BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ

Subject: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Feb 23 - 02:09 PM

A modern malady

The floods & devastation in the Hawkes Bay area of NZ is cataclysmic. Few deaths but it is a lesson for when solar flares strike. The big one has yet to point as we happen to pass. This is from a hero who delivered an old spare jalopy to one seriously affected farm.

There were consequences of no power that I hadn’t thought of. You couldn’t use a credit card to pay for anything as no power to the machines. Only cash accepted. But you couldn’t get cash out as no power to ATM machines that dispense cash. All banks closed as no internet. Local cellphone stations were all out, although it was possible to get intermittent reception from distant transmitters from the tops of hills. So a lot of people had absolutely no idea what was going on and had no way of letting people know that they and family were safe (or not). Few people have the old landlines anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Feb 23 - 02:28 PM

Thanks, Mr. Red. That's thought provoking.

What about generators? A bank or gas station could use a generator, couldn't it? It would require planning ahead, but even bankers could figure that out after a while.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Feb 23 - 04:25 PM

Napier is a lovely Art Deco town (rebuilt after a 30s earthquake)

They obviously had petrol as long as they paid cash. And once over the hills towards Hamilton the electricity had not been affected. My niece (and many not too badly affected) were ferrying feed to outlying areas for the animals that survived. Many bridges out - all but 1. I assume they had reserves of cash, their own power was out for a week. She had stocks of food for her business thawing out slowly.

There was one video of a woman calling her cows in and they were swimming to high ground! Milked by hand you can assume.

Bro-in-law says 11 dead, 1000 not accounted for - given the comms, that may not be so bad, with people finding shelter anywhere they can.

Friends with caravan solar topped up phones, I was seeing Fakebook pics of mud & water & OK messages.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Feb 23 - 04:31 PM

Yea I did suggest that roof-top solar was their next project, but the utility there loads their tariffs if they fit PV, even if it only charged an electric car!

When I lived there, outages were common. But that was some time ago.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 23 - 06:05 PM

What i do first thing is have a cup of coffee in my electric coffee maker by boiling water on the gas stove and pouring it in the drip coffee machine. Meanwhile I have an inverter hooked up to the car to power a few lights, fridge and furnace heating blower. (an air conditioner is too much for an inverter) For air you need a 1000 watt generator. A car idling uses very little gas but having 30 gallons of gas on hand is a good idea.

India has declared a state of emergency due to blackouts.

Did I mention all the heavy duty extension cords of 50 feet or more?

Cook and refrigerate as much freezer food as possible.
Fill bathtubs just in case. Remember a water heater is an emergency source of water.

If you have none of these precautions in place you are SOOL.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 25 Feb 23 - 09:34 AM

> A bank or gas station could use a generator, couldn't it?

Local power is only the start of it for banks: the local bank these days isn't much more than a hole-in-the-wall machine with attendants, and your money is all ones and zeros in a computer far, far away. You'd need to have power going to every network relay station between here and there. (I've had cashback requests at a supermarket refused when the network is down.)

BT here are threatening to make all house phones network-based. Nobody has yet convinced me that they'll work in a power cut, even if the network hub in our house is battery-backed.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Feb 23 - 01:59 PM

One old fashioned safety check was that in the old days your landline telephone system was sustained by independent power from the telephone company. Don't know if this is true. We had a major earthquake several years ago and the phone system was up long enough for me to call my kinfolk.

There are folks more or less related to various terrorists who have an attack on the electrical infrastructure in mind. There have been some notable attacks and plans for attacks (60 Minutes in the U.S. has covered them) And of course there are external national threats for these as well. Problem is it's a target rich environment. It may be that the main offence from these is the ability to target the opponents as well.
I worked with a Kiwi (in US) back when Auckland had that major long term power outage. It was unbelievable.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Feb 23 - 01:14 PM

I've got an ex-army signalling mirror somewhere. Too dark to find it if the lights went out and I'd need to learn Morse and have somebody who knew Morse to flash at.

"Timespanner" on FB has been posting pictures from the 1931 Napier quake recently. Making the comparison with the Turkey/Syria quake. One thing I wouldn't have expected was that they had so many disaster tourists in cars that they had parking and traffic problems.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Feb 23 - 01:29 PM

> One old fashioned safety check was that in the old days your landline
> telephone system was sustained by independent power from the telephone
> company. Don't know if this is true.

It was definitely true. The exchange was battery-backed, the handset was (and still is) powered down the wires, and there was nothing but wiring between the two. It only failed if the wires got cut, or all the operators were on strike. In a disaster, at least that's a start.

I remember being on a tour of a small Strowger (mechanical) telephone exchange half a century ago. The power backup was 24 lead-acid cells in series, each cell being basically a five-foot cube; how long this would last, I forget, but it was certainly enough to paper over short power cuts. (Since each cell produced just over two volts, it also explains where the 50V standard for telecoms kit came from.)

How much of a modern exchange is battery-backed, I know not; and long-distance lines these days are usually digital. Those planning such things these days are far too used to mains electricity being reliable.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Feb 23 - 03:28 PM

I think of this as relating to modern (computer controlled) automobiles. Not even referring to potential hacking, I wonder If one can have an electrical failure in a running car and have one's steering become immobilized.

Right now my rented Chevy thinks I'm stealing it every time I open the door so I have to go through a little kabuki set of moves to get it moving.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Mar 23 - 08:26 PM

I worked the levees on a Mississippi River flood. Disaster tourism is REAL! People would lie through their teeth to get in to see the houses flooded to the second story. No offers to help. These are the same people who stop to gawk at an automobile accident while blocking the way of the ambulance, who flock to a fire across town, who fly drones over a wildfire.

We are told to keep 72 hours of food and water on hand -- being in the orbit of Yellowstone earthquakes are definitely possible, as are wildfires. We have our "get out and leave" kits ready as well. And I've put glow-in-the-dark tape on various things like flashlights because when you need them it's usually dark, and you can't find them.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Mar 23 - 02:55 AM

Both my nieces are volunteering with ferrying fodder to cut-off regions. A lot of bridges including rail were wiped out there was only one usable. One niece went all the way to Aukland to get a generator and when they got power back it was donated. Their horse is stabled up in the hills so weathered the situation well. It is as if life is on hold still. One hubby has an IT business, I can only guess but he probably has clients in emergency need right now.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 02:58 PM

I was involved in a North Slope oil project where we were adding a processing station at the limits of the existing network. We obtained the electricity from a powerline but because operators and maintenance crew could be isolated working there and in the event of a powerfailure, we had to have 'spare' power available so there would be preservation of life support (including a watersource and bathroom). I ordered several tons of batteries for the UPS (Uninterruptible Power) portion in addition to an independent generator. Fun job.

I have electrician friends who have provided their houses with a generator they can use if power goes out in the city. Useful for potential earthquakes.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Mar 23 - 06:40 AM

Say what you will about Elon Musk but his Powerwall, Roof PV, Tesla Megapacks etc, are solutions in this context. And as proved useful in Texas - even his cars provided warmth for long enough to get power back recently for some canny families.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Little Robyn
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 08:00 PM

Finally got my cookie back so I can reply.
We were only without power for a couple of days but it was challenging. We have a landline as well as personal phones/computers/devices to communicate with but without power, none of them worked! I had a little old battery powered transistor radio and we had torches and candles so all we could do was sit in the dark and listen to the radio. We didn't really know what was going on - the stupid announcers kept telling us to ring them and they would let our families know we were all OK. If we could ring the radio, we could ring families but with the power station completely under water there was nothing. I don't know of anyone who had a working phone during the storm. Some people are still without power and some homes were totally destroyed. I have a little old camper van which has a gas cooker and solar power so I was able to cook simple meals and make cups of tea or coffee. Our neighbors had nothing so were very grateful when I took them a flask of hot water.
We were lucky, the only real damage was to our peach tree but when the power was turned back on we noticed the hot water tank slowly went cold and the refrigerator warmed up. The local electrician fixed the hot water but we had to buy a new fridge.
There were no petrol stations open for days - as they gradually opened the queues outside were crazy and with roads closed at crucial points, people couldn't get to work. Businesses couldn't open because staff couldn't get there and even the schools were closed for over a week. Our local High School let the juniors return but they didn't have enough teachers for the seniors until some of the roads opened up again.
The official death toll is still 11 but one man is still missing - he was driving north from Napier as the storm was starting and his truck was seen at a petrol station not far from where the big flood came bursting through at Eskdale - he might have been exactly there at that very moment and he would have been swept out to sea with all the mud and forestry slash. So far there is no trace of him or his truck.
The big problem now seems to be waiting for insurance or somebody to help with the cleanup - lots of volunteers but not much action from officials. Apparently insurance won't pay for fencing on farms and each fence post will cost $20 to replace - and farms have hundreds of fence posts.
Hawke's Bay was known as the 'Fruit bowl of New Zealand' but the mud, which included sewage, in some areas has destroyed crops - apples, grapes, corn, pumpkins, onions, tomatoes. If the flood touched any of the food, people were told not to eat it - just destroy it.
In Eskdale the water was up to the roof of some houses and when it subsided the sludge was drying out, up to 3,4 and even 5 foot high. Volunteers are still helping to dig it out. If it's left around the base of the apple trees, I believe it will slowly smother and kill them.
Much of the damage to stop banks and bridges was caused by 'slash' - a waste product from commercial forestry: it is detritus – anything from small branches to whole trees – from logged trees left behind that washed down with the rain and then joined the rivers that flow to the coast. Several bridges including a railway bridge at Clive were totally destroyed - there will be no trains between Napier and Hastings for a long time. Photos of the beaches from here to Gisborne show nothing but tree rubbish - no sand in sight.
It's going to be a long time before life returns to 'normal' - if it ever does.
Robyn in Hastings, NZ

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 08:20 PM

My brother lives in Tirau. They seem to have been OK.

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Little Robyn
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 09:54 PM

Although a national emergency was called, some parts of NZ got off lightly but the eastern part of the North Island was the worst hit. BUT, if the forestry debris had not washed down the rivers, the bridges would have been still standing and the stop banks should have held. I'm not sure if the power station might have been drowned - where it is positioned, probably that might still have happened.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: when you don't have electricity - NZ
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Mar 23 - 02:32 AM

The reverse problem of forestry detritus is happening in the US, rubbish left is fuel for the fires that rage ever more frequently.