BS: Who or what do you trust?

Subject: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 May 23 - 07:11 AM

I suspect people who trust are happier and more social people but as a result more vulnerable. In politics, trust is aggressively sought.
In medical terms some people have a condition that cause them to constantly trust which puts them in harm's way. Oxytocin, a hormone, will cause a person or new mother to trust and nurture.

I don't trust so I don't know what trust is. In music trust is assumed and virtually flows naturally. In economics trust is the foundation of money. Everyone seems to want it and some people seem to have it but trust seems to be central in everything from science to religion.

I don't even buy 'in god we trust'.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 May 23 - 07:23 AM

Trust seems so important we ought to have a 'trustometer'.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 May 23 - 09:19 AM

I have no faith, but I have trust.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: gillymor
Date: 23 May 23 - 09:28 AM

I haven't trusssed anything but a hernia back in aught '6.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 23 - 09:57 AM

I decided against joining the Tory party last year when I heard their new three-word slogan: "Must Trust Truss."

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 23 - 01:47 PM

I don't trust Truss's truss...

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 May 23 - 02:30 PM

In music trust is assumed and virtually flows naturally.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Could you elaborate please?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 May 23 - 03:22 PM

The International Language of music and the emotions it inspires is so universal I trust what it says to me. The Brotherhood of Musicians in collaboration is a trustworthy collective when making music. What they do in their private lives is a different matter. I trust music more than salesmen.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Charmion
Date: 23 May 23 - 03:47 PM

Music is a product of culture, shared by those who share the culture. Indian, Chinese or Arabic music may appeal to the ear of European-descended people, but we don’t understand it well enough to play or sing it, or even listen knowledgeably, without a lot of effort, beginning with learning new tonal systems and languages.

So I don’t believe in any international brotherhood of music, or musicians.

Brotherhood can run kinda thin even among European musicians. The “Horst Wessel Lied” had a composer and many players and singers, after all, and the Wagner faction based at Bayreuth was rather thoroughly Nazi.

I wait to trust people until I see what they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 May 23 - 04:26 PM

what u hear is what u get.

There is an Indian Raga that speaks to me almost every day.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 May 23 - 04:49 PM

The Brotherhood of Musicians in collaboration is a trustworthy collective when making music.

"... when making ..." maybe, but not necessarily "... when writing ..." . It's the Brotherhood of Lawyers who gain when accusations of plagiarism arise.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Helen
Date: 23 May 23 - 04:50 PM

This song speaks to me, Abdel Gadir Salim - Bassama

It is a track on a 3 CD set which I bought in 1994 called Africa: Never Stand Still . There is so much beautiful music on it. I trust the musicians to speak to me, musically and to my heart and soul.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 May 23 - 01:23 AM

There is little or no trust between those singing rebel songs in praise of the I.R.A. and the members of an Orange Lodge marching band.

How much trust would be placed in someone who tried to sing The Red Flag at a political convention in a red state?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 23 - 05:09 AM

If you don't trust someone it means that you suspect their motives. I have no idea why most composers were moved to write most of their particular pieces. There are exceptions, of course, for example in the case of a composer fulfilling a commission, but even then I don't know why they chose particular notes or harmonies or rhythms, etc. I've played with a good few bunches of musicians, and I see various levels of ego emerging at times, or simply just wilfulness (as with one bloke who, despite our desires, always tried to force us into playing very fast just because he could...). So I don't see where the concept of trust comes into this. There's tacit agreements all round, spiced with bonhomie, and that carries the day. If I go for a wee, I trust the banjo player sitting next to me not to take a swig of my pint.

Music is art, and art is, first and foremost, one of the highest flights of human communication. If that isn't the primary motive of music, to me it's sullied. I see far too much ego in the music of Liszt and Wagner and I won't listen. But I dislike Wagner for other reasons to do with his detestable racist attitudes, so can I trust my own judgement?

And I can't stand that whiny, twangy, endless Indian music. Trust me, I hate it.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 23 - 06:34 AM

I trust people initially unless they are driving a car in which case I would not trust them not to do something stupid! It works for me and if someone does something to betray that trust, they get no second chance. There are degrees of course. I have no reason to not trust many posters on here as I have not met many. I do however mistrust some motives and statements but that is their internet persona rather than them.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 May 23 - 07:29 AM

The amount of trust I have for others is based on the way others have treated me over the years. However, having been let down many times, I still endeavour to trust...at times against my better judgement.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 23 - 07:34 AM

Well it would be a miserable life if you went around suspecting everyone of jiggerypokery all the time. Part of the joy of living is to take a chance every now and again. Sometimes you come a cropper but mostly you're OK. As they say, fortune favours the brave.

Oddly, and possibly inexplicably, the people I've come to trust the least are doctors...

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 May 23 - 07:23 AM

There is wisdom there.
Virtuosity is rare but when you encounter it you know. The Raga I spoke of was just a tabla and Sitar in a call-and-answer format copying each other while gradually going faster with more complexity in rhythm and pitch. Then a syncopation with hesitation emerged building in a frenzy toward a finality that could only be called orgasmic with a kama sutra eroticism that when practiced in lovemaking produces remarkable results. The laughter cheers and roar from the NYC crowd was powerful. That broadcast on WBAI was a very fortunate find for me for years to 'come'.
It was more organic than Howard Hanson's Romantic symphony or a variation in Enigma variations but beauty is in the *** of the beholder.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 May 23 - 10:39 AM

I don't want my music to be orgasmic. I want it to provide me with edification through joy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 May 23 - 12:31 PM

The idea is that art's main purpose is to supply moral uplift.
Some need it more than others.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 May 23 - 02:46 PM

Charmion: I wait to trust people until I see what they do.

Give them the benefit of the doubt. Wait to distrust people until you see what they do. Don't pre-judge. That is the basis of 'prejudice'.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 May 23 - 03:06 PM

I agree, Nigel. I also just mentioned you on the Morning Person thread coz I keep reading the second part of that title as Nigel Parsons :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 May 23 - 04:26 PM

Well I don't know what moral uplift means. Just because you're a highly-talented painter, sculptor or composer it doesn't necessarily mean that you're full of moral fortitude. Gesualdo was a wonderful composer who murdered his wife and lover in cold blood. Caravaggio probably murdered someone too. Wagner was a vicious antisemite. Schubert consorted with prostitutes, some of whom would be regarded today as underage. Ben Britten was known to be rather fond of little boys. Picasso was a notorious abuser of women. So, though nobody's perfect, and we are uplifted by the output of the people I've mentioned, I wouldn't exactly regard them as champions of morality and I'll look elsewhere for my moral uplift. As for the purpose of art, I'd say it can't be defined. What I might cherish might be reviled by others and vice versa. My reaction to a work of art is an intensely private matter, dependent on so many things, and it might even be a different reaction at every exposure.

By the way, I'd like to know where the moral uplift is in those thousands of superb nudes that were clearly intended for the male gaze, or in those beautifully sculpted, cherubic and (of course) naked putti that adorn the glorious churches that I visit in Italy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 May 23 - 05:18 PM

I wouldn't trust Rolf Harris's didgeridoo either.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 May 23 - 07:38 PM

Interesting tangent Steve. Art, independent of the artist, can supersede the sublime.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 May 23 - 08:09 PM

I don't know what that means.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 May 23 - 08:10 PM

I recall my admiration of a sculpture by Gian Lorenzo Bernini where he created the illusion of supple softness of human flesh in marble. He also could simulate hair like no other artist. I did not judge the art by the lifetime of the artist.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 May 23 - 07:11 PM

I trust the counselor/therapist who guided me on my journey
through recovery from sexual abuse.
Trust is a particular challenge for abuse survivors.

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 07:35 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/01/22/the-countries-that-trust-their-government-most-and-least-infographic/?sh=7

Subject: RE: BS: Who or what do you trust?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 23 - 07:38 AM

I wonder about trust data in Russia.