Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: GUEST,JeffB
Date: 10 Oct 23 - 10:08 PM

Hi Tim

After hearing you sing this tonight I was piqued to find your post. Rob Waltz's suggestion that it might be from the Maritimes made me look at Julia Lane's and Fred Gosbee's book "Bygone Ballads of Maine" and sure enough Julia has researched and published it.

Their note on the song says that it "seems to originate in Scotland, appearing in the Grieg/Duncan Collection, and migrating to Ireland, Maritime Canada, and Maine. One feature which does not occur in all versions is that of the oblivious yopung lady ... 'Home Sweet Home' suggests the piece is no older than the ditty, namely 1828."

She could of course be a later addition.

Something I failed to mention in the discussion after your song was the reference to Rodney. Could this be Admiral George Rodney? He had a command in the Atlantic during the American War of Indepencence.

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: GUEST,JeffB
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 01:22 PM

And if it's helpful, it's also in Doerflinger's "Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman". D. said it was sung in a logging camp in New Brunswick.

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 01:45 PM

We have found 5 versions collected in Maine -the earliest is 1924- but one man claimed to have learned it from his father who "escaped from a British Man-o-war" We published one in our recent book "Songs of Ships & Sailors" with these notes

"A particularly graphic song of an encounter between a merchantman and a pirate, this seems to originate in Scotland, appearing in the Greig/Duncan Collection, and migrating to Ireland, Maritime Canada, and Maine. One feature which does not occur in all versions is that of the oblivious young lady below decks singing to the accompaniment of her harp or guitar. The ruthless pirate captain ends her concert with a stroke of his sword, apparently to prevent a fight amongst the sailors. The subject of her song “Home, Sweet Home” suggests the piece is no older than that ditty, namely 1828. Two other sets of lyrics, collected by Phillips Barry and Fannie Eckstorm circa 1924, are published in Minstrelsy of Maine. One of the singers, Horace Priest, learned songs from his father who, he says, escaped a British man-o’-war while off Boston due to harsh treatment and then came to the Maine woods (Minstrelsy of Maine, p. 259).
Two rows of teeth = the cannon ports in the ship’s side. Sometimes ships would disguise themselves by covering their gunports with a canvas curtain.

Subject: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: RTim
Date: 10 Oct 23 - 04:46 PM

Hi all...I have been trying to find the origins of the song - "Bold Manning" or as it is also known in other parts of the world - "Bold Manon".
The version I sing was collected in Southampton (UK) from Frederick White an ex-seaman (born in Australia) by Dr. George Gardiner in 1906.
Gardiner also collected a fragment Hampshire from Mr. Goodyear.....These are the only two versions collected in England.

The song has also been collected (later than 1906) in Scotland, Newfoundland, Maine, etc.. - so was pretty well spread at one time, but it is not a very common song...However I cannot find any Broadsides, or Origins etc.. of the song.

Thanks - Tim Radford (Woods Hole MA USA - ex-Hampshire and Oxfordshire UK)

It is a very long song and I attach the text I sing below...

Bold Manning - Frederick White –Roud 673 – Southampton
(GG/1/17/383) – Tune & Text – White - 21 Jun 1906

Bold Manning being at sea one day, the day was dreary too,
It was thick as buttermilk, all with the fog and dew.
When Manning, like a hungry shark, he ploughed the raging main,
He ploughed it all that very long night until he reached his game.

It was early the next morning, just by the break of day,
He espied a large and lofty ship, to leeward of us did lay,
All hands, all hands to quarters, prepare for to make sail,
Here’s a homebound East India ship, I know we shall prevail.

Then he called for his bo’sun, whose name was William Cragg,
Saying, Cragg, Oh Cragg, jump upon deck and hoist our black flag.
Then Cragg, being a valiant man, a man of courage bold,
But seeing of his father’s ship. It made his blood run cold.

Now we bore right down upon her and steered up along side,
With a loud speaking trumpet, where are you for? We cried.
Where are you from? Cried Manning, I bid you tell me true.
For if you do belie yourself, a broadside I’ll give you.

The chief mate on the quarterdeck, not knowing what to do,
But still to answer him he must, and answered him so true.
We are the “Fame”, from New York came, to London we are bound.
Our Captain’s name is William Cragg, a native of that town.

Oh no, oh no, says Manning, that thing can never be so,
Come, heave your main yard to your mast, and let your ship lie to.
Then all of those cruel pirates they all took sword in hand,
They went on board of the merchant ship and murdered every man.

Now some they slew and some they slay, and some they killed outright,
Excepting three poor fellows, who jumped overboard with fright.
They searched the “Fame” all over, they roused up everything,
And at last they found poor Captain Cragg, lying sick in his own cabin.

Then he called for his bo’sun, saying, come here William Cragg,
Beware and mind what I do say, go cut off your father’s head.
They searched the “Fame” all over, they roused up everything,
At last they found a female in the after main cabin.

She, not knowing of the matter, not knowing what was done,
She was playing upon her harp and so merrily she sung:
Home, home, sweet home, there’s no place like home, **
I’m in search of that young man that caused me to roam.

Now some did curse and some did swear they would have her for a wife.
Oh no, oh no, says Manning, for I’ll soon end her strife.
With that he rushed upon her without fear or dread,
And drawing his sword from out its sheath, he severed off her head.

Now all those wicked pirates, not caring what they had done,
They went on board of their pirate ship and so merrily they sung.
With a keg of brandy on the capstan head, so merrily did they sing,
And all the first watch of the night they made the air to ring.

‘Twas early the next morning, just by the break of day,
Another large and lofty ship to leeward of us did lay.
All hands, all hands to quarters, prepare for to make sail,
Here’s another homebound bounder, I know we shall prevail.

Then they bore right down upon her and steered up along side,
And with a loud speaking trumpet, where are you from? he cried.
Where are you from? Cries Manning, I bid you tell me true.
For I have lost my longitude about three days ago.

Bold Rodney on his quarter-deck, a surly man was he,
Not caring for to answer them, he still kept on his way.
When Manning like a madman, he stamped his foot and said,
I’ll let you know, my hero, I’m master of the main.

Now, for broadside, for broadside, they fought with all their might,
At last those wicked pirates were sunk down out of sight,
Whilst Rodney and his gallant crew goes gently o’er the wave
A band upon the quarterdeck so merrily did play -

“Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves, **
Britons never, never shall be slaves.”

** Note – Tune change for Home Sweet Home
and - at End - Rule Britannia.

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: RTim
Date: 10 Oct 23 - 10:38 PM

Hi Jeff...Yes - I meant to look at Julia & Fred's book (as I saw the reference in the Roud Index)..but I hadn't got around to it yet..Good Spot!! To busy watching TV...Three British crime serials.....

With the two references above, it does look like it Not being English...but interesting that there were two versions collected in Hampshire, even if the best was from an Australian, as in the 2nd reference above.
I have not seen it in the Greig/Duncan Collection, but will look again.
It doesn't feel Scottish or Colonial to me, and with the reference to Rodney (who I assume is the famous Admiral..)..who I have not researched yet...makes it feel English...But in the end it does not matter...It's just a good story and song...

Tim

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: RTim
Date: 10 Oct 23 - 11:08 PM

So what have we learnt..?
A mention of the song in a 1868 English Magazine..
A reference to the song being sung in New South Wales, Australia in 1848..
Collected in Hampshire in 1906 and 1907..
The Greig/Duncan collection did not start until 1902...and it is the only Scottish version
The Canadian Maritimes collecting did not happen until later....
The total lack of any Broadsides is odd but interesting..

But again...it all doesn't matter...It's a great song..

Thanks all for your input...let's hope for more info in the future..

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: RTim
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 02:03 PM

Thanks again all...I do have a copy of your great book Julia...:-)

I have posted my sung version on my SoundCloud site on the link below...

Tim Radford

https://soundcloud.com/tim-radford/bold-manning-1

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: RTim
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 03:54 PM

Thanks for your answer Steve Gardham - I could not find your email address to write and ask you about it...but you answered here..
I do know about southern men working in the Maritimes and bringing back songs to England....It think Joseph Elliott of Todber, Dorset was the prime example.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 03:03 PM

First observation, it has obvious text from other pirate ballads.
Second, it is a rather convoluted story, unlike many another of its ilk.
Third, it has landsman written all over it. A writer having a go at a pirate ballad?
I would go with Bob's suggestion that it's not British.
Its appearance in Hampshire is not surprising. Many south coast fishermen went fishing off Newfoundland in the 19th century and several American songs turn up on the English south coast. Pure conjecture but I'd say on style it's not much older than 1860.

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Oct 23 - 10:52 AM

Hi Tim
You should have my email address somewhere but try lower case my surname with an added s then

at then

hotmaildotcom.

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: cnd
Date: 10 Oct 23 - 07:18 PM

The earliest definitive reference to the song I've come across was in the August 4th, 1894 edition of the Newcastle Morning Herald and Miners' Advocate, p. 3 (click), where it was sang by Mr. F. A. Horne at a Carrington, Australia winter concert at a concert with "a large attendance of seamen and shore friends."

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 10 Oct 23 - 05:21 PM

RTim wrote: Hi all...I have been trying to find the origins of the song - "Bold Manning" or as it is also known in other parts of the world - "Bold Manon".

You'll probably find it easier to look up using Laws's designation. It's Laws D15, and his title is "Bold Manan the Pirate."

You'll note, from its Laws number, that Laws thought it of American origin -- the only non-American text he knew was Ranson's Wexford version. As you've observed, there are others (from both England and Scotland). But he knew no broadsides. I know no broadsides. Steve Roud lists no broadsides.

Looking at the distribution of versions, I'd guess that it originated in the Canadian Maritimes or Newfoundland, but that's only a guess. There is a likely reference to it from 1868:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Once_a_Week/8dRMAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=dallas+%22once+a+week%22+%22on+shanties%22&pg=PA92&printsec=frontcover.

But it gives no text.

So best guess is that it is North American, from before 1868, but we can't be sure of any of that.

Subject: RE: Origins: Bold Manning - Roud 673
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 04:08 AM

RTim wrote: The total lack of any Broadsides is odd but interesting.

This is the other reason I suspect Canadian origin. England, Scotland, the United States, even Australia had broadside printers. Ireland and Canada didn't, really, and there aren't enough Irish version to suspect the song originated there. But there are many Canadian versions.

Not proof, of course, but it's consistent with Canadian origin.