BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK

Subject: BS: Cycling MUST be made iilegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Aug 24 - 06:14 PM

Just had a harrowing lift home from WLTUC tonight. When the person giving me a lift turned right she came within inches of colliding with three cyclists without lights who jumped a red light. It was down to the skill of the driver that this didn't turn into a major tragedy.

If cyclists are returned to their families in a body bag, then that is not a problem. what is a problem is:

9a) it still does damage to cars.
(b) If a collision happened, then my journey home would have been delayed due to the police wanting to take statements,
(c) Any vehicles at the junction would also been held up particularly as all the roads are also bus routes.

Until the cycling community gets its act together, cycling must be made ilegal. If they dn;t like it, then don't blame society, just blame the handful of idiot cyclists who have stuffed things up for them.

I woud accpet a few ther altrnatives:

24 hour policing at every set f traffic lights in the UK

Flood lighting at every set of traffic lights - if that leads to intolerable light pollution for people living in the vicinity, all they need to do is move house.

The millions/billions this would cost of course would be of no cost to tax payers but a charge levied (light vehicle excise duty) to every cyclist fully recovering the costs, or a surcharge on home food delivery - the worst culprits.

lets see how long it take the cycling mafia to crawl out of the woodwork whinging that they would be hard done by.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 03:17 AM

Somebody pass me the popcorn… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 03:23 AM

Bit extreme, SPB. As a responsible cyclist for more than 60 years (well, OK, at 10 I may not have been too responsible) it is my duty to point out that over 99% of road deaths and serious injuries are caused by drivers and an average of 5 people a day are killed on our roads. Note also that, while cyclists are often killed and injured by drivers, I have never heard of a driver being killed by a cyclist. Yes, OK, I agree that irresponsible cyclists (I call them "lycra warriors") are a danger, they are more at risk of injuring or killing themselves than of harming someone else. Private cars being banned makes much more sense on many levels :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Rain Dog
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 03:49 AM

"If they dn;t like it, then don't blame society, just blame the handful of idiot cyclists who have stuffed things up for them."

The same point could be made against car drivers, motor cyclists and pedestrians. The idiot minority have a lot to answer for.

How would I get to the pub? Pogo stick? Space hopper? The journey back might well be a bit more difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:13 AM

codswallop

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:19 AM

cycling is good exercise and good for the health[unless you get run over ,by a car jumping a traffic light]
SPB, You encountered a particular example of idiocy , you cannot generalse from the particular.
we understand and appreciate your leniency, not wanting to put the offenders in the stocks or have them horse whipped, you are a kind man and priti patel would probably love to do the whipping at your command

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:29 AM

One, two, three, four, five
Once I caught a fish alive


DC

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:37 AM

I've a better idea SPB, why not set up Machine-Gun nests on Street corners and shoot the buggers!!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:49 AM

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 06:58 AM

Since I gave up cycling to work (twelve-to-fifteen miles twice a day was Not On), I've noticed that Herself, whenever we're in the car, has become a born-again cycle hater. In particular, two or more lycra louts, dawdling line abreast in full gossip mode, has her reaching for the swear box before she's changed down to first gear.

I blame the road layout clowns, seem to think that a line of paint in an already-narrow road is a barrier to ingress of cars.* But that's cheaper than constructing a separate cycle track, which the lycra louts tend to ignore anyway, as those that exist are often rim-bollockingly lumpy.

* A subsidiary trick is to wait until an interesting junction where one really could use some help, then the track disappears: "You're on your own, sunshine."

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 07:19 AM

I just think a little tolerance and care on both sides is necessary. There are bad cyclists and bad vehicle drivers ( including drunken ones )

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 10:37 AM

Would making cycling illegal have the desired effect?

Except for a few approved trials, it is illegal to ride an electric scooter on public roads or in other public spaces in the UK but there are plenty whizzing around at great speed both amongst traffic and in pedestrian areas. Not many riders seem to wear any safety gear.

There are already laws in place covering the use of cycles. What is required is that the existing law is properly enforced.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 11:42 AM

the prisons are full and they are releasing convicted criminals, they are hardly going to make cycling illegal sand enforce the law, and send cyclists to prison for cycling

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 12:03 PM

Get off my lawn!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 12:10 PM

Enforcing the law doesn't have to result in a prison sentence. Fines or confiscation of cycles would suffice.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 01:01 PM

Dunno about where you are but the rules of the road don't seem to be applied to anyone round Bradford!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 01:15 PM

There is no cycling community just as there is no motoring or pedestrian community. One cyclist is not responsible for another's behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 02:19 PM

"24 hour policing at every set of traffic lights in the UK"
you have a great sense of humour

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 02:34 PM

We have boy racers driving their cars at speed up and down our road daily. It's the only road nearby without speed humps and without a 20mph limit. What's especially annoying is that they seem to tune their engines to be very noisy.Are these grounds enough to ban private cars? Or make them solely responsible for funding the NHS?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 03:00 PM

You don't seem to have the same proliferation of takeway delivery drivers that we have in Acton, a danger to themselves other road users and pedestrians. I can;t remember the last time as saw an electric bike rider having to dodge out of the way of a pedestrians walking behind them at high speed. A blanket ban would be far easier to implement than trying to root out the individual cyclists who are a danger. Alternatively, local authoriotes could be tasked with operting traffic lights manually and not turn pedstrian lights, and the vehivle lights for the other directions green until they are certain that cyclists are going to stop at the red lights. Alternatively having football stadium intensity fllod lights at and approaching traffic lights would compensate for cyclists not bothering with lights.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 04:06 PM

Delivery riders are exploited by their (non-)employers: paid a pittance, fined if they take too long, and sacked if customers complain their pizza is cold. If the delivery riders were employees, and their employers had a financial incentive to ensure they rode safely and obeyed traffic regulations, then you might see a change.

Until then, be a bit understanding, and drive super-carefully in the evening. If you have home food deliveries yourself, tip them well. And if you're selecting a restaurant, avoid ones which do deliveries because they'll fulfill the take-away orders before serving you!

Unrelated, but here in rural Kent I've noticed that drivers have become more careful when passing cyclists and less likely to hoot when I wait to overtake. Motorists understand the effect of potholes to a cyclist!

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 04:24 PM

You will be joining Reform next SPB. Just changing three words in your rant gives us one of their speeches

"Until the Islam community gets its act together, Islam must be made ilegal. If they dn;t like it, then don't blame society, just blame the handful of idiot Muslims who have stuffed things up for them."

Not nice is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 05:26 PM

SPB sorry this is totally ridiculous, you are suggesting 24 hour police at traffic lights , so police presence is diverted from rioters, criminals,murderers etc for in your opinion the much more serious 3 cyclists who was responsible for you having a harrowing lift home from WLTUC.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 07:18 PM

I agree, Dick. Totally ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 07:22 PM

I've been hit by a car while on my bicycle and have been hit by a bike while in my car and I much prefer the former. I say ban automobiles.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 07:24 PM

That should read "I much prefer the latter." The meds are kicking in.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Helen
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 08:19 PM

Scrambled your brain, eh gilly?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 08:36 PM

Like a Western Omelet.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 02:39 AM

Making cycling illegal would work as well as it does with e-scooters (which are already subject to the same licence/insurance rules as motor vehicles, but do you know of any E-scooter riders who have a licence and insurance) - that is, not at all.

And the suggestion that ‘all cyclists are bad guys’ is as unrealistic as the idea touted around by cynophobes that ‘no dog-owners ever picks up their dog’s shit’. Neither are even close to being true.

Sorry, SPB, I usually agree with you, but this is a barmy idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 03:33 AM

i think he might be having a joke with us, it certainly gave me a good laugh

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 05:21 AM

I expect Plaistow in London has just as many delivery riders as Acton. Yes, they are a bloody nuisance and ignore the rules of the road but they haven't caused any deaths so far as I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 06:09 AM

I am convinced that no-one read the original post properly. Nowhere did I mention prison sentences.

Also in response to be taking additional care while driving, my first sentence makes it clear that I was boing given a lift home, but I admit I failed to mention that I was sitting on the back seat in case anyone is assuming it is a dual control vehicle. Also now that I have free use of public transport in London and next year free bus travel across the UK, I have no interest in incurring the expense of owning a motor vehicle.

The driver was not drunk, she drank a glass of apple juice and a cup of black coffee.

The poor wages of delivery cyclists is irrelevant, "I am not paid enough to obey the law" would not be a defense in court.

Those who read my comments in other posts would know that cyclists riding on pavements with no due care to the safety of pedestrians is a bug bear on mine and will always be until the cycling community gets its act together.

When I posted this, I was still shaken by the near miss and the dangerous behaviour of three cyclists; seeing two more jump the next set of red lights was the camel breaker fortunately we were well behind them so it didn't directly affect us- it was not a case of the lights had just changed, they were red well before the cyclist got to them,and the car I was in hadn't just started turning, but was well into the manoeuvre.

When I was at junior school, those who had a bike did cycling proficiency, though I didn't start cycling until I was 16 and missed out on that, I was pretty well versed with the highway code already, and I continued with the same bike for more than 20 years until one of the pedals fell off!

Anyway, bad cycling is a plague where I live and is now seems to be the norm, thus my subject was a deliberate 'Reductio Ad Absurdum' as where the extreme alternatives offered is cyclists want to have everything their own way. Just to address the balance I did suggest other Reductio Ad Absurdum alternatives.

I do take offence to the straw man argument of this being compared with right wing extremist narrative. The message is about johnson-style exceptionalism. "I have a bike, so I will do what I want, and s***w the rest of you." Wanting cyclist to adopt societal norms and show consideration to others can not possibly be compared with anti-Islamist rhetoric.

So to end on a philosophical note, is the Social Contract such that if we wish to live in a society where cycling is encouraged or tolerated then non-cyclists have a duty to accept the risks of bad and inconsiderate cycling and personally take responsibility for accommodating their behaviours?

Also readers may want to reflect that is events had panned out differently -if the car was two foot further forward - and ended up in a tragedy, and it had been one of their own families ending up in a morgue, would they have the same tolerance of the standards of cycling?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 06:34 AM

SPB - No straw man. You state quite clearly that the actions of a minority should result in all cyclists being banned off the road. My comparison with the same argument about Muslims was to highlight how ludicrous that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 06:54 AM

I repeat, there is no cycling community.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 07:06 AM

On that basis the same arguments should have been made against the restrictions of ownership of firearms in the UK following the actions of a single person: Thomas Hamilton.

You seem to be conflating humans rights (the right to follow and practice one's faith, right to safety and asylum) which are universal, and liberties which are based on what is acceptable as part of the right to be part of a society. Many liberties have been withdrawn e.g. owning slaves, foxhunting with dogs, smoking in public places, other liberties have been removed due to rights taking precedence: eg, employment discrimination.

Cycling is not a right, it is a liberty and cannot be conflated with removing ones right to ones faith and as such society reserves the right to deny liberties if it is for the grater good of society. The only argument is whether removing a liberty is fair or unfair, and that is down to (a) our elected parliaments to decide and (b) whether the electorate would vote for a parliament that is committed to making that decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 07:27 AM

Cycling is done by choice.

Believing in your own particulat invisible friend is a choice.

There is no difference. Apart from Cycling has killed far fewer people than religion.

I am not conflating anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 08:05 AM

Thomas Hamilton killec 16 children and a teacher with a gun. I don't recall anyone doing anything similar with a bike.

What this seems to boil down to, SPB, is a poor choice of words. We seem to agree on many things, including politics and the fact that some cyclists are idiots. I admire your passion when it comes to politics but in this case you have spoiled your case by letting a heartfelt but ridiculous argument affect your credibility.

There is no logic whatdover in saying that cycling MUST (your caps) be made illegal. Come up with something sensible instead. I can start you off with making sure that bikes have a visible registration mark, like cars, so that the owner can be traced when caught breaking the law on camera.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 08:20 AM

UDHR: Article 18: Everyone has the freedom to think or believe what they want, including the right to religious belief. We have the right to change our beliefs or religion at any time, and the right to publicly or privately practise our chosen religion, alone or with others.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 08:45 AM

Yes, everyone does have the right to believe what they want. They do not have the right to inflict that belief on others or ban beliefs that do not concur with theirs.

My religion is cycling. All hail the great cog in the sky.

See, I can be just as daft as you when I put my mind to it :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 09:23 AM

article 18 protects us from having religious (beliefs) imposed on us.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 09:27 AM

anyway I've had my rant on Sunday, and this could become a very long thread on rights vs liberties and social contract which might be an interesting subject for a more philosophical discussion, shall we jest agree that this thread should just now be laid to rest?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 09:47 AM

SPB: Also now that I have free use of public transport in London and next year free bus travel across the UK,

Where do you get that 'free use'?
The pass for pensioners living in England only gives free travel on buses in England. Similarly the Welsh pass only applies to Wales.
You may be a little disappointed when you get your pass (assuming that it is age related)

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 09:55 AM

SPB you cannot use your free bus pass anywhere but england take heed of the words of Tebbitt YOU MAY need to get on your bike when you want to go to Wales.OR Scotland or northern ireland

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 09:59 AM

No! I demand my right to worship the great Cog by wearing lycra and riding two abreast. Your petty red light rules infringe on my right to practice my religion as I see fit :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 11:57 AM

ok England then.   I am not very likely to go on a day trip to Scotland or Wales anyway. At the moment I am restricted to the TFL network and mainline trains within the TFL boundary zones as I only have a 60+ Oyster, but even that is enough for me not to need to own a car in London.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Rain Dog
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 11:59 AM

Four wheels good, 2 wheels baaaaaaaad?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 11:59 AM

In the mean time, Dave, do not let me keep you from your congregational church of "Bicycle Repair Man"

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 12:01 PM

If god had meant us to ride/drive he would not have given us feet and bus passes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 12:03 PM

can I go now?

Subject: RE: BS: Cycling MUST be made illegal in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 24 - 12:46 PM

On yer bike!