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Scandinavian Folk Music sites

BDenz 20 Jan 00 - 08:30 PM
Malcolm Douglas 20 Jan 00 - 09:42 PM
Brendy 20 Jan 00 - 11:27 PM
AKS 21 Jan 00 - 05:23 AM
AKS 21 Jan 00 - 06:20 AM
Brendy 21 Jan 00 - 07:14 AM
BDenz 21 Jan 00 - 03:23 PM
Malcolm Douglas 22 Jan 00 - 10:23 PM
BDenz 23 Jan 00 - 03:11 PM
AKS 24 Jan 00 - 09:31 AM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Jan 00 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,Benjamin 24 Jan 00 - 02:35 PM
BDenz 24 Jan 00 - 02:44 PM
BDenz 24 Jan 00 - 09:36 PM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Jan 00 - 10:21 PM
GUEST,Benjamin 25 Jan 00 - 01:22 AM
AKS 25 Jan 00 - 10:12 AM
BDenz 25 Jan 00 - 01:46 PM
BDenz 26 Jan 00 - 02:34 PM
GUEST,emily rain @ u dub 26 Jan 00 - 03:50 PM
BDenz 27 Jan 00 - 01:55 PM
AKS 28 Jan 00 - 04:39 PM
BDenz 28 Jan 00 - 06:05 PM
BDenz 31 Jan 00 - 01:09 PM
BDenz 02 Feb 00 - 04:01 PM
open mike 19 Jun 10 - 07:02 PM
open mike 22 Jun 10 - 11:02 AM
open mike 24 Jun 10 - 03:48 PM
Jack Campin 06 Nov 15 - 03:06 PM
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Subject: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 08:30 PM

Anyone know a good place to find Scandinavian folk music lyrics? Actually, I already have two -- 1 that's Norwegian specific (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/ballader/lister/arkiv.html) and another that's Denmark, Sweden and Norway (http://www.lysator.liu.se/runeberg/folkevis/), but I'm looking for Finnish lyrics. Anyone have any ideas/tricks? Have tried the standard search engines and am not sure what else to try.

Thanks in advance.

Barb


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 09:42 PM

Not sure about lyrics as such, but you could start looking at Virtual Finland,    here . 

Do you actually understand Finnish?  I for one would love to know what Värttinä's   "Kylä Vuotti Uutta Kuuta"  really means...

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 11:27 PM

I don't understand Finnish, butThis might be of assistance
Brendy.


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: AKS
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 05:23 AM

Shame on me being Finnish and not to be able to give you any sites with Finnish lyrics right now, BDenz. I'll try to dig out some during the weekend for you and then come back, ok?

And Malcolm, I'll find the lyrics of

kylä = village
vuotti (dial./poet.) = waited
uutta ( kuuta (

of Värttinä = spindle

for you and try to translate into E.

reg's AKS, Joensuu, Finland


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: AKS
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 06:20 AM

Oopps, the line
uutta ( kuuta (
above should've been two lines like this:

uutta (obj. case of adj. uusi) = new
kuuta (obj. case of noun kuu) = moon, month

AKS


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: Brendy
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 07:14 AM

Dear AKS.
I have found that the 'Collossus' sites ( I listed the Finnish one, and there's one for almost every country in the world ) are normally very good. I'm sure if you plough your way thru it, I'm sure you'll find something
Kìtos ( Is that the right spelling?)
Non Finnish Brendy, who has played in Kuopio, Helsingfors, and passed through driving fron Kirkenes to Kautekeino!!!


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 03:23 PM

Malcolm -- the translation on the album is The Village Awaits the New Moon and one of the websites says it's a wedding song. And yeah, that's the one I'm after. And I've been to Virtual Finland. Cool site [I have it bookmarked as a favorite] but no lyrics.

AKS -- Cool! So we can get pronunciation help from you once you find us the lyrics? I know Swedish and have sung [in Sweden] with Finn-Swedes, but that's as close as I came to singing [or understanding] Finnish. But I want to.

Brendy -- started on those sites. All in Finnish. Makes my eyes cross. Hopefully AKS will have better luck. Thanks for the pointers!

Barb


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 10:23 PM

I've just discovered that I do have the lyrics for Kylä Vuotti Uutta Kuuta!  My copy of Seleniko is the American re-issue, and therefore a bit short on sleeve-notes, but I evidently photocopied the insert from the original recording (it's in the City library) at some point.  Here they are:

Kylä vuotti uutta kuuta
Miero päivän nousendoa
Miepä vuotin minjoavani
Miepä vuotin minjovani.

Nouse sorsa soutamasta
Nouse sorsa soutamasta
Nouse ilman nostamatta
Ylene ylenemättä.

Pole jalka portahilla
Toini poikkipuoliselta
Assu hanhen askelilla
Taputa tavin jaloilla.

Notkuta nuoret nisatki
Niin kuin tuores tuomenlatva
Tahi kasvaja kataja
Tahi kasvaja kataja.

Ken tämän toven valehtii
Ken tämän toven valehtii
Veijon tyhjän tullehikse
Veijon tyhjän tullehikse.

Eipä veijo tyhjin tullu
Eipä veijo tyhjin tullu
Eikä ratsu jouten juossu
Eikä ratsu jouten juossu.

Notkuta nuoret nisatki
niin kuin tuores tuomen latva
Tahi kasvaja kataja
Tahi kasvaja kataja.

Kylä vuotti uutta kuuta
Miero päivän nousendoa
Miepa vuotin minjoavani
Miepa vuotin minjovani...

Well, if AKS can shed light on all that, I'd be grateful.  It's one of those transcendent songs that makes your hair stand on end, even with only the very faintest idea of what it means...

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 23 Jan 00 - 03:11 PM

Cool!!! Thanks, Malcolm.

First thing I'm going to do is listen to it over and over with the words in hand to see if I can grasp Finnish pronunciation.

Then a translation would be nice.

I love this place ...

Barb


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: AKS
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 09:31 AM

Hello again, sori (that's Finnish for sorry) I was rather busy today, but this much I've achieved:

Amazes me but this is the only place I've found so far with lyrics: klik I'll try to find some more.

Värttinä's 'Kylä vuotti uutta kuuta' is in fact a fragment of what originally was part of the old Karelian wedding ceremony. It was sung by the bridegroom's sister(s) when the bride and her 'train' arrived to the bridegroom's house (most Karelian villages were located at lakes or rivers, thus the reference to rowing or to the birds of water).

In "Suomen kansan vanhat runot" (publ in 1919 I think, a huge collection of old Finnish runo songs in I-don't-even-remember-how-many books) there are some 80 versions of it from various villages of Viena (=Russian North Karelia) mostly collected in the 1800's, the longest ones containing more than 300 lines.

Kylä vuotti uutta kuuta The village awaited the new moon
miero päivän nousentoa the outside world for the day/sun to rise
miepä vuotin minjoani I waited for my daughter/sister-in-law

Nouse sorsa soutamasta Rise, duck, from rowing
nouse ilman nostamatta rise without lifting
ylene ylenemättä get up without rising

Pole jalka portahilla Tread your foot on the stairs
toini poikkipuolisella the other on the treshold
astu hanhen askelilla step with steps of goose
taputa tavin jaloilla tap with feet of teal

Notkuta nuoret nisatki Make your young neck bow
niin kuin tuores tuomen latva like the fresh crown of a chokecherry tree
tahi kasvaja kataja or a growing juniper

Ken tämän toen valehti Who told the false truth
veijon tyhjin tullahikse that my brother would come with nothing

Eipä veijo tyhjin tullu But my brother came not with nothing
eikä ratsu jouten juossu nor did the horse run for nothing

Here's some notes on Finnish ortography & pronunciation:

- Spelling is phonetic, one sound - one letter (oh yes there are some exceptions but not many).

- Opposition of long and short sounds is significant, so if you see a pair of similar letters beside eachother it's either a long vowel or a geminate consonant.

- No opposition of voiced-unvoiced stop consonants, so all t/p/k's can sound slightly voiced to a Germanic language speaking person.

- 16 vowels: a - ä, o - ö, u - y (should be ü, to make it symmetric), e - i, plus the long ones.

- one s-sound only, and the letter j stands for what in E. is normally marked with y, as in you.

- Word stress is fixed, the main stress is always on the first syllable and the secondary stress on the third (and fifth and so on if necessary), but the last syllable of the word is never stressed.

greets AKS

(if the formatting collapses I'll try again tomorrow)


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 02:16 PM

AKS:

Many thanks!

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: GUEST,Benjamin
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 02:35 PM

You can order Nordic music here

Also check out Virtual Samiland This site has some good information!. Alsothis site! has some great links to articles.

Enjoy!

BMW


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 02:44 PM

Rats. I posted a thanks, too, and it disappeared.

Thanks, AKS. What a wealth of info!

Barb


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 09:36 PM

Okay -- I found a discrepancy between what Malcolm posted and what AKS did and I don't know which is correct.

In the jacket lyrics, the line is "Miepä vuotin minjovani" or "Miepä vuotin minjoavani"

And in AKS summary it's "Miepä vuotin minjoani"

Ditto: Jacket: Toini poikkipuoliselta AKS: Toini poikkipuolisella

Ditto: Jacket: Ken tämän toven valehtii AKS: Ken tämän toen valehti

Just being careful. Thanks in advance.

Barb


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 10:21 PM

I suspect that "minjovani" and "minjoavani" may be different inflections, but would defer to AKS in the event of any confusion.  After all, AKS (he or she?) is a native speaker, and all I did was transcribe from notes I didn't understand!

Malcolm

PS: playing the song now, over and over.


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: GUEST,Benjamin
Date: 25 Jan 00 - 01:22 AM

I'm still a bit off subject here, but I just found two sites I wanted to include in my last post, but they were lost from my bookmarkes after a computer crash.

The Sámi Radio Site has some great links as well as news, etc.

This site contains some great information on Sámi music.

For those who are wondering, Sami (Lapps as a derogatory name) are the indiginous people in Northern Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, and Finland) as well as the Kola Pennensula (Russia). Today, they are a small minority in which most if not all of their languages (there were/are about nine) are either endangered or extinct.

AKS, Thanks for the Finish language lesson. I've spent some time trying to learn, but don't have anyone to practice with.


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: AKS
Date: 25 Jan 00 - 10:12 AM

Okei (that's Finnish for okay)class, today's lesson gives us the explanation on discrepancies Barb has found in a posting above:

1st: minjovani/minjoani from minja = daughter in law, son's wife, + (v)a = partitive case ending, + ni = possessive ending of 1st person singular.

When inflected, in Karelian, the final /a/ of a word gets labialized (rounded) to /o/, the partitive case marks the word as the object of the sentence. Whether /v/ is there or not is a matter of local dialect; no /v/ being more common.

The Finnish equivalent is miniä (miniä-ä-ni).

minjoAvani must be a typo.

2nd: poikkipuoliselta/poikkipuolisella = the one that is crosswise; here I think it's used for 'treshold'.

In Finnish there are three cases for expressing 'external' locality: adessive ending -lla (on sthng), allative -lle (onto sthng) and ablative -lta (from upon sthng). BUT in Karelian the first two have fallen together so there's only -lla left.

And since the bride - at this stage of the ceremony - is going into the house, she should step her feet onto the stairs first and then onto the treshold - not from upon. That's my interpretation, could be the other way 'round though, both forms being grammatically correct.

3rd: toven valehtii/toen valehti

Oorait (that's Finnish for allright): valehtia (inf) = to lie; -ii = present tense 3rd p. sgl, -i = past tense 3rd p. sgl. Both grammatically correct, still I'd choose past tense, because the sister already sees that her brother has his bride with him, so 'the lie' is valid no more. The girls sing it with long /ii/.

Now, this is a tricky one to explain in short (like the truth sometimes is): tosi = true (as opposed to false), truth.

In Finnish (and other closely related languages) there's a thing called the consonant gradation; stop consonant gets weakened (according to certain rules) if the following, originally open, syllable becomes closed when the word is inflected. The weakening has gone so far that in some cases (single k/t) it ends up with nothing.

Secondly Finnish words ending (once in the past) with /e/ have shifted to ending with /i/. This ending /i/ has, in turn, effected the preceding /t/ to become /s/.

So, this all put together, we get this seemingly absurd series of inflections: tosi, orig. *tote (nominative), toen (genitive), toella (adessive) etc.

Again, /v/ is a matter of local dialect, those with /v/ haven't gone reached the limits of weakening consonant, yet.

That's all confusion for today, I'll be back when (if?) I get the links!

Arto Kalevi Sallinen (male)


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 25 Jan 00 - 01:46 PM

Arto -- Tack! [What's THAT in Finnish?] This is so cool!

And this partially explains why [yes, I was listening to it over and over once I got the lyrics printed out] I was hearing t substituted with almost a d sound in some places and with a harder t in others.

But I want to learn more and this seems like a perfect song to keep teaching us with.

The Swedish ä is like the a in ask. I notice that sometimes it is in Finnish, too, but not always. When are vowels hard and when soft? [And yes, I keep singing Kylä as tho it were Swedish -- -- Gotta break myself of that one.

AND I want more verses.

Oh, and there's the issue of the translated words making no sense to my non-Finnish mind. Why would they think the brother would come with nothing? And where is the brother in all this? Does he accompany the bride on the boat? Are the singers on land or on other boats [In Sweden, the fiddlers travel with the bride in the boats]? And what's this with the horse? Where'd HE come from? Who's riding?

Okay. I'll be quiet now ....

Barb


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 26 Jan 00 - 02:34 PM

Oh, and another question. How come the translation can be either daughter or sister-in-law? From what you said, it should always be sister-in-law. Does the groom's mother also sing? Or the bride's? Is there no term to directly refer to the groom's sister(s)' relationship?

Also, in Finnish does the day rise? Is that like "sol uppgång" in Swedish [sunrise or daybreak in English]

Just curious.

Barb


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: GUEST,emily rain @ u dub
Date: 26 Jan 00 - 03:50 PM

also check out the link on the "free sheet music - really" thread. several scand. folk songs.


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 01:55 PM

And I have yet another question ..

tullahikse in the recording sounds like they're saying either tullähikse or tullehikse. Can the long a be a misprint?


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: AKS
Date: 28 Jan 00 - 04:39 PM

Sori for the delay, but here's some answers for you Barb, hope I got them all and that I don't confuse you completely!

Ole hyvä (= be good; be my guest, or also, please. Tack is kiitos, many thanks is paljon kiitoksia, though many young people of today simply say 'tänks':-)!

What exactly do you mean by hard/soft vowels? The undottet/dotted difference, perhaps? If that, here's the rule:

- Vowel harmony: if there is /a/o/u/ in the first syllable, then /ä/ö/y/ can not occur in that word and vice versa, /e/i/ are neutral in that respect (the same applies to the long vowels). Eg: sulhanen (bridegroom) tyhjä (empty) levätä (to rest) lepo (rest) talo (house) tölli (small house, cot) talli (horse)stable).

Finnish /ä/ is quite near to the Swedish (am I right to presume that you are somewhat familiar with it?) /ä/ pronounced before an /r/ (eg nära, här), the other Swedish ä's are too much e-like (hälsa, vän). Also, the difference between English cut/cat isn't that far from katko/kätkö (break, cut/hide-out, stash); and bath - RP, not Am. - /bad would quite nicely compare to paatua/pääte (to become cold-hearted/terminal, ending).

Finnish /ö/y/ are front vowels, ie. differ from /o/u/ (being back v's) so that tip of the tongue is close to the front teeth. Say /u/ (as in Eng. soothe), keep your lips at that rounded position and try to say /i/ (as in need); you should be making Finnish /y/ which btw is to Swedish /y/ (as in ny). You'd be getting an /ö/ by saying /e/ (as in bet) with rounded lips. Again, Swedish /ö/ is similar (as in söka).

Notice also that Finnish vowels can be combined into diphtongs in various ways.

In many versions it in fact isn't the daughter-in-law she's waiting for but her brother: 'miepä vuotin veijoani, veijoani, minjoani' (... for my brother ...). The sister could also sing as a representative of her mother, I guess. The Finnish word that nowadays 'means brother's wife or husband's sister' is käly, but if I remember correctly it originally meant only one of them - don't remember which one. And there are two technical reasons why 'käly' couldn't be used a) it does not cope with the rule of alliteration and b) it does not fit metrically (two short syllables instead of one long one short).

The brother and the spokesma/en have been at the leaving ceremony at the bride's house and are returning with the bride, accompanied by singers, perhaps some players too, though instruments weren't so much used in Karelia, and of course wedding guest from the bride's kin. If the wedding took place in the winter time - or if no waterways were available - horses and sleighs were used for transport instead of boats.

The ceremonies included lots of singing, I think all parties involved did at least some of it. Some of it was instructive, some expressed both sorrow and glee about the change that was to be in the lives of the young couple, some were to praize them, and, also, to mock them. That was part of the ritual and the negative side of it was done for the sake balance; too much praizing would cost its price later. Thus the 'lie' about the groom to come back with nothing.

Yes you're right, they sing it 'tullehikse' (in fact dullehikse which is hypercorrect, even the Karelian /t/ is not that voiced, the Finnish never is). That, again, is simply a matter of dialect, in modern Finnish that would be 'tulleeksi'.

And yes, the sun also rises, in Finnish, too. In modern dictionaries 'päivä' is given the meaning 'day', but it has originally meant also 'sun' for which we now use word 'aurinko' that, I think, is a loan word from some germanic language.

Still hunting for the Finnish lyrics sites!

terveisin (with greetings) AKS


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 28 Jan 00 - 06:05 PM

Cool! I love learning all this about a new language. I lived in Sweden for 2.5 years [well, 2,5 if we're going to do it right] and got mistaken for a northern Swede [small wonder -- I lived with someone from Boden] before I left. I still speak it and write it, but not here .

There's a couple of songs that Väsen does, too, that we want to learn -- and since their singers are Finnish now, can you help with those, too?

Kiitos!

Barb


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 01:09 PM

Oops. Not Väsen. Hedningarna. Still game?


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: BDenz
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 04:01 PM

Arto -- since it looks like it's just me that's interested anymore, we can take this discussion to email if you'd rather. You can reach me at this address.

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: open mike
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 07:02 PM

There are several sites..
american nyckelharpa association
Northern california spelmanslag
american hardingfele association

and others....will post URL 's soon.


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: open mike
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 11:02 AM

Northern California Spelmanslag
http://www.norcalspelmanslag.org/

American Nyckelharpa Association
www.nyckelharpa.org/

American Hardingfele Association
www.hfaa.org

Drone Records (Swedish)
http://www.drone.se/index.php?lang=eng

North Side Records..Scandinavian music company in Minnesota
http://www.noside.com/

Seattle are Scandinavian Dance group
http://www.skandia-folkdance.org/

Scandinavian links: Consulates, Calendars, Culture, Commerce, and Connections
http://www.scandinavius.com/


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: open mike
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 03:48 PM

this band is touring the east coast these days..BJÄRV
they have a nyckelharpa!!

http://www.myspace.com/bjarv

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bjarv

so if you are in or near VT,CT,MA,RI, get thee to their show!
Jul 30 2010         12:00P
        Champlain Valley Folk Fest         Burlington, Vermont         
Aug 4 2010         8:00P
        Club Passim         Cambridge, Massachuss         
Aug 6 2010         7:00P
        @ Outdoor amphitheater         Branford, Connecticut         
Aug 7 2010         8:00P
        Blackstone River Theater         Cumberland, Rhode Isla


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Subject: RE: Scandinavian Folk Music sites
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 03:06 PM

Early nyckelharpa recordings:

http://excavatedshellac.com/2015/08/16/the-nyckelharpa/


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