Discussion: Ian Dury

Subject: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 02:15 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hi2zGVRiEA

Subject: RE: Ian Dury
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 05:35 PM

Please try to make your thread titles a bit more descriptive, and include at least the start of a discussion in your first message.
It's hard to figure out what to do with this.
Is this a song titled "Billericay Dickie"? What do you have to say about it?

Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor

Subject: RE: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 07:12 PM

I have supported Wilko Johnson and Norman Watt Roy, a couple of times. Both were ex-The Blockheads. Also interviewed the current keyboard player who was also playing with The Animals. (Forgotten his name)
I chatted to each about Ian Dury's lyrics, most of which are from a disabled, and unwarrantedly downtrodden position. Dury was a polio victim. I had my own blues band for 20 years and was quite successful. (As well as folk music) I was also a BBC broadcaster for 34 years.
I am a great Ian Dury fan and saw the band live in Birmingham.
Billericay Dickie, is a shot back at the 'Essex Man is a Neanderthal' viewpoint so often portrayed by those in the media. As usual Dury's lyrics are very clever, and we are left wondering if Dickie and his amorous exploits leave him on the right or wrong side of that red line.
Other songs do the same for the disabled. 'Clever Trevor' is the best. He did a different last line when singing live 'It's much slower to get to Southend if you go sideways!' Singer he was not but a wordsmith and poet he was, and one of the best in the rock medium. Then again as Ian pointed out what do I know? After all's been said and done 'You're all Blockheads too!!' Aintcha! You see why brows wonder weather clever Trevor's Clever!

Subject: RE: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 11:37 PM

It is a discussion about Ian Dury , who was a wonderful poet and song smith, a discussion about his songs and about him.
He was at Walthamstow College of Art, with my cousin. and apparently he was often writing out humourous ditTies and drawing cartoon sketches

Subject: ADD: Clever Trevor (Ian Dury)
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 06 Mar 23 - 11:48 PM

CLEVER TREVOR
(Ian Dury)

Just 'cause I ain't never â??ad, no,
Nothing worth having
Never ever, never ever
You ain't got no call not to think
I wouldn't fall
Into thinking that
I ain't too clever
And it ain't not having
One thing nor another
Neither, either is it anything, whatever
And it's not not knowing that
There ain't nothing showing
And I answer to the name
Of Trever, however
Just 'cause I ain't never said, no,
Nothing worth saying
Never ever, never ever, never ever
Things â??ave got read into what I never sad,
'Til me mouth becomes me â??ead
Which ain't not all that clever
And it's not not saying
One thing nor another
Neither, either is it anything
I haven't said, whatever
And it ain't not proving
That me mind ain't moving
And I answer to the name
Of Trever, however
Knock me down with a feather
Clever Trevor
Widebrows wonder whether
Clever Trevor's clever
Either have they got
Nor neither haven't not
Got no right to make a clot
Out of Trevor
Why should I feel bad
About something I ain't â??ad
Such stupidness is mad
'Cause nothing underfoot
Comes to nothing less to add
To a load of old toot
And I ain't half not half
'Cause there's nowhere to put it
Even if I â??ad I'm a bit of a Jack the Lad
Knock me down with a feather
Clever Trevor
Widebrows wonder whether
Clever Trevor's clever
Either have they got
Nor neither haven't not
Got no right to make a clot
Out of Trevor
Also, it takes much longer
To get up north, the slow way
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Chaz Jankel / Ian Robins Dury
Clevor Trever lyrics © Warner Chappell Music, Inc

Subject: RE: Ian Dury
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 09:16 AM

One of the theme songs of my youth-Sex and Drugs and Rock and Roll

Subject: RE: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Lang Johnnie More
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 04:23 PM

I do remember a guy with a mandolin coming to the Aberdeen University Folk Club in the early 1970s and singing "There Ain't 'alf Been Some Clever Bastards". My introduction to the songs of Ian Dury, but I never heard anyone sing any of his songs in a folk club after that. I did hear a lot worse, though.

Subject: RE: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Anne Lister sans cookie
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 05:04 PM

When I was living in Lyon, France, Ian Dury and the Blockheads came to the city on tour. I had barely heard of him at the time but was persuaded to go - it stands out in my memory as being one of the very best rock gigs I've seen, and the band were as tight as any bunch of musicians could hope to be. Never thought I'd see him cropping up on Mudcat, though - but then again, why not.

Subject: RE: Ian Dury
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 23 - 10:51 PM

R J M, it looks like this is finally developing into a discussion thread. I've edited a bit in here and there to give it some direction, and others have helped. A thread won't work with just a name and a link. You have to give people more of an idea what you want to talk about.
And when you post lyrics, start with the title of the song and the songwriter's name, and THEN post the lyrics. Thanks.

Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 09 Mar 23 - 07:18 PM

I managed to track down the Lyrics for Plaistow Patricia. It's quite a cynical song. Even with the outburst of four-letter words it still has an empathetic side to the story. I love Sweet Gene Vincent as well. I was talking to Dave Peacock of Chas 'n Dave, and found out Chas Hodges played bass for Gene Vincent on one of his UK tours, Just like Ian Dury Vincent could put on a great show when he was sober. (which was not every gig, unfortunately) and of course, he was disabled hence Dury's hero worship. While talking Blockheads Norman Watt-Roy is the best bass player I've seen and heard in my reasonably long life. He is unbelievable. When we supported him in Blackpool, he took a Bass solo through my Bass players amp. It had to be seen and heard for it to be believed.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 04:42 AM

Go raibh maith agat, Joe.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Jim Bainbridge
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 04:57 AM

Yes, a chronicler of his times & delighted to have seen him & his great band a couple of times.
His songwriting was pretty unorthodox, but full of keen observation, and IMHO streets ahead of the 'me me' kind of songwriting so prevalent among other singer/songwriters

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 05:31 AM

I'm sure you already know Joe, but the post above was RJM saying thank you.

---

Yup. Google helped me. ;-) -Joe-

Subject: ADD: Billericay Dickie: (Ian Dury)
From: GUEST,bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 06:49 AM

Billericay Dickie

Good evening I'm from essex
In case you couldn't tell
My given name is Dickie, I come from Billericay
And I'm doing very well

Had a love affair with Nina
In the back of my Cortina
A seasoned up hyena could not have been more obscener
She took me to the cleaners
And other misdemeanours
But I got right up between her
Rum and her Ribena

Well, you ask Joyce and Vicki
If candy-floss is sticky
I'm not a blinking thicky
I'm Billericay Dickie
And I'm doing very well

I bought a lot of brandy
When I was courting Sandy
Took eight to make her randy
And all I had was shandy
Another thing with Sandy
What often came in handy
Was passing her a 'Mandy'
She didn't half go bandy

So you ask Joyce and Vicki
If I ever took the mickey
I'm not a flipping thicky
I'm billeicay dickie
And I'm doing very well

I'd rondez-vouez with Janet
Quite near the Isle of Thanet
She looked more like a gannet
She wasn't half a prannet
Her mother tried to ban it
Her father helped me plan it
And when I captured Janet she bruised her pomegranet

So you ask Joyce and Vicki
If I ever shaped up tricky
I'm not a blooming thicky
I'm Billericay Dickie
And I'm doing very well

You should never hold a candle if you don't know where it's been
The jackpot is in the handle on a normal fruit machine

So you ask Joyce and Vicki
Who's their brickie
I'm not a common thicky
I'm Billericay Dickie
And I'm doing very well

I know a lovely old toe-rag obliging and noblesse
Kindly, charming shag from Shoeburyness

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 05:19 PM

Billericay Dickie song writer Ian Dury



Good evening I'm from essex

In case you couldn't tell
My given name is Dickie, I come from Billericay
And I'm doing very well

Had a love affair with Nina
In the back of my Cortina
A seasoned up hyena could not have been more obscener
She took me to the cleaners
And other misdemeanours
But I got right up between her
Rum and her Ribena

Well, you ask Joyce and Vicki
If candy-floss is sticky
I'm not a blinking thicky
I'm Billericay Dickie
And I'm doing very well

I bought a lot of brandy
When I was courting Sandy
Took eight to make her randy
And all I had was shandy
Another thing with Sandy
What often came in handy
Was passing her a 'Mandy'
She didn't half go bandy

So you ask Joyce and Vicki
If I ever took the mickey
I'm not a flipping thicky
I'm billeicay dickie
And I'm doing very well

I'd rondez-vouez with Janet
Quite near the Isle of Thanet
She looked more like a gannet
She wasn't half a prannet
Her mother tried to ban it
Her father helped me plan it
And when I captured Janet she bruised her pomegranet

So you ask Joyce and Vicki
If I ever shaped up tricky
I'm not a blooming thicky
I'm Billericay Dickie
And I'm doing very well

You should never hold a candle if you don't know where it's been
The jackpot is in the handle on a normal fruit machine

So you ask Joyce and Vicki
Who's their brickie
I'm not a common thicky
I'm Billericay Dickie
And I'm doing very well

I know a lovely old toe-rag obliging and noblesse
Kindly, charming shag from Shoeburyness

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 05:42 PM

Plaistow Patricia
Songwriters: Ian Robins Dury / Stephen Lewis Nugent

Plaistow Patricia lyrics © Warner Chappell Music,



Arseholes, bastards, fucking cunts and pricks
Aerosol, the bricks
A lawless brat from a council flat - oh, oh
A little bit of this and a little bit of that - oh, oh
Dirty tricks
From the Mile End Road
To the match-stick Beacontree
Pulling strokes and taking liberties
She liked it best when she went up west - oh, oh
You can go to hell with your 'well, well, well' - oh, oh
Who said good things always come in threes?
Reds and yellows, purples, blues and greens
She turned the corner before she turned fifteen
She got into a mess on the NHS - oh, oh
It runs down your arms and settles in your palms - oh, oh
Keep your eyeballs white and keep your needle clean
Plaistow Patricia, Plaistow Patricia
Plaistow Patricia, Plaistow Patricia
Her tits had dropped, her arse was getting spread
She lost some teeth, she nearly lost the thread
She did some smack with a Chinese chap - oh, oh, oh
An affair began with Charlie Chan - oh, oh
Well, that was just before she really lost her head
Now she owns a showroom down the Mile End Road
And her outer garments are the latest mode
There's a Siamese cat in the council flat - oh, oh
The finest grains for my lady's veins - oh, oh
And when it gets out of order, she goes away for a bit
Plaistow Patricia, Plaistow Patricia
Plaistow Patricia, Plaistow Patricia
Plaistow Patricia, Plaistow Patricia
Ohh, go on, girl
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Ian Robins Dury / Stephen Lewis Nugent
Plaistow Patricia lyrics © Warner Chappell Music,

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 10 Mar 23 - 07:48 PM

A couple of lines (sorry) missing from B/Dickie.

Oh, Golly Oh Gosh come and lie on the couch,
With a nice bit of posh from Burnham on Crouch,
My given name is Dickie
I come from Billericay,
And I ain't a slouch.

I still think Plaistow Patricia is the most harrowing song he wrote, none of the joy of living in 'Wake up and make love with me' or the sheer love of words and innuendo in 'Rhythm Stick. Then there's that bass line! Inspired (here I go again)

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 11 Mar 23 - 04:40 AM

Yes, a fine bass player

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 12 Mar 23 - 06:06 AM

Baxter Dury (Ian's son, now a musician in his own right, who appears on the cover of New Boots and Panties) talking about the film Sex and Drugs and Rock 'n Roll:

SaDaRnR

LFF

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 12 Mar 23 - 08:21 AM

he was like a beautifully made hotel, one side of which looks over an idyllic beach while the other looks over the Gaza strip.
Brilliant quote, thanks Freddie

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 12 Mar 23 - 11:56 AM

Please do not detract from the discussion. It is not about you, it's about Ian Dury. Talking of which I've seen the biopic. Does anybody have any views? I thought it was very good.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Mar 23 - 12:16 PM

Was that the one with Andy Sirkis taking the leading role? If so, yes, very good.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 12 Mar 23 - 01:13 PM

I was surprised at the volatile relationship between Dury and Chaz Jankel.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 12 Mar 23 - 08:47 PM

Interestingly I found out that he swiped the riff for 'Sex and Drugs and Rock and Roll' from 'Ornette Coleman' on a 1960s Jazz album. Coleman in his turn got it from a Cajun folk Song. This Folk music gets everywhere. (and so it should.)

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 12 Mar 23 - 08:56 PM

By the way, I forgot to say RJM, I don't know if you are familiar with a singer called Dick Miles but he's also a great fan of Ian Dury he spent a lot of time in Ilford as I remember.:-)

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,groovy
Date: 13 Mar 23 - 07:01 AM

one and the same Nick

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 13 Mar 23 - 02:23 PM

I'm from Essex in case you couldn't tell!

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Mar 23 - 02:40 PM

Next star of TOWIE Nick? :-)

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 13 Mar 23 - 07:38 PM

Who me or Billericay Dickie? I was born in Camberwell.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Dick Miles
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 02:42 AM

I was born in Blackheath and lived in Downe Kent until I was 17
I have spent very little time in Ilford
I went to school in Beckenham Kent

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 03:35 AM

Please do not detract from the discussion. The discussion is about Ian Dury

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 03:47 AM

Billericay Dickie has a rhyming sequence which is very unusual

I bought a lot of brandy
When I was courting Sandy
Took eight to make her randy
And all I had was shandy
Another thing with Sandy
What often came in handy
Was passing her a 'Mandy'
She didn't half go bandy

My first reaction was has he been reading Rupert Bear, however the song works despite using the same rhymes for the whole verse

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 05:33 AM

Rupert Bear and Ian Dury in one thread. That has to be a world record. (of something??) By the way I love them both, for very different reasons I have no need to add. (hopefully)

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 11:52 AM

can't see Martin Jarvis reading Ian Dury on Radio 4 somehow?

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 12:55 PM

Well, amazingly Jack de-Manio interviewed him, in a rather confused way. It sticks in the mind. They played the first few bars of 'Sweet Gene Vincent'. Dury was on his best behaviour, and they both ended up laughing at each other's lack of understanding in a friendly way. It was a bit like Pop Larkin meets Jack the Ripper. I was going to say like Rupert Bear meets Gordon Ramsay, but Dury had a brain so that rules out Ramsay.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 03:45 PM

The rhyme scheme with all lines in a verse the same is used in the 13th century troubadour song "Kalenda Maia". It wouldn't surprise me if Dury knew it and the similarity was intentional. You can almost sing it to the same tune.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 04:54 PM

Not familiar with that. Are you able to furnish a couple of details when you have time?

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 06:50 PM

Lyrics

Musica Reservata recording

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 14 Mar 23 - 08:26 PM

Bit of a tenuous connection IMHO. You might equally say that B/Dickie, was similar to the middle eight of 'Goodness Gracious me' with Peter Sellers. The tune is more music hall than early art music. However, it was nice to hear the above recording. Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 03:02 AM

I think a good test of how strong Dury is as a song smith, is to try reciting Billericqy Dickie as a monologue.
In my opinion this is a good technique with any story ballad such as Tam Linn, Two Brothers etc, to recite it as a monologue, i think this helps with story interpretation, thinking about pauses in the same way, one might pause for effect when playing a slow air[ e g playing the silences.]Is this a justified criticism of him as a singer? does he interpret the song well?
Do Ian Durys Songs work if read like a poem or monologue?

We have talked about the quality of the musicians in his band , and it is right and proper that musicians get praised, however accompaniment should be accompaniment,the music should be a vehicle to carry the lyrics, does having a bass solo enhance the song as a vehicle to cqrry the message of the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 03:48 AM

Bang on!

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: Rain Dog
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 04:08 AM

But Dury's songs are not just about the lyrics. It is the lyrics and the music that makes the total experience. Bass solos and all.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: Rain Dog
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 04:22 AM

Broadcast last December on BBC Radio 4 and available to listen to on BBC sounds

Love Pants: Ian Dury & Jane Horrocks

++

In 1987 the legendary singer and songwriter Ian Dury and actor Jane Horrocks began a relationship while working together on the Jim Cartwright play Road. It was at turns loving and acrimonious as it switched quickly from light to darkness and back again.

This is the story of their love affair told through recently re-discovered letters from him, her diary entries of the time, and specially commissioned music by Micky Gallagher (Ian Dury and The Blockheads, The Clash).

The programme also features some of Dury's extraordinary songs - What A Waste, Reasons To Be Cheerful, Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick, Clever Trevor, My Old Man and material from Mr Love Pants, his final album before his death in 2000. There's also a live recording of Spasticus Autisticus which Dury described as "a war cry" when he appeared on Desert Island Discs. The song was performed by Orbital/Graeae Theatre Company and broadcast worldwide by the BBC at the opening ceremony of the London 2012 Paralympics.

Jane Horrocks' diary details the relationship through a conflicted lens - beautiful and direct descriptions of joy and heartache, romance, fear, boredom and comedy. Some of Dury's letters to Horrocks read like a song chorus or a poem.

There are vivid cultural references to the times - from Sylvia Plath's grave to Terence Trent D'Arby, and the film Barfly.

Ian Dury's letters are read by Jud Charlton in an uncanny facsimile of the late singer's voice and character, and Jane Horrocks reflects on bringing her memories, the letters and her diaries together after 35 years, concluding that here was a friendship trampled by a sometimes toxic love affair.

Devised by Jane Horrocks
Produced and Directed by Peter Curran
Sound Design: David Thomas
A Foghorn Company production for BBC Radio 4

++

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 04:39 AM

if we are discussing him as a lyric writer OR AS A SONG SMITH then it is about the lyrics not about the instrumentation. It depends what aspect of performance is being discussed.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Will Fly
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 05:20 AM

I went to a talk by Ian Dury at the Hay-on-Wye Fedtival, many years ago. He was adamant that writing lyrics for a sing was not the same as writing poetry - and denied being a poet. The music and lyrics were part of the whole, one hand in glove with the other.

Whether you take his statement at face value is, of course, up to you...

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,R J M
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 05:40 AM

I disagree with him to some extent, writing lyrics for a song can be the same as writing poetry, that is why some poetry notably KipLing and C Fox Smith work as songs ,because they are written to a rhythm, whether you think Kipling was a good poet or not is not the point, the point is that poetry can be the same as song, and the proof is that Kiplings poems work as songs
So it depends on the style of the poet as to whether they work as songs,
Dury may have been a good lyric writer, but that does not mean that his opinion quote
"writing lyrics for a song was not the same as writing poetry" is one hundred percent accurate.
Whether i take the statement at face value is not an entirely a subjective opinion, if it was, there would not be poems that work well as songs

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: Mo the caller
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 06:52 AM

I read that as saying that when you write a song you should be thinking of more than the words. It may be that the words turn out to be a poem as well as a song; it may be that a poem also works as a song. But perhaps not always.

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 15 Mar 23 - 06:53 AM

I think of my failed songs, the ones that never make it to performance, as poems, which sometimes do make it to performance.

The song has something extra that adds to the poem and makes it a different experience.

I agree with Ian Dury that he was a songwriter, not a pure poet.

Robin

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 16 Mar 23 - 04:15 AM

His songs do depict his characters in a negative way?
i find it interesting to compare him to the Norfolk Chronicler Alan Smethurst

Subject: RE: Discussion: Ian Dury
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 16 Mar 23 - 08:59 PM

Actually, that's not as unlikely as it seems when you consider it.