Origins: Are hymns allowed?

Subject: Origins: Are Welsh hymns allowed?
From: GUEST,Len Kennington
Date: 19 Dec 23 - 07:44 AM

I've got a Welsh hymn here - but only in English translation. If it is within the remit of this group, I'll pop it down below, original Welsh title would be appreciated                                          

His words give Light and strength, sweet like the honey dew,
Strong like the formidable hills, Christ's death is his seal,
They will strengthen my stride, in the bewildering barren land,
They will fortify my fragile soul, in water and in fire,

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: cnd
Date: 19 Dec 23 - 08:40 AM

Yes, I think hymns are fine. Post away!

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 23 - 10:15 AM

Someone posted a link to a site of Welsh hymns last week. I forgot on which thread though.

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: Helen
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 12:02 PM

GUEST,Len Kennington, could you post the full lyrics of the Welsh hymn please, and it would help if you could give us more information about the hymn.

Note: Translations can differ widely, so other people may have heard the same hymn with different English lyrics.

These are some of the usual questions:

When did you hear it or did you see it in a written music collection? If it was in a written music collection, what is the name of that book or collection?

Was it recorded? Did you hear it on the radio, see it on TV, hear it on vinyl, CD, digital, YouTube, etc? Did you hear it live?

Any more information would be helpful.

Thanks, Helen

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: Helen
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 12:16 PM

Also, the phrase "in the bewildering barren land" reminds me of a line in the hymn Guide me, O thou great Redeemer [or Jehovah]:

Guide me, O thou great Jehovah,
pilgrim though this barren land;
I am weak, but thou art mighty;
hold me with thy powerful hand;
Bread of heaven, Bread of heaven,
feed me till I want no more,
feed me till I want no more.

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 04:15 PM

I used Bing translator to convert your text back to Welsh* and then searched for the lyrics which gave me the result that they come from a Welsh language hymn Goleuni [Light] written by the great hymn writer, William Williams Pantycelyn (1717-1791), and published in 1762.
You can view digital texts of all his publications online through the National Library of Wales website The Printed Works of William Williams Pantycelyn, but I couldn't trace this particular hymn, probably because the text has been corrupted after so many translations back and forth!

* [The machine translation of your text came up with this:-
Mae ei eiriau'n rhoi Goleuni a chryfder, melys fel y gwlith mêl,
Cryf fel y bryniau aruthrol, Marwolaeth Crist yw ei sel,
Byddan nhw'n cryfhau fy nghwrs, yn y wlad ddiffrwyth, ddryslyd,
Byddan nhw'n cryfhau fy enaid bregus, mewn dwr a than,]

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 10:22 PM

I KNEW there was a reason for me having a crazy number of hymn books. Found it. It's in Emynau yr Eglwys (1904) (Hymns of the Church) and sung to the tune Moriah. It's also in a Methodist hymn book (click)- which, as it's a William Williams Pantycelyn hymn, I would expect. I do like the tune to which it is usually sung. It's here (click)


sian, west wales

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 10:25 PM

Hmm. Didn't get the blue clickies right but ... you can cut/paste.

s, ww

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: Reinhard
Date: 21 Dec 23 - 02:26 AM

Link: Goleu a nerthol yw dy eiriau

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 21 Dec 23 - 11:21 AM

Thank you, mud-sprites, for the clickies.

s, ww

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Dec 23 - 03:56 PM

Is this the same hymn?
https://hymnary.org/hymn/CMSP1918/page/155


Text:        Goleuni ac anfreidrol rym
Author:        Pantycelyn
Tune:        BEATITUDO
Composer: Dr. John B. Dykes

Len Kennington, I'd like to give the thread another title so that people can find it - but I also want you to be able to find it. What title should I rename the thread to?

Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 21 Dec 23 - 07:08 PM

No, different hymn. "Pantycelyn" is the same as "William Williams Pantycelyn". So many Welsh had the same, or similar names (like William Williams) it was common to add a place name to it - often the individual's home farm or town. He wrote a lot of hymns on similar themes popular to that Age, and many on the metre.

s, ww

Subject: RE: Origins: Are hymns allowed?
From: GUEST,Len Kennington
Date: 22 Dec 23 - 03:44 PM

The original hymn can be heard in a 1935 Welsh language film about Quarrymen, it's at about the 29 & a half minute mark, but I didn't post it because it's only playable in the UK, and everyone elsewhere tends to get a bit frustrated!                  
https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-y-chwarelwr-1935-online