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BS: all airlines grounded in US

Donuel 11 Jan 23 - 07:12 AM
Donuel 11 Jan 23 - 07:19 AM
cnd 11 Jan 23 - 07:49 AM
Donuel 11 Jan 23 - 08:59 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jan 23 - 11:09 AM
cnd 11 Jan 23 - 11:11 AM
Mr Red 12 Jan 23 - 06:25 AM
Donuel 12 Jan 23 - 12:34 PM
Stilly River Sage 13 Jan 23 - 11:45 AM
MaJoC the Filk 13 Jan 23 - 02:32 PM
MaJoC the Filk 13 Jan 23 - 02:40 PM
Donuel 13 Jan 23 - 02:53 PM
Rain Dog 13 Jan 23 - 03:38 PM
Mr Red 17 Jan 23 - 11:39 AM
Mrrzy 17 Jan 23 - 11:48 AM
Mr Red 19 Jan 23 - 05:09 AM
MaJoC the Filk 19 Jan 23 - 03:11 PM
robomatic 23 Jan 23 - 06:08 PM

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Subject: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 07:12 AM

It is incredible that pilots have no communication systems (NOTAMS)
so the FAA has grounded/postponed all flights. It is the first time 'notice to pilots' communication has failed. The system is antiquated and is being updated.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 07:19 AM

They will try to reboot the system by 9 AM.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: cnd
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 07:49 AM

I've been impacted. First time I tried to fly in almost 6 months, got an hour into my flight then we had to turn right back around and land where we started. Flight left at 6 AM EST and landed just after 7:30, so it went down some time between then.

Crazy situation


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 08:59 AM

4,000 delays and about that many cancellations BUT the ground stop has ended. Communications seem restored. Shit rolls downhill.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:09 AM

”Crazy situation”

Not half as crazy as flying with no comms.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: cnd
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:11 AM

My comment implying that the whole situation was crazy, not just one plane turning around


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Jan 23 - 06:25 AM

I wonder - could this be a hack?

Now let me think, who would have the motivation to do that to an antiquated system?

Putin, with his army of criminals in St Petersburg (St Cybersburg) who elected him mayor there.
Kim jong Un laughing under his haircut
Ayatollah Khomeini in revenge for Stuxnet (allegedly)
Venezuela, Cuba?.

As one wag put it elsewhere - Xi - to which I replied "one virus that didn't require pre-testing?"


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 23 - 12:34 PM

It's a popular question but they found corrupted data and fixed it.
My first thought was that the plug came out of the wall.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 11:45 AM

It's pretty damned embarrassing that this has happened twice in two weeks. It's also an illustration of why a lot of these systems need updating.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 02:32 PM

> It's also an illustration of why a lot of these systems need updating.

*Agree*, SRS. That's what comes of relying too much on sticking-plaster engineering.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 02:40 PM

.... half a kludge, half a kludge, half a kludge onward ....


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 02:53 PM

There is alot of improvisational impromptu engineering on the fly in my life but I'm not a professional.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 03:38 PM

Leave that poor fly alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 11:39 AM

Just think, if it is a mission critical file, how subtle is it to corrupt the back-up knowing that one day it will be needed?

OK no-one is admitting liability to it, but wouldn't the CIA know? And would they come clean?

Of course that is just conspiracy theory in high gear. But Putin is a maverick, ya cain't predict mavericks.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 11:48 AM

Excellent treatment on Rsdio IQ today. Cannot find link. I think it was on 1A.


The radio show blicky.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 05:09 AM

On a subtler note:

Modern SSD HDD memory as well as a lot of memory sticks are computer systems in their own write (sic). They contain back-up blocks. When the regular system checks detect a memory cell looking over-worked/aging it swaps out & restores the data for that block.

For a high stakes game it would not be difficult to have its program do things. Getting that HDD into the system at the correct location might prove more troublesome. Though I would expect regular maintenance would dictate system swap-outs. NRAM (the industry std) has an MTBF of maybe 5 years.

And then there are Gamma particles............

It's a vulnerability.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 03:11 PM

> Modern SSD HDD memory as well as a lot of memory sticks are computer
> systems in their own write

Verily. This makes them an absolute bar steward for the operating system, or disc-recovery software, to handle without special pleading, which can lead to interesting problems ....

One thing people often don't realise, even if they're in the trade: SSDs have a different failure mode. Spinning-rust drives wear out a bit at a time; this is visible to the operating system, and to recovery software, so they can cope. SSDs suffer a related form of wear-out, but its internal software hides this by swapping blocks around; the first the computer knows anything's wrong is that the SSD tries this trick once too often and finds it's run out of spare blocks, and the drive goes castors-up en bloc. Upshot: The mean time to first failure of SSDs is now greater than that of spinning rust; but, unlike spinning rust, the first user-visible failure is usually fatal.

Hope this helps, folks. My knowledge may be a couple of years out-of-date, but I think I've got the basics right still (refutations hereby invited). Best insurance: good backups.


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Subject: RE: BS: all airlines grounded in US
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 23 - 06:08 PM

As far as different tech goes, a lot of analog stuff holds on longer than we suspect, as well as many modern digital tech lasts far less than we hope.
Also the reference to planned obsolescence or long planned error introduction / failure is definitely in the tool box of the cyber warrior.

I heard a story that is way before STUXNET. I don't know where it is to be found documented, but I personally believe it happened. In the days of the chilly war, the Russian far east either stole or obtained the microprocessor pattern for a specialized valve control design for controlling some remote pipelines. In plain words they obtained a sophisticated remote controller chip way ahead of their technology. Americans learned of the subterfuge before it actually took place and enabled that an American design got subbed in place. At a time of maximum disruption this controller went badly awry and caused a deal of environmental damage. While I do believe it happened, the details are unknown. I've collected snippets and stories like this over many years. Some of them are far more unpleasant.

Motivations for this are as old as information passing. They start with preventing bad actors, but everyone is a bad actor to some other actor. King David had Uriah carry the message to the front that ensured his own death. Hamlet dealt with Rosencranz and Guildenstern in a similar manner.


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