Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 12 Sep 23 - 05:25 AM I admit to having the complementary problem: I can sing well, but Herself was intimidated by an alleged teacher at a formative age, and spent decades thinking she was tone deaf. I quickly amended that to "tone dumb"*, as she could hear and appreciate tunes, but couldn't reproduce them unless she was singing lullabies to the children. Much careful and non-judgemental work later, she can sing in front of grownups, modulo the occasional panic attack. Keep at it, BlackAcornUK, and practice at full pelt. * A term I first heard from Pete Atkin, describing Clive James. He may or may not have been joking when he added: He can't even tap his foot to a Tamla Motown record. |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: FreddyHeadey Date: 10 Sep 23 - 04:54 AM OK, I admit I've never tried a pitch pipe. I bought a children's harmonica. I've noticed people with pitch pipes having to put their specs on, get the right angle against the light, twist something, blow, stare intently again to confirm it was the right note,,, I find it handy to be able to find the notes without having to look(mostly) & sometimes play the first two or three notes, not just one. It's robust and light and big enough not to lose easily. Downside - sometimes people are expecting me to play something on it ;) - it's just eight notes; no sharps or flats so sometimes I need to play the note(s) then shift half a tone. like https://www.thomann.de/gb/hohner_speedy.htm |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: Stanron Date: 10 Sep 23 - 08:50 AM I bought a set of pitch pipes once so that I could practice singing whilst driving my campervan. As a guitarist I knew which key I wanted to sing in so it was all straightforward. If you don't have any playing skills it will be hard to work out keys for yourself and it seems to me that pitch pipes are not the best tool for the job. A small keyboard at home would help you discover what I call the working range of your voice. From the highest note you can comfortably sing to the note below which all volume is lost. Then, song by song, you find the highest and lowest notes. From that you work out which key matches the range of the song to the range of your voice. Note that down and at your next session ask someone to give you the right note to start. A whistle is small enough to carry in an inside pocket. Find your starting note on that and you won't have to ask someone else for a note. |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: G-Force Date: 10 Sep 23 - 09:25 AM Know your song. Some songs have a narrow range, so the precise pitch is not too important. Other songs have a much wider range so it's important to get it about right. Example: 'Shenandoah' has quite a wide range, but the first note is the lowest note, so start low! Frankly, I can't be bothered with pitch pipes. |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: Backwoodsman Date: 10 Sep 23 - 04:57 AM ”An additional challenge is that at home, when 'rehearsing', I sing at lower volumes - but in clubs, with adrenaline + the fact that I tend to go for big chorus songs that draw others in, I tend to belt it out at a fair whack, and so my voice behaves differently.” That’s a common problem, I’ve lost count of singers who get part-way into a song then realise that the key is too low for them to be able to project effectively, and have to stop and re-start in a higher key. Their usual comment is, “It was fine at home”. Always rehearse at the volume you intend to perform at - if you have the key too low it will quickly become obvious and you can get it sorted at home and in private and avoid embarrassment in front of an audience. The usual disclaimer applies - IMHO, YMMV. |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Sep 23 - 02:38 AM Do people ever play tunes on pitch pipes? I've always heard people play only single notes, but why not play at tune? |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 11 Sep 23 - 03:49 AM Backwoodsman's advice to rehearse at the volume I intend to sing at seems very pertinent, as I think additional volume threw me off (alongside a chaotically loud environment in the bar adjacent to where we were singing)... my partner and neighbours may have other preferences, though... Likewise G-force's exhortation to 'know your song', as - in cavalier fashion - I was trying new items... |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 11 Sep 23 - 03:45 AM Hi all, thanks again - a quick, frustrating update (!) - From an hour or so's experimentation at home, I was reasonably able to both identify passably optimal pitches for songs I intended to sing; and to replicate those notes after a toot on a pitch pipe. However, when test-driving at one of my local singarounds last night, those early foundations crumbled to dust, and - under the sympathetic scrutiny of those gathered - I lost the ability to match the notes... Turns out (which should have been obvious) that using a pitch-pipe probably isn't a quick fix, but a supplementary skill to be mastered in its own right... |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 10 Sep 23 - 05:53 AM Many thanks all, this is *very* useful - Gargoyle, the muted.io voice tuner is great! Just from initial testing against that, I think my ideal pitch pipe would be F2 to F3 - are those available? Can anyone recommend where from? |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,Dave Hanson Date: 10 Sep 23 - 03:12 AM very limited range on a pitch pipe, but not impossible to get a tune out of. Dave H |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 09 Sep 23 - 05:45 PM It is good to see folk returning to social activities. You may have some fun with this ... just begin a natural note without a pitch for different songs ... see where you fall. https://muted.io/voice-tuner/ A pipe is helpful for more than one singer...especially for harmony. The entire orchestra tunes to first chair. HAVE FUN ! Sincerely, Gargoyle It is not good that the man should be alone...Gen 2:18 |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 09 Sep 23 - 07:14 AM PS - final post before I shut up and listen - this was my first session post COVID, at the Bridge in Newcastle - kindly coaxed into giving it a go by compere Mike Donnelly (a true gent) It's a good indication of the challenges that adrenaline/high output give me in keeping on track technically, though I also feel that my 'bellows power' is one of things that people really respond well to https://youtu.be/-bc9f5UpemY?si=VFI5TYU5X6dnm0zq |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 09 Sep 23 - 07:09 AM Background: I'm a relatively novice folk session singer - I started in late 2019 before being curtailed by the pandemic, and only resumed last autumn. I'm trying to get to sessions more regularly again, and have been boosted by encouraging feedback; However, I'm experiencing persistent challenges with finding the right key to begin with, even for very familiar songs that are 'core' to my compact but steadily growing repertoire. Variations seem greater when nervous, tired, even depending on what I'm drinking; An additional challenge is that at home, when 'rehearsing', I sing at lower volumes - but in clubs, with adrenaline + the fact that I tend to go for big chorus songs that draw others in, I tend to belt it out at a fair whack, and so my voice behaves differently. I have a standard C-C circular chromatic pipe, but I'm wondering - can they be acquired in lower ranges? I know it's possible to 'tune down', but again, with nerves etc, I'd be much more confident with a device that gives the 'true' note I want to sing. I know there are apps etc, but I prefer the aesthetic, texture and tactility of an acoustic device. |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 09 Sep 23 - 07:06 AM Supplementary questions - if you use pitch pipes, what approach do you take to identifying the starting note of a song? Do you 'test against' the pipe - sampling a verse against each ascending note, to find the most comfortable fit? Does anyone work the other way around - using an electronic tuner to identify the starting note when you've played around with a song, before 'replicating' this on a pipe? |
Subject: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 09 Sep 23 - 07:05 AM Hello all, I hope you're keeping well - I've not been hereabouts for a while. I'm seeking advice about how to get the most out of using pitch pipes; Do you use one yourself? I seldom attend a session where one appears. Did you experiment/shop around to find the one that fits your range? Are there recommended outlets (physical or online shops) that carry more than the usual 1-2 devices? |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 12 Sep 23 - 05:25 AM I admit to having the complementary problem: I can sing well, but Herself was intimidated by an alleged teacher at a formative age, and spent decades thinking she was tone deaf. I quickly amended that to "tone dumb"*, as she could hear and appreciate tunes, but couldn't reproduce them unless she was singing lullabies to the children. Much careful and non-judgemental work later, she can sing in front of grownups, modulo the occasional panic attack. Keep at it, BlackAcornUK, and practice at full pelt. * A term I first heard from Pete Atkin, describing Clive James. He may or may not have been joking when he added: He can't even tap his foot to a Tamla Motown record. |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 11 Sep 23 - 03:49 AM Backwoodsman's advice to rehearse at the volume I intend to sing at seems very pertinent, as I think additional volume threw me off (alongside a chaotically loud environment in the bar adjacent to where we were singing)... my partner and neighbours may have other preferences, though... Likewise G-force's exhortation to 'know your song', as - in cavalier fashion - I was trying new items... |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 11 Sep 23 - 03:45 AM Hi all, thanks again - a quick, frustrating update (!) - From an hour or so's experimentation at home, I was reasonably able to both identify passably optimal pitches for songs I intended to sing; and to replicate those notes after a toot on a pitch pipe. However, when test-driving at one of my local singarounds last night, those early foundations crumbled to dust, and - under the sympathetic scrutiny of those gathered - I lost the ability to match the notes... Turns out (which should have been obvious) that using a pitch-pipe probably isn't a quick fix, but a supplementary skill to be mastered in its own right... |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: G-Force Date: 10 Sep 23 - 09:25 AM Know your song. Some songs have a narrow range, so the precise pitch is not too important. Other songs have a much wider range so it's important to get it about right. Example: 'Shenandoah' has quite a wide range, but the first note is the lowest note, so start low! Frankly, I can't be bothered with pitch pipes. |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: Stanron Date: 10 Sep 23 - 08:50 AM I bought a set of pitch pipes once so that I could practice singing whilst driving my campervan. As a guitarist I knew which key I wanted to sing in so it was all straightforward. If you don't have any playing skills it will be hard to work out keys for yourself and it seems to me that pitch pipes are not the best tool for the job. A small keyboard at home would help you discover what I call the working range of your voice. From the highest note you can comfortably sing to the note below which all volume is lost. Then, song by song, you find the highest and lowest notes. From that you work out which key matches the range of the song to the range of your voice. Note that down and at your next session ask someone to give you the right note to start. A whistle is small enough to carry in an inside pocket. Find your starting note on that and you won't have to ask someone else for a note. |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 10 Sep 23 - 05:53 AM Many thanks all, this is *very* useful - Gargoyle, the muted.io voice tuner is great! Just from initial testing against that, I think my ideal pitch pipe would be F2 to F3 - are those available? Can anyone recommend where from? |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: Backwoodsman Date: 10 Sep 23 - 04:57 AM ”An additional challenge is that at home, when 'rehearsing', I sing at lower volumes - but in clubs, with adrenaline + the fact that I tend to go for big chorus songs that draw others in, I tend to belt it out at a fair whack, and so my voice behaves differently.” That’s a common problem, I’ve lost count of singers who get part-way into a song then realise that the key is too low for them to be able to project effectively, and have to stop and re-start in a higher key. Their usual comment is, “It was fine at home”. Always rehearse at the volume you intend to perform at - if you have the key too low it will quickly become obvious and you can get it sorted at home and in private and avoid embarrassment in front of an audience. The usual disclaimer applies - IMHO, YMMV. |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: FreddyHeadey Date: 10 Sep 23 - 04:54 AM OK, I admit I've never tried a pitch pipe. I bought a children's harmonica. I've noticed people with pitch pipes having to put their specs on, get the right angle against the light, twist something, blow, stare intently again to confirm it was the right note,,, I find it handy to be able to find the notes without having to look(mostly) & sometimes play the first two or three notes, not just one. It's robust and light and big enough not to lose easily. Downside - sometimes people are expecting me to play something on it ;) - it's just eight notes; no sharps or flats so sometimes I need to play the note(s) then shift half a tone. like https://www.thomann.de/gb/hohner_speedy.htm |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,Dave Hanson Date: 10 Sep 23 - 03:12 AM very limited range on a pitch pipe, but not impossible to get a tune out of. Dave H |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Sep 23 - 02:38 AM Do people ever play tunes on pitch pipes? I've always heard people play only single notes, but why not play at tune? |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 09 Sep 23 - 05:45 PM It is good to see folk returning to social activities. You may have some fun with this ... just begin a natural note without a pitch for different songs ... see where you fall. https://muted.io/voice-tuner/ A pipe is helpful for more than one singer...especially for harmony. The entire orchestra tunes to first chair. HAVE FUN ! Sincerely, Gargoyle It is not good that the man should be alone...Gen 2:18 |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 09 Sep 23 - 07:14 AM PS - final post before I shut up and listen - this was my first session post COVID, at the Bridge in Newcastle - kindly coaxed into giving it a go by compere Mike Donnelly (a true gent) It's a good indication of the challenges that adrenaline/high output give me in keeping on track technically, though I also feel that my 'bellows power' is one of things that people really respond well to https://youtu.be/-bc9f5UpemY?si=VFI5TYU5X6dnm0zq |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 09 Sep 23 - 07:09 AM Background: I'm a relatively novice folk session singer - I started in late 2019 before being curtailed by the pandemic, and only resumed last autumn. I'm trying to get to sessions more regularly again, and have been boosted by encouraging feedback; However, I'm experiencing persistent challenges with finding the right key to begin with, even for very familiar songs that are 'core' to my compact but steadily growing repertoire. Variations seem greater when nervous, tired, even depending on what I'm drinking; An additional challenge is that at home, when 'rehearsing', I sing at lower volumes - but in clubs, with adrenaline + the fact that I tend to go for big chorus songs that draw others in, I tend to belt it out at a fair whack, and so my voice behaves differently. I have a standard C-C circular chromatic pipe, but I'm wondering - can they be acquired in lower ranges? I know it's possible to 'tune down', but again, with nerves etc, I'd be much more confident with a device that gives the 'true' note I want to sing. I know there are apps etc, but I prefer the aesthetic, texture and tactility of an acoustic device. |
Subject: RE: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 09 Sep 23 - 07:06 AM Supplementary questions - if you use pitch pipes, what approach do you take to identifying the starting note of a song? Do you 'test against' the pipe - sampling a verse against each ascending note, to find the most comfortable fit? Does anyone work the other way around - using an electronic tuner to identify the starting note when you've played around with a song, before 'replicating' this on a pipe? |
Subject: PITCH PIPES: which ones, best usage etc From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Date: 09 Sep 23 - 07:05 AM Hello all, I hope you're keeping well - I've not been hereabouts for a while. I'm seeking advice about how to get the most out of using pitch pipes; Do you use one yourself? I seldom attend a session where one appears. Did you experiment/shop around to find the one that fits your range? Are there recommended outlets (physical or online shops) that carry more than the usual 1-2 devices? |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |