BS: American Presidential race 2024

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jul 24 - 07:02 AM

But enough about you, let's talk about Pelosi instead. This article raises some interesting ideas about Nancy Pelosi's likely role in convincing Joe Biden to rethink his position on his Presidential campaign:

How one of the most powerful women in America helped put Kamala Harris on the Democratic ticket

"In the three weeks between US President Joe Biden's disastrous debate and his decision to step away from the 2024 ticket, one woman emerged as the key driver of efforts to push the Democratic Party towards a historic decision.

"Nancy Pelosi, a former house speaker and party elder, has been a colleague and ally of Joe Biden for more than three decades.

"'Their strong friendship is rooted in a shared dedication to public service, and devotion to their families and their faith,' Biden spokesman TJ Ducklo told the Washington Post in 2021.

"But while they may share common values and mutual respect, the two influential Democratic figures recently found themselves at odds over the 2024 presidential race — and who should be at the top of the ticket."

...

It seems to me that Ms Pelosi diplomatically navigated a difficult situation for the good of the country.

And my take on Kamala Harris running against Trump is that he is likely to underestimate her at his own peril.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jul 24 - 06:12 AM

I’m still here… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jul 24 - 05:01 AM

It's all right, Dick. We know he is a "good bloke" (the highest accolade any Aussie can bestow on any man)! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Jul 24 - 04:26 AM

he is from lincolnshire[ the uk backwoods] and gave himself that name because the Borchester Echo rip,described him thus.
Boston linclonshire, like Clacton is a stronghold of Farage supporters
BACKWOODSMAN is an exception

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 26 Jul 24 - 06:25 PM

And now, back to the topic of discussion, I guess. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jul 24 - 05:48 PM

Neither of them!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 26 Jul 24 - 04:57 PM

Or is he the Woodsman who lives out the Back and kept her hostage in the first place? Hmm?!! Maybe he hid the white bandage by wearing a wolf costume. The plot plickens. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 26 Jul 24 - 03:15 PM

Very funny Backwoodsman.
Meaning to ask, are you related to the Woodsman that saved Red Riding Hood from the Wolf?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 24 - 12:20 PM

Just spotted in a FarceBook post, made me larrff…

”The American approach to healthcare can be pretty shocking, but the new policy that obliges people with mental health issues to warn others of their condition by wearing a conspicuous white bandage on their ear seems downright sinister.”

I do like a bit of humour in political discussions…

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jul 24 - 01:59 AM

Policies, quote from Vox
Trump, by contrast, has promised to quickly end the war in Ukraine — a pledge celebrated on placards waved in Milwaukee — most likely by pressuring Kyiv to negotiate away territory to Moscow. He is also a longtime skeptic of European security alliances, including NATO, and recently suggested Taiwan should “pay us for defense” against an invasion by China, which sent the stock price of the island’s vital semiconductor manufacturers falling. Vance, Trump’s new running mate, is one of Congress’s leading skeptics of efforts to defend the “liberal international order,” particularly when it comes to the war in Ukraine.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jul 24 - 12:38 AM

This is where the Democratic political players can show their stuff. The 'bullpen' (if there is a better term for this, i.e. more illustrative/ conclusive, don't hesitate to weigh in here). I'm thinking that there is a possibility that TRMP and his limited brainiacs, in other words, his family and acolytes, pulled a boner with picking Vance. Savvy Dem politicos who can weigh ability, personality, state of origin, etc. etc. may turn out to be as useful as they were traditionally.

Now I'm bringing back gto memory some of the great though dated songs from a Broadway Musical of the 60s celebrating the career of Fiorello LaGuardia, one of the great politicians of New York (and a Republican). The musical, called Fiorello!, starred Tom Bosley, who could sing! He may be remembered by some of the folks who liked the long running series: "Happy Days." Anyway, the musical is a revisit to old days of smoke filled rooms, back room deals, and those are the good guys ("Politics and Poker"). And the corrupt bastards ("A LIttle Tin Box") are remembered, too.

Those days are gone, sort of. The human motivations that underlie our decisions are not.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 11:14 PM

Every pundit has their favorite on that short list, and they all have compelling reasons. We shall see soon, but they're keeping the cards very close to the vest.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 11:11 PM

I just watched Biden's speech where he officially bowed out of the race. I must admit to having an unexpected emotional reaction. I felt like I was witnessing the passage of one of our last great statesmen.
But, moving on. What does anyone think about Andy Beshear as running mate for Harris. He's a 2-term Democratic governor in a deep red state, so he has shown he can win Republican and Independent votes.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 02:53 PM

Look what charisma will buy you - someone like Trump whose bad behavior keeps all of the cameras pointed at him. I'd settle for staid or boring if the next leader will get the job done without breaking the law and restore our rights.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 02:21 PM

When Kamala was in the nomination race against Biden (and others) I was not impressed. Primarily because of her lack of presence, according to me. I felt that I had not given her a chance, and when she ran with Joe Biden I was okay with that, but her presence as a speaker, her mannerisms under questioning, did not grow on me. I suspect I'm not alone in that feeling, and I hope that she has gone to work on her 'aspect' a la Margaret Thatcher. I was all for Joe right up to his dropping out, because there is an American saying dating back to Abraham Lincoln's second run for President with the Civil War still raging: "Don't change horses in midstream."
So amidst the gladsome tidings of her comparative youth her legal experience, her minority status, her supposed ability in a debate, the Democratic Party took a hit when Biden dropped out. I'm not saying it didn't have to go this way, but we are on untrodden ground here.

Having said all that, I also strongly feel that what we are experiencing, political stomach butterflies and all, is an actual case of DEMOCRACY WORKING. This is what happens with the perversity and unpredictability of the human animal straining at the restraints. Our institutions are holding together remarkably well. And our luck has held out as well, in the lack of violence, and the good luck in not losing a candidate due to the random act of violence of last week.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 02:00 PM

They're also using Agenda 47 to describe that nefarious plan.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 01:11 PM

Even more ironic, BWM, is that one of the goals of Project 2025 is to dismantle the Dept of Justice. I don't know a lot about that except that this week I watched a two-part documentary on Oz ABC TV in which different people around Trump were interviewed. One of them talked about the intention of re-working the DOJ to their own advantage if Trump gets back into the White House.

Four Corners: Retribution (Parts 1 & 2)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 12:43 PM

How ironic that the Republicans bill themselves as the "Back the Blue" (ie. support law and order) party, who now have to justify to themselves why they would vote for a literal convicted felon over a literal state prosecutor.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 03:27 AM

I wonder if it’s occurred to tRump that there’s now only one old man with declining mental agility and capacity in the Presidential race, and it’s him?

The more I see and hear Kamala Harris, the more impressed I am with her. But, of course, it’s American voters she needs to impress. Hopefully she will score big on the issues of women’s health and gun control. And, of course, we await with interest the debates - intellectually she seems to be on a different level to tRump, let’s hope she can rise above his tactics of dirty looks and insults.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 02:46 AM

Policies are the important thing not personalities.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 11:26 PM

I think the light is a little bit brighter and the end of the tunnel a little bit closer.

I think President Biden deserves a huge amount of credit for soldiering on, and I think he could have succeeded but the Trump baby is a once-in-a-century challenge and Kamala Harris is all charged up to fight, with Biden beside her, not as a running mate but as a strategic advisor with inside knowledge.

And, I think it is ironic that Trump has taken some potshots at Kamala, giving her the nickname Laughing Kamala, saying you can tell a lot about people from their laugh, and it made me think: have I ever seen any footage or photos of Trump laughing? He is so negative, I don't think he even knows how to laugh. Even when he is making snide remarks about other people, he does not laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 09:35 PM

That "light" was always at the end of that tunnel. I still say that Joe would have won (and we don't need Dick jumping in and saying I have no evidence - neither does he.) Jumping on the Kamala bus was pushback at the Democrats who were trying to talk Biden out of the race as much as they were supporting her - because as AOC pointed out - many of the moneyed folks were behind the scenes wanting both of them off the ticket. By donating right away and volunteering right away - all of the small money folks were making it clear that Harris had to stay on the ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 06:06 PM

Definitely authentic. David Attenborough would be convinced. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 05:05 PM

Thank you, Helen. I hope that sounded authentic.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 04:50 PM

Behold, an American in the wild, doing his thang, uttering his iconic cry, "Yeeeeehaaaaaw!!!".

We're happy for you, gillymor and Stilly and all of our other US friends who finally might be able to see some light at the end of the tunnel.

I think Kamala Harris's comment about knowing Donald Trump’s type is a call of the wild as well, i.e. "bring it on, (Trump) baby!".

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 04:36 PM

Yeeeeehaaaaaw!!!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 04:34 PM

Whooping and hollering is just what Americans do, Dave - it’s their ‘thang’. ;-)
Me, I just tune out all the noise. So far I’m impressed with Ms Harris. Fingers crossed…

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 03:15 PM

Hated all the whooping and hype but loved the speech. She gives me hope for the future. Let's hope she continues. For the first time I am looking forward to watching the next presidential debate.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 02:29 PM

Thanks BWM.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 01:56 PM

Helen, here is Kamala Harris’s full speech in which she declares that ‘I know his type’. I’m impressed so far…

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 01:43 PM

I especially like this statement in Kamala Harris's first speech:

Kamala Harris has vowed to go after Republican nominee Donald Trump like the courtroom prosecutor she once was as she made her debut campaign speech.

“'I took on perpetrators of all kinds. Predators who abused women, fraudsters who ripped off consumers, cheaters who broke the rules for their own gain,' she told supporters at Biden’s campaign headquarters in Wilmington, Delaware.

“'So hear me when I say I know Donald Trump’s type. In this campaign, I will proudly, I will proudly put my record against his,' said Harris, who was attorney general of California and a US senator before serving as Biden’s vice president."

(Note: I tried to find it on ABC (Oz) News but I have read so many articles and seen it on TV so it was difficult to track it down.)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 10:12 AM

It seems the GOP is wondering if they can call up a court case to prevent Biden from handing over the DNC war chest to Harris. Lots of luck with that one, guys. Desperate measures. And if Biden decided to do an end run and step down, giving the Presidency to Harris, all of Trump's "47" merch would suddenly be obsolete. :)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 24 - 12:08 AM

Unfortunately the vitriol slinging has already started but I suspect she will bat it away fairly confidently, and maybe make some home runs in the process.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jul 24 - 08:50 PM

Exactly, Helen. Hopes dashed has happened so often but this one feels different. As someone said, she spoke only verifiable truths. He's going to be running scared.

We'll have to brace ourselves for the vitriol he's going to sling her way. The good thing is that I don't think it will faze her.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 22 Jul 24 - 07:49 PM

Ebbie, I am cautiously optimistic too. Finally a glimmer of hope!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 22 Jul 24 - 07:28 PM

I like Cory Booker for VP, but someone like Mark Kelly might be a safer bet.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jul 24 - 06:45 PM

Wow! Did anyone else listen to Kamala Harris's speech? She was fantastic, hard hitting and believable. My money is on her. She can win.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jul 24 - 06:24 PM

He wasnt dropped he just dropped out

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jul 24 - 05:55 PM

The thing , in England we're very used to politicians talking incoherent bollocks.....
not a hanging offence over here.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jul 24 - 12:42 PM

How popular is Kamala in general?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 24 - 11:31 AM

Go back and read what is already here, Dick.

Joe wasn't "dropped." The large donors with a megaphone decided they wanted something different. Politicians in states where they fear Biden's coattails wouldn't help sweep them to victory piled on. Nothing needed to change, Biden would have won. But the complaining was likely to scare off those few voters who really didn't have a firm reason for wanting our Democracy to continue or Women's Rights to be restored, and Joe recognized that and chose to leave the race so the party can proceed with a younger candidate who might persuade the undecided. Well, kids you got what you wanted, now pony up.

The $50M that Harris raised in a few hours was all from small donors, individually without and megaphones, bonding together to build their own megaphone that shows huge support. I repeat, big names and big mouths, now is the time to support Harris so she can secure the nomination and a running mate. Get it done and out of harm's way before Putin and Trump and Thiel start meddling.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jul 24 - 11:04 AM

from new york times
R.F.K.-Aligned Super PAC Draws Heavily From a Republican Megadonor

A super PAC backing Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s bid for the Democratic nomination received $5 million from a major Republican donor who has supported Donald J. Trump in the past.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jul 24 - 10:33 AM

Joe would have won. quote
so why was he dropped?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 09:57 PM

Since the announcement was made this afternoon in the first five hours the Harris campaign has brought in $46.7M. I sent something (larger than the rest of my individual contributions). The data spoke to Biden.

Joe would have won. Kamala will win. The difference is that the moneyed class got their way on which candidate will be on the ballot. That is a problem, but one to solve another day. The reason the Big Names in the party (Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, etc.) haven't endorsed Harris today is because they wanted this day to honor Biden and his work, and the endorsements will come tomorrow. And Biden is still the president, for six more months.

When it comes to a running-mate, the goal is to benefit the campaign by having someone who will bring in votes on their own. But they also have to be smart and savvy enough to step into the presidency if the need arises. If you choose someone already in office when there is a shortage of Democratic senators and congresspeople, you need to choose someone who doesn't need to be replaced (when in the interim their absence might make a difference in the balance of power.) One strategy is to choose a governor of one of the four or five states that (because of the blankety-blank electoral college) is a battleground state. (That is so unfair to the entire electorate, that the electoral college is the decider instead of the popular vote - perhaps we'll finally get THAT mess fixed soon.)

I think the reason why so many people are stepping up now to endorse Harris is to mute the bullshit that the big dollar donors might try to pull to have some other candidate compete for the presidential position. They made enough trouble, now they need to, as Texas Congress member Jasmine Crockett says "lace up their shoes and get to work."

So far (again, within seven hours of the announcement) five states have announced that their Biden electorates are now committed to Harris. This will continue through the week and by the time of the Democratic Convention hopefully this will be resolved (it also has to be done in time to head off some BS from Ohio that means the candidate has to be selected by their deadline, though the Democratic Convention is scheduled after that deadline.)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 09:33 PM

If I weren't pretty sure that too many people would not vote for the pair, my vote would go to Kamala Harris and Pete Buttigieg. He is bright, informed, articulate and engaged.

Failing that, I'd vote for Amy Klobuchar- but no one is going to vote for TWO women. (One might surmise that I'm not in tune with the American people.)

AND failing that, I vote for Mark Kelly.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 08:19 PM

I hope you are right, Neil D. I'm fearing the worst regarding a woman as Presidential candidate and hoping for the best.

I have worked in a lot of different workplaces and the general belief tended to be that men were promoted to management, and promoted other men to management, and women had "other skills" like typing, admin, people skills etc. That was despite our best efforts as union reps and union members to generate healthy, productive change. Society is changing, so maybe my past decades of experiences are out of date in this century. I sincerely hope so. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 08:00 PM

Helen, I think any white, male voters who wouldn't vote for a woman are already staunchly in the other camp. And I just can't picture any Democrat women who wouldn't vote for a woman. She sure is going to have to come on strong in the 3 1/2 weeks left. I think the next round of polling will show she is starting from behind. For what it's worth she has my full support.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 06:48 PM

Yes I agree, Big Al Whittle, but it looked like the badgering was not going to stop and it has been placing the Democrats in a vulnerable position. It is very late in the game to put in a substitute player but there were limited options, and this is the game they really need to win.

My real hope is that Kamala Harris is chosen as the Presidential candidate, because she has inside knowledge of how the President should operate, and because she will appeal to a lot of the women voters who have serious concerns about a possible future second term for Trump, and because the campaign funds allocated to Biden can flow on to Harris. A new, different candidate could not access those funds and would have to start from scratch and, given the limited time until the election, that could be a major obstacle.

I have arrived at these opinions based on a number of reputable, reliable, fact-based news sources e.g. ABC (Australia) News, ABC America, Planet America on ABC (Oz), PBS Washington Week With The Atlantic, PBS News, and other sources.

And as I have said before, in a democratic system where voting is not compulsory, voters need to be motivated to vote based on a reasonable expectation that their vote will make a positive difference, that there is a high level of hope that their chosen candidate will succeed, and that the successful candidate will achieve the desired outcomes while in office.

I still worry that many voters, but especially white, male voters would not vote for a woman to be President, and even some Democrat supporters who are women may not vote for a woman to be President. To achieve that outcome, I thought that President Biden would continue with his campaign, showing the world that he is capable of campaigning, winning and continuing his Presidential achievements and that possibly his health would decline in the next year or so and he would hand over the reins to VP Harris, but that would have depended on him succeeding in gaining a second term.

Wait and see, hope and pray.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 06:04 PM

Deposed by thunder! They tipped him the black spot.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 04:10 PM

From an article which is being updated at present on ABC (Oz) News:

Barack Obama says says the decision is 'a testament to Joe Biden’s love of country'

"'Former president Barack Obama, who Joe Biden served as VP for two terms, has issued a statement paying tribute to his 'dear friend'.

"He says Biden's 'outstanding track record' gave him 'every right to run for re-election and finish the job he started'.

    "'Joe Biden has been one of America's most consequential presidents, as well as a dear friend and partner to me. Today, we’ve also been reminded – again – that he’s a patriot of the highest order. '

    "'I also know Joe has never backed down from a fight. For him to look at the political landscape and decide that he should pass the torch to a new nominee is surely one of the toughest in his life. But I know he wouldn’t make this decision unless he believed it was right for America.'

    "'It's a testament to Joe Biden's love of country — and a historic example of a genuine public servant once again putting the interests of the American people ahead of his own that future generations of leaders will do well to follow.'"