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What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?

katlaughing 19 Jan 00 - 08:58 PM
Chet W. 19 Jan 00 - 09:01 PM
Chet W. 19 Jan 00 - 09:04 PM
GUEST,Barry Finn 19 Jan 00 - 09:04 PM
katlaughing 19 Jan 00 - 09:08 PM
MMario 19 Jan 00 - 09:30 PM
JamesJim 19 Jan 00 - 11:23 PM
katlaughing 20 Jan 00 - 12:20 AM
Uncle_DaveO 20 Jan 00 - 09:46 AM
catspaw49 20 Jan 00 - 12:54 PM
bbelle 20 Jan 00 - 01:34 PM
katlaughing 20 Jan 00 - 01:43 PM
Bert 20 Jan 00 - 01:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Jan 00 - 01:55 PM
MMario 20 Jan 00 - 02:16 PM
kendall 20 Jan 00 - 02:31 PM
bbelle 20 Jan 00 - 02:32 PM
MMario 20 Jan 00 - 02:40 PM
bob schwarer 20 Jan 00 - 02:42 PM
MMario 20 Jan 00 - 02:47 PM
Bert 20 Jan 00 - 03:00 PM
bob schwarer 20 Jan 00 - 07:46 PM
JamesJim 20 Jan 00 - 08:56 PM
GUEST,MTed 20 Jan 00 - 11:15 PM
bob schwarer 21 Jan 00 - 07:16 AM
GUEST,micca 21 Jan 00 - 07:42 AM
kendall 21 Jan 00 - 07:58 AM
bob schwarer 21 Jan 00 - 12:03 PM
JamesJim 21 Jan 00 - 11:15 PM
Lonesome EJ 22 Jan 00 - 12:15 AM
Sandy Paton 22 Jan 00 - 12:38 AM
Lonesome EJ 22 Jan 00 - 02:18 AM
M. Ted (inactive) 22 Jan 00 - 10:18 AM
catspaw49 22 Jan 00 - 11:22 AM
M. Ted (inactive) 22 Jan 00 - 11:36 AM
JamesJim 22 Jan 00 - 02:31 PM
catspaw49 22 Jan 00 - 03:27 PM
GUEST,murray@mpce.mq.edu.au 23 Jan 00 - 05:53 AM
GUEST,_gargoyle 23 Jan 00 - 02:25 PM
catspaw49 10 Feb 00 - 07:00 PM
JamesJim 11 Feb 00 - 12:29 AM
Mark Clark 11 Feb 00 - 01:58 PM
katlaughing 11 Feb 00 - 03:34 PM
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Subject: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 08:58 PM

Any of you cooks out there know what the corn dodgers are that are referred to in the song Burl Ives did called "Starving to Death on My Government Claim"? The DT says it is also known as the "Lane County Bachelor".

My sister's music students who are learning this song, would like to know.

Thank you,

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: Chet W.
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 09:01 PM

Small pieces of deep-fried cornbread, usually with onion, still served with fried fish or seafood around here. Really good stuff. I could send you a mix.

Also called hush puppies.

Chet


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: Chet W.
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 09:04 PM

Glad you're still here Kat. I might have laid out for awhile. There's got to be a way to stop those idiots. Your friends will always know who you are.

Chet


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 09:04 PM

"His bread it was corn dodger, his meat I couldn't chaw
He drove me near distracted with the wagging of his jaw"

From Diamond Joe. Barry


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 09:08 PM

Thanks, Chet & GuestBarry!**BG**

Whew! QUESTION TO ANSWER IN 3 MINUTES FLAT!

I appreciate your help, both of you, and your encouragement, Chet.

kat (with a lower case "k", 'cause there is a Kat on here also)


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 09:30 PM

there are some old New England recipes out there for "corn dodgers" that are basicaly an unleavened corn bread. baked, not fried.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: JamesJim
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 11:23 PM

Got to get off of here. Suddenly have this great hunger for "corn dodgers (hush puppies)." That means I've either got to drive to the nearest fast food resturant, or find a recipe and make them myself. And, it's snowing like crazy out. Oh man kat, you would have to bring up food -- and at the most inconvienient time. I'm gone!


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 12:20 AM

LOL! JamesJim, are you gonna pick up enough for all of us?**BG**

Thanks, MMario. Now her kids can have a great debate!

Thanks, again, kat


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 09:46 AM

Barry Finn said: <"His bread it was corn dodger, his meat I couldn't chaw He drove me near distracted with the wagging of his jaw>

"His bread, it was corn dodger, His meat I couldn't chaw, But he charged me a half a dollar In the State of Arkansas!"

From song "The State of Arkansas.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 12:54 PM

Ever see the Jim Varney (Ernest) ad where he pops the hush puppy in his mouth that's come straight out of the deep fry??? I know he's stupid folks, but the guy is funny.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: bbelle
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 01:34 PM

In my southern family, hush puppies are hush puppies and corn dodgers are something different. My mother's recipe calls for: White Water Ground Corn Meal (NOT stone ground)and egg... nothing else. One egg per 2 cups of corn meal. Shape the mix into patties and fry in Crisco or any solid shortening. Fry them on slow so the inside cooks. Fry them on one side until it gets brown; then flip and fry the other side. They are best served hot ... split open and buttered and salt and peppered on both sides. YUMMMMM! ... moonchild


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 01:43 PM

Thanks, ya'll.

MC- Salt & pepper??? I never put anything on my cornbread but butter and sugar! MMMmmmm...good!*BG*


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 01:46 PM

When I lived in Alabama no one ever served anything actually called 'corn dodgers'. Had plenty of 'huuu-ush puppies' though. The best recipies included beer and various herbs.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 01:55 PM

Over in England the term "Jammy Dodgers" is used for Jaffa Cakes, which are a sort of cake/biscuit with some jam/jelly stuck on the top.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: MMario
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:16 PM

moonchild - those sound like the dodgers I had as a kid, only as I said, ours were baked....


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:31 PM

While I realize that the state I live in is at the end of the line, and, we dont always get the word, around here Hush Puppies are shoes. Thats why everything has a latin name. Local names vary too much to be reliable.(No, I dont know the latin name for shoe...or corn dodgers)


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: bbelle
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:32 PM

My version of corn dodgers is NOT cornbread. The most important ingredient is WATERGROUND WHITE CORN MEAL. It has a gritty texture, unlike stoneground, which has a smooth texture. It's not particularly easy to find, except in the south ... moonchild


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: MMario
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:40 PM

Zea Maize Brooklynnus?


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: bob schwarer
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:42 PM

Found several recipes looking around. Try this one:

Dixie Corn Dodgers 2 cups cornmeal 1/2 teaspoon salt 2 teaspoons baking powder 2 tablespoons vegetable oil, melted butter or bacon drippings About 2/3 cup milk Combine cornmeal, salt and baking powder. Stir in oil and enough milk to make a fairly thick mixture that will hold its shape. Form 8 bullet-shaped dodgers. Drop in a greased and heated, heavy iron skillet. Brown on one side, then turn to brown the bottom. Bob S.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: MMario
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 02:47 PM

mmmmmmMMMMMMM bacon drippin's, yeah! and fried up in drippin's too......my kind of coranary....I mean meal. Can practically taste them....

we used to have old fashioned cast iron pans in the shape of corn ears to cook them in.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 03:00 PM

And a couple of us at Annap's last Monday, could aptly be described as 'dawn codgers'.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: bob schwarer
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 07:46 PM

"Corn ear" pans are redily available. We even use ours once in a while.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: JamesJim
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 08:56 PM

Well, I'm back. Took a lot longer than I thought, but my appetite is thoroughly satisfied. I may not want to look at another corn dodger for a long time! catspaw, I have heard that Jim Varney has throat cancer. Just something I heard, but hope is not true. My source says there's little hope. Jim is from Lexington, Ky. and lives in Whitehall, Tenn. He's a neat guy. I hope he's alright.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: GUEST,MTed
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 11:15 PM

(I am not a guest--just can't get my cookie)

My corn dodgers were more like Bob's, basically a sort of cornmeal quickbread recipe, but more dough-like (though I am going to try the one egg recipe--it could work!!) they are supposed to be fried, not baked, because they are supposed to be the easiest and cheapest thing in the world to fix, a pioneer food--you could make a fire at night, thrown some grease on the skillet, and grind up the corn (coarse, because it is easier) and throw it in the skillet-

I think that the recipe book corn dodgers are a lot more civilized than the ones in the songs, which tended to be eaten day after day, when there wasn't much else to be had--my father reminded me that, in those good old days, people had belly aches a lot of the time, owing to the fact that without refrigeration, you were never sure just how well preserved anything was--also, you ate what you had, and didn't have the luxury of throwing something out if it was a bit discolored, or smelled a little odd--


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: bob schwarer
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 07:16 AM

I ate a lot of stuff when I was younger that I wouldn't try now. Raw hamburger sandwiches for instance. With a little spicing up it was really good.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: GUEST,micca
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 07:42 AM

Bob, they serve the same thing with a few capers and a thin sauce and call it Steak Tartare, and charge you a frenchman ( Armand deLeg) too for the privelage.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 07:58 AM

I'm so sorry to hear about Jim Varney...he cracks me up. Is he a smoker?


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: bob schwarer
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 12:03 PM

Micca: I still won't eat it anymore. That and raw bacon, which was another passion. Never did any harm as far as I know.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: JamesJim
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 11:15 PM

Jim Varney - Not sure about the smoking. Jim


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 12:15 AM

I always thought Varney was funny. From the first word out of his mouth he had Kentucky written all over him. He does a great impression of a lot of guys that I worked with. His Country Bumpkin act is just that though. Ever heard him do Shakespeare?Pretty powerful.

Now, y'all are discussin one of the simplest and finest of God's good foods. Hush puppies were always a touch greasy for me, but man! them cornpones! Fresh from the oven and slathered in butter. Everywhere you go, they seem to think cornbread is supposed to be a thick slice of sweet cake. Mom made it right- fluffy but toasty, and not sweet. Give me a big plate of green beans and ham, pones on the side, and leave me be for a while!

"Boil that cabbage down,boys...Turn them hoecakes round". NOW... what are hoecakes?

LEJ


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 12:38 AM

1789 ANBUREY Travels II. 335 Hoe cake is Indian corn ground into meal, kneaded into dough, and baked before a fire, but as the negroes bake theirs on the hoes that they work with, they have the appellation of hoe-cakes. (A Dictionary of Americanisms) Thus, a corn meal cake baked in front of a fire using the flat blade of a hoe in place of a pan or board.

Sandy


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 02:18 AM

Sandy, I think I might like those. Now to find a clean hoe..


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 10:18 AM

Hoe cakes, corn pone, Hush puppies, and corn dodgers--not to mention anadama bread, corn cakes, and corn bread--and, for a change, corn meal mush--variety sure is the spice of life!!!


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 11:22 AM

Well gawd knows I love cornbread anything...or so I thought until I was at a re-creation at a reconstructed village called Schoenbrunn, the first settlement in Ohio. Settled by Moravians and the native tribe together, it had a church, school, smithy...all the real community stuff. It was destroyed during the French and Indian War and the peaceful tribe was massacred--the only good Indian..........

Anyway, we're there and folks are doing all kinds of stuff from spinning to making soap outdoors. So here's me sniffin' around at one of the cookfires. The woman is baking cornbread in the "traditional style of the day and from a Moravian book and the corn was ground by rocks, etc,etc,blah. blah".......all well and good but I could use something to eat. She removes the cast iron pans from the fire and offers up samples on the trestle table. Fat Boy dives right onto a large chunk and friends, I can assure you that either the folk process had been at work on the recipe or this nice lady was the worst cook in East Ohio.

Did you ever stand with something in your mouth that is vaguely familiar, but so distasteful, you don't know quite what to do? Maybe she left some gravel in the meal, I dunno'. What made me think of it was Leej asking for a clean hoe. I imagine hoecakes to be similar, and perhaps a dirty hoe might add something....gawd knows it couldn't have hurt that stuff I had!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 11:36 AM

My second wife once made cornbread with spoiled Crisco Shortening---your description of the taste is eerily similar- maybe it was made from rancid fat or spoiled grease--the traditional Moravian kitchen always featured a pot that contained fat renderings collected from previous days, months, and years--

Needless to say, I am happily married to my third wife--


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: JamesJim
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 02:31 PM

Jim Varney - I live in Louisville, Ky. and have a good friend who went to high school with Jim V. Indeed, Jim was a fine Shakespearian actor, even then. He found that his odd looks made him a natural for his now famous character. He began his career doing commercials, several in Nashville. That's probably why he moved to Whitehall, which is about 20/30 miles from Nashville. Betcha he likes "Hush Puppies" too! Again, I am hearing bad news about his health. Jim


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 03:27 PM

I had heard he was doing OK with the throat cancer, but can't seem to find diddly squat on the net JJ......I too had friend...friend's wife actually...who went to school with him in Lexington. He did Purity ads in Nashville and all over TN, but prior had done an Army sergeant character for Pruett's Foodtown in Chattanooga. I was living there at the time and then later I was living in Nashville as he made Ernest a household name. Never dreamed he'd take it so far. Brenda said he was a relly good guy. Wish we knew more about his health.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: GUEST,murray@mpce.mq.edu.au
Date: 23 Jan 00 - 05:53 AM

Lonesome: I think you will kill the flavor if the hoe is clean!

I would imagine that someone in the Lane County Batchelor's position wouldn't have eggs but would have corn meal and fat that would tend to get rancid. He says they are solid and tough. I imagine a corn meal, fat, and water mixture baked in the coals of a fire; but I have no reason for that guess except I have made some pretty solid, tough cakes that way ;}

Murray


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: GUEST,_gargoyle
Date: 23 Jan 00 - 02:25 PM

The White House Cookbook Dedicated to Francis Folsom Clevland - Bride of the Whitehouse (my maternal grandmother's favorite cookbook, judging by its wear.

Makes a clear distinction between the fried fritters mentioned above and what it labels Southern Corn-Meal Pone or CORN DODGERS

"Mix with cold waater into a soft dough one quart of southern corn-meal, sifted, a teaspoon of salt, a tablespoon of butter or lard melted. Mold into oval cakes with the hands and bake in a very hot oven, in well greased pans. To be eaten hot. The crust should be brown." page 221....(copyright/publisher page missing.)

Burl Ives, Song in America our Musical HeritageWayfairer Music Company, 1962, p. 164 lists the song as "Greer County Bachelor"

Given:
1. the age of the cookbook
2.the "bachelor simplicity of the recipe"
3. the song lyric "My bread is corn-dodgers, both solid and tough."

I would conclude the above, without any levening (ie baking powder or soda) , to be the "authentic" item you are seeking.


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Feb 00 - 07:00 PM

Shows how little you can sometimes find out on the net.

I just heard on the news that Jim Varney died of lung cancer. I know he may not have been what this forum is about, but he was a funny man and a talented humorist, able to bring out the wonderful side of his alter-ego, Ernest. His movies were simply "entertaining" and that's become a rare commodity. Gotta' say....I'll miss him.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: JamesJim
Date: 11 Feb 00 - 12:29 AM

Ditto Catspaw. Jim Varney was extremely talented and I'll certainly miss him. Jim


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Feb 00 - 01:58 PM

I remember several references to corn dodgers in the John Wayne - Katherine Hepburn film "Rooster Cogburn." At one point he throws them like rocks as a weapon. They were "trail food" which implies that they wouldn't spoil on long treks.

There is a line in which Hepburn asks Wayne why they are called corn dogers. He tells her he guesses it's because they have to dodge the corn whisky running around in his innards.

- Mark


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Subject: RE: What are corn dodgers, in old Ives song?
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Feb 00 - 03:34 PM

Thanks, Mark! My sister will love that one!

Spaw & JamesJim, I was sorry to hear about Jim Varney, too, though I didn't know much about him, I understand he was incredibly talented.

katlaughing


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