Tech: HDMI stuff

Subject: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 04:15 AM

Our TV, an LG, has 3 x HDMI inputs and one of them is also ARC which I have connected to a sound bar. The ports have been playing up recently and although I have got round the issues I am intrigued by what has caused them.

Our Bluray player, another LG, stopped working altogether with this TV although it works fine with others. I got round that by downloading my Blurays, and some other stuff, to a media server (Plex on Linux) which is now plugged in to HDMI 1, where the Bluray was. The sound bar is still plugged in to HDMI 2 / ARC and works fine although it does take a few seconds for it to wake up. I use HDMI 3 for a Facebook Portal but whenever I plug it in, it knocks out the HDMI 2 / ARC output. Again, there is a workround. I just don't plug it in unless I am using it. Zoom and WhatsApp meetings don't need the soundbar anyway :-)

It is, so it seems, a known issue on LG TVs and they suggest replacing the HDMI circuitry. Which I am not going to do. Anyone else experience anything like this or have any idea why it should happen?

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: DaveRo
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 06:43 AM

I'm on my second LG TV and have become wearily familiar with their hdmi antics. In my case it's compounded by three HUMAX boxes of different ages, two of which share the same remote IR 'channel' (which can't be changed). So switching one on switches the other on - or off. The TVs autosense then changes the input to the box I don't want on.

With my old (pre-smart) TV one of those boxes gave HDCP errors which I suspected was due to incompatibility between the TV and the box's hdmi versions. Maybe that's the problem with your bluray player - that will certainly involve HDCP.

I bought an hdmi ARC extractor to get the audio into an audio amp, but failed completely. Whether that's the TV or the ARC extractor I don't know. ARC seems to be aimed at soundbars - I don't have one - and nothing else.

Basically I think it's just badly implemented - whether that's the hardware or microcode I don't know - I suspect the latter the case of my WebOS TV.

I tried to get a TV with 4 or more hdmi sockets, but there are none. It needs an 'hdmi port replicator' like laptops have.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 07:27 AM

The Bluray player was working fine with that TV until it just stopped! I had a 5 port HDMI switch that may have helped, Dave, but I just gave it to my daughters!

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: DaveRo
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 09:01 AM

Did it ever work plugged directly into the TV? A switch might have changed the HDCP response to the blu-ray such that it was willing to send a signal.

HDCP is notoriously fickle.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 10:09 AM

Yes the player worked fine for ages then all of a sudden - No picture. No signal. No nowt. Worked OK on a Sony TV and now works fine on my daughters old LG. I will check out the switch though now you have said there may be an issue. I never used the switch on the new LG. It was for an older Finlux TV that I had before that only had one HDMI port.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 12:51 PM

This site has popup crap but it does have an answer:

To understand how HDCP could affect you, it's important to learn about the underlying concept. Machines like cable boxes and Blu-ray disc players scramble video before they send it to your television set. Before it can descramble and display a signal, the TV must exchange codes with the other device. This process stops you from recording video as you watch a copyrighted program. To view a protected digital show or motion picture, all of your equipment must comply with HDCP. This requirement goes beyond movie players and TVs. A complex home theater system won't support HDCP when you use a non-compliant splitter, tuner, wireless transmitter, repeater or audio-video receiver. If you want to enjoy a high-resolution video, you may need to replace older devices. Keep in mind that HDCP only becomes an issue when you watch programs from companies that use this kind of protection. Disney, Warner Brothers, and Sony normally incorporate it into every show they produce. If you don't own the right equipment, you could end up with an error message or blank screen when you try to view this content. Blu-ray discs, DVDs, pay-per-view events and satellite or cable channels may feature protected material.

Playing Movies
This copy protection system might block access to films if you have an entirely digital entertainment system but some components lack HDCP compliance. For example, perhaps you attached a high-definition TV to your Blu-ray disc player with a DVI or HDMI cable. The player won't let you view a protected movie if you have an early HDTV that doesn't support this technology. You'll need to replace the digital cable with component video cords. If the only problem is a non-compliant cable, you can solve it by purchasing an HDCP-certified DVI or HDMI wire.

My viewing is pretty basic so I haven't come across this problem - or at least, I haven't had problems that couldn't be solved by changing devices, usually upgrading.

That said, I am not surprised. It is a long time since I have tried to record or rip my own copies of films or programs, though I have a robust file of previously recorded stuff that streams ok around the house. I used to fight the battle of getting past the security settings even when I owned a film and simply wanted to convert for my various devices. Most of the software that lets you get past the security stuff is illegal in the US. (Of course it is! Sony and others see to that.)

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 12:54 PM

Sony points out that "HDCP is currently not a standard used in computer monitors."

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 09:13 PM

Did I kill the conversation?

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 12:18 PM

Nope, SRS .... computing trade expressions include interchangeable parts aren't (a subset of the Ancient and Immutable Law of Sodde) and treacherously similar (for user-interface designs). At least the connector conspiracy (where the parts won't even fit together) is marginally less dishonest than situations where plug-compatible parts have subtle but fatal protocol incompatibilities, as appears to be the case here.

.... Just looked at the Wikipedia page for HDMI: the lead paragraph includes the red-flag keyword "proprietary". Oh what a giveaway.

*NOW* the conversation has been killed.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 01:43 PM

The HDMI switch works fine at my daughters. 1 output connected to the single HDMI port of the old LG tv. Firestick, DVD player and Chrome cast connected to inputs 1, 2 and 3. Switches at the press of a button.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: DaveRo
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 04:44 PM

What a n:1 switch should do is pass the HDCP of the selected input to the output. I've read that some do that, but some 'remove' it. They do that by acting as if they were an HD display - spoofing the signature of a registered device. (This is 'illegal'.)

An HD source, such as a blue-ray player, just wants to know that the device on the other end is not capable of recording - i.e. it's a display. Then it will send HD. If not it should send SD. (Can you specify that your blu-ray sends an SD picture?)

With such a switch you can send an HD signal to a recorder. Or to a non-HDCP compliant TV.

This is all stuff I read while trying to solve the DHCP errors with my Sat box. Which isn't even HD. The new LG TV hasn't had a problem with it - so far. But a 'smart' TV can screw it up OTA.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Sep 23 - 09:34 AM

Quick update. I moved some kit around today which resulted in me connecting a display port to one of the TV's HDMI ports. That screws things up as well so I reverted to HDMI to HDMI and that fixed it.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 23 - 11:22 AM

I helped a friend order a new Dell that we set up and got running a couple of weeks ago. The process started with moving out a lot of long-dead equipment (two - count them! two old towers AND an old monster CRT monitor tucked back into the kneehole of his desk and hutch!). Paper towels and windex and get the area cleared before setting up new. He thought he could use his old monitor (I think it was DVI) but it was really really old and wouldn't have connected to the new CPU, and it takes about 10 seconds to look at the new beautiful 27" monitor after the 21" square one and he was hooked. I'd been over a couple of times to fix things on the old computer (a Frankenstein setup that a friend and he shopped at the old and much lamented Fry's Electronics and built ages ago) and after restoring the LAN after the ethernet port died and working on the sound after the sound card died, had suggested that there weren't many more things I'd be able to fix with USB adapters.

HDMI was my plan for setting up the monitor, but it also came with a Display Port. Monitor connectors. Neither of us does the kind of computer work that demands the super high bandwidth.

I moved some computer stuff yesterday here and did a little cable management while I was at it. (And I see from here that my flatbed scanner still needs to be replugged.) My reorganization involved a vacuum cleaner at one point. ;-)

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Sep 23 - 04:11 PM

I had an old laptop on the shelf under the TV and a mini desktop on the desk upstairs. Which didn't make sense on reflection. So I swapped the laptop disk (Linux Mint) with the disk in the mini (Windoze 10) and they both booted up fine. Surprisingly! So the mini now runs Linux, Plex and Kodi, connected to the TV with HDMI and the laptop runs windows for the grandsons :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 23 - 06:14 PM

Good save for that equipment!

Subject: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 04:15 AM

Our TV, an LG, has 3 x HDMI inputs and one of them is also ARC which I have connected to a sound bar. The ports have been playing up recently and although I have got round the issues I am intrigued by what has caused them.

Our Bluray player, another LG, stopped working altogether with this TV although it works fine with others. I got round that by downloading my Blurays, and some other stuff, to a media server (Plex on Linux) which is now plugged in to HDMI 1, where the Bluray was. The sound bar is still plugged in to HDMI 2 / ARC and works fine although it does take a few seconds for it to wake up. I use HDMI 3 for a Facebook Portal but whenever I plug it in, it knocks out the HDMI 2 / ARC output. Again, there is a workround. I just don't plug it in unless I am using it. Zoom and WhatsApp meetings don't need the soundbar anyway :-)

It is, so it seems, a known issue on LG TVs and they suggest replacing the HDMI circuitry. Which I am not going to do. Anyone else experience anything like this or have any idea why it should happen?

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 07:27 AM

The Bluray player was working fine with that TV until it just stopped! I had a 5 port HDMI switch that may have helped, Dave, but I just gave it to my daughters!

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 10:09 AM

Yes the player worked fine for ages then all of a sudden - No picture. No signal. No nowt. Worked OK on a Sony TV and now works fine on my daughters old LG. I will check out the switch though now you have said there may be an issue. I never used the switch on the new LG. It was for an older Finlux TV that I had before that only had one HDMI port.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 01:43 PM

The HDMI switch works fine at my daughters. 1 output connected to the single HDMI port of the old LG tv. Firestick, DVD player and Chrome cast connected to inputs 1, 2 and 3. Switches at the press of a button.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Sep 23 - 09:34 AM

Quick update. I moved some kit around today which resulted in me connecting a display port to one of the TV's HDMI ports. That screws things up as well so I reverted to HDMI to HDMI and that fixed it.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Sep 23 - 04:11 PM

I had an old laptop on the shelf under the TV and a mini desktop on the desk upstairs. Which didn't make sense on reflection. So I swapped the laptop disk (Linux Mint) with the disk in the mini (Windoze 10) and they both booted up fine. Surprisingly! So the mini now runs Linux, Plex and Kodi, connected to the TV with HDMI and the laptop runs windows for the grandsons :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 12:51 PM

This site has popup crap but it does have an answer:

To understand how HDCP could affect you, it's important to learn about the underlying concept. Machines like cable boxes and Blu-ray disc players scramble video before they send it to your television set. Before it can descramble and display a signal, the TV must exchange codes with the other device. This process stops you from recording video as you watch a copyrighted program. To view a protected digital show or motion picture, all of your equipment must comply with HDCP. This requirement goes beyond movie players and TVs. A complex home theater system won't support HDCP when you use a non-compliant splitter, tuner, wireless transmitter, repeater or audio-video receiver. If you want to enjoy a high-resolution video, you may need to replace older devices. Keep in mind that HDCP only becomes an issue when you watch programs from companies that use this kind of protection. Disney, Warner Brothers, and Sony normally incorporate it into every show they produce. If you don't own the right equipment, you could end up with an error message or blank screen when you try to view this content. Blu-ray discs, DVDs, pay-per-view events and satellite or cable channels may feature protected material.

Playing Movies
This copy protection system might block access to films if you have an entirely digital entertainment system but some components lack HDCP compliance. For example, perhaps you attached a high-definition TV to your Blu-ray disc player with a DVI or HDMI cable. The player won't let you view a protected movie if you have an early HDTV that doesn't support this technology. You'll need to replace the digital cable with component video cords. If the only problem is a non-compliant cable, you can solve it by purchasing an HDCP-certified DVI or HDMI wire.

My viewing is pretty basic so I haven't come across this problem - or at least, I haven't had problems that couldn't be solved by changing devices, usually upgrading.

That said, I am not surprised. It is a long time since I have tried to record or rip my own copies of films or programs, though I have a robust file of previously recorded stuff that streams ok around the house. I used to fight the battle of getting past the security settings even when I owned a film and simply wanted to convert for my various devices. Most of the software that lets you get past the security stuff is illegal in the US. (Of course it is! Sony and others see to that.)

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 12:54 PM

Sony points out that "HDCP is currently not a standard used in computer monitors."

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 09:13 PM

Did I kill the conversation?

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 23 - 11:22 AM

I helped a friend order a new Dell that we set up and got running a couple of weeks ago. The process started with moving out a lot of long-dead equipment (two - count them! two old towers AND an old monster CRT monitor tucked back into the kneehole of his desk and hutch!). Paper towels and windex and get the area cleared before setting up new. He thought he could use his old monitor (I think it was DVI) but it was really really old and wouldn't have connected to the new CPU, and it takes about 10 seconds to look at the new beautiful 27" monitor after the 21" square one and he was hooked. I'd been over a couple of times to fix things on the old computer (a Frankenstein setup that a friend and he shopped at the old and much lamented Fry's Electronics and built ages ago) and after restoring the LAN after the ethernet port died and working on the sound after the sound card died, had suggested that there weren't many more things I'd be able to fix with USB adapters.

HDMI was my plan for setting up the monitor, but it also came with a Display Port. Monitor connectors. Neither of us does the kind of computer work that demands the super high bandwidth.

I moved some computer stuff yesterday here and did a little cable management while I was at it. (And I see from here that my flatbed scanner still needs to be replugged.) My reorganization involved a vacuum cleaner at one point. ;-)

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 23 - 06:14 PM

Good save for that equipment!

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: DaveRo
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 06:43 AM

I'm on my second LG TV and have become wearily familiar with their hdmi antics. In my case it's compounded by three HUMAX boxes of different ages, two of which share the same remote IR 'channel' (which can't be changed). So switching one on switches the other on - or off. The TVs autosense then changes the input to the box I don't want on.

With my old (pre-smart) TV one of those boxes gave HDCP errors which I suspected was due to incompatibility between the TV and the box's hdmi versions. Maybe that's the problem with your bluray player - that will certainly involve HDCP.

I bought an hdmi ARC extractor to get the audio into an audio amp, but failed completely. Whether that's the TV or the ARC extractor I don't know. ARC seems to be aimed at soundbars - I don't have one - and nothing else.

Basically I think it's just badly implemented - whether that's the hardware or microcode I don't know - I suspect the latter the case of my WebOS TV.

I tried to get a TV with 4 or more hdmi sockets, but there are none. It needs an 'hdmi port replicator' like laptops have.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: DaveRo
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 09:01 AM

Did it ever work plugged directly into the TV? A switch might have changed the HDCP response to the blu-ray such that it was willing to send a signal.

HDCP is notoriously fickle.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: DaveRo
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 04:44 PM

What a n:1 switch should do is pass the HDCP of the selected input to the output. I've read that some do that, but some 'remove' it. They do that by acting as if they were an HD display - spoofing the signature of a registered device. (This is 'illegal'.)

An HD source, such as a blue-ray player, just wants to know that the device on the other end is not capable of recording - i.e. it's a display. Then it will send HD. If not it should send SD. (Can you specify that your blu-ray sends an SD picture?)

With such a switch you can send an HD signal to a recorder. Or to a non-HDCP compliant TV.

This is all stuff I read while trying to solve the DHCP errors with my Sat box. Which isn't even HD. The new LG TV hasn't had a problem with it - so far. But a 'smart' TV can screw it up OTA.

Subject: RE: Tech: HDMI stuff
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 12:18 PM

Nope, SRS .... computing trade expressions include interchangeable parts aren't (a subset of the Ancient and Immutable Law of Sodde) and treacherously similar (for user-interface designs). At least the connector conspiracy (where the parts won't even fit together) is marginally less dishonest than situations where plug-compatible parts have subtle but fatal protocol incompatibilities, as appears to be the case here.

.... Just looked at the Wikipedia page for HDMI: the lead paragraph includes the red-flag keyword "proprietary". Oh what a giveaway.

*NOW* the conversation has been killed.