UK Folk Revival Revival Positives

Subject: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 20 Apr 23 - 02:57 AM

A thread in which people can be positive about it.
Folk Clubs, a place where people are encouraged to make music, and where audiences go specifically to listen and it is not background music

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 20 Apr 23 - 12:48 PM

How useful are folk club workshops and festival workshops?
Are they as useful as online workshops?
Questions not statements.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 20 Apr 23 - 01:31 PM

Workshops are one of the main reasons I go to festivals. I will take in a concert or two and seek out either official or fringe sessions but it is workshops that I pay my money for.

I have never taken part in an on-line music workshop but I have benefited from some YouTube tutorials. However, during the pandemic, I took part in French lessons via Skype and Zoom. From my experience with the Zoom sessions, I am of the opinion that an on-line music workshop would be two thirds of no use at all.

DC

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 20 Apr 23 - 01:42 PM

I have just looked at the thread title. My second paragraph wasn't very positive, was it? Sorry about that.

I would be interested to know if others find on-line workshops useful.

DC

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 20 Apr 23 - 04:20 PM

Doug it depends, who is doing the workshops, I suppose, and how good they are at explaining., and teaching
One of the advantages of workshops in the real world is not just the socialising factor, but after the workshop the player may pick up useful info from other players regardless of how good the actual workshop was.
Plus the chance to ask the tutor in person specific problems afterwards in person rather than just in a comment section

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 20 Apr 23 - 05:35 PM

I agree with you on the advantages of real world workshops that you identified, but would add:-

An important part of workshops in the real world is playing together with the other participants, when appropriate, and listening to them as you play. The same goes for open sessions. I don't see how that is possible on-line.


DC

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 03:52 AM

well, as regards online, if i want to play in a particular style, i would choose you tube clips for example Seamus Creagh or whoever and play along, i absorb and listen,not copy exactly but maybe be influenced by.
There are so many ways of learning, and you tube can be good too but imo it is hard to beat workshops at festivals or clubs and one to one personal live real world interaction.
LEWES FOLK CLUB do workshops are there any other folk clubs that do?that i am not aware of

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 22 Apr 23 - 02:16 PM

Socialising, something the internet only does relatively poorly,is a positive aspect of all music clubs and community type clubs such as folk clubs

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Apr 23 - 05:35 PM

There are many reasons why some people prefer Internet interactions over live ones. Cost, availability and, not least, social or other anxiety. I agree that live workshops and clubs are great but some folk just cannot get to them. Let's not forget the role of technology in the current folk revival. If it gets people who would otherwise be excluded involved it must be a good thing. I see it as very much a positive.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 02:53 AM

Yes it has positives, but it does not alter the fact that internet communication has limitations. examples
1 zoom. the inablity for chorus singing to be heard
2. internet interreaction has at least one limtation.. no body language

Cost?
well you have to have money to buy a computer or internet communicator, so those people who are poor are excluded, that must include a lot of people in the third world,
so does it get people who are excluded involved?,not necessarily

finally people can sing unaccompanied to each other without any money they do not have to buy instruments or buy technology to communicate.

Technology can facilitate communication in a limited way if you have money to be a consumer, that has positives, but is not entirely
positive, it is still exclusive

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 03:06 AM

Live performance and interaction has a downside for some too but I thought this thread was about being positive!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: r.padgett
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 03:15 AM

I think post Covid get togethers are pretty much the way forwards but the factional existence of clubs and gatherings due probably to time distance and cost of travel are still limiting factors

In my day (eh) people did travel to different folk clubs and festivals and songs that were local were picked up and sung by the visitors back home ~ song collecting! and of course even further back videos of dance and recordings of the traditional singers were available

But learning from established singers and from vinyl and CDs are all the main sources ~ bring worthy songs back to life ~ and btw just singing like Fred is not necessarily the best way ~I do like songs in context or "explained" that is why am I singing this song!

Ray

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 03:30 AM

it is about the positives of the UK FOLK REVIVAL.
If Technology because of its cost excludes those who cannot afford it or those old people who find it stressful, then whilst technology has positives for some. example.. those who can afford it but who are immobile, it appears   at the same time because of its cost to exclude.
    so yes it has positives, but how positive?
I see technology in the uk folk revival as a positive but something that could still be improved upon,[ example the inabilty to sing choruses together]
That is a positive statement.
I am sure you are not happy with the idea that there are some who cannot afford it, that does not mean that technology within the ukfolk revival is entirely good or entirely bad, but it means it has good elements and it has one or two things that could be improved.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 03:37 AM

Ray, a very good post

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 04:00 AM

Like it or not, technology has a part to play in every aspect of today's life, including the current folk revival. Of course it can be improved upon. So can folk clubs and festivals! So, in the spirit of the thread, should we not be concentrating on the good bits? I thought that was the point.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 04:12 AM

I am concentrating on positives, in my opinion there are more positives about live performance than internet performance, that does not mean that there are not positives about internet perfprmance.
Technology cannot play a part in peoples lives if they cannot afford it,
if we could get the uk folk revival to the third world and hear their music too, via the internet that would be very positive but cost prohibits that from happening, and prevents people in the third world and elsewhere from participating.overcoming that would be positive.

promoting music in our own local Communities is a positive too, I run a FESTIVAL JUNE 16 JUNE 18 www.fastnetmaritime.com .
I think every person who runs a club or a festival is doing something positive, and needs to be encouraged

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 06:29 AM

People communicate (and sing) however they can. I view Zoom, in-person sessions and performances as complementary: Zoom has given us a new way to make friends and music together at a distance, and we work around the limitations.* Were it not for the Monday singarounds, Herself wouldn't have gained the confidence (however fragile) to sing in public, so *there*'s a positive for you.

* We've been here before. Mick Jagger and David Bowie were told they couldn't sing together from the two Live Aid stages, because there was an inconveniently wide Atlantic between them; so they took a camera for a prerecorded dance around the streets, and produced one of the best bits of the Live Aid concert.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 08:43 AM

>>I think every person who runs a club or a festival is doing something positive, and needs to be encouraged<<

Amen to that, Dick.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 12:14 PM

I helped to run a club and festival for over 25 years. It is very satisfying but can be frustrating. Overall I would recommend it though :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 03:31 PM

Swinton Folk club,
yes,I remember now, Bookings were done by G Robinson Todd, and you used to help on the door, a thankless but important task, well done, good man., as i said before anyone who has
helped deserves thanks, thankyou very much

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 23 - 04:21 AM

You're welcome, Dick. I did all the finances which often involved dipping into my own pocket! As well as most of the organising for the festival. Thankless? Sometimes. Satisfying? Most times :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 24 Apr 23 - 04:31 AM

Well Done,
i ran clubs for years
and one year I had to put 500 into the current festival, UNTIL A GRANT CAME THROUGH 6 MONTHS LATER,
I have been running the current festival for 10 years, and if it loses what is in the bank that will be the end. being an organiser is a good lesson for any performer.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: r.padgett
Date: 24 Apr 23 - 07:39 AM

Yes I agree ~ performers seem to think (by and large) that there is some kind of divine right of passage ~that folk club organisers should simply book them!

The folk club and song revival is largely due to the work of club organiser who do their damndist to attract audiences who want to see the next best thing ~ of course it is important to realise that not all folk clubs are "booking guest" and do not want to them to darken their doorway

Concert clubs are generally just that ~ and more power to their elbows

A number of folk set ups exist and are successful for their own reasons
What does need to be understood is that "folk politics" can be very damaging ~ and best walked away from

And pubs seem to think that advertising certain beers ales and lagers is a big attraction ~ not necessarily so!

Ray

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Apr 23 - 06:10 AM

Of course a lot of the problem is that people with strong opinions about what constituted folk music would turn up at your folk club.

Some people just expected to be entertained, some people thought we were a branch of the British museum with a duty to preserve 'olde England'.

I suppose in cities you could cultivate your own particular bent, but if you were out in the sticks, all sorts of odds and sods turned up, which was okay on a singers night - but if you had a guest that a section of the audience disapproved of - it might create an atmosphere.

I think when you're a professional entertainer - no one can expect you to be able to do 'anything and everything.' However there does need to be give and take. A degree of flexibility is necessary.
Audiences need to come to a folk club, interested in what the artist feels they have to offer. And artists need to realise that not every audience turns up fully briefed as to what their take on folk music is - their demeanor should be respectful.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 30 Apr 23 - 07:32 AM

I think when you're a professional entertainer - no one can expect you to be able to do 'anything and everything.' However there does need to be give and take. A degree of flexibility is necessary.quote
I agree

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 30 Apr 23 - 01:21 PM

Nobody tells Harry Styles or Ed Sheeran what material to do on stage- they do their own choice- but I doubt if either could play the Bucks of Oranmore, so it's easier for them- they get paid better as well

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Apr 23 - 01:56 PM

Yes but Harry Styles and what he does is on the radio all the time - its very well known, and people turn up and pay a lot of money for a specific thing.

Tha\t's what I was saying, all kinds of odds and sods turn up at a folk club, particularly out in the country - where half the bar room is only there for the meat raffle.

I can remember the late Peter Bellamy and Bob Davenport (both excellent artists) finding it very it very difficult to make themselves understood to a quite friendly audience.

I think this dislocation between audience and artist is the reason many folk clubs and even festivals don't book guests. Artists find it difficult to understand that only a minority of people read folk magazines, read folk websites or indeed take the artform they have devoted their life to, very seriously. I suspect in the 60's the popularity of 'folk' concealed this.....sadly its something we still haven't got our heads round.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: r.padgett
Date: 01 May 23 - 02:44 AM

So many subdivisions within the folk "club" genre cause divisions ~ blues, traditional song, contemporary singer songwriter ~ that these

become paramount in describing and attracting folk club goers, audience,

performers and potential booked guests ~ and some vital bars and pubs still think attendees are coming for their specific "Real ale"

What a night mare ~ and yes entertainment? Are you playing for yourself or others?

Ray

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 May 23 - 09:40 AM

Ed Sheeran has done some folky stuff, patriot - Look up his name and, IE, "The Parting Glass" on You Tube. Although an erstwhile member on here insists that because Sheeran is famous he cannot be folky! :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 May 23 - 10:50 AM

"Nobody tells Harry Styles or Ed Sheeran what material to do on stage"

It is not unusual to hear members of the audience shouting out for their favourite song to be performed. More of a request rather than a demand.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 02 May 23 - 11:46 AM

Dave,

Singing folk songs does not make a pop singer folky.

Ref. Guy Mitchell, Alma Cogan, Danny Kaye, Harry Belafonte, Marion Try Slaughter, Johnny Ray etc etc

The names may not be familiar to junior contributors here but I ignored the product of pop singers at a very early age.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 23 - 12:07 PM

Nobody tells me what to do.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 23 - 04:17 PM

So . after 32 posts, could someone maybe summarise, please - what WERE the "Folk Revival Positives" ?

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 02 May 23 - 04:28 PM

The opportunity for people to be creative, and learn to perform, a lot of people have got pleasure from performing and listening to music ,many people have met their partners and some have lived happily afterwards

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 23 - 03:46 AM

All true, and all very good, but you could say the same about any musical genre. Nothing at all specific to the Folk Revival.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 23 - 10:03 AM

Folk Clubs, a place where people are encouraged to make music, and where audiences go specifically to listen and it is not background music

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 May 23 - 11:27 AM

I keep trying to post on here but it errors - This is just a test!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 May 23 - 11:33 AM

Seems to be when I try to include links

Any ideas?

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 May 23 - 11:35 AM

I've hit times when only one paragraph at a time would go through. You can send me the link via PM and I might be able to edit it in.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 May 23 - 11:57 AM

Listen to The Parting Glass or The Wild Mountain Thyme then tell me he would not be welcome at your folk club!

I see this as a positive too because if the revival has brought folk to the notice of mainstream artists it will also bring it to their fans

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 May 23 - 11:58 AM

It was some sort of limit Stilly - Cut down message has gone through as you can see and the gist is still there. Thanks anyway.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 03 May 23 - 01:10 PM

Yes,that is a positive

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 03 May 23 - 01:33 PM

I think he sings The Parting Glass, well.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 03 May 23 - 01:38 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCd1ljSOwss

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 May 23 - 02:47 PM

Well one positive is surely the revival in our generation of skilled craftsmen making acoustic instruments.

Also supply follows demand far more people (both young and old) have a go at playing and performing than did when I was a child in the 1950's. This must have aided the development of third world economies making these cheap mass produced instruments.

So thats two positives - wouldn't you say?

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 04 May 23 - 01:02 AM

yes

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival Revival Positives
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 06 May 23 - 03:01 AM

Then there is the increase in skilled repairers of instruments.