doesn't show my grandiosity, I don't know what would.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 04:34 AM

Value your local postie while you still have one. They are an endangered species nowadays, thanks to the company that employs them.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 05:40 AM

..."controversial exploration does not harm science"

It didn't do Galileo much good. If you're trying to say that bad science is harmless then I'm not with you. Adherence to the scientific process by people of integrity is the only safe way forward.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 08:01 AM

Impuning my integrity and preaching 'there is only one way' is the language of extremists. Discovery is a win win not a good guy bad guy confrontation. Galileo really" Lighten up. I know your pastime is closing threads with your threats or choice of words.
They say you can't talk sense to a drunk.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 09:08 AM

Complicated by the cold war and misinformation, the Orwellian question of do you 'believe' in UFOs was the norm. Belief implied a religious faith. I never believed in UFO's, I just went with the evidence in hand.
Some said they did not exist and I said they did. Today we are beyond that issue.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 09:13 AM

You slur, you lose. Have you heard that one before? As I type this it's lunchtime, six hours before I'd even think of digging out the corkscrew, old chap.

Bad science is predicated on partial, dishonest or uncorroborated evidence. For thousands of years the sun went round the earth, eclipses were caused by monsters biting a chunk out of the sun, and Isaac Newton, in his time, practised alchemy. The good-evidence test failed all who adhered to these notions. No-one, on the other hand, has said that it's wrong to chase up a new hypothesis or quietly connect your findings to come up with a new notion. On that foundation is good science built. Another foundation stone of good science is the ability to communicate ideas simply and clearly to others. So far, you've told us what YOU think about black holes and the state of the universe, etc. What you have not told is where your evidence is. Forgive us for concluding that you've scarcely penetrated beyond the bounds of a fertile imagination at best and fantasy at worst. And don't get me started on that communicating thang...

Off to Morrisons now. I need eggs and spuds to fill the black hole in my larder. I suppose you recommend that I take a breath test before getting in my car.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 09:34 AM

I will go one step further than Arthur C Clark and say there is the technology that not merely seems like magic but there is the existence of a means so that there is no confinement or safe that would disallow entry. For the human species this would be anathema given our criminal proclivities.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 09:45 AM

Well that was clear as mud. It's Clarke, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 10:00 AM

The radical turn about regarding SMBH action upon space itself is a big deal but has its problems that will need refinement. That being said arriving tangentially at this conclusion can be done with correlation (my method involved the comparable increase in BH formation and universal expansion over 14 billion years) or by mathematical measurement of BH themselves as done by the Univerity of Hawaii.

Denials are an easy lie Steve employs constantly without evidence and are a troll's second most popular behavior. Ad Hominum attacks are #1.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 10:20 AM

So saying that you can't talk sense to a drunk (meaning me, a never-drunk!) isn't an ad hominem? I think you need a better dictionary, fella!

It's a bit like asking people who proclaim God's existence for evidence. That's not denial - that's asking for evidence. Let my speech be yea yea, nay nay... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 10:22 AM

Visionaries come and go.
There are things that you don't know.
When you see outside yourself,
the many things upon your shelf
Turn out to be something else,

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 10:25 AM

Also Sprach Donuel Rumsfeld... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 11:41 AM

Senator Harry Reid was a courageous investigator in UFOs although his demeanor was milk toast. Louise was a brave journalist who died of Covid and Allan Hynek died of the same kind of brain cancer as Bob Marley. I honor their contribution and are part of my motivation to carry on their discoveries. They were selfless and approachable. There is also a debt of gratitude to the many millions of global eye witnesses.

We all have different motivations.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 12:17 PM

Savvy folks will understand what makes the most successful CEOS.
They know in the game of musical chairs where the available seats are and can anticipate when the music is about to stop. Some might call that ability as being prescient, no matter how they do it, That small advantage of getting ahead of the problem is invaluable.

Some got it and some don't. You Steve definitely don't have it.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 12:22 PM

Well I don't possess precognition, same as everyone else, but I can certainly predict when you're going to say something daft. I never quite know what it'll be, but there's much fun to be had in the anticipation.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 01:25 PM

"There is also a debt of gratitude to the many millions of global eye witnesses."

Millions? Where have you plucked that figure from?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 01:30 PM

Oh God, don't ask...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 01:41 PM

It is an international phenomenon for over a thousand years.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 02:13 PM

So you made the figure up.

"It is an international phenomenon for over a thousand years."

Well this is not quite what it seems. UAPs have been seen for a large number of years. Of course what might be an UAP to one viewer, could well be the planet Venus to another and identified as such. UAP no longer.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 03:29 PM

"UAP"? Don't you bloody start as well. I had to look that up. It's bad enough with him and his obfuscations!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 03:58 PM

Old news and ignorance are boring.
Going between Mach 5 and MACH 20 IT CAN TURN so rapidly that organic life would be crushed. It can proceed underwater without being slowed.
These are clues as to what forces it is avoiding or overcoming.I can list more clues if seeking understanding is the point.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 04:19 PM

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7514271/

more obfuscation for Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 05:23 PM

Your 03.58 post is unconnected and meaningless. As for your last post, I never click on unsupported links. I did that once with one of yours and bitterly regretted it.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 05:41 PM

As one can see it is supported by the US government.

Other clues include no sonic boom, when very close one can feel a very low-frequency hum, the required power can be deduced by the rate of acceleration even if its mass is not precisely known.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 07:44 PM

Supported by the US government, eh? Which government departments, pray tell? Does Joe Biden know about this?   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 12:55 AM

Donuel: "Going between Mach 5 and MACH 20 IT CAN TURN so rapidly that organic life would be crushed."

I often wonder whether any 'beings' inside these crafts may be programmed robots.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 08:46 AM

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7514271/


The National Institutes of Health in cooperation with PCM (our foremost biomedical and scientific research lab) There is no better blue ribbon scientific research institute in the US.

I am not allowed to link to classified information from Bigalow Industries. Steve is a better blue-ribbon liar than Martin Gibson.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 09:02 AM

The budget for the NIH is over 51 billion dollars.
I do not know Steve's budget.

Robots in the sky? There could be AI entities. But there also could be an inertia-free field generated around the physical craft, or even a time distortion factor we do not realize.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 09:20 AM

"Steve is a better blue-ribbon liar than Martin Gibson."

I must say, you have a bloody nerve accusing me of ad hominems when you come out with vile trash like this.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 09:42 AM

Sometimes I respond to a lie but we call it giving better than we get. You only embarrass yourself with your harassment, bile and invectives. While having a useful idiot to compare and contrast my truthfulness is sometimes handy, your constant automaton behavior is getting old, and I daresay senile. You have no scientific contribution of your own which is not uncommon for a true scientist. The cliche' about an old dog and new tricks comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 09:55 AM

The luminosity of UAPs is also a clue. It is obviously not LED or Halogen light. In some cases, it seems like ionized air and in other cases, it looks like intense laser radiation.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 11:16 AM

I have never seen an octagonal object at 20,000 ft.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/ufo-object-balloon-shot-down.html
I wonder what the other 2 looked like.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 12:13 PM

What an utter disgrace you are, you nasty little man. Only an idiot thinks he can get away with crude insults by quickly talking past them. Find yourself a hole to crawl into.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 02:35 PM

Geez Louise, you fellas are still at it, hammer and tongs!

I think I'll return to whatever I was doing.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 04:06 PM

You're not wrong, Charmion. I really should know better than to:respond to a brain-dead, bumptious, braggadocio-replete buffoon.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 04:16 PM

I did try to tell you on the ‘US/Russia/China war’ thread Steve but, as ever, you were too ‘clever’ to listen to sage advice. It’s really simple, even for a ‘clever’ bloke like you - Just. Ignore. Him.

Or don’t, I really don’t give a FF.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 04:30 PM

Well yes, John (and please stop.doing.that.daft.full.stop.thing.between.words! You may be a lot of things but you're no Maggie!), but being aligned with the legendary troll (whose predations passed me by as it happens) is not nice. It's a bit like me calling your dogs a bunch of filthy parasitic arseholes...? ;-)

Cheers from Steve, the catman... XXX

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 05:23 PM

Staying on or near topic is now bad when I do it?
How about we both have a POV but never the twain shall meet?
It is not a competition so let our respect survive our differences.
It is for a short time in the grand scheme.

For example, I do respect your strengths. Let me have mine.

As seen from satellites the UAP max speed has been nearly Mach 60.
Relativistic speeds can be projected with more time.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 06:36 PM

You're sidelined, Donuel. Sorry, mate, but you can't cut it with real-life, sane people. Go off and have a good think. And please stop thinking that you can get away with your horrible slurs and insults by quickly posting a nicey-nicey post or two. So transparent, old boy. Have an early night is my advice.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 07:54 PM

retreat to victimhood if you must. Trump makes a career of it.

My cello teacher convinced me that the Protestant work ethic is not meant for artists. While never a superstar and quite average I am satisfied with my different path. Doing what you love most of the time is rewarding.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 08:18 PM

Just go to bed. Eat (or inhale) mushrooms first if you like but I don't recommend it. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 08:23 PM

An example of keeping it simple in pure research is in the advancement of prosthetics that have a true sense of touch. The group had no idea if the electronic interface with the brain that would unnaturally stimulate hundreds of thousands of neurons that were not even receptors for touch would work. IT DID. The brain went ahead and figured it out.

My idea for MS treatment is also simple. Just add cloned synovial fluid to the spinal fluid and let the body add the extra sheathing that was missing for nerves.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 08:30 PM

I think we can all be glad that you're not involved in medical research. Now do go to bed. Have an early night, my dear fellow.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 02:43 AM

Steve, I haven’t a clue what you’re going on about with your “being aligned with the legendary troll…is not nice”. Nobody mentioned ‘the legendary troll’ except you. And you’re often ‘not nice’ on this forum, including on this thread - pot/kettle/black, methinks.

You seem to be losing your grip on reality. Perhaps it’s an effect of your dual obsessions with Donuel and canine toilet-habits?

Now, you didn’t get it the first time, I’ll give it to you again - Just. Ignore. Him.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 04:30 AM

"Date: 26 Mar 23 - 08:46 AM"

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 05:14 AM

Just. Ignore. Him.

I know you are trying to help, BWM, but there comes a time when it's best follow your own advice and ignore them both if they're squabbling like daft kids.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 05:31 AM

"Daft kids," Doug? But out of the mouths of babes and sucklings...

(He ducks...)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 06:00 AM

"Daft kids," Doug?

"silly buggers" if you prefer!

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 06:07 AM

That'll do nicely. At least you don't do that daft-bugger full-stop thing!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 07:46 AM

As I have alluded to before my family is involved in NIH medical research.

Now back to space, We have just had quite a solar storm and the aurora borealis came all the way down to Michigan.
Here is a picture of Iceland's Henge...https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2303/ArcticHenge_Letelier_1765.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 08:03 AM

”I know you are trying to help, BWM, but there comes a time when it's best follow your own advice and ignore them both if they're squabbling like daft kids.”

You’re absolutely right, of course, Doug. There are people who are too ‘clever’ to be helped, and we have the perfect example here. Oh well, if they enjoy behaving like obsessive, needy fools, let ‘em have at it. I’ll stick with the grown-ups and Just. Ignore. Them. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 08:16 AM

So how many posts is that now, John, in which you're "ignoring" me/us? Oh, the irony! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 09:04 AM

A person interested in new scientific insights can see through these attempts to suppress them. It used to be the church that wanted to stifle new ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 09:10 AM

"Insights" being the non-operative word?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 09:51 AM

A good track record including cures for M dystrophy and malsria.

https://www.nih.gov/sites/default/files/about-nih/discovery-into-health/nih-turning-discovery-into-health.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 05:40 PM

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/newly-discovered-anatomy-shields-and-monitors-brain

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 06:14 PM

There is no cure for muscular dystrophy. Malaria is an acute condition which can be treated effectively but which may return. Talk of a "cure" is not appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 09:17 PM

These are reality.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 09:27 PM

We know the people who cured malaria. I posted all this last year.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 23 - 09:44 PM

The gene therapy trials are working The problem is that there are so many varients.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 23 - 12:43 PM

There is no cure for muscular dystrophy.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 23 - 01:50 PM

From wiki: "There is no cure for any disorder from the muscular dystrophy group."

From the NHS website: "There's no cure for MD."

There is no reference to a cure for muscular dystrophy in either of the links you provided, which is hardly surprising. Your statement is without foundation.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Mar 23 - 04:27 PM

You know that real time insider information is not goggleable.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 23 - 04:35 PM

What you said was plain wrong. Of course, the very last thing you do is "plain." There is no cure for muscular dystrophy, right?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Mar 23 - 08:03 PM

It's hard to argue with someone who's receiving "real time insider information" which is "not goggleable". Probably via confidential transmissions to his tin foil hat.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 23 - 08:52 PM

Dunno about you, gillymor, but I've never had much success when I've tried to goggle anything...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 06:03 PM

In conclusion to keeping it simple in the Universe, we see that symmetry is the repeating beauty. The Standard model is not accepted as the theory of everything by anyone. For one thing, it is the ugliest organization of asymmetric particles but it almost works. The theories that use the 4 known forces in the Universe have to add gravity by hand and the equations usually blow up or don't work smoothly because there is not enough room to unite them with gravity. There is a theory that needs gravity and automatically
allows gravity to naturally appear and that is String Theory. With extra dimensions, there is room to allow all the forces to unite along with gravity.

2,000 years ago Democritus theorized the Universe was made of atoms (that which can not be cut) but Pythagoras saw that strings of different lengths had different frequencies and saw the Universe in terms of music with beauty and harmony and of course symmetry. I see how they were both right in their way. Today we are on the brink
of a TOE a theory of everything. While everything in science is derived indirectly to be true it must be testable, reproducible and falsifiable. For String Theory that test will be to perfectly derive the mass of a proton using string theory equations. That is how close we are and yet far away.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 06:53 PM

There is no question that life is complex but the alphabet of DNA is as simple as the 4 GTCA. The four forces of the universe are the strong nuclear force that confounded Einstein, the weak nuclear force, the electromagnetic force that Maxwell showed was a symmetry between magnetism and electricity and finally Gravity as a pushing force (not a pulling force).

The biggest release of energy in the Universe happens when two Super Massive Black Holes merge from gravity. The waves produced are so huge that each wave is about 15 years apart and the energy released is more than all of the shining stars in the universe. We can see the wave coming when it warps and twists visible Pulsars that are between the explosion and Earth. The energy release is 5% of the energy in both SMBHs but is so huge that there is no way to make a comparison in a way the human mind can imagine.



PS re: the distractors, A Band-Aid for damaged genesfor
People with Duchenne muscular dystrophy, referred to as DMD, have various mutations in the body’s largest gene, dystrophin, which is a protein that cells need to stay intact. Dystrophin has 79 sections, or exons. If even one is missing, the body cannot produce dystrophin and the muscles degenerate.

There is no cure for DMD, but a new class of drugs called antisense oligonucleotides uses an approach called “exon skipping,” which acts like a Band-Aid over the missing exons so the body can skip over the damaged instructions and produce the protein needed to rebuild muscle tissue. Now a new gene therapy break through can correct for the specific missing gene. The explanation is possibly too complex to explain here so I will continue to liberally use the word cure despite the objector. When the results are published I'm sure he will not apologize or relent.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 07:04 PM

So then it has been cured in the future. That's simple enough.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 07:14 PM

DISCLAIMER: For security reasons, I have not revealed my source into the workings of the NIH, it is my better half who is an active member of the decision-making for NIH grants.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 07:34 PM

In a repeat conclusion to keeping it simple in the Universe, we see that symmetry is the repeating beauty. The Standard model is not accepted as the theory of everything by anyone. For one thing, it is the ugliest organization of asymmetrically numbered particles but it almost works. The theories that use the 4 known forces in the Universe have to add gravity by hand and the equations usually blow up or don't work smoothly because there is not enough room to unite them with gravity In 3 dimensions. There is a theory that creates gravity automatically and allows gravity to naturally appear - and that is String Theory. With extra dimensions, there is room to allow all the forces to unite along with gravity.

2,000 years ago Democritus theorized the Universe was made of atoms (that which can not be cut) but Pythagoras saw that strings of different lengths had different frequencies and saw the Universe in terms of music with beauty and harmony and of course symmetry. I see how they were both right in their way. Today we are on the brink
of a TOE a theory of everything. While everything in science is derived indirectly to be true it must be testable, reproducible and falsifiable. For String Theory that test will be to perfectly derive the mass of a proton using string theory equations. That is how close we are and yet far away.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 07:38 PM

Not another word or your wife may have to off you for security's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 07:50 PM

People do crazy things for 100 million dollars. I consider you partly crazy but not a contender.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 07:55 PM

C) He's crazy, (A7) He's manic de(Dm)pressive (A7)and (Dm) angry
He's (G7) crazy, paranoid, schizoid and (C) rude (C#dim ) and (Dm) violent (G7)
They (C) gave him(A7) some kind of new medi(Dm)cation (A7) (Dm)
And (G7) lately I think he's murderous (C) too. (F) (C) (C7)

(F) Bat shit crazy(C) (C7)
(C#7) And (D7) lately I wonder what he's going to do (G7) In (Dm) jail (G7)(spoken) sue?
Cause He's (C) crazy, psy(A7)chotic and lieing de(Dm)pendent, (A7) (Dm)

He's (F) angry ag(Em)gressive, com(Dm)pulsive, ob(A7)sessive
He's long haul (Dm) crazy from (G7) knowing (C) he's(G7) through

(F) Worried? You bet your ass I get (C) worried (B) (C)(B)(C)(C#)
Just (D7) wondering, wondering just what I should (G7) do (Dm) (G7)
'Cause He's (C) crazy, psy(A7)chotic and deeply de(Dm)pendant (A7) (Dm)
He's (F) laughin' and (Em) lyin', patho(Dm)logically (A7) fryin'
He so (Dm) crazy just like (G7) you know (C) who.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 08:05 PM

Well, the point is that there is no cure for muscular dystrophy.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 08:19 PM

No the POINT is the elegant beauty of the simple symmetry in the Universe.
Coincidentally my conclusion that black holes create expanding space is now a contending theory surprised me.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 08:22 PM

The theory of everything is expected to be an elegant equation less than 2 inches long.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 08:38 PM

Europe will build a bigger collider one day that should create dark matter.
The US spent a billion dollars to build a Large Hadron Collider and another billion dollars to fill in the hole. It put the US 2 generations behind Europe's discoveries.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 08:48 PM

Our science budget was cut but the Iraq war budget was increased.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 05:08 AM

Yet, in spite of all your incomprehensible verbiage (which, as is all too transparently obvious, is there to distract from the very simple fact that you made an untrue statement), there is still no cure for muscular dystrophy. The fact that you can so blithely make such a fundamental and avoidable error out of sheer carelessness, which you then can't admit to, calls into question the credibility of everything else you say. Over to you.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 06:17 AM

While everything in science is derived indirectly when we can't go there directly like the inside of the sun. To be true it must be testable, reproducible and falsifiable. For String Theory that test will be to perfectly derive the mass of a proton using string theory equations. That is how close we are and yet far away.

It turns out we do get something from nothing. The energy in the Universe equals zero when the positive energy of matter and radiation is equal to the negative energy of gravity, or when adding all the different galaxy spins turn out to be zero. Hawking used to say the dirt you remove from a hole equals the volume of the hole.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 08:01 AM

So mix that dirt with water and you get mud. Clear as.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 08:54 AM

Sorry, my disturbed fool needs attention...

Other reasonable people already recognize that certain cancers can be cured with medications and treatment modalities. Survival after 7 years is considered a cure but no one conflates that with all cancer cured.
MD is now in that category with a new gene therapy aided by CRISPR technology but it is a very specific treatment that can cure a specific geneticly caused form of MD..

My peculiar interest in black holes, cosmology and the multiverse many worlds theory has been confusing because they were my own thinking points, particularly in the beginning. I have often said anyone and everyone should hold a view of cosmology be it for religious or scientific curiosity or knowing where they live.

I was fortunate that my curiosity was sparked by witnessing an event42 years ago that defied our current scientific understanding. The best book to begin to understand is Flatland. You will be able to understand Michiu Kaku because he is as good if not a better communicator than Carl Sagan. His books began with Hyperspace and today The God Equation.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 09:40 AM

The treatment you refer to is promising. But it is not a cure. We hope it will be, we want it to be, but it isn't yet. The sources that report on this report on it accurately. Perhaps you should take a lead from them. As for your cosmological meanderings, why not take a hint from your own thread title?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 10:01 AM

Fortune favors the doers, don't give up learning.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 11:17 AM

"I have often said anyone and everyone should hold a view of cosmology be it for religious or scientific curiosity or knowing where they live."

In a book* I was reading recently, I came across mention of Dr. Jack Van Impe. It seems that in 2001 he said that black holes fulfill all the technical requirements to be the location of Hell.

*The book was The Devil's Atlas by Edward Brooke-Hitching

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 03:54 PM

If you think about the unstoppable collapse of a body to form a black hole, you might think that the body ends up with all its matter concentrated in a single point of space – the singularity. But again, this picture of the spacepoint-singularity residing in the center of the black hole is simply wrong. Using our analogy, you can see why. The singularity is the whole of the axis – and the axis represents a space direction. Hence, the singularity is not a point in space – it is infinitely extended!

This is exceedingly weird. From the outside, the region of a black hole looks like the surface of a sphere (in our model with two space dimensions and one time dimension, like the circumference of a circle). But inside that sphere, which has only a finite surface area, you can “hide” objects that are infinitely large – infinitely extended in space. How does this work? Again, it works because time and space trade places. Our simple scenario corresponds to an eternal black hole – a black hole that has always existed and will continue to exist indefinitely in the future. From the outside, the black hole is infinitely extended in time, but has only a finite size in space. Inside, the tables are turned: Time is only of finite extent (it starts at the horizon and ends abruptly at the singularity-axis), but instead one space direction, the axis direction, is now infinitely long.

If you have a hard time getting to grips with this mixture of time and space, rest assured that physicists have a hard time visualizing it, as well. Luckily, physicists have a language in which the properties of simple black holes can be formulated very precisely – the language of mathematics -, and using this formulation as a guide, it is possible to develop a pretty good intuition about spacetime containing a black hole.
This analogy isn’t perfect. In the analogy, the change-over of space and time happens suddenly, at the boundary. In a more precise formulation, the change-over is more gradual. In a way, the time direction is bent more and more inward as you get closer to the black hole. As the bending is strong enough to prevent any object from moving in any direction but inwards, you cross the horizon.

Also, the black hole is an especially simple specimen. It is spherically symmetric – a so-called Schwarzschild black hole, after Karl Schwarzschild who, in 1915, was the first to write down the equations defining and describing such a black hole; a special solution of Einstein’s equations of general relativity. (However, it took physicists more than forty years to understand the weird spacetime geometry that Schwarzschild’s equations imply!) As has already been mentioned, this type of black hole is eternal – it has always been there, and will always be there. More realistic black holes with a definite beginning (for example those produced by the collapse of a massive star) or eternal black holes which rotate all have a somewhat more complex inside structure.

Apart from these qualifications, the analogy holds, and it does capture an essential aspect of a real black hole’s spacetime geometry – time and space changing places at the horizon, and some fundamental consequences of that exchange.

Under such intense gravitational fields, no life could survive so experiencing time going in directions unknown to life will never be experienced.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 04:38 PM

There were fewer of these eternal primordial black holes after the big bang but the number of new black holes increased over time at such an increasing rate that the effect on space gradually grew and is fairly pronounced today. Noticing the rate of black hole formation and the accompanying growth of space expansion is all that I found promising.
Looking back on this it was really not that hard.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 04:48 PM

Seeing a geometric relationship is easy for me but what looks impossible to me is solving the Swarzfield equations that Einstein proposed.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 05:38 AM

The 03.54 PM post is not the work of Donuel (which hardly needed Sherlock to figure out) but is a straight lift from the website Einstein Online. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 07:18 AM

What makes spinning stellar black holes different from a static Eienstien black hole are internal zones where centrifugal zones are so strong that they stall the gravitational force inward and create time zones that nearly stop and electrodynamic forces that shoot out the poles.

Since the human brain is made by our universe the quantum structure of nanotubes and the nothingness of the central vesicles may offer more clues to the quantum nature of time and the if anything can happen it will happen properties that would really piss off Steve regarding subjects like ESP and prescience.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 07:25 AM

Speculate away, dear boy. If there's one thing in this universe that's utterly boundless it's your capacity for fantasy.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 08:29 AM

Thank you, being forward looking is not always fantasy.
We have many different words for it. I think our future concept is what separates us from dogs who have only an inkling of the future but enough to be successful in the hunt. The words we use for this ability are many; able to see around corners, prophesize, predict, prescience, crystal gazing, etc. but fantasy is not among them. All in all we are fairly successful with it. Perhaps one in several billion people are remarkably good at it. I'm about one in 2,000.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 08:47 AM

You left out the one word that fits, deluded.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 09:38 AM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 11:08 AM

Donuel,
I asked, up thread, if any of your musings had appeared in a reputable scientific publication and the answer was, basically, no.

As a follow-up question, have any other non-scientific common interest groups received the benefit of your insight in the way this music orientated site has?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 11:29 AM

I am not a PhD physicist nor do I publish papers. Nor am I a self-promoter or a competitive advertiser of art or ideas except in this minnow pond of social media pond. Is that a bad thing? I think not. I am as amateur as they come. You may think that sounds like hubris but I think it sounds like humility to me. I suppose I am the nail that sticks out.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 11:35 AM

Well rot my flay-o...!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 12:06 PM

Knowing yourself will always be more important than knowing others,
It is rare to feel proud of an achievement after 4 years or 40 years. Most of the time a feeling of satisfaction comes from a very short lived task.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 12:25 PM

The better I know myself the better I can know others in a more limited way. I believe the marketplace is a poor measure of true excellence. Just being a professional who does something for money is not the best measure of abilities or being a good human being.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 12:28 PM

Nor am I a self-promoter ...

I beg to differ.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 12:45 PM

... have any other non-scientific common interest groups received the benefit of your insight in the way this music orientated site has?

So, is it just Mudcat then?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 12:46 PM

The context included the word -except in this social media...
When encouragement is hard to come by sometimes we have to make some ourselves. I loved Muhammud Ali for much of his clever self-promotion.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 01:22 PM

Muhammad Ali was a superb boxer, the greatest of all in my book, and a supreme athlete who didn't need "clever self-promotion" in order to be appreciated. He was the very best at what he did. "Clever self-promotion" is generally used by less talented individuals who need to thrust themselves into the public eye in order to get noticed and get by. I know of a player of a musical instrument (which I'd better not name...), for example, who purports to teach the instrument online and who writes lots of articles but who isn't actually that good. That sort of thing. Something to reflect on perhaps.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 01:56 PM

Judging me is pretty far off-topic but it makes certain people feel good I suppose. Symmetry is the universal clue to answering many problems, relates to fractal chaos theory, and all around is fundamental to beauty in our mind's eye. Everything that works for me won't work for others who have not had weekly migraines, dyslexic properties and all the other dissimilar experiences in life. It's the old example of nature and nurture. As for Ali, the measure of his craft is equal to the ethics of being a good human being, something that is rare except for the most remarkable people.   Also sport is one of the obvious and few endeavors that are mostly meritorious and not a subjective judgment.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 02:29 PM

Also sport is one of the obvious and few endeavors that are mostly meritorious and not a subjective judgment.

In Muhammad Ali's sport of boxing, unless it's by a knockout, the result is completely subject to the judgement of the officials.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 03:25 PM

'mostly' was chosen for such exceptions, Iceskating and gymnastics is way too subjective imo

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 08:09 PM

There is a fine line between art and some sports.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Apr 23 - 07:42 AM

THEY ALL LAUGHED
(George and Ira Gershwin)

The odds were a hundred to one against me
The world thought the heights were too high to climb
But people from Missouri never incensed me
Oh, I wasn't a bit concerned
For from history I had learned
How many, many times the worm had turned

They all laughed at Christopher Columbus
When he said the world was round
They all laughed when Edison recorded sound
They all laughed at Wilbur and his brother
When they said that man could fly

They told Marconi
Wireless was a phony
It's the same old cry

They laughed at me wanting you
Said I was reaching for the moon
But oh, you came through
Now they'll have to change their tune,

They all said we never could be happy
They laughed at us— and how!
But ho, ho, ho
Who's got the last laugh now

They all laughed at Rockefeller Center
Now they're fighting to get in
They all laughed at Whitney and his cotton gin
They all laughed at Fulton and his steamboat
Hershey and his chocolate bar

Ford and his Lizzie
Kept the laughers busy
That's how people are

They laughed at me wanting you
Said it would be Hello! Goodbye!
But oh, you came through
Now they're eating humble pie

They all said we'd never get together
Darling, let's take a bow
For ho, ho, ho
Who's got the last laugh now

They laughed at me wanting you
Said, it would be, hello, goodbye
But oh, you came through
Now they're eating humble pie

They all said we'd never get together
Darling, let's take a bow
For ho, ho, ho
Who's got the last laugh

Hee, hee, hee
Let's at the past laugh
Ha, ha, ha
Who's got the last laugh now

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Apr 23 - 09:11 AM

Columbus, Edison, the Wright brothers and Marconi got out there and did something about it, not spout on about it to a group of people who were really rather more interested in something else.

If enough buzz words and phrases are cobbled together then, by random chance, they may coincide with fact at sometime. It's a bit rich for someone then to go on and claim they had the original thought before anyone else.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 23 - 09:14 AM

"People used to laugh at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian. Well they're not laughing now."

(The late comedian Bob Monkhouse)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Apr 23 - 10:15 AM

Original thoughts often come in pairs.
Regarding Calculus, Newton was only one of its originators. Marconi had several simultaneous rivals, and Edison was ultimately outdone by Tesla today. In physics, there are numerous examples.

Gershwin picked several people who have become villains in today's society. I may be the only person to rhyme castles with assholes but it is surprisingly possible for you to say something original right now.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 03 Apr 23 - 10:26 AM

Rhyming "castles with assholes".
Wow, is there a Grammy on you horizon.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron
Date: 03 Apr 23 - 10:45 AM

I was going to mention that Marconi used more than one of Tesla's patents to 'invent' radio without letting on. I'm not sure if he ever payed him for the use thereof.

Darwin only published his Origin Of Species because someone else had the same idea and, apparently, there is an ancient relief carving of a light bulb in Egypt. Powered perhaps by the Baghdad batteries.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Apr 23 - 11:35 AM

That
lightbulb looks more like the first vibrator

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Apr 23 - 11:49 AM

Or an ad for an ED cure.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Apr 23 - 10:03 AM

A simple solution to school mass shootings is about to emerge.
It will bypass the second amendment. It will bypass the NRA and the gun lobby. It will undoubtedly make some politicians more strident.
IT IS THE BOYCOTT OF SCHOOLS BY STUDENTS who don't want to be legally shot by Republican legislation anymore.

I predict it will be slow at first but will take on a life of its own that will be bi-partisan if not pre-partisan. The ramifications and implications are enormous

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Apr 23 - 10:18 AM

The paradigm will shift to the Constitutional rights of States to march its children to slaughter like cattle and the Constitutional rights of children.

The freedom to open carry machine guns will be a consequential issue and not the central issue.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Apr 23 - 10:39 AM

Teamwork makes the dream work.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 23 - 09:47 AM

Some they do and some they don't and for others its just as well but for sexually active people it is a good idea to make abortion an integral part of dating sites and apps. The true majority of pro-choice folks need a wider base.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 23 - 10:01 AM

Many people do not know that Ukraine was a leading nation in bio engineering and genetics. In fact, they had methods and applications of biomedicine not allowed in the US.

The advances in mRNA and CRISPR is about to help grow more food, cure more disease and create synthetic life. It is a brand new medical landscape today.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 23 - 06:12 AM

Governors are speaking up about the megademic of assault weapon gun deaths. Its time to bring back the AR ban.

We used to have one.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 23 - 02:46 PM

The market for caskets is dying. 60% of people choose cremation. One can even choose mulching today. Caskets are expensive and control 85% of the market by selling to funeral homes. There is an alternative called Titan Caskets that average 1000 bucks on Amazon. A cheaper more fun alternative casket came to mind. A variety could range from the Great Western pine box to the bass fiddle for under 500. Novelty caskets could include the dirt Buick, the daisy pusher, the sarcoughogus and sarcasmgus.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 23 - 07:49 PM

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 23 - 08:03 PM

"Don't be evil" is a Google meme. this goes nowhere far enough in the developing AI revolution IMO. I've tried to develop awareness about AI for about 7 years to no avail. Where it is now is amazing, It has saved over a billion hours of PHD time and solved all 200 million protein constructions in biology. In half a day it can go from beginner to entirely new never seen before chess strategies.
It can write 2 million stories in the time a human could write one.
Today it can suffer from hallucinations but it also can do things that defy human understanding. Then again we do not understand our own consciousness. Philosophers, engineers, physicians, artists and legal minds will be needed to define ethics for AI.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 08:55 AM

There is a war between those who believe what is inevitable and those who believe what is possible. Erring on the side of what is possible is life. The inevitable is always death.
This is most apparent in climate change.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Apr 23 - 06:10 PM

A Rouge black hole the size of 20 million of our sun has been seen to create stars in its 200,000 light-year-long wake. Thats big.
Perhaps it was formed by multiple mergers.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 12:04 AM

A "RED black hole", Donuel? I'm trying to picture that. Do you mean "rogue"?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 10:17 AM

It is both since it is red shifted by distant acceleration but I misspelled rogue/

Unknown spherical drones have been filmed by the US military in active war zones in Iraq. They have no propellers and look like polished metallic globes.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 10:20 AM

Imagine the size of some black holes as extending from the sun to the orbit of Jupiter or Neptune.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 10:06 AM

Oh dear, I believe I have invented the protein bomb. An enzyme turns the strong knots/bonds of the collagen protein bonds into slip knots. Instead of an explosive that tears bodies apart, a body falls apart silently without the binding protein of collagen. A cocktail of enzymes could theoretically liquify mammalian species. DARPA would pay millions for this workable EVIL technology. Quantum biology has impossible surprises. For example, the sense of smell was theorized to be a receptor lock and scent molecule key model but quantum biology shows that we can sense the vibration of molecular bonds.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 10:22 AM

The thread title invites us to keep it simple. Now I wonder who came up with it...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 02:55 PM

I enjoy simple pleasures, ideas, and perseverance toward successful discoveries.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 03:46 PM

Your perseverance would pay off if you took heed of evidence as opposed to half-digested and unexamined "facts." Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 23 - 07:05 PM

Help would pertain to mentioning discoveries, not writing nonsense about me. Questions ARE GOOD, like about what happens to your climate when the gulf stream slows down or stops when fresh water melt will flow rapidly from GREENLAND.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 08:40 AM

… Poor old grand-dad
I laughed at all his words
I thought he was a bitter man
He spoke of Donuel's ways
… He'll trap you, then he'll use you
And before you even know
For love isn't kind and you're far too blind
Don't ever let it show
… I wish you knew what is happening now
Now that you're older
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger
But backstage back on earth again
The dressing rooms are gray
… Ideas come on strong and it ain't too long
For they make you feel abandoned
love isn't kind and you soon will find
You're just a boy again
… I wish you knew what is happening now
Now that you're older
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger
… When you see dark energy, you get a look
At the wonder where you are
If you want some more don't be fast asleep
We all twinkle with the stars
… Poor young grandson
There's nothing I can say
You'll have to learn, just like me
And that's the hardest way
… I wish you knew what is happening now
Now that you're older
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger
… I wish you knew what is happening now
Now that you're older
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger
… Ooh la la
Ooh la la
Ooblahdi Ooblada...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 06:07 PM

Here's a head scratcher from NIH: A study was done on the viral content of European baby poop. They found a host of previously undiscovered or unidentified viruses.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 07:42 PM

The CDC reports a huge biological risk to Sudanese soldiers who captured a level 3 bio lab in Khartoum.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 23 - 05:20 PM

On the Matt Rinaldi Tv show in Rochester NY I was the first to say that Ronald Reagan was suffering from organic brain disease, a full two years before Nancy's famous letter about his Alzheimers. The rest of the panel was aghast and denied the possibility fervently.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Apr 23 - 05:56 PM

Wow. We have a long-distance doctor, a visionary, a super-astrophysicist and, I dare say, a soothsayer on our website, all rolled up in one bloke who doesn't even use mushrooms any more. It's wonderful and I feel I should be bowing my head in admiration.


Oh, hang on...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 23 - 06:55 AM

Fire, the printing press, and nuclear weapons changed human society forever. Just as powerful a technology is computer general intelligence which is a short distance beyond artificial intelligence.
How do we control something more powerful than us forever?
Expect close calls and accidents.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 23 - 07:14 AM

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/05/01/can-ai-be-regulated

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 02 May 23 - 07:18 AM

How do you sleep at night knowing that AI may be lurking in your closet.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 May 23 - 08:34 AM

When I was a student working on the parks in the early 70s, one of the gardeners was sounding off about how he didn't need our bloody degrees, etc., because he had common sense. He went on to tell us that he had letters after his name anyway.

Impressed, we asked him what they were.

"AI," said he.

"Wow, great! What do the letters stand for?"

"Artificial Inseminator."

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 23 - 01:11 PM

See where you are in space

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 23 - 11:11 PM

'We have a visionary, a super-(cosmologist) and'... You forgot a therapeutic hypnotist for 12 years.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 May 23 - 04:07 AM

Ah, sorry. Anything else I've forgotten? Are you a shaman, a witch doctor and a medium? Do you do faith healing? How much do you charge?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 May 23 - 04:56 AM


Wow. We have a long-distance doctor, a visionary, a super-astrophysicist and, I dare say, a soothsayer on our website ....

You forgot a therapeutic hypnotist for 12 years.

Ah, sorry. Anything else I've forgotten? Are you a shaman, a witch doctor and a medium? Do you do faith healing?


I can't remember which way round it was - it might have been both - but I seem to recall something on the lines of:

Supplier of services to/subject of investigation by the FBI/CIA.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 May 23 - 06:45 AM

Checking back on some old threads, it would appear to be an approach by the CIA, which was refused, and investigations by numerous intelligence agencies, including the FBI. Clearly a person of some significance.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 May 23 - 07:17 AM

And übermeister of the utterly hilarious joke, lest we forget...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 04 May 23 - 07:36 AM

His self-proclaimed status as a comic genius is hardly surprising given his claim to be of the same tribe as Bruce, Carlin and Pryor.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 23 - 10:56 AM

When interviewed I said that the CIA often believes that perception is reality and that is gobbledegook that invites blowback The Democrat and Chronicle led with..."The CIA is gobbledegook says hypnotist". I don't know how that resonated favorably or not, but that year began a recruitment campaign that lasted 6 months and employed 3 different kinds of persuasion. The last phase was intimidation and high-tech violence.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 23 - 11:05 AM

The rest of the post will not display no matter where I have tried.
Not even as a PM.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 May 23 - 11:17 AM

The rest of the post will not display no matter where I have tried.

Perhaps you could post a long message in separate posts, one paragraph at a time, with an indication that it is linked to the previous or subsequent paragraph.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 May 23 - 01:19 PM

Soothsayer? Precognitionista? Prophet without honour in your own or any other country? Interpreter of tarot cards? Tea leaves? Feeler of bumps?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 23 - 03:31 PM

Basically, the post said Doug was correct and then spoke about 2 FBI investigations as well as helping them regarding hijack prevention and local police assistance in the use of hypnosis with memory in testimony.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 23 - 03:53 PM

The error message from the verbotten post was a 505 so I don't suspect something deliberate by an outsider.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 23 - 06:15 PM

The particular kind of testimony I addressed was for rape victims, who were treated horribly or dismissed back in the day. A reluctant Sergeant was selected to be trained but there was a difficult cultural divide..

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 23 - 07:47 PM

So Doug is basically correct. I do not know if my decision was correct but I was too wary to go along. As for the F** I was investigated regarding my remarks about Ronald Reagan and diminished capacity. Even our own Joe contacted the FBI over what I said about Justice C. I have also volunteered help to law enforcement regarding information gathering and the F** about limiting a hijack threat. There are better ways to do things and it is up to us to help make those changes. How we treat and don't treat the mentally ill is a case in point. Putting them in solitary confinement after imprisonment is one of the worst ways

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 23 - 08:06 PM

"How do you sleep at night knowing that AI may be lurking in your closet."

Just because you don't know that AI will affect 300 million jobs you shouldn't be snarky. The White House is having a crisis meeting with tech CEOs Friday.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 04 May 23 - 09:15 PM

I'm well aware of the threat of AI, Don but you were rattling on about it like Chicken Little.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 23 - 06:57 AM

We disagree, I believe if you don't have something to hide don't hide it.

Besides didn't chicken little warn against an asteroid?
Asteroids are rare now but world-changing.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 23 - 01:36 PM

You guys have never presented evidence of my making stuff up. When you are confused by sarcasm or speculation you make your own assumptions. I say your naive denial of facts presents the danger of ignorance or succumbing to your own propaganda. When your own lies become your facts it is a fact you are living a lie. Such is the nature of political education. At least I am glad that you are not all extreme vaccine deniers. "Where there is life there is hope" quote John Lennon.

Speculation is made clear and is separate from facts in my book. It is no fault of mine when you don't know the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 May 23 - 02:36 PM

Gosh, if only you DID make things clear. Au contraire, your modus operandi is deliberate obfuscation combined with half-truths and downright misinformation. If you can't see it in yourself you should listen to others here who are more measured than you are. Words such as baby and bathwater spring to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 May 23 - 02:37 PM

You guys have never presented evidence of my making stuff up.

Subject: RE: BS: The next big thing
From: Donuel - PM
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:38 AM

I was an inventor myself ................

My ideas led eventually to the Chohlear implant.


My reply at the time:

Subject: RE: BS: The next big thing
From: Doug Chadwick - PM
Date: 10 Sep 20 - 09:53 PM

The first cochlear implant was developed in 1957, when you were about 6 years old. Precocious little fellow, weren't you Donuel?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 May 23 - 02:43 PM

Well, maybe not exactly "at the time". I hadn't realised how old the original thread was.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 23 - 02:55 PM

You made up that thd death rate of Covid was 34%.

Want me to give a link?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 05 May 23 - 04:29 PM

And weren't you recently called out for exaggerating the nature of a new Kentucky gun law.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 23 - 06:51 PM

Through Kodak Labs tiger team engineering group my Cochlear device idea was an external approach without surgery. I lost track of its development when it was sold to Litton Inc. I did find out that synthesesia problems could not be overcome while an internal device provided many advantages. I don't know about 1957 but it must have been a clunky analog device. Great advances were done in the mid-seventies and again after the computer revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 23 - 07:11 PM

Synesthesia can be fun. Imagine a safe electronic weed or magic mushroom-like experience as easy as putting on a hat. With headphones listening to music you could see colors or taste or feel the music tactically. Even ideas that don't work for an intended subject can be applied elsewhere. Its how much of Pharma research works.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 23 - 12:01 PM

Biden is a spring chicken compared to Kissinger.
Trump is a spring chicken compared to his rape victims.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 08 May 23 - 09:55 AM

Life,motherhood, apple pie
Were agreed upon good things.
But death is what AR 15s bring.
and pregnant moms are left to die
Let us save the apple pie as distinct.
Unless bees by poison become extinct
and apple trees are not even pollinated
It seems red states want blue eliminated

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 08 May 23 - 10:04 AM

Walk About Verse confined remarks to one thread.
That seems fine to me even if it all goes unread

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 23 - 11:57 AM

Don't give up the day job.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 May 23 - 07:43 AM

Is any mention of mass shootings now forbidden?
I do not understand the meaning of closing the US shootings thread.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 23 - 08:27 AM

I think it was to do with the bringing up of 'woke wankers' Don. Try a new one.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 May 23 - 10:57 AM

Woke has no singular definition and is too innocuous to be a reason.
Its all too woke to wank. Is it that now is not the time to discuss mass shootings?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 May 23 - 11:47 AM

I’m sure you’re right, Dave - nothing to do with mass shootings in the US, more to do with the use of trigger words in the final post. I sympathise with Al and his wife’s unfortunate treatment, but it’s simply a fact of life that there are words which had one perfectly innocent meaning in past times, but which have another, unacceptable meaning nowadays. For us old-stagers, it’s sometimes a case of ‘tread carefully’… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 May 23 - 03:01 PM

I forget that free speech does not apply here. Even your own remarks here belong to mudcat.org who owns the copyright.

So in jest, I suggest a softening of weapon and fascist language with new associations that should endear the public with new death styles. Authoritarian influencers will shill for new brand-name products and propaganda. Such as:

Hiroshimallows - cookies that explode in your mouth
Heinz AK 47 varieties - ketchup
Fruit and Nazis - Trail of Tears Mix
Buy Buy Rabies - bioweapons store
Fast track Anthrax - new and improved
Democracy Silencers - Assault Rifles twice as deadly as AR 15s
Guns R Us - kids' gunstore
Safe Way - Undetectable poison store
Cute Anon - cult
Re Pubicons - pussy grabbing republicans
- irrelevant alarm-
'Slacktivist Manifesto' by Eric Trump
Hitlarious - new word for anything funny

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 May 23 - 03:29 PM

Yaypalm - barbacue fire starter
Sea far - new plastic explosive
Grenadine - liquid explosive sweetener
Hobbesian snacks - chips for authoritarians
Armamint - candy

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 23 - 04:20 PM

499...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 May 23 - 05:23 PM

500…

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 May 23 - 05:45 PM

Twitter is smelling rancid and Musky lately.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 10 May 23 - 07:04 PM

That's Hitlarious spell check.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 12 May 23 - 07:52 PM

I learned there are 50,000 sub-sea volcanos, The eruption at Tonga led to the discovery. While only 10 are active in our lifetime, volcanos will have to be added the the complex global warming equation.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 May 23 - 08:31 PM

What are you talking about? Only ten? Utter nonsense. As for their impact on climate change, they've been erupting since time immemorial and can't be factored into the discussion on climate change. Unless, of course, you're the kind of charlatan who would rather like to, because it might seem to exonerate the effects of humanity...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 12 May 23 - 10:13 PM

Severe eruptions have drastically lowered global temperatures at least 3 times in the last 2,000 years.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 23 - 04:09 AM

How do we know that is true, Donuel? Given your record of making things up, you know that most people will disbelieve it.

And what does it matter if it did anyway given that, in the last 20000 years, temperature on land rose by 1.59°C while over the ocean it rose only by 0.88°C (Source Wikipedia)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 23 - 05:34 AM

Mount Pinatubo went off with a VE6 bang (a big one, in other words) on my fortieth birthday in 1991. Global temperatures dropped by about 0.5°C for a year or two. A couple of things. That's quite a drop but it's not drastic, and it was temporary. Second, there are plenty of factors that can affect global temperatures, La Niña and El Niño for example, as well as the state of the atmospheric circulation at the time of things such as eruptions. So who knows whether it was one thing or a combination of things which caused the dip. If we stick to the science we know and avoid sweeping statements, with sensationalist words such as "drastic" left out, we might edge nearer to the truth, eh, Donuel? Oh, and give us your details of those eruptions.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 23 - 06:03 AM

Sorry for the typo 20000=2000

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 23 - 06:50 AM

Can you lend me £2000, Dave? Just write the cheque in a hurry...   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 23 - 07:23 AM

My favourite eruption of all time is the Campanian Ignimbrite of 40,000 years ago. It left a caldera eight miles across, mostly under the sea these days in the Gulf of Pozzuoli near Naples, about twelve miles from Vesuvius. On land the main bit still left is the Solfatara crater near Pozzuoli. We scared ourselves to death by visiting it in 2013. It's full of fumaroles and boiling mud pools. San Gennaro, the patron saint of Naples, was beheaded there in the fourth century. You can see his bones sticking out of a big urn in the crypt of the Duomo in Naples. The crater has been closed since 2017 following a terrible accident which killed three members of a family when the ground gave way. The whole area is seismically active and Pozzuoli was largely evacuated in the early 1980s when the ground heaved up by two metres. It went down again but a watchful eye is kept. The Campanian Ignimbrite might have chilled the planet by a degree for a year or two and it's been implicated in hastening the demise of the Neanderthals. Sophia Loren came from Pozzuoli. It's good round there!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 May 23 - 07:48 AM

12 or so years ago I was explaining quantum movement here and referred to this actual experiment that resembled quantum particle waves.
QUANTUM PARTICLE WAVES SEEN WITH HUMAN EYES
Even the peculiar pilot waves can be seen!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 May 23 - 08:02 AM

Here is a deeper view of the same experiment.oil droplets pm vibrating substrate

What I find most telling of the 'universe' is the vibrating substrate.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 May 23 - 10:29 AM

For the advanced scientist, this discussion by Maudlin points out the importance of philosophy to point out hidden false assumptions. Once again this is for folks who are willing to go all the way down the rabbit hole. Tim Maudlin

He shows how the particle or wave question covered up the truth that it has always been both. The schools that just tell students to 'shut up and calculate' murder creativity and truth. He even mentions how matter is an emergent state of the energetic substrate of the universe. The concept of field theory began as the notion of an 'ether' in days past.

The question of the deterministic and nondeterministic nature of reality is a favorite of mine and explains a lot pf my POV.

My memory can recreate the words of a past post but can not accurately place a date in time. Basically, you were amused by my description but did not grasp the meaning and implications. Thats OK, no one can grasp the entirety of quantum mechanics. Not even Einstien.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 23 - 07:08 PM

So who here are the advanced scientists?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 23 - 09:25 AM

Surely a presentation to advanced scientists should not be on a KISS thread anyway. This is supposed to be about making either science or Donuel's thoughts on science easy to understand. Isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 23 - 09:39 AM

Just. Ignore. Him.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 23 - 11:54 AM

The only thing necessary for the triumph of Mudcat trolls is that good men do nothing :-D

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 May 23 - 11:57 AM

He shows how the particle or wave question covered up the truth that it has always been both. The schools that just tell students to 'shut up and calculate' murder creativity and truth

I remember being taught about the dual nature of matter in my A level physics class, back in the 1960s. It's shrouded in the mists of time but the name de Broglie comes to mind. It didn't seem to me that anyone was trying to hide anything.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 23 - 01:34 PM

‘Good Men’ don’t seem to be having much of positive effect on him, Dave. Just giving him encouragement.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 14 May 23 - 02:49 PM

Few people have the imagination to see reality
Quote: Goethe
I have often thought that humans have not identified all the elementary particles. Almost all the ones we have realized have an antiparticle. The interaction of these elementary sub-particles is what quantum field theory is about.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 23 - 02:49 PM

Watching Marvel's "Quantumania'. Makes as much sense as anything on here and is fam more entertaining:-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 14 May 23 - 02:50 PM

As Richard Feynman found, anti-particles mathematically could be said to be moving backward in time, not that they actually were, but it was a good tool to incorporate their value in math. There are many such tools to aid understanding. Space for example can be called a field with points of existence. Perturbations in that field can be called waves. These tools for learning are 'made up' but they are agreed upon lies compared to reality. AlsoI suspect there are far more bosons than are in the standard model

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 14 May 23 - 03:07 PM

This is the tac I am currently taking to look into an alternative view of dark matter. The Marvel universe incorporates science in their plots. The multiverse is science but it is not a fact.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 May 23 - 07:06 AM

I wanted to say something about Goethe but we seem to be back to being able to post short things only.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 15 May 23 - 07:55 AM

What's a "tac"? Did you leave out the tic?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 15 May 23 - 11:43 AM

Reports from the color blind (red-green or all grey scale) are coming in that magic mushrooms enhance color perception from weeks to months.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 23 - 12:54 PM

I never knew colour perception was measured in timescales!

I live and learn...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 15 May 23 - 03:25 PM

This is your brain on drugs, to recall an old PSA.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 May 23 - 05:02 PM

Another try with my Goethe post...

?Hmm. Great man though Goethe undoubtedly was, he was very much up his own bottom when it came to his pronouncements on what he regarded as philosophical matters. There are hundreds of millions of people who not only understand the gritty reality of life but who also have to live it day after day. Sitting in your ivory tower musing about the higher flights of what you regard as reality is, well, just a bit unreal, ironically. A contemporary of Goethe who suffered the privations of chronic ill-health and unrequited love, and who died at a much younger age, produced far greater art than Goethe and never bothered to make high-flown pronouncements about the deficits of his fellow humans. His name was Ludwig van Beethoven. He and Goethe knew each other and didn't get on. I'm not surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 15 May 23 - 10:56 PM

The tenuous, outermost layer of the solar atmosphere — spike upwards of 2 million degrees Fahrenheit, while just 1,000 miles below, the underlying surface simmers at a balmy 10,000 F.
The reason for this has been discovered. The reason is remarkable.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 23 - 08:24 AM

This is the 2018 article from which you extracted your opening line, Donuel. Listening to the talk it seems that the coronal heating problem was put down to either Alfvén waves or nano flares with many scientists thinking that it was a combination of both. The latest news that I can find, from 24 March 2022, is that The Sun's Puzzling Heating Problem Is Closer to Being Solved but still remains a puzzle. Do you have later information?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 23 - 01:09 PM

The breaking and connection of electromagnetic lines of force


In internet parlance, a troll is generally defined as a person who posts abusive, insulting, inflammatory, extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community.


??? ???? ????? ?? ?? ????? ????
An analysis of a very large number of trolls reveals that, contrary to a benign belief, their purpose is not amusement, annoying others, drawing attention, or to disrupt a discussion by a foolish contradiction of common knowledge; rather they are driven by motives that are nothing but sinister.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 23 - 01:43 PM

Trolling, is also a way of demonstrating their numerical strength and thus constitutes an indirect threat that they will prevail by sheer numbers, if not by merit.

That is why the conventional wisdom of not feeding the trolls by simply ignoring them or not responding to them does little to them. Isolated trolls could be ignored, not thousands of them. Moreover, since many of them contain implicit or explicit threats of violence and sexual violence, some of them might need to be reported to the police also.

Personality traits

Many trolls are actually dangerously depraved people because their viciousness is agenda-driven. Whatever they write, they write deliberately, not on impulse, and this puts more purpose into it.

For them the online virtual world is just an extension of the real world where they do horrible things. Dr. Jennifer Golbeck of the University of Maryland writes that trolling is linked with the ‘Dark Tetrad’ of personality traits.


The ‘Dark Triad’ of personality traits is characterised by psychopathy (continuous anti-social behaviour, impulsivity, selfishness, callous and unemotional traits and remorselessness), Machiavellianism (manipulation and exploitation of others, an absence of morality, unemotional callousness, and a higher level of self-interest) and Narcissism (by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy).

Adding sadism (cruel or demeaning behaviour to others, or intentionally inflicts physical, sexual, or psychological pain or suffering on others in order to assert power and dominance or for pleasure and enjoyment) makes up the ‘Dark Tetrad’.

In the early years of online forums, posting insults and profanity was called flaming and its more aggravated form was called “shitposting”. Then there was “hit-and-run posting” where someone posted something offensive and then disappeared.

We also had online shaming and cyberbullying in which targets were publicly humiliated or harassed. It would be a serious mistake to think that trolling of the kind we encounter in India is a virulent form of self-righteousness, as some people believe—they have obviously not seen the muck here.

trolls do not leave any doubt that they hate their targets so much that they would like to do horrible things to them and their ilk. Anonymity on the internet leads to the online toxic disinhibition effect, which makes the darker side of their personality burst forth easily because of pack mentality.

In his article ‘How the internet created an age of rage’, Tim Adams cites Tom Postmes, professor of social and organisational psychology at the universities of Exeter and Groningen.

Postmes says, “Trolls aspire to violence, to the level of trouble they can cause in an environment. They want it to kick off. They want to promote antipathetic emotions of disgust and outrage, which morbidly gives them a sense of pleasure.”

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 23 - 01:47 PM

The Alfvén waves are electromagnetic lines of force and have been known about for a long time. They are thought to contribute to the coronal heating problem but do not fully explain it. Nano flares also contribute but again do not fully explain the phenomenon. Experts seem to agree that we are closer to solving the problem but are not there yet.

I shall ask again. Do you have more up to date information?

The rest of your post makes no sense in this context so it is best ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 23 - 02:17 PM

What is new is the revelation that electromagnetic activity happens on a scale that goes down to scales too small for our instruments to resolve. In years past only large lines of force were observed. Assuming a resolution down to atomic scales, the energy-temperature relationship works. A knowledge of the energy increase caused by a twisting of magnetic fields might be applied elsewhere in human exploration.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 23 - 04:02 PM

Yes, we know that Don. It is there in both articles I linked. But the phrase you started with is "The reason for this has been discovered". Again, both the article you were quoting from and the one I subsequently linked state quite clearly that the coronal heating problem has NOT been solved yet. The reason has NOT been discovered as far as I can see. For the third time, do you have any information more up to date that March 2022?

I don't know where you copied your long diatribe on trolls from, have no intention of finding who you have plagiarised and have no idea what you hope to achieve by it.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 16 May 23 - 06:09 PM

He's trolling as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 23 - 06:40 PM

In internet parlance, a troll is generally defined as a person who posts abusive, insulting, inflammatory, extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 23 - 06:47 PM

An 11 foot sea rise was predicted 250 years from now.
That time line could be cut in half or more with the data coming in from the western Antarctic glacier melting.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 23 - 06:59 PM

btw It was discovered the Earth orbits the Sun and not the other way around. It's an oldie but goodie.

Extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community are trollish in my book.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 23 - 07:01 PM

So I guess there is no more up to date information and "The reason for this has been discovered" is not really true then.

Sigh. I really thought you had some new news. You fooled me.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 May 23 - 07:07 PM

He copied the troll diatribe from The Wire. The article is all about trolling in India and I can't help thinking it was written by a victim. As for "An 11 foot sea rise was predicted 250 years from now" I can't stick around for 250 years waiting for that prediction to be made. On the other hand, I should like to see the modelling that supports that prediction. If conditions on earth worsen to the extent that a sea level rise of that magnitude comes about quickly, we'll have a lot more to worry about than just that.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 23 - 03:00 AM

"Extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community are trollish in my book."

Once again posted with no hint of irony :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 23 - 07:33 AM

I find wisdom in anecdotal evidence. Some of the greatest baseball champions have a neurological advantage in seeing fast things in slow motion. Like ear training, it is something many can learn. It can happen in emergencies like witnessing a 90mph car accident. I recall watching a man spill out the back seat as the car started cartwheeling and seeing him slide on his butt down the meridian with wide eyes going 80 mph. As a child, I saw what I called lightning people. In college, I could speed up my vision until the flicker of fluorescent light became individual flashes. These kinds of experiences can be called phenomenology since they are aspects of consciousness. Some things are experiential and not a fact for everyone all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 23 - 08:43 AM

I was watching a show called secrets under the ice when the concern about the western Antarctic glaciers melting was shown. It looked kosher to me. I wouldn't buy land in Florida.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 23 - 09:06 AM

I used to watch Oscar Levant on the Jack Parr show. I am delighted a play, 'Goodnight Oscar' will reintroduce this genius to the world.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 17 May 23 - 09:10 AM

Real Estate doesn't look like a good long term investment down here but Florida led the nation in immigration last year. I won't be around to see the sequel to the epic flop "Water World" but I pity those who will. Some friends and acquaintances have been pulling up stakes for the mountains of Western North Carolina and I've been thinking of doing that myself.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 17 May 23 - 09:21 AM

Levant played himself in a lukewarm bio pic of his buddy George Gershwin and was the best thing in it, as I recall.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 23 - 09:53 AM

Oscar had a love/hate relationship with Gershwin. Levant dreamed of one day rivaling George in composition but his talents were elsewhere, especially on the piano, in movies, and as a raconteur.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 23 - 10:11 AM

I admired how his genius shown thru his affectations, tics, addiction, and the mental illness of depression.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 23 - 10:29 AM

Extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community are trollish in my book.

Who was it that said that? I can't remember... :-D

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 23 - 01:39 PM

A troll is generally defined as a person who posts abusive, insulting, inflammatory, extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community by engaging in hit-and-run extraneous repetitive noise and ad hominem attacks. I think of Dave as someone's Toadie or a copy cat kitten and not the full-fledged pSyCHo. We need all the serious fantasy writers we can get.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 23 - 01:51 PM

Personal attacks. The failsafe of someone who has nothing left.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 May 23 - 02:49 PM

And who's that "someone," Donuel?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 23 - 03:31 PM

So you all know that this is an extremely flawed thread and if you're here duking it out I will presume you want to get in there and verbally duke it out and subject yourselves to insults. I've weeded out some in the past but I don't read this every day. If you don't like the state of this discourse, there are many other fine threads running on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 23 - 04:08 PM

I don't believe that you are saying that anything goes on this thread, Stilly. Are you?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 23 - 05:45 PM

Wrong question. It should be "is this the kind of thread that any moderator is actually interested in reading in order to be the playground monitor." No, it isn't. There are some interesting tidbits dropped in here, and I wish each of you would stick with the interesting stuff and

ignore the nonsense.

Some of you have spent a lot of time insulting each other here and when someone complains and I look at the most recent complaint then work my way back, I find alternating insults exchanged and am frankly not interested in pruning out the nonsense and then seeing if it all still "makes sense." When someone complains I look at who threw the first punch? It depends entirely on how far back in the thread I end up going. It's filled with ad hominem insults. Stop attacking each others' characters and discuss the simple ideas or ignore them and move on.

It's either get along or close the thread. Entirely up to all of you.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 May 23 - 06:03 PM

The thread is very unfocused in the sense that, because of the way its originator is behaving with his random inputs, it's impossible to "go off-topic." I know that you try to accentuate the positive with him, Maggie, and that's laudable. But the half-baked science, the uninformed assertions and the puffing of the chest regarding the quasi-mystical skills he claims to possess are at the core of the nonsense you refer to. You're almost certainly right when you say we should ignore it, but please don't equate the rest of us with him in a blanket characterisation of the nonsense, and don't be too surprised when some of us bite back at his "if you don't believe in Donuel you're a trolling idiot" insinuations!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 23 - 06:39 PM

There are no innocent parties here - you can choose to ignore the parts that don't make sense. I'm not defending what Don posts, I just skip past the parts that don't interest me. It's a BS thread, so the bar is low (or non-existent) and perhaps my own background with stream-of-consciousness-filled conversations (a family trait?) makes it easier to ignore. You should do the same. When anyone decides to make a stand they're setting up an altercation that isn't pretty and doesn't contribute anything useful or interesting. Just move on.

Political smears, hate speech, and other things that get people kicked out aren't happening here.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 23 - 06:41 PM

Agreed Stilly and I hold up my hands, to apologise for my input into the fracas. Lets rewind to what I thought was a sensible question. I am not redoing the links as anyone can go back to the original posts.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 16 May 23 - 08:24 AM

This is the 2018 article from which you extracted your opening line, Donuel. Listening to the talk it seems that the coronal heating problem was put down to either Alfvén waves or nano flares with many scientists thinking that it was a combination of both. The latest news that I can find, from 24 March 2022, is that The Sun's Puzzling Heating Problem Is Closer to Being Solved but still remains a puzzle. Do you have later information?

I am interested in following this up as I think it is one of the "interesting tidbits". So, no diversion into trolling or other nonsense. Donuel, do you have any further information that was not discussed in those articles that leads you to believe your assertion that "The reason for this (coronal heating problem) has been discovered. The reason is remarkable."? If so can you please point me in the right direction. If not, a simple no will do. The fate of the thread is now in your hands!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 23 - 06:53 PM

Everything is copasetic. The rainbow of scientific views is as wide as
the electrodynamic spectrum. God forbid if it were ever focused.
A collection of curious notions is more interesting than cosmology 24/7. For me, it's like a crossword puzzle to sharpen my memory.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 23 - 06:59 PM

Dave, I think the answer you got just now boils down to "no." Try entering some of the keywords on this topic into Google Scholar. You can filter the results to books, articles, films, etc. And let us know what you find.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 23 - 06:59 PM

But this thread is about keeping it simple so can you just tell me, simply, what new information you have on the coronal heating problem.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 23 - 07:28 PM

The mysteries in life is the stuff of great Art.
Appreciating the Art of mysteries is simple.
You do or don't.
I'm about whats next.
If I am right about a conclusion I am as surprised as anyone
All glory or discovery is fleeting.
The rest is your usual bag of trouble/problems.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 23 - 07:56 PM

As I said in fewer words, the magnification of heat energy by millions of times like in the sun's corona by twisting and breaking magnetic fields is a big deal. What if...it was applied to forming plasma in a fusion reaction generator? Or some other application. Magnifying heat energy is a powerful tool. Just don't ask me exactly how...I don't know. Amplifiers are hot but never this hot.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 May 23 - 02:18 AM

I did that, Stilly, and the answers I found were linked in my first post on this subject. I was intrigued by what I found and wanted to know what extra information Donuel had found to conclude that the problem had been solved. I think you are right to surmise that there is none. I am disappointed but glad I fact checked. I am no wiser as to the cause of coronal heating but now know much more about Donuel's "facts". You win some, you lose some :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 May 23 - 02:24 AM

Dave, maybe RefDesk: Fact Checker for the Internet will help. I have the link in my bookmarks but often forget it's there. A very simple page format, all linked text, but keep scrolling down and you'll find several places that might give you a starting point for some of the clarification or debunking you want to do for this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 23 - 07:31 AM

The most contentious subject is consciousness. People can be empowered by new understanding or scared by it. Denial is the default setting for all brains. We usually ignore 99% of what we perceive. Perception and consciousness are separate systems and are united only when the entire brain is fully involved. So you only really see 1% of your visual field, the rest is an illusion created by the brain. Your eyes move 3 times a second and sample different areas 1% at a time. Colors are the last to be interpreted in areas forward from the rear occipital areas. Compromises are made by the brain when background colors are compared. Thats why the blue dress looked gold to some but not others. Who is the boss of your brain is the question that can be most challenging to many people. WE'LL GO THERE NEXT.
For Dave: It is forever true regarding the fact that some information may be new to you but not others and vice versa.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 23 - 08:18 AM

I was surprised to learn that every time we access a long-term memory our brain has to reconstruct it. By looking at it we diminish it.
Memories fade and can change when they are poorly reconstructed.
I

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 May 23 - 01:55 PM

Write them down and that helps with their durability.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 May 23 - 01:08 PM

But write them down in private please... :-D

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 23 - 06:36 PM

AI MRIs can read minds.
source: New York Times

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 23 - 06:51 PM

It takes at least 16 hours. But it works!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 23 - 07:04 PM

I've also watched the interview with the originator scientist and the ethical concerns from another scientist.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 23 - 07:15 PM

Bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 23 - 07:35 PM

dear lord rutherford, your skepticism is unfounded and is again objectively WRONG.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 May 23 - 08:38 AM

"AI MRIs can read minds."

That is nothing but a sensationalist headline. You cannot support that in any detail whatsoever with proper sources, simply because it isn't true. I'd like to say that it's your usual half-baked nonsense, but it isn't even that.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 May 23 - 09:06 AM

Teens are said to be exposed to and cause toxic social media. You sir are a toxic teen in the social media sphere.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 May 23 - 09:38 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/may/01/ai-makes-non-invasive-mind-reading-possible-by-turning-thoughts-into-text

Steve warning
If you click you will own your guilt of spreading misinformation

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 May 23 - 10:03 AM

So, you've read that, have you? And you came away from reading it to tell us the MRIs can "read our minds"? All I can suggest is that you read it again, properly this time.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 May 23 - 10:34 AM

The history of lie detection in America from the 30s to the 70s was a big deal and virtually absent in Europe. I was subjected to the rigamarole several times. It was promoted by 2 pioneers in the field.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 May 23 - 12:11 PM

The lie detector was actual bullshit but became a favorite of corporate America because it sometimes inspired confessions.

AI MRI technology actually reveals the gist of what people are thinking and provides a narrative. I do not know how a subject could manipulate results but time will tell as well as authoritarian's abuse of the tech.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 May 23 - 02:43 PM

Here's the gist: "Prof Shinji Nishimoto, of Osaka University, who has pioneered the reconstruction of visual images from brain activity, described the paper as a “significant advance”. “The paper showed that the brain represents continuous language information during perception and imagination in a compatible way,” he said. “This is a non-trivial finding and can be a basis for the development of brain-computer interfaces."

Improving upon its current ability is a fairly alarming concept. At the very least, it would mean another leap into the unknown.

I have my reservations concerning Elon Musk but when he's talking about the dangers of AI, he is convincing.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 May 23 - 04:14 PM

I think Donuel ought to refer to a reliable dictionary in order to look up the word "gist."

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 21 May 23 - 04:05 PM

I am not an expert on AI BUT I have been following its progress for a decade.
I suggest listening to the American MRI AI Researcher interview on MSNBC Ari Melber last week.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 23 - 06:02 PM

Well you do seem to be a self-styled expert on all sorts of things, so I suppose I should salute your temporary outbreak of humility.

The thing about MRI scans reading our minds has two aspects. First, MRI scans can't read our minds. Duh. Second, the scaremongers seem to be forgetting that no-one can actually be forced into an MRI scanner.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 22 May 23 - 12:42 AM

OH I see how you are terribly mistaken. It is the AI algorithm that associates brain activity to certain words not the MRI. Then the AI runs the algorithm in reverse.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 23 - 04:43 AM

So now it can be done without an MRI scanner, eh? What are you saying? Do make your confused mind up. By the way, this is not even getting close to mind-reading. You should get a job as a gutter tabloid headline writer.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 23 - 06:06 AM

I knew you were going to say that...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 22 May 23 - 06:23 AM

Bad boy of letters and bleak sarcastic humor, a friend of Christopher Hitchins and Salmon Rushdie, Martin Amis dies at 73.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 May 23 - 01:11 PM

Extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community are trollish in my book.

How does

Bad boy of letters and bleak sarcastic humor, a friend of Christopher Hitchins and Salmon Rushdie, Martin Amis dies at 73.

fit into a thread about simplifying alternative explanations?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 23 - 04:24 PM

Don't ask, Doug...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 22 May 23 - 06:52 PM

Martin was a kindred spirit. Perhaps you do not recognize a countryman. Thanks for the compliments and inanities.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 23 - 08:12 PM

Amis never seemed to settle on an opinion. Just like those Hollywood stars who think they understand the world but who should really stick to acting, Martin should have stuck to writing his books.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 23 May 23 - 06:43 AM

The irascible Martin did not produce the movie adaptation, Hollywood did. There’s that Henry de Montherlant quote: “Happiness writes in white ink on a white page.” But that suggests happiness is an ineffable state, and I don’t think it is. Curiosity is more what you need, and a sense of wonder that is constantly replenished. It’s when that runs out that you die as a writer.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 23 May 23 - 09:24 AM

New synthetic sapphires and quantum computers are used to see dark matter. https://scitechdaily.com/u-s-dept-of-energy-breakthrough-detecting-dark-matter-with-quantum-computers/

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 May 23 - 08:16 PM

The mystery that captures the imagination just as much as the search for habitable exoplanets is that of the dark universe, specifically dark matter, which is the mysterious substance held responsible for the extra gravity observed in galaxies and galaxy clusters, and dark energy, the unknown force that is driving the acceleration in the expansion of the universe.

"We think that about 75% of the whole energy-matter content of the universe is this mysterious thing that we call dark energy, and another 20% is this other mysterious stuff called dark matter," said Milam. "When astronomers don't know what something is, we label it dark. It's astounding … the hundreds of billions of galaxies and the trillions of stars and countless planets, all of that only makes up about 5% of the whole universe. And the rest, the other 95%, we don't know what it is."

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 23 - 09:23 AM

The Complete GUIDE TO THE MAGA CULTURE WAR:
Pardon all convicts victimized by the weaponization of law
Defund FBI, DOJ, and replace the CONSTITUTION
REMOVE WOMEN'S RIGHTS TO HEALTHCARE
Destroy all woke books, media, and Democracy
Make MAGA history the only true history
Keep .... the following goals a secret
Take away all women's right to vote
Remove all women's right to serve
Make our President serve for life
Make minorities NOT MATTER
Make blacks slaves again
Remove the courts
Burn the jews

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 23 - 09:34 AM

Goals still in consideration:
Make men toxic again
Make White Power
permanent even as
a minority

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 May 23 - 09:41 AM

You need a nice lie down.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 23 - 12:06 PM

ELON MUSK has finalized the manufacture of the Neurolink.
It is not yet approved by the FDA but trials will be by volunteers.

The Neurolink will create the Transhuman by making the brain a digital hybrid. With the gender wars the term Transhuman is subject to change.
Having access to all digital data and being able to download results by merely thinking of them has major implications such as creating a virtual new species.
Three major questions will arise in the transhuman:
1. Can mind uploading maintain personal identity keeping one's personal subjective personal experience?
2. Can nonbiological AI systems be conscious?
3. Should nonbiological intelligence have moral standing and rights?

Or will we make a new slave class of AI intelligence?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 23 - 12:19 PM

The neuro link is surgically implanted in a sub-cranial location.
https://6abc.com/elon-musk-neuralink-brain-implant-human-test-subject/13305681/#:~:text=the%20Neuralink%20device.-,The%20device%

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 May 23 - 06:39 AM

In my opinion the process will depend upon a massive amount of micro wires that will connect to various crucial areas of the brain. It is surprising that the brain adapts to this 'intrusion' as well as it does.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 23 - 07:21 AM

Big Brother is watching. Your daily reality is that you are recorded outside your home hundreds or thousands times. Society is thoroughly accustomed to it even inside our homes on the internet.
"War is peace,” “Freedom is slavery,” and “Ignorance is strength” is the rest of the societal training.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 23 - 07:34 AM

"War is peace", in Russia, if you call Ukraine a war you get many years in prison. Freedom is slavery, especially with institutional racism. “Ignorance is strength" is apparent in Trumpism, the QAnon movement, and the GOP.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 23 - 03:00 PM

The Pentagon wants more/different UAP DATA.
https://defensescoop.com/2023/05/31/pentagon-office-developing-new-sensors-to-better-detect-ufos/

My suggestion is to use LIDAR.
They are still running into the 75 year old stigma of being afraid of being called crazy.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 23 - 03:57 PM

Is there a device to measure spacial distortion other than measuring gravity waves?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 04 Jun 23 - 10:35 AM

> Is there a device to measure spacial distortion other than measuring
> gravity waves?

Gravitational lensing? Astrophysicists use the distortions of the object lensed for assessing the mass doing the bending, and iirc can make a good stab at working out what said mass consists of.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 07:20 AM

I'm looking for evidence that UAPs distort space and time beyond mass and energy. Jumping 20 miles in less than a second is not a technology we know about.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 23 - 07:43 AM

There are clues in all aspects of UAP propulsion although I can not unify them. It even seems that some UFOs are vulnerable to Earth's lightning. I do not know how that observation fits into this puzzle.
I am not that smart. We are still stymied after 70 years of taking a scientific look at this phenomenon. However, we think we know certain things. Those things are outside our accepted paradigms.

Was it Asimov who said some technology could appear to be magic?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: