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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 13 Oct 24 - 03:19 AM ”His Excellency Keir Starmer” I dunno about propaganda, but I don’t trust a news organisation that is so slack in its attention to detail that it can’t even get the Prime Minister’s appellation right. As PM, he’s a member of the Privy Council, and thus the correct appellation is ‘The Right Honourable’. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 Oct 24 - 11:38 PM Did you take a look, Dick? It's a UK site. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 12 Oct 24 - 03:31 AM Teacher asked little Billy to use "propagana" in a sentence "I saw a really good bike in the shop the other day but didn't get a good look. Next time I pass I'll have a proper gander" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 12 Oct 24 - 02:36 AM but don't trust news organizations. quote And rightly so all foreign political news is biased from the point of view of who is writing it whether it is USA CHINA RUSSIA, They all use political news as propaganda |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Oct 24 - 01:18 PM That's pretty much the quick read I took on the site - down some conspiracy rabbit holes, but the "about" page suggests they want to be truthful but don't trust news organizations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Oct 24 - 01:06 PM The stretch of coast I visited was very laid back, Dick. I understand it is a loyalist area so what they would make of an Englishman of Polish decent that was brought up in Ukrainian orthodoxy, educated Catholic and anti-religion by choice I have no idea :-) Stilly - I don't know UK Column but a quick lookup indicates that it is quite factual with most of its news but also aligns itself with right wing conspiracy theories. With that synopsis I would not trust them but maybe that is a bit blinkered. I dunno! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Oct 24 - 12:11 PM I have a question and I'll try to remember to come back for the answer. Or someone can send a PM if it would start a squabble. Where does a site like this - UK Column - fit in with some of your opinions regarding national and world politics from a UK perspective? https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/uk-column-news-30th-september-2024 I was pointed to the site and landed on this recent story because a US friend was opining about an unnamed (but we all knew it was his ex-spouse) former friend who has taken a dark turn in her political views. A few minutes in she starts to speak; I didn't listen to the whole program, but enough to realize I know very little about some of this stuff from the UK perspective. Who politically would this group align with? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 11 Oct 24 - 11:21 AM Dave, I would not move to northern Ireland if i were you.I did not like the tension i experienced there |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Oct 24 - 09:48 AM Oh, and just to annoy the Irish nationalists, the second largest island of the group, Ireland, is also part of the British isles. Nothing to do with politics or nationality - It is just a geographic classification :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Oct 24 - 09:45 AM The official definition of the UK is not England, Scotlans etc. but the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. In turn, Great Britain is the biggest island of the British isles and comprises of England, Scotland and Wales. Thee British Isles are the set of islands off the north west coast of Europe! Just to confuse matters :-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Thompson Date: 11 Oct 24 - 09:31 AM Dave, I'd like to think so, but who knows. Nations and alliances meld and separate like buckets of microbes, despite what their poets and lovers may wish. Oh, and yes, I know what the UK is, curently: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Whereas Britain is England, Scotland and Wales. (Always spoken in that order; I wonder how this fits with the universal order of vowels in which it's always the big bad wolf and never the bad big wolf.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Oct 24 - 08:38 AM That's as may be Doug but a great issue was made about the different nations of the UK voting in different ways. The BBC Brexit results page is about the clearest I think - here I was trying to clarify Thompson's question "Is Brexit mostly British or English?" and, on relfection, it is neither! You sum it up well with "The referendum was held in the UK" but I think Thompson needed clarification on what constitues the UK. Your point about NI is true but is still a bone of contention for many. I visited Whitehead, just north of Carrickfergus, recently and it is a lovely stretch of coast. Do you think if I move there they will eventualy be classed as in the EU? :-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Doug Chadwick Date: 10 Oct 24 - 07:55 PM Within those 4 nations only England and Wales voted to leave .... England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland did not vote on whether or not to leave the EU. The referendum was held in the UK - a single entity. If the constituent countries are considered separately from the UK, then the Greater London region should also be considered as it had a larger electorate than Scotland and N. Ireland put together and voted 60%/40% to remain. ..... but, sadly, it applied to the whole of the UK. Brexit is not being applied in Northern Ireland in the same way as in Great Britain. There is a de facto customs border in the Irish sea between NI and the rest of the UK. DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Thompson Date: 10 Oct 24 - 06:35 PM Is Brexit only English and Welsh, then? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Oct 24 - 01:06 PM The United Kingdom is actually the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It comprises of England, Scotland, Wales and, as mentioned, Northern Ireland. Within those 4 nations only England and Wales voted to leave but, sadly, it applied to the whole of the UK. Bearing that in mind, can you rephrase the question so it makes sense? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Thompson Date: 10 Oct 24 - 04:29 AM Is Brexit mostly British or English? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 10 Oct 24 - 03:01 AM The Labour party will lose the next election if they cannot clear up the mess they have been left, which includes the effect of Brexit |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 10 Oct 24 - 02:38 AM There’s a school of thought that the Tories lost the election so badly, not because they’d lurched too far to the Right, but because they hadn’t lurched far enough to the Right. I’m beginning to think they might be on to something. God help us (but not the Tory party). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 09 Oct 24 - 05:55 PM Whatever tactical voting went on in the Tory party today went spectacularly wrong if they were hoping to steer the party back to the centre. Cleverly was far from what his name suggests but at least he was almost moderate. Badenoch and Jenrick are too far right to do anyone any good. Well, I suppose it will make Starmer's Labour at least look more like Socialists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 04 Oct 24 - 07:49 AM That too a substantial chunk out of my day comparing and contrasting Russell's and Marx's views o force and materiality. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 04 Oct 24 - 03:54 AM “You may kill an artist or a thinker, but you cannot acquire his art or his thought. You may put a man to death because he loves his fellow-men, but you will not by so doing acquire the love which made his happiness. Force is impotent in such matters; it is only as regards material goods that it is effective. For this reason the men who believe in force are the men whose thoughts and desires are preoccupied with material goods.“ — Bertrand Russell, Political Ideals (1917), Ch. I: Political Ideals, p. 6 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: keberoxu Date: 01 Oct 24 - 03:54 PM The Economist had an opinion page that was a hoot, regarding the Conservative party and "swivel-eyed loons". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 01 Oct 24 - 02:26 AM policies are more important than personalities, what is needed right now are some trade deals between the uk and europe. Truss is a back number from the past she is unimportant, a careerist who was not very bright and who is not even an MP anymore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 11:21 AM Amen to that Dave, a thousand Amens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 30 Sep 24 - 11:12 AM I have been having a discussion with a Tory friend (we have lots in common and don't fall out over politics) about the freebies and back handers to MPs. We both agree that it is ludicrous that it happens in any party. Whether any one is worse than another is debatable but the level of hypocrisy in the party that turned a blind eye to Johnson's (the biggest grifter of our time) undeclared shenanigans playing holier than thou with Starmer just about sums up their attitude to morality. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 10:50 AM @Raindog - I just watched the Truss Q&A session on YT, and you’re correct, she didn’t say the Tories would have won the GE if she was the PM, the Guardian’s report is correct. Black mark to the BBC for allowing that to be reported on ‘Politics Live At The Conference’ when it appears not to have been true. However, the Q&A session shows, in stark relief, what a truly appalling woman Truss is. Check it out, if you have the stomach for it… Liz Truss Q&A at the Tory Conference 30/9/24 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 09:51 AM Vested interEst hs long been a problem as well as corruption.Ernest Marples who had a road haulage business, was made minister for transport and appointed Beeching who savaged the rail network |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 09:50 AM ”It also reports her as saying keeping Boris would have given them the best chance of winning.” Just goes to show what a twonk she is. Even by Tory standards she’s a nut-bag, three sheets to the wind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 09:47 AM It was stated on BBC2’s ‘Politics Live’ that she said it, although there was no actual clip shown. If the BBC can’t be relied upon, wh can? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Rain Dog Date: 30 Sep 24 - 08:33 AM "In a question-and-answer session at the Tory conference this morning, Liz Truss claimed that the Tories would have won the GE if she had still been PM." Did she say that? The Guardian reports that she said she would have done better than Sunak. It also reports her as saying keeping Boris would have given them the best chance of winning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Rain Dog Date: 30 Sep 24 - 08:25 AM With regards to gifts and donations to parties of both money & staff, I think we can all agree that the situation needs to be looked at more closely. It does not matter which party you support, the whole thing does not look great. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 08:19 AM In a question-and-answer session at the Tory conference this morning, Liz Truss claimed that the Tories would have won the GE if she had still been PM. Discuss… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 30 Sep 24 - 08:06 AM Thanks Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 30 Sep 24 - 07:40 AM Dave: I was going to read the link, but I see that the Daily Mirror now only gives options to accept advertising cookies, or pay to read. But the 'London Economic' covers the Mirror's report and can be read without cookies: London Economic |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 24 - 07:30 AM As I said earlier, Dave, I strongly suspect that receiving gifts is common practice amongst politicians of every stamp. And trying to make an issue of Starmer and others accepting gifts leading up to the GE is an indication of how little the Tories actually have to offer. It’s reminiscent of the way they tried to make capital out of Liam Byrne’s note that ‘there’s no money left’ in 2010 - it was a long-running joke left by Chancellors ever since Reginald Maudling, a Tory, began the joke by leaving a similar kind of note for Jim Callaghan in 1964. It’s a sad commentary on our politics nowadays that more energy seems to be put into this kind of nonsense than into the real problems we are facing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 30 Sep 24 - 05:47 AM I see that they are all coming out of the woodwork now David Cameron and wife Samantha got freebie clothes paid for with Tory donor cash I think the con party will wish they had never opened that bucket of worms. Let he who is without sin... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 02:41 PM …or even Guinness! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 12:35 PM ”I want to see one of them dirt taxis that they have in Ireland.” Only visible to old blokes with their bellies full o’Guiness… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Sep 24 - 11:05 AM I want to see one of them dirt taxis that they have in Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 27 Sep 24 - 08:51 AM > how wealth inequality arose Inequality has always been the case, since at least New Testament times; an even distribution of wealth is a state of unstable equilibrium. As the Good Lord said:
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 27 Sep 24 - 08:33 AM > Is there a difference between a 'deposit' and 'savings'? Hm: methinks "savings" are for the long term, and a "deposit" is more for day-to-day activities. Different interest rates, and variations of ease of access, also apply. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Rain Dog Date: 27 Sep 24 - 08:02 AM Actions sometimes have unintended consequences. From The Guardian earlier this week Fifty pubs a month shut in first half of year in England and Wales, figures show "Meanwhile, reports suggest the chancellor, Rachel Reeves, is considering raising alcohol duties in next month’s budget as she looks to plug what Labour says is a £22bn hole in the public finances. However, this will be damaging for wine and spirits producers, who say they are still dealing with the fallout of the largest single duty increase in 50 years last year, when there was a 20% rise on 85% of wines. On Friday, figures from HM Revenue and Customs showed there had been a £1.3bn drop in alcohol duty receipts in the 12 months up to the end of August, which the Wine and Spirit Trade Association attributes to a drop in sales caused by the higher duties. Miles Beale, the chief executive of the WSTA, said: “Last year’s damaging reforms to the alcohol excise duty system, including the largest single duty hike in almost 50 years, have hit businesses, consumers and the government purse. Prices have risen, sales are down, and so is duty income by over £1.3bn.” It is calling on the government to freeze duty on wine and spirits for at least two years to allow sales to recover." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: DaveRo Date: 27 Sep 24 - 05:57 AM It's worth reading Thomas Piketty's Capital in the Twenty-First Century (though it's hard going!) to understand how wealth inequality arose - he goes back to the 19th Century in Britain, France, and the US - and why it's increasing now. Most wealth now is held offshore and beyond the reach of national governments. His proposed solution - a globally agreed wealth tax - doesn't seem imminent! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 05:05 AM While UK taxes are higher than in most other English-speaking developed economies (such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Ireland and the United States), they are considerably lower than in most other western European countries (average tax revenue amongst the EU14. Read more was 39.9% of GDP. QUOTE BELOW FROM SOCIALIST WORKER News Here are five facts that show why we should tax the rich far more: The total wealth of the richest 1,000 people in Britain in April 2016 was over £575 billion. It had risen by £29 billion in a year and has more than doubled since the start of the financial crisis in 2008. The richest 10 percent have nearly half the total wealth in Britain. Chief executives at Britain’s top firms on average rake in £5.3 million a year, 386 times more than workers paid the national living wage. Very wealthy people have had more wealth stuffed into their pockets by tax cuts—again and again. In 1973, the top rate of income tax, paid by the very rich, was 75 percent. Labour’s right wing chancellor Denis Healey raised it to 83 percent in 1974. For nine years of Margaret Thatcher’s Tory government the top rate was 60 percent. Today it is 45 percent. A third of Britain is owned by 1,200 families descended from the aristocracy. In Scotland 432 people own more than half of all private rural land |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: DaveRo Date: 27 Sep 24 - 04:45 AM The Sandman wrote: I am not going to engage in semantics with you, over words like poor and not so poor...Who gets the payment, and who doesn't, is important. It was you who suggested upthread that it should be means tested, without knowing that was what is being proposed. It's more complicated than simple headlines suggest. ...If starmer was an astute politician he would compromise on this...I agree. Backwoodsman wrote: The government have made a big mistake, and the uproar it has caused is distracting the attention of the public away from the other, good, and important things they are doing.I agree 100%. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 04:26 AM I’m one of those who has, in the past, benefitted from the Winter Fuel Allowance, despite the fact that I am well-enough off to neither need nor want it. I would have preferred it if the WFA had been properly means-tested right from its inception, and I would prefer it even more if this government had decided to properly means-test in now. The government have made a big mistake, and the uproar it has caused is distracting the attention of the public away from the other, good, and important things they are doing. I think Starmer will rue the day… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 04:21 AM imo, it is still not acceptable .the majority of pensioners, who are not well off ,will be affected by this. I am not going to engage in semantics with you, over words like poor and not so poor. If starmer was an astute politician he would compromise on this, if he does not, this could possibly lose him the next election |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: Backwoodsman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 04:17 AM Please note the thread title - ‘Brexit and other UK political topics’. The Republic of Ireland is not a part of the UK, and discussions about its tax regime have no place on this, our one and only permitted UK politics thread. If someone wants to discuss RoI taxation, please start a new thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: DaveRo Date: 27 Sep 24 - 04:03 AM But not all those millions are poor. Changes to Winter Fuel Payment |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3 From: The Sandman Date: 27 Sep 24 - 03:56 AM https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gv632d05lo[from the BBC ] millions of pensioners will lose their fuel allowance |
