BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 03:31 AM

Read a good one this morning, a comment on the farmers’ demo and Parliament yesterday - “It must be fancy dress season in the House of Commons, I’ve never seen so many MPs dressed as farmers”.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 12:05 PM

Once again, one of Putin's poodles has threatened our obliteration. Still when the non-victors on both sides are combing the ashes, then will both be claiming a victory for their side. Sweden has already told its population to stock up on emergency rations s I guess it won't be long before shopper start behaving like mindless morons and start stripping the shop shelves bare with panic buying with the supermarkets failing to step up to ensure that their shelves remain fully stocked for those who don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 09:20 AM

Let's hope they get on the right train at Euston.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 09:13 AM

I would've thought lots of people would be getting the train home for Christmas.
As for that undocumented migrant Paddington, say no more!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 07:44 AM

Has it gone to Peru? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 07:09 AM

Paddington closed over Christmas for important works.

The train companies have already planned for this. They have also recently tested (at weekends) trains from Euston to South Wales / South West. So the temporary closure of Paddington should not be a major problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 03:23 AM

Why do you find this surprising? There are fewer passengers at Christmas and by shutting them completely they get the work done sooner, with less economic disruption.

Have you seen pictures of Belfast's new Grand Central Station BTW? Unlike in London they had plenty of space to rebuild it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 02:47 AM

The UK's two busiest train stations will be closed over Christmas. Sweet suffering mother of the divine Jesus.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 02:21 PM

At my advanced age but deep immaturity I have finally learned that the best way to deal with someone trailing their coat for a row is
a) ignore the coat-trailing, and
b) change the subject.
So (ahem) I've just seen Small Things Like These and found it superb. It's a film version of Claire Keegan's novella about a Magdalen Laundry. Blew me away. Superb acting from all, wonderful filming of New Ross in atmospheric rain and snow, a deep quality of silence from Cillian Murphy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 07:54 AM

Neither arguing nor being disingenuous, BWM. Just failing to understand your comment about ugly bickering and you failing to justify it. I am in full agreement that it did seem to dominate this thread and many others a long time ago but you seem to be getting wound up about something that I have either said nor done more recently. Feel free to keep whatever it is to yourself and I am happy to leave it as one of life's little mysteries.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 05:50 AM

And 900…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 05:49 AM

What don’t you understand about “Stop being disingenuous Dave”. The only person pushing to have an argument and spoiling the peace here is you. Now FFS drop it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 05:45 AM

When did trying to find out what is wrong become ugly bickering? You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about something and I cannot see anything in this current thread that will have brought that on. If you do not wish to say what it is, fine. But don't then suggest that ugly bickering dominates a thread that, in my opinion, has been generally good natured and expect me to agree with you. Nothing ugly. No bickering. Just a difference of opinion. If that winds you up, maybe you should drop it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 04:35 AM

Well Dave, you seem to be trying to provoke a bout of ugly bickering by doing your level best to wind me up right now. Sorry mate, you’re on your own. Drop it, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 03:38 AM

I'm not, BWM. I have gone back through a lot of this thread and can honestly say that I cannot see that "ugly bickering" is evident in what I saw, let alone dominant. In fact, if you look at the very first page, back in June 23, you will see a good natured exchange between Nigel and Steve that is the very opposite of ugly bickering.

I think that you may be going back to the days when there was plenty of activity by right wing trolls and lots of bad reactions to that by others. That does not seem to have happened in the last year and a half so I don't know why you mention it now. This is the only thread we are allowed on UK politics due to previous bad behaviour and, for some strange reason, I feel sort of responsible! If there has been any ugly bickering since June 23 maybe we can close this thread now but I see no real evidence of it.

If it was before June 23, just forget it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 02:28 AM

Stop being disingenuous Dave, it doesn’t become you.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 02:19 AM

Sweet living cheeses - UK cheese fails to win at an international exhibition when the samples don't clear customs in time.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 05:30 PM

Ah, OK. So, as I said, well before the current phase of the thread then.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 01:49 PM

I did say ‘used to’, Dave, and I have neither the will nor the desire to go trawling back through thousands of posts to find examples. But you and I may have different perceptions of what constitutes ‘ugly’. If so, that’s fine, I can live with that no problem

Meanwhile, let’s enjoy the peace and quiet for as long as it lasts… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 01:02 PM

I don't recall any particularly ugly bickering since some of the more extreme right wingers were booted years ago, BWM. I cannot see anything in the lifetime of this version but maybe I am missing something! Do you have anything in particular in mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 01:00 PM

So, BrexShit hasn’t worked in the UK’s interests?

Well who’da thunk it? (Clue: those of us who said it wouldn’t be in our interests, and had the sense to vote Remain).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 05:10 AM

I use ‘gobsmacked’ all the time, also ‘jaw-dropped’. Very common in my part of the Lincolnshire Backwoods.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DaveRo
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 05:06 AM

Gobsmacked is a great word - expressive, easily understood. Not at all ugly IMO. Originally from Yorkshire - maybe.
Gibsmacked Revisited

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 04:21 AM

Have to say I like gobsmacked, and adopted it, laughing, when I first heard it, maybe, hmm, 15 or 20 years ago. I was eating with friends when I first used it and my hostess looked at me and said, "What was that word?" and I used it again, illustrating it by bugging my eyes out in astonishment and smacking my hand over my mouth.
I also love the Irish gobshite, a perfect description of someone who is kind of lazily stupid, equivalent, perhaps, to liúdramán (pronounced, roughly, lyoodhramawn, with the emphasis on the first syllable).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 03:45 AM

”Wherever it is used, I wish it wasn't. I find it a particularly ugly word and I hate it ..... but that is a topic for the 'Language Pet Peeves' thread.

That’s true, Doug.

”What has this got to do with UK politics?”

Nothing at all, but it’s friendly, knockabout stuff that I, for one, find infinitely preferable to some of the ugly bickering that used to dominate ‘UK Politics’ threads. The atmosphere in recent times has smelled far nicer - long may it continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DaveRo
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 02:41 AM

Doug Chadwick wrote: Gobsmacked is also used in .....
What has this got to do with UK politics?

It's one of Britain's major exports:
Gobsmacked! The British Invasion of American English.

There's a review in the Economist (probably firewalled but I'm sure you all subscribe):
Americans are chuffed as chips at British English

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 01:10 AM

Nigel Parsons, the link I posted is to a documentary film using original footage from World War I, with sound overlaid, including dialogue produced by using lip-readers to identify what the people in it were saying. It's called They Shall Not Grow Old.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 08:26 PM

Thompson:
Ooops, copied the wrong bit.

They shall not grow old

Please note that the actual quote is:

"They shall grow not old,
As we that are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them,
Nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun,
and in the morning,
We will remember them."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 07:40 PM

Gobsmacked is also used in .....

Wherever it is used, I wish it wasn't. I find it a particularly ugly word and I hate it ..... but that is a topic for the 'Language Pet Peeves' thread.

What has this got to do with UK politics?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 07:01 PM

It works here in Texas also.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 05:43 PM

Gobsmacked is also used in Lancashire and Yorkshire

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 12:30 PM

Ooops, copied the wrong bit.

They shall not grow old

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 12:28 PM

https://odysee.com/@Scottishcraig79:8/They-Shall-Not-Grow-Old:0

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 11:28 AM

It’s used by Backwoods men, and the Backwoods are nowhere near Essex.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 10:43 AM

gobsmacked is a word used by Essex man

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 04:30 PM

another aside: A WORD now being used throughout the US news
is very BRITISH.

It is gobsmacked.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 04:27 PM

Minor aside on Starmer et al not being sufficiently sharp after the election: My opinion is that they didn't have a credible government front bench to strop themselves against while in opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 02:14 PM

One of the few positives to come out of Trump becoming President may well be that the UK builds a closer relationship with the EU and begins to reverse some of the damage brought down on us by the lunacy of Brexit…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 01:28 PM

This is speculation, but one possible result of a USA UK trade war, is that the UK is forced to negotiate trade deals with Europe

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 04:00 PM

I also meant to say that I’m sure we won’t agree, but that’s fine - we’ve disagreed before, and I’m happy to agree to disagree rather than fall out.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 08:50 AM

Should have also said…

Whether they will use that victory to our best advantage remains to be seen. The disaster of fourteen years of Tory mis-rule can’t be fixed in a few weeks or months. It’ll take a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 08:36 AM

On the ‘US Election’ thread, Big Al wrote…

”However our own record in voting for loonies is not exactly blameless. There was Thatcher who finished off 28% of manufacturing in one year. Then there was Cameron who walked out because the Brexit vote upset him. And I'm not over the moon with Keir Starmer.
I think the trouble resides in the fact that we have a media who misinform us. Trump's victory and Starmers have in common the fact that the overwhelming nature of thevictories seemed to creep up on them by surprise.
This to me, argues that they don't really know whats going at ground level.”

Well, I agree with your first sentence (although I disagree with your use of ‘our’ - I’ve never voted Conservative in my life) and, whilst I’m not over the moon with Starmer either, I do believe he’s a better bet than the Tory alternative(s).

You’re dead right about Thatcher, and you’re partially right about Cameron, except that he didn’t walk out because the Brexit vote ‘upset him’, he walked because he realised that the Referendum question had been badly worded, and also what an utter disaster his mistaken decision to break with tradition and allow the Referendum to depend on a ‘simple majority’had dumped the UK into whereas, if he’d worded the Referendum more carefully and stuck with the traditional requirement for a ‘Super-majority’ of 60-40, the ‘Remain’ vote would have won easily. He knew he’d fucked-up badly, and that leaving the EU was going to turn out exactly the way it has - a total balls-up, with the likes of you and me paying the bill for the rest of our lives, while the toffs made, and continue to make, an enormous killing.

You’re also right about misinformation, but our media had Labour leading by 20 percentage points for months, so I can’t agree that Starmer’s and Labour’s victory ‘crept up on them’ - they were fully aware that victory was coming.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 02:47 PM

"Very interesting view of how the war to end all wars happened."

I have not read the Harris novel. I did read an interesting review in Literary Review of

Disputing Disaster:A Sextet on the Great War by Perry Anderson

It is on my to read list.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 11:14 AM

Good un init :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 11:05 AM

Extraordinary, Davethe. What a song.
I've been reading Precipice by Robert Harris, a novel centred on the letters of Venetia Stanley to the prime minister of the pre-WWI and early WWI days, HH Asquith, which have been preserved, though his replies have not. Very interesting view of how the war to end all wars happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 10:19 AM

Mike Harding's excellent Christmas 1914

Best remembrance I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 05:01 PM

Excellent!

In The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club [set in 1921] by Dorothy L Sayers, Lord Peter Wimsey is able to date the murder of Gen Fentiman to 10 November and not, as first thought, Armistice Day, as the general was not wearing a poppy, which, of course, he would have been on 11 November.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DaveRo
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 03:44 PM

Some thoughtful responses today to the Guardian piece on “Has poppy mania gone too far?” My favourite:

I used to wear a white poppy for peace – alongside a red poppy, so that I didn’t get assaulted for wearing the white one!

Poppy mania and the endless fight for peace

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 12:38 PM

I can't stand any of those noble war poems. And I've heard former soldiers bitterly mocking them.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 11:17 AM

Christmas: 1924
by Thomas Hardy
" Peace upon earth!" was said. We sing it,
And pay a million priests to bring it.
After two thousand years of mass
We've got as far as poison-gas.