BS: The Coronation

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 May 23 - 02:21 AM

I agree with all that Steve says about Charlie.
We haven't watched one minute of the bloomin' thing on TV. All the flags round here got drenched when the rain bucketed down yesterday afternoon. I feel rather relieved that it's all over.
In the several supermarkets we visited, it was telling to see numerous charity collecting pots for such causes as the homeless, children in need, and food bank collecting crates. Just imagine how all these good causes could be solved by the billions owned by the royal family and spent on the brouhaha of yesterday's pageantry!

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 23 - 03:03 AM

Billy Bragg on FarceBook yesterday. I have to say I completely agree with everything he says…

”One of the most annoying things about appearing on a topical debate programme on tv or radio is that you spend the day after thinking of all the things that you should have said in response to audience questions. My appearance yesterday on BBC1’s Question Time was no exception. It was obvious that we’d be discussing the Coronation and sure enough the first question was about the invitation to swear allegiance to King Charles III, his heirs and successors.

I made the comment that such things were obsequious, that pledges of loyalty to a new king belong in Game of Thrones rather than a modern democracy. What I should have done was to pick up on what one of the other guests had said just before I spoke, something that I think is more important than the flummery of a coronation. There were two MPs on the panel, one Labour, the other Tory, and both admitted that they had already pledged allegiance to the monarch - in their case the late Queen - when they became MPs.

They are required to do so due to the nature of our constitution. The current arrangement stems from the 1689 Bill of Rights, an agreement that William of Orange was required to sign in order to become King of England. Under this settlement, the monarch agrees to give parliament the right to exercise executive power while they in turn pledge their loyalty to the crown. As democracy developed, the power of parliament grew while the monarch assumed a figurehead role, but the concept of the crown in parliament has remained the same. As a result, the people are not sovereign in their own parliament - the government acts in the name of the crown.

Although the administrative powers of the monarchy - the right to make laws and raise taxes - have long been under democratic control, that are some very important powers that the government have retained, powers that they can use without recourse to parliamentary debate. These so-called ‘royal prerogatives’ include the right to declare war and the right to sign treaties. In practice, prime ministers have chosen to let MPs debate treaties and the Iraq War was debated and voted for by parliament. However, while these precedents remain uncodified, there is always a danger that an irresponsible prime minister could seek to exercise what are the final few remnants of absolutism.

What we need is a written constitution, a document that begins ‘We, the People’, a modern Bill of Rights that protects citizens from abuse and can’t be abolished by a government with a majority, as the Tories are threatening to do with the Human Rights Act. Removing the crown from the constitution will allow us to end the anomaly of the royal prerogatives, replace the House of Lords with an elected chamber and ask incoming MPs to pledge allegiance to the people of the United Kingdom, rather than one person.

We could hold a referendum on retaining a ceremonial monarchy that does the things that monarchists like - attract tourists, open hospitals, offer a sense of continuity - as well as the things we all enjoy - like providing an excuse for extra public holidays and giving people like the Sex Pistols something to rage against.

The spectacle of what we all know as the Queens Speech would have to go of course. That big gold throne in the House of Lords would look splendid in a museum. More importantly, the symbolism of that event - of a monarch summoning our elected representatives to bow before them - might make us all feel less like subjects and more like citizens who are sovereign in their own parliament.”

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 23 - 04:55 AM

Well, much as I hate to admit it here, we watched the main bit in the Abbey. As I said earlier, I love the pomp and ceremony. I was brought up in the Orthodox faith and my earliest memories of religious rites are of the ceremony and show of the Orthodox mass sung in archaic Slavonic. I had no idea what they were on about and it was so uncomfortable and boring for a kid to stand about for over an hour but now I can sit on my comfy sofa and watch these things objectively on my wide screen TV, it is great :-) Take the god nonsense out of religious rites and they are very entertaining. Remove the royal rubbish and the coronation is the same

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 23 - 04:57 AM

It's just struck me. Maybe that is why I am into fantasy fiction and films. You don't have to believe in something to enjoy it :-D

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 23 - 05:33 AM

I watched it too, Dave and, like you, I enjoyed the pomp and ceremonial stuff which I believe ‘we’ do very well. I enjoyed the music very much indeed, especially ‘Zadok the Priest’, Bryn Terfel, and the Gospel group (although I wish they’d stood still while they sang, I found the emoting and ‘dancing’ embarrassingly cringeworthy).

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 23 - 05:36 AM

I hate ‘dancing’ choirs! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 23 - 07:35 AM

The idea of an elected Lords has always troubled me slightly. I think you can have too many elections. We have local elections and general elections already and the former get low voter turnouts. I can't help thinking that extra Lords elections would suffer similarly. Low turnouts in elections are not what democracies need, and frequent elections could lead to voter fatigue. I like the idea of a revising chamber but I think we need some alternative means of deciding who's in it. One things for sure: it seriously needs slimming down. It also needs no more jobs for the boys, and no fee unless you show up for the whole day.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Bill D
Date: 07 May 23 - 08:57 AM

I woke up at 6:30 here, and as I was snuggling in to go back to sleep, I remembered that it was set to happen about 7:00, so I flipped on the TV at the end of my bed and gazed at the event on 4-5 different stations.
My takeaway was that it would be hard for the country to give up the pageantry. I would hope that, eventually, after removing the monarchy, some sort of ceremony could happen, say, every 10 years to mollify those who crave such things. Tourism brings money, and there are SO many artifacts that can't just be tossed out.. ;>).
   Yeah, I can see issues about what to do with descendants of the current batch, but other countries have solved that.
oh well, not my problem.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 07 May 23 - 09:44 AM

"Dancing choirs?" The vestiges of hereditary Calvinism in me cause me to shudder.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 23 - 10:53 AM

Agreed about the Lords, Steve, and you set me thinking. Don't elect them. Have it as a constantly changing rota. Sort of like Jury service! Maybe we should also do that for the titular head of state. Everyone gets chance to be monarch for a year. Have the draw on TV and turn it into a reality show :-D

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 23 - 11:21 AM

Tough one, Dave. What we wouldn't need is a House made up just of people drawn from the establishment, picked by the establishment...

We don't need the royals for tourism. That's just an oft-churned out canard. We are a very old country with a lot of history and a lot of historical places, few of them directly connected to the royals these days. In fact, few if any royal places appear in the top twenty UK tourist attractions. Our history will look after the tourism side of things.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 23 - 12:03 PM

The image of the King and Queen in their gilded cage on wheels was most telling.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 23 - 12:07 PM

Maybe it's back to plan A then. Keep the monarchy for those who love it but make sure it puts more into the economy than it takes out. To that end I suggest it is run by those who know how to make spectacle and entertainment pay - Disney! :-D

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 23 - 04:09 PM

I hope you're watching the concert, Steve. There are 2 Liverpool supporters singing You'll never walk alone at the mo :-D

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 23 - 04:54 PM

Saw that. Unfortunately, it appears to be a bloody awful concert! And now I'm enduring the far-right Gary Barlow...

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 23 - 05:10 PM

The light show was pretty damned good

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 23 - 05:17 PM

Oddly, Dave, the jocular part of my last post was deleted! I merely suggested that the right-wing Gary Barlow's support for Liverpool FC should be an arrestable offence... It was either a gremlin or a sense of humour deficit wot did it ...

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 23 - 05:20 PM

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 23 - 05:31 PM

At least we were spared a couple of the usual suspects they roll out at these kinds of events - bloody Rod Stewart and McCartney - two antediluvian has-beens who’ve lost their vocal ability and who should have thrown in the towel years ago.

Katie Perry looked and sounded good. Bryn Terfel and Andrea Bocelli sang well but I hate ‘YNWA’ and would have preferred it if they’d done ‘”Au Fond du Temple Saint”. Take that were Take That. The drones were amazing. The band were brilliant.

All IMHO, of course, and YMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 23 - 06:10 PM

They did not televise the bedding ceremony of the new Queen.
Apparently, Charles was not up to it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 May 23 - 06:45 PM

What a crass remark.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 23 - 06:48 PM

Can't agree about McCartney. He's a legend and a true talent. I won't be deleting my recording of his wonderful Glastonbury gig any time soon. Rod's just a bit of a tit. As for the big duet, Bryn is marvellous, but I have to ask myself whether Bocelli has ever sung a note in tune in his life. I feel the same about the sainted Maria Callas.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 23 - 03:21 AM

Never really liked Rod in the past but his more recent work is pretty good.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 23 - 04:31 AM

What about Penny Mordaunt as a Sith overlord? With the Poundland logo on her costume :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 23 - 06:06 AM

Despite Penny Mordaunt being a Tory {{spit}}, both Mrs Backwoodsperson and I were impressed with her performance. We thought she was very smartly dressed, and carried out her duties flawlessly and with grace. Not really surprising I suppose, as she’s ex-RN and still a member of the RNVR.

There’s a brilliant pic of her going round on SM, with the sword photoshopped into a huge kebab, and titled ‘Penny Mordaunt carrying the Kebab of State’! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 23 - 08:16 AM

Yes, she did well. Imagine if it had been the leader of the commons before last (Rees-Mogg) A victorian haunted pencil wielding a big sword. The stuff of nightmwares :-D

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 23 - 12:59 PM

The irony of "You'll never walk alone" being sung at the concert when the same song was used at Anfield to drown out "God save the King" is quite delicious :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 23 - 01:06 PM

We had an M&S stuffed turkey crown last night that we got (for free - don't ask!) at Christmas that's been in the freezer since. Very nice it was too, with some roasties and plenty of veg and gravy. Tonight I'm making Turkey a la King with the leftovers. The peppers, mushrooms and cream are standing by. Vol-au-vents seem a bit fussy, and true Italians never put chicken with pasta, so we're having it with rice. I assure you that every word of this is true!

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: fat B****rd
Date: 08 May 23 - 03:28 PM

flipped through most of the concert but it was good to see Steve Winwood,

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 23 - 07:07 PM

Well the Chicken a la King (OK, turkey) was perfectly fine. Very seventies. Like a creamy chicken curry without the curry. I couldn't help thinking that the cream sort of blandified everything. All those lovely ingredients, blandified. I'm thinking I might do a seventies night soon. Prawn cocktail, then chicken Kiyv, then arctic roll, washed down with Liebfraumilch. Blue Nun even. Might even start with pineapple chunks with cheap cheddar cubes on cocktail sticks. I'll do all this in reparation for my terrible seventies behaviour, when I swanned around everywhere wearing a Stuff The Jubilee badge (the Queen's silver job, don't you know). I even wore it when the future Mrs Steve and I went to meet Father Burke in Poplar, the priest who married us. He was a broad-minded chap, thank goodness!

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: G-Force
Date: 10 May 23 - 07:24 AM

I played Coronation Jig at the pub the other night. I was the only one who knew it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 May 23 - 06:01 PM

WE had our monthly session on Tuesday - theme night - "Kings, Queens, Lords and Ladies". My contributions included doing Vic Gammon's song, "Kings and Queens of England", Lord Inchiquin (O'Carolan) and some tunes put together by a friend to make up a "Queens Set" for QE2's platinum Jubilee, though none of the tunes were written for her! "Queen's Jigg (Queen Anne), "Queen Elizabeth March" (Queen Mum) and "The Queen's Welcome to Invercauld" (Queen Victoria).

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 May 23 - 05:28 AM

We managed to miss seeing the event live, due to having another longstanding commitment*. What I most object to is being stampeded by the Management into signing up for BBC iPlayer (to watch the highlights later) in such haste that I gave away some of my cherished off-grid anonymity to the Beeb. Herself can very pointedly get me flustered sometimes (often by saying "Why don't you just ---").

Now, of course, I can't remember the [redacted] passphrase I used. Grrr.

* No, not at a golf course in Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 May 23 - 08:26 AM

I am reminded of a conversation of 40 years ago. We had treated ourselves to a video recorder for Christmas. One of my mates asked me if I was going to record the queens speech .......... why the **** would I want to do that I asked .......... so you can play it again when you're out and miss it twice came the reply!

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 23 - 08:30 AM

My friend Conor was complaining about having the coronation on TV all day in the pubs etc. I pointed out that with a simple letter switch it could be all about him - The Conoration :-D

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 May 23 - 01:21 PM

Ha-ha Dave!
And at the singing weekend away last weekend, sandwich lunches included plenty of Coronation chicken!

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: robomatic
Date: 22 May 23 - 06:40 PM

From the high perch camera angle that I viewed it at, it sure looked like anyone who cared could fit in "the room where it happened."

Progress?

Subject: RE: BS: The Coronation
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 May 23 - 07:07 PM

I could not help wondering how long Charles III will live,
and how soon there will be another royal funeral.
I suppose his funeral, like his coronation,
will be all about
TRA-DI-TION! Tradition! (Fiddler on the Roof)