BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Dec 24 - 02:29 AM

That would send anyone clean round the bend

I'll get my coat...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Dec 24 - 04:59 PM

The problem with illegal drugs isn't just that they make monsters into millionaires but that when a drug (medical or recreational) is produced without government oversight, testing and auditing, it tends to be cut with God knows what. In my youth, there were occasional deaths when batches of heroin would be cut with Sanilav, a corrosive toilet cleaner.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Dec 24 - 02:52 PM

An article from Byline Times

‘Britain’s Deeply Unfair Two-Party Electoral System is Dying and MPs Know It’

Labour's huge majority of seats flatters to deceive but I doubt they will do anything to try and make elections fairer.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 12:32 PM

vote passed to ban smoking for anyone born after 2008

Actually, vote passed to continue considering this measure.
The bill will face further scrutiny from MPs and peers but is likely to become law.

BBC here

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 11:32 AM

vote passed to ban smoking for anyone born after 2008

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:34 AM

and then we have the problem of the island of Ireland, where the north is in the UK, so smugglers will be encouraged to cross the border etc

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:30 AM

yes good point, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:14 AM

I can see the reasoning there and it makes sense to me. But I am an ex-smoker so probably biased. The worry is, will tobacco become like other restricted drugs and just go underground. Making money for criminal gangs :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:04 AM

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/smoking-ban-introduced-to-protect-children-and-most-vulnerable
link from gov uk

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 03:50 AM

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24746978.tobacco-restriction-plans-will-save-lives-scotland/?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-gb LINK about new tobacco bill

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 12:13 PM

Oh, the delicious irony!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 11:56 AM

let us start, why not

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 05:02 AM

Farage is a UK politician. Russell is not. Yes, it would be lovely if everyone was nice to each other but that is not going to happen on a politics thread now us it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 01:41 AM

Calling Farage odious achieves nowt hence the relevance of the quote to to UK politics
quote
"We have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things that we don't like. We can only live together in that way, and if we are to live together and not die together we must learn the kind of charity and kind of tolerance which is absolutely vital to We have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things that we don't like. We can only live together in that way, and if we are to live together and not die together we must learn the kind of charity and kind of tolerance which is absolutely vital to the continuation of human life on this planet.”
the UK support of USA sending long range missiles to attack Russia is endangering the continuation of human life on this planet.”

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 05:33 PM

Nice philosophy, Dick, but nowt to do with UK politics. Feel free to start a thread on the wisdom of Russell and I am sure it would be a great success.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 04:15 PM

In this world which is getting more and more closely interconnected, we have to learn to tolerate each other. We have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things that we don't like. We can only live together in that way, and if we are to live together and not die together we must learn the kind of charity and kind of tolerance which is absolutely vital to the continuation of human life on this planet.”
— Bertrand Russell, BBC Face to Face Interview (5 March 1959)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 02:35 PM

Paul Openshaw, Dorset folksinger, has a worm farm. I wonder if he could claim tax relief on his worms.

When we were in the EU, I used to urge him to try for an EU subsidy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 02:10 PM

The Mad Hatters Tea Party

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 01:33 PM

The case against the inheritance tax on farm land is rapidly becoming a laughing stock. Not only do we have the self confessed tax avoider, Clarkson, on the campaign but I see the odious Farage is also on the bandwagon. So leading the farmers in opposing the tax we have a man who has openly done damage to the case against the tax and the man who initiated Brexit and lost the farmers all their EU subsidies.

You couldn't make this stuff up!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 11:44 AM

Agreed, Nigel: ihat's the difference between value and valuation. Once money is involved, and the numbers get nontrivial, the discussion becomes very one-dimensional ("Is this number bigger than that one?"), and common sense goes out to lunch.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 11:21 AM

Agreed, Nigel. I’m pretty sure that ‘value’ and ‘price’ are conflated in many people’s minds but, of course, they aren’t necessarily the same thing.

But I think we both know what the author of the piece meant, don’t we?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 10:56 AM

BWM:
I'm glad you like that quote:
”Farms have become a financial tool to avoid inheritance tax. This is why the value of farmland has increased so dramatically.
The new inheritance tax rates on farms will help stop that , it's actually in real farmers favour, if their farm land hadn't been inflated artificially they wouldn't need to worry, they would have been below the threshold anyway.”

I would question their claim that the 'value' of farmland has increased.
The price has increased, but as the second paragraph makes clear, the price is 'artificially inflated' so the value is unchanged.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 09:06 AM

And I’ve always thought Clarkson was a gobby knob. Having him and Badenoch as speakers at the demo yesterday does the farmers’ cause no service at all, IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 09:02 AM

I read two good comments on social media this morning. I’m not naming the people who wrote them because I don’t know them personally, but I feel their views are well worth repeating…

The first…

”Farms have become a financial tool to avoid inheritance tax. This is why the value of farmland has increased so dramatically.
The new inheritance tax rates on farms will help stop that , it's actually in real farmers favour, if their farm land hadn't been inflated artificially they wouldn't need to worry, they would have been below the threshold anyway.”

and the second…

”Farming needs to be supported of course, but the inheritance tax is possibly not the best thing to protest about as it will affect a small number of farmers and rich landowners like Dyason and Clarkson who bought land to avoid paying inheritance tax. HMRC figures suggest that once allowances are taken into account; a married couple £2 million,plus £650,000 joint allowances, plus £175,000 allowance if it's being passed on to children/grandchildren amounts to £3 million payable at 20% (half normal rate) over ten years without interest accruing. I think the more important things to protest about are the broken promises of a disastrous Brexit, the failure to fully replace the EU farming subsidy, the removal of freedom of movement as many farms depended on seasonal workers from abroad, increased red tape for exporting goods and food, the pathetic trade deals with NZ and Australia which do nothing for British farmers. The post-Brexit farming payment scheme aimed at encouraging good environmental practices, has had the effect of making it more profitable to take fields out of food production and turn them into wildflower meadows or fill them with trees. Brexit has done little for British farmers except increasing costs, red tape, barriers and low quality competitors. The government should be doing more to support farmers by addressing those issues.”

Both of those posts strike me as insightful, and have the ring of truth about them, IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 07:39 AM

Did anyone see Clarkson trying to bully Victoria Derbyshire on the news yesterday? I used to think he was a bit of a knob but quite funny with it. Now I see he is just an obnoxious shit.

I am still unsure about the ins and outs of the inheritance tax on farms as we have the government saying it will only affect the 500 richest farm owners and farmers saying it will affect far more. I was giving farmers the benefit of the doubt until I saw his odious bullying tactics on the news. He is doing all the honest, hardworking farmers a great disservice.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 03:31 AM

Read a good one this morning, a comment on the farmers’ demo and Parliament yesterday - “It must be fancy dress season in the House of Commons, I’ve never seen so many MPs dressed as farmers”.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 12:05 PM

Once again, one of Putin's poodles has threatened our obliteration. Still when the non-victors on both sides are combing the ashes, then will both be claiming a victory for their side. Sweden has already told its population to stock up on emergency rations s I guess it won't be long before shopper start behaving like mindless morons and start stripping the shop shelves bare with panic buying with the supermarkets failing to step up to ensure that their shelves remain fully stocked for those who don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 09:20 AM

Let's hope they get on the right train at Euston.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 09:13 AM

I would've thought lots of people would be getting the train home for Christmas.
As for that undocumented migrant Paddington, say no more!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 07:44 AM

Has it gone to Peru? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 07:09 AM

Paddington closed over Christmas for important works.

The train companies have already planned for this. They have also recently tested (at weekends) trains from Euston to South Wales / South West. So the temporary closure of Paddington should not be a major problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 03:23 AM

Why do you find this surprising? There are fewer passengers at Christmas and by shutting them completely they get the work done sooner, with less economic disruption.

Have you seen pictures of Belfast's new Grand Central Station BTW? Unlike in London they had plenty of space to rebuild it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 02:47 AM

The UK's two busiest train stations will be closed over Christmas. Sweet suffering mother of the divine Jesus.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 02:21 PM

At my advanced age but deep immaturity I have finally learned that the best way to deal with someone trailing their coat for a row is
a) ignore the coat-trailing, and
b) change the subject.
So (ahem) I've just seen Small Things Like These and found it superb. It's a film version of Claire Keegan's novella about a Magdalen Laundry. Blew me away. Superb acting from all, wonderful filming of New Ross in atmospheric rain and snow, a deep quality of silence from Cillian Murphy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 07:54 AM

Neither arguing nor being disingenuous, BWM. Just failing to understand your comment about ugly bickering and you failing to justify it. I am in full agreement that it did seem to dominate this thread and many others a long time ago but you seem to be getting wound up about something that I have either said nor done more recently. Feel free to keep whatever it is to yourself and I am happy to leave it as one of life's little mysteries.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 05:50 AM

And 900…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 05:49 AM

What don’t you understand about “Stop being disingenuous Dave”. The only person pushing to have an argument and spoiling the peace here is you. Now FFS drop it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 05:45 AM

When did trying to find out what is wrong become ugly bickering? You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about something and I cannot see anything in this current thread that will have brought that on. If you do not wish to say what it is, fine. But don't then suggest that ugly bickering dominates a thread that, in my opinion, has been generally good natured and expect me to agree with you. Nothing ugly. No bickering. Just a difference of opinion. If that winds you up, maybe you should drop it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 04:35 AM

Well Dave, you seem to be trying to provoke a bout of ugly bickering by doing your level best to wind me up right now. Sorry mate, you’re on your own. Drop it, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 03:38 AM

I'm not, BWM. I have gone back through a lot of this thread and can honestly say that I cannot see that "ugly bickering" is evident in what I saw, let alone dominant. In fact, if you look at the very first page, back in June 23, you will see a good natured exchange between Nigel and Steve that is the very opposite of ugly bickering.

I think that you may be going back to the days when there was plenty of activity by right wing trolls and lots of bad reactions to that by others. That does not seem to have happened in the last year and a half so I don't know why you mention it now. This is the only thread we are allowed on UK politics due to previous bad behaviour and, for some strange reason, I feel sort of responsible! If there has been any ugly bickering since June 23 maybe we can close this thread now but I see no real evidence of it.

If it was before June 23, just forget it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 02:28 AM

Stop being disingenuous Dave, it doesn’t become you.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 02:19 AM

Sweet living cheeses - UK cheese fails to win at an international exhibition when the samples don't clear customs in time.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 05:30 PM

Ah, OK. So, as I said, well before the current phase of the thread then.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 01:49 PM

I did say ‘used to’, Dave, and I have neither the will nor the desire to go trawling back through thousands of posts to find examples. But you and I may have different perceptions of what constitutes ‘ugly’. If so, that’s fine, I can live with that no problem

Meanwhile, let’s enjoy the peace and quiet for as long as it lasts… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 01:02 PM

I don't recall any particularly ugly bickering since some of the more extreme right wingers were booted years ago, BWM. I cannot see anything in the lifetime of this version but maybe I am missing something! Do you have anything in particular in mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 01:00 PM

So, BrexShit hasn’t worked in the UK’s interests?

Well who’da thunk it? (Clue: those of us who said it wouldn’t be in our interests, and had the sense to vote Remain).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 05:10 AM

I use ‘gobsmacked’ all the time, also ‘jaw-dropped’. Very common in my part of the Lincolnshire Backwoods.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DaveRo
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 05:06 AM

Gobsmacked is a great word - expressive, easily understood. Not at all ugly IMO. Originally from Yorkshire - maybe.
Gibsmacked Revisited

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 04:21 AM

Have to say I like gobsmacked, and adopted it, laughing, when I first heard it, maybe, hmm, 15 or 20 years ago. I was eating with friends when I first used it and my hostess looked at me and said, "What was that word?" and I used it again, illustrating it by bugging my eyes out in astonishment and smacking my hand over my mouth.
I also love the Irish gobshite, a perfect description of someone who is kind of lazily stupid, equivalent, perhaps, to liúdramán (pronounced, roughly, lyoodhramawn, with the emphasis on the first syllable).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 03:45 AM

”Wherever it is used, I wish it wasn't. I find it a particularly ugly word and I hate it ..... but that is a topic for the 'Language Pet Peeves' thread.

That’s true, Doug.

”What has this got to do with UK politics?”

Nothing at all, but it’s friendly, knockabout stuff that I, for one, find infinitely preferable to some of the ugly bickering that used to dominate ‘UK Politics’ threads. The atmosphere in recent times has smelled far nicer - long may it continue.