BS: Political education and voting

Subject: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 04:05 AM

On the Trump thread the discussion has spun off into political education and voting, compulsory or not. I think that this deserves its own space. My contention is that a good political education should be compulsory rather than make voting compulsory.

On the more flippant side I suggested that a voting licence should be obtained, much like a driving licence, before people are let loose with decisions that affect millions of lives. That was rather tongue in cheek of course but I can now see some benefits! The major drawback is that some people will not or cannot get one. There must be ways round that. After all, how many people cannot or will not get driving licences but they still manage to get about :-)

Discuss

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 04:09 AM

BTW, mods, this is not UK politics. It is global. We may have stayed in Europe with sound political education and equally I suspect Trump would not even been nominated.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 05:33 AM

As I said on the other thread, democracies that have "compulsory voting" in secret ballots really have no such thing. You can take the horse to water but you can't make it drink. In the case of voting, you won't know whether the horse has drunk the water or not. Obliging everyone to turn out to the polling station is not the same as making people vote.

There are lots of facets to this. A big worry in some countries (the US and UK are good examples) is low voter turnout. The 2016 US election saw a turnout of about 60%, which was high for America. But it still meant that way below 40% of the electorate voted for Trump. Mandatory voting would be transformative in terms of turnout. The Aussies crow about their 90%+ turnouts. I'd like to suggest that corralling reluctant or uninterested voters to the polling booths, whilst it makes the turnout numbers look impressive, it doesn't necessarily improve democracy (I'm still waiting to hear whether the Aussies crow about excellent governance as much as they do about their turnout).

There's an argument that compulsory turnout would encourage many erstwhile refuseniks to study politics at least a little bit before they go to vote. If that were provable, you couldn't argue that it was a bad thing. Another argument is that, on the whole, wealthier people and older people are more inclined to vote, and vote right wing. More deprived and/or younger people are less inclined to vote but, if they did vote, they would increase the left wing vote. Well that's a deliciously enticing argument for a leftie like me, but there are two issues there: first, it's hardly an argument predicated on principle, and second, it hasn't actually been demonstrated to work that way.

Finally, food for thought: there is no compulsory voting in Sweden (typical turnout in the high 80s), Norway (high 70s) or Denmark (81.4% last time out, and they're worried because that was low!)

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 07:02 AM

A number of countries have eccentric political parties, such as the UK's Official Monster Raving Loony Party, who put forward joke policies. If voting became compulsory then many people might consider voting for them rather than simply spoiling the ballot paper.

There is a danger that, if people are sufficiently disenchanted with what is in offer from the mainstream parties, some of their candidates might get elected. It happened in Denmark in 1979 when Danish-Faroese comedian Jacob Haugaard, of the Union of Conscientiously Work-shy Elements, found himself often having the deciding vote in a hung-parliament.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Stanron
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 07:11 AM

What exactly is good or sound political education? And how could it be different to indoctrination?

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 07:20 AM

We used to think it was male rich white property owners.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 09:05 AM

"What exactly is good or sound political education? And how could it be different to indoctrination?"

Ah, the good old reds under the bed argument, time-honoured. Believe it or not, it is possible to deliver a curriculum in politics that's neutral. We could do it for religion but we still prefer to indoctrinate. I'd like to suggest that, in the Daily Mail/Express/Sun/social media world in which we live, we get indoctrination of a different, undesirable sort by default. Look at what happens in sex and relationships education. We sit on our hands nervously, stay way behind the curve and let hard-core porn channels and Facebook do the "educating." So you let all that go but worry that teachers might tell the kids to vote Labour and make them chant extracts from Karl Marx. Well I've never met a teacher like that, and I've met a few.

To answer your question, in part at least, we could have lessons on what it means to be a citizen, on the history of politics and the development of our democracy, on the party system, on the voting system, on constituencies and on the role of MPs in their constituencies and in Parliament, on how laws are made and on how we can, and should, all participate in the politics of the country. We should vote, but always knowledgeably.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Rain Dog
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 09:23 AM

So, in times of falling turn out, some of you want to restrict the right to vote.

Why?

Is it because some of you will never understand why others vote differently from you?

Strange times we are living in.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 09:31 AM

Who wants to restrict the right to vote, Rain Dog? You seem to be putting up straw men today!

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 09:35 AM

What is decent general education, anyway?
We need that first,
so as to distinguish between education and indoctrination.
I can still hear a Dominican friar ranting,
"Critical thinking is not even taught . . . "

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Rain Dog
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 09:36 AM

"My contention is that a good political education should be compulsory rather than make voting compulsory."

It not me who is putting up straw men. Rather it is you who seems to be in favour of restrictions.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Rain Dog
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 09:40 AM

"What is decent general education, anyway?"

Exactly.

Here in the UK that changes with every government. In fact it tends to change with every new Minister of Education.

After all these years they still don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 09:59 AM

We do know but we don't execute it, largely because of political interference. Watch your backs if you're not following the prescribed National Curriculum to the letter and if you're not doing things the Ofsted way (National Curriculum, Thatcher, ideology; Ofsted, John Major, ideology). Good education is not about stuffing children's heads with prescribed (from outside) content, or "following the syllabus," nor has it got anything to do with proselytising. It has everything to do with getting children to be curious and enthusiastic about learning, about seeing patterns and connections, about giving them the learning skills and about getting them to accept very little at face value and to question almost everything they're told. Sadly, all that content-stuffing and all the bureaucracy that grinds brilliant teachers down leaves very little time for any of that. Oh no, we must prepare children for "the world of work." We must fit them to what the nation needs! After all, we don't want those captains of industry forever moaning, as they never fail to do, that the young people of today who come to them can hardly read and write, do we?

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Rain Dog
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 10:04 AM

"After all, we don't want those captains of industry forever moaning, as they never fail to do, that the young people of today who come to them can hardly read and write, do we?"

No but I think we can all agree that everyone who leaves school should be able to read and write. Sadly that is not always the case, even after all these years.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 10:14 AM

Rain Dog. You quoted my phrase, "My contention is that a good political education should be compulsory rather than make voting compulsory."

How on earth does that restrict anyone from voting Raid Dog?

You then went on to say, "No but I think we can all agree that everyone who leaves school should be able to read and write."

And why should students not receive a basic grounding in politics and democracy? Seem to be you that wants to restrict reoples rights to a good education rather than me wanting to restrict anyones rights to anything

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 10:17 AM

Oh, and my contention was in the opening post so how on earth can it be a Straw Man argument?

From Wiki - A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion

I posted the argument so it cannot possibly be different from one under discussion!

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 10:34 AM

"No but I think we can all agree that everyone who leaves school should be able to read and write. Sadly that is not always the case, even after all these years."

Are you a captain of industry, Rain Dog? If you are, gizza job!

I don't know what the numbers are for literacy of different levels, but if you're right it doesn't say much for nearly fourteen years of Toryism, does it? After all, the cohort leaving school at 18 this year have spent all their school education under the Tories. Just sayin' (note literate use of apostrophe...).

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Rain Dog
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 10:40 AM

It does not say much for all governments since 1945.

I am sure you were aware of the problem when you were teaching.

My sister was a teacher. I have known a lot of teachers. I still know people who are teaching now.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 10:56 AM

What exactly is good or sound political education?

I think Donuel had it right when he posted:

We used to think it was male rich white property owners.

At the beginning of the 20th century, British people were taught that the Empire was the natural order of things and that women should be looking after the home rather campaigning for universal suffrage. I hope that by the beginning of the next century, young people studying political history will look back at today's times and shake their heads in disbelief when they read about 'first past the post' and electoral colleges.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 11:11 AM

While we have our two-party hegemony in this country, first past the post is here to stay. Coalitions are the exception here, and when we did have one that bunch of unprincipled, lightweight, naive opportunists known as the LibDems ended up with exactly what they deserved. Days of hope for PR vanished in the haze. Another time, maybe, but I don't think I'll ever see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 11:12 AM

Just skipping past most posts to add my two cents - that I suggest periodically in various political threads - that we used to have required high school classes in Civics. Students used to have to study Social Studies. Or high school had Government classes. I think I took different classes with those various names - they were interspersed through our education. It's where we learned about the bodies of government at different levels, how offices were filled, how long they were held, and who could run for them.

All of that is pretty much gone in favor of more time for "teaching to the test" that is a proficiency level test that kills a lot of good time for otherwise teaching critical thinking about government (even if the name "critical thinking" was never used.)

I taught my kids the term critical thinking at home when we were looking up subjects for them or even just doing simple tasks like shopping online to compare products. It's especially important when comparing political parties or candidates.

I would like to see mandatory voting. What Dave describes as a "license," alas, sounds like a Poll Tax. Not a good path to travel down.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 12:31 PM

The only worthwhile education I know of is learning how to learn.
It will last a lifetime without limitation.
For those who stop learning for reversible reasons, deserve help.
Those who stop learning for pathetic reasons are lost.
The lost are evident to all of us who continue to learn.
The lost do not see they are lost but think they know everything they need. The lost are often hateful and envious of an elite that is real or made up. The lost are still human and deserve our respect but not our admiration. If they are an EICHMAN or a TRUMP they deserve punishment. Otherwise, they can be of no harm except by manipulation.
In my work I had to deal with the lost and for many of them there was promise and hope. The rest become and remain a man child or horrible bosses. Still, even a blind squirrel can find a nut now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 12:44 PM

In eastern Washington and western Idaho the lost want to move the State border so their voting block will reflect a consolidation of their viewpoint without the educated progressive majority watering down their vote. Idiocy likes to consolidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 12:54 PM

In other times British Columbia has threatened to join the Northwest as another state (with leanings toward the West side of the Cascades, not the east that you just mentioned). It is always an interesting conversation out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 12:56 PM

If you have continued to learn expect to be called biased, delusional, or woke by the lost who stopped learning.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 12:59 PM

West Virginia split off from Virginia in the Civil War.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 01:26 PM

I have said people are easily hypnotized while Psychologists would merely say people are easily prone to obedience. My mother would say birds of a feather flock together. You might think you are obeying the rules or policies. Some say I was just following orders.

True freedom of mind is not easily attained. It has no simple on off switch. Some might call it wisdom or enlightenment but freedom is as good a word as any. It's not about following.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 02:19 PM

I Lear something new every day! Well, most days anyway. Today I learned that there was a double sided harmonica. Thanks Steve :-) As an Anglo concertina dabller it has made my wish list.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 06:08 PM

Hey, Dave, I also counselled against them!

"The lost are evident to all of us who continue to learn."

Hmm. Well you've lost me with your obscurantism countless times. I suggest that you stop arrogantly looking over your shoulder at the lost while you're continuing to learn, because that particular distraction is causing you to learn how to be uninformed.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 06:47 PM

looking over a shoulder implies the lost are behind. It looks like some are ahead today.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 09:21 PM

IF there is political education in Democracies it should be of constant vigilance of fascist personalities and the weakness of humans in their obedient psyche.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 23 - 02:25 AM

No Donuel. It should teach people to be wary of ANY extremism. Human weaknesses and psyche are exploited by extremists so people need to be aware of them but as a topic they belong in psychology or biology rather than politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 23 - 07:32 AM

There is a name for that. Political Science.
I bet the UK is nostalgic for the government stability of the days of olde.
The shocks to the system have been sad and financial. Some you see coming and some you can't. A better education may have been helpful but its too late now.
I wonder if another Democratic referendum is now more feared and avoided.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 23 - 09:13 AM

Political science is a whole higher level topic, Donuel. We are talking about starting to teach young people about politics, voting, political parties (including extreme ones!) and democracy up to the age of 16 and before they begin to cast votes.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 23 - 09:14 AM

...and of course that should include how to think and decide for themselves!

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 23 - 03:01 PM

Huzzah

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 02:55 AM

My contention is that a good political education should be compulsory rather than make voting compulsory.

They have it, de facto, in Russia.

It all depends on the meaning, in context, of good.

In the hands of anyone politically biased, yer actual good is a moveable feast. Yea, Yea. We ain't Russia. OK. So look to US where political education comes in the form of paid adverts.

Politics is a belief system. Just like its sister religions. Should RI/RE be compulsory? I can predict the answer, in this parish, to that!

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 08:34 AM

"Good" means objective and unbiased. The right wing always rail against political education, their dishonest take being that teachers of such will be reds under the bed, the more honest but never stated take being that a politically-educated electorate would be less likely to vote Tory. As I've said before, it's perfectly possible to teach an objective and unbiased curriculum in such areas as politics and religious studies. Teachers routinely keep their own predilections under wraps in the classroom. What you seem to imply is that the only good teacher is a Tory teacher. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 12:48 PM

Sorry Mr Red but good is good is good. It means the opposite of bad. It is not indoctrination or any other such thing. Give young people the facts and the ability to think, and they than can then make informed decisions.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 02:04 PM

... good is good is good.

What is good today, may not be seen as good tomorrow.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 02:19 PM

Objective and unbiased are always good, Doug. Deciding the content of political education may be a bit trickier, but, as with everything in life, it's better to give it a whirl than to fearfully ignore it.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 10:23 PM

4-20 celebrations abound here. Stoners are unaware it is Hitler's birthday.
Our right wing are banning instead of burning books, especially history, black heroes and athletes and anything about sex.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Apr 23 - 08:19 AM

> it's better to give it a whirl than to fearfully ignore it

Counterexample: Trussonomics :-) . But I largely agree with you --- there's far too much veneration of known-failed methods and policies, and bugger all in the way of new ideas. Oh, and Them Up Top decreeing that pi shall henceforth be exactly 3.16, then blaming us because their wheels are wonky.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Apr 23 - 08:20 AM

Apologies: that should have been in the Stupid Laws thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Apr 23 - 09:53 AM

There was nothing new and untried in Trussonomics. It's all been tried before, but not nearly so absurdly at the wrong time and all at once with sheer incompetent ideologues at the helm... Not saying it should ever have been tried at all...

By the way, if you really must boil pi down to two decimal places, it's 3.14, not 3.16 (or maybe I didn't get yer drift... It's been known...)

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Apr 23 - 12:03 PM

> it's 3.14, not 3.16

Oops: an incomplete remembering of what's usually known as the Indiana Pi Bill, which (on the way to attempting to square the circle) tries to set "pi = 10/4" by legislative fiat. Read the above Wikipedia entry for a surprisingly reasonable exposition and demolition of the unreasonable .... something I should have checked first for myself. I AM EMBARRASSMENT, as Death would have intoned.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 02:27 AM

"Good" means objective and unbiased.

"Objective and unbiased" means objective & unbiased

"Good" means anything the user is happy to hear. The word is as biased as the user. It comes under umbrella of confirmation bias.

And (except you and me, though mostly me) we all come with biases, it gets us through the day, sanely.

I stopped having any real political favourites when I found satirical programmes poking fun involving my biases. That was my best political education.
Does that make me objective & unbiased? Can we take a vote on that? 😏

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 03:08 AM

I went to a good restaurant last night (it was superb, in fact). But a plain meat 'n' two veg with Bisto bloke would have hated all those spicy, porky tapas, olives and stuffed guindillas. We use good in whatever context we happen to find ourself in. I can't negotiate "good" with yer Bisto man, but we can negotiate "good" when we're talking about what would be a good curriculum in political education: what to put in, what to leave out, how to do the monitoring and get the feedback, who should be involved, how to relate it to the age and ability of the students, how to avoid bias and proselytising, how to assess our efforts, get advice from outside...It's hard work but it's no different from history or biology. We get round the table and thrash it out. Then we can can confidently say that it's as good as we can make it. Good means we've given it our honest and best shot. I'm not going to be scrapping the word "good" or be cynical every time I see it used because I don't think I can apply it to an honest human endeavour which is bound to be imperfect.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 06:14 AM

It depends on what the meaning of is is.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 07:12 AM

Attila the Stockbroker on the subject of Voter-ID/Suppression on FaceAche this morning. He’s spot-on, it’s an outrage, a Tory plot to deter the young, the vulnerable, the traditional non-Tory voter, from voting. Along with their carefully-planned and barely-publicised changes to constituency boundaries, it’s an attempt at election-rigging, and the Electoral Commission appear to be hand-in-glove with the them…

”The Electoral Commission are apparently conniving with the Tories’ blatant voter suppression policy by permitting the placement of ‘greeters’ outside polling stations at the forthcoming local elections to ask people if they have ID and turning them away if they do not - without making note of the numbers involved. Not only taking away people’s right to vote but effectively making them invisible.

This is disgusting. If the very people who regulate elections are effectively Tory stooges then what’s the point? It’s like a football match where the referee is on the board of one of the teams!

The take up of the new voter eligibility document is especially low among young people - the ones whose votes the Tories are most desperate to suppress. They LOATHE young people: the latest splutterings about ‘snowflake millennials’ in the Civil Service says it all. The only people the Tories want to vote in elections are people like them - old, rich, selfish, complacent, gullible, bigoted.

The young, the poor, the vulnerable, those overwhelmed by the struggle to survive, those who for whatever reason do not want to draw attention to themselves, are very unlikely to turn up on polling day under the new rules. The instances of voter fraud are minuscule - there’s far more fraud on the Tory benches in the House of Commons than in the polling stations.

Token low key adverts, allowing pensioner ID but disqualifying youth ID, making it as difficult as possible for the people to vote whose lives are difficult already. And then they will turn in their gated communities around and say ‘All you had to do was get the necessary ID’ to people working three jobs to survive.

From the bottom of my heart, I urge all of you to ensure that everyone you know gets the sodding ID and votes for the candidate best placed to beat the Tories in every ward in the country.

We need to absolutely wipe them out: whatever shortcomings are to be found in the opposition parties the Tories are venal, corrupt and evil and unfit to govern.

They are not ‘the same’ as Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, Plaid or the SNP. They are out on their own, on the far right, and they must GO!

*IMPORTANT*

I shall be helping get out the vote in Worthing on polling day and shall be proud to do so, helping increase the majority for our transformative council.

Last time I was a teller. If the ID regulations were in force I would have made a note of every person turned away from the polling station due to lack of ID.

I would urge tellers from opposition parties to do so on May 4th.

And I would be grateful if people would desist from saying things like ‘they’re all the same’ on this page from now on.

They’re not. And such remarks do the Tories’ dirty work for them by spreading apathy and disillusionment. Get them out - and then the real battle begins.

I can assure you I shall be right in the front line.”

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 07:34 AM

What reputable news organizations like the GUARDIAN, NYT and the WP have in common is VERIFICATION.

What Murdoch and Consevative rags do is engage in DEVERIFICATION, in other words taking verified settled facts and attacking it to induce doubt and suspicion. Remember 'alternative facts'?

On a personal level I know a usual suspect who employs deverification to call into question that I am a reasonable person in hopes to discredit certain facts.
Deverification is a specific kind of lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 10:46 AM

Rachel Maddow took the time to explain that process on her program last night. It's what is happening as far as mifepristone and being approved in a 5-year process that concluded over 20 years ago. Yet now it is suspect, based upon lies of those who want to deverify it, and they're running on the energy of the anger that they have generated.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 11:23 AM

I don't mind the deletions, Maggie, but am rather concerned that you didn't see the smear in the 07.34 am post. Your gig.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 23 - 03:23 PM

Its good to know the truth and speak it.
Its better to know the truth and speak of palm trees.
Arab proverb.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 23 - 10:06 AM

My old boss used to have a good saying.

If you can't blind 'em with science, baffle 'em with bullshit

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Apr 23 - 10:44 AM

In our local elections none of the candidates have filled out any of the public information forms that tell us what they stand for or want to do. They're small elections, but they matter to my village. Maybe they assume we all know who they are? One lives next door to me and had a huge Trump sign on his house in 2020. I'd like to know a lot more about the other guy he's running against.

The candidates need education in this instance.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 23 - 01:23 PM

Blimey, Stilly. How does anyone know who to vote for if the candidates don't have a manifesto?

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Apr 23 - 04:27 PM

The US has been educated to the degree that fascism is undesirable to a thin majority. The pendulum has stopped and will swing the other way toward Democracy. Terrorism or unconstitutional fraud will still try to overthrow the majority in upcoming years. My warning of the rise of fascism is done. It would take a global recession for the right to gain the upper hand. Trump can be the nominee again and fail by a larger margin.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 May 23 - 12:16 PM

Politics is damned depressing, with how strong the minority of GOP zealots have gerrymandered districts so they can actually win elections. It's time to federally block that kind of district line drawing.

Still no information about candidates in the village. I'll vote for the other guy (my neighbor told he me was asked to run because there wasn't much to offer on the ballot - I think that's code for a GOP person doesn't want a Democrat in office.) And on the separate ballot they're all stinkers. In a big river development project there isn't a single scientist or academic with knowledge of the process or environmental impact, just Realtors who are in it for the profits they can make buying and selling river frontage.

Bleh. But I will vote. They're trying to pass laws now regarding dropping people off of the roles if they don't participate regularly. More Texas voter suppression crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 23 - 11:30 PM

Among the six conservative Supreme Court Justices they have received about 16 million dollars of favors from some firms that have appeared before the court. Also all 6 were supported by the Federalist Society that got 1.6 Billion dollars (a record contribution) of political donation money. Its legal because no ethic laws apply to the court.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 23 - 04:57 AM

The problem is Don, you speculate and make so much stuff up I don't know whether what you just quoted is fact or fiction.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 May 23 - 05:01 AM

It would help if posters included links to their sources. It’s simple enough to do, I really don’t understand why some people won’t do it. And Don’s far from being the only one…

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 23 - 12:36 PM

There is value for BS becoming a links only category with exceptions for three old threads, MOAB, Declutter and Brexit.
Journalists have never exaggerated or taken a controversial POV. Nor have they ever gotten a number wrong. Posting links only should eliminate your distress. It will save thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 23 - 01:06 PM

I used to think it was my lack of understanding but, on reflection, you don't half talk shite, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 23 - 01:10 PM

Who, apart from you Don, has suggested ‘posting links only’? I’ll tell you - nobody. I recommend you to take English Comprehension classes.

Subject: RE: BS: Political education and voting
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 23 - 03:37 PM

I never read links-only posts. I regard this to be a discussion forum.