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Tune Req: help me identify the tunes

GUEST 12 Oct 24 - 07:14 AM
Jack Campin 12 Oct 24 - 10:22 AM
Helen 12 Oct 24 - 06:34 PM
GUEST,op 12 Oct 24 - 08:27 PM
GUEST 12 Oct 24 - 08:30 PM
GUEST,op 12 Oct 24 - 09:04 PM
Helen 12 Oct 24 - 10:27 PM
Helen 17 Oct 24 - 06:48 PM
Jack Campin 21 Oct 24 - 11:21 AM
Helen 21 Oct 24 - 01:44 PM
Jack Campin 24 Oct 24 - 04:38 AM
Helen 24 Oct 24 - 05:28 AM
GUEST,Steve Shaw 24 Oct 24 - 07:44 AM
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Subject: Tune Req: help me identify Scottish tunes
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 07:14 AM

I came across a youtube channel, some guy composes folk metal, i liked the melodies, contacted him, asked if the stuff was original by him, he said 'not much' and that for instance in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icHbuQA_bho composition consists of Scottish traditional tunes but he already forgot their original titles and sources. I remembered about this forum thought somebody might help identify?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 10:22 AM

I don't recognize anything. The strathspey after about 5 minutes in sounds like it ought to be a known tune but I think it's like similar Scottish-influenced bits by John Surman, Peter Maxwell Davies and Lyell Cresswell - fire off a descending pentatonic line in a strathspey rhythm and hope.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: Helen
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 06:34 PM

Interesting video, Guest Date: 12 Oct 24 - 07:14 AM. One of my favourite songs is Nothing Else Matters by Metallica which not only sounds good when they perform it but also sounds beautiful on Celtic harp.

Sorry, but I can't identify the tune on your video link.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: GUEST,op
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 08:27 PM

i'm the op. by now i actually guessed that the tunes in the tracks on that channel are original by the author, whatever he said to me, and even guessed who he is, but that's another story.

and yes i too find the second comment in this thread very unusual for mudcat forum. i used to go here like 10 years ago when studied english ballads as a hobby, and don't remember such vibes here

The rude content added no useful content so was removed, as was the response. Helen's useful answer still appears. Anonymous posts from trolls are best ignored then they can be removed without disturbing the rest of the posts. ---mudelf


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 08:30 PM

Ah Helen, you may be well meaning.. but this is likely a faker, who is desperate for some views. The story sounds dodgy and implausible and there is nothing identifiably authentic in the music. It's likely just someone using Mudcat to try and get a few views to their channel by raising some mythical query. It may well be AI created music, it may be real - it is real drivel. Very little is real these days, and it's difficult to believe anyone when there are so many scams. and people who want you to click on to their music out of desperation. Note the original poster is anonymous, and the videos had next to no views last time I looked. So I shall now bugger off, having given an opinion. If others want to waste time on a likely hoax, so be it.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: GUEST,op
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 09:04 PM

of course i can't prove that my story is real and i am not the maker of those tracks, but i wouldn't remember about this forum as a place to inquire if the stuff on youtube didn't sound authentic. some parts of the song on my link blatantly remind of famous tunes like 'Haughs O' Cromdale' and i still believe much of the stuff by that guy might be borrowed from the authentic repertoire. in another track he sent to me there 'Bleacher lassie o' Kelvinhaugh' is evidently recognizable. https://vocaroo.com/15qpRPJJrlPt


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: Helen
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 10:27 PM

The idea of mixing the DNA of different music genres is interesting to me. This mix of Celtic and heavy metal brings to my mind the online music videos I stumbled on which mixes Mediaeval music styles with modern pop songs.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: Helen
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 06:48 PM

On the topic of mixing up genres, one of my favourite examples is by The Pogues, in The Broad Majestic Shannon

The musical interlude starts at 1 min 20 but then it changes at 1 min 30 to a brief part of the tune Give Me Your Hand, aka Tabhair Dom Do Lámh composed in the early 1600's by the blind Irish harpist Rory Dall O'Cahan, and performed by The Chieftains on the second video.

The fun thing about the song by The Pogues is that the first words sung after that tune are "Take my hand". Very clever!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 11:21 AM

The Gaelic title of that tune was a late 18th century invention. It was originally titled
In Latin, "Da mihi manum".


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: Helen
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 01:44 PM

Thanks Jack. Give Me Your Hand aka Give Me Your Hand, eh?! LOL

This Wiki article says that Captain Franicis O'Neill stated that it was Latinised later rather than originally named in Latin, and I would be surprised if it wasn't first named in Gaelic:

Tabhair Dom Do Lámh

"Captain Francis O'Neill suggests

"Proud and spirited, he resented anything in the nature of trespass on his dignity. Among his visits to the houses of Scottish nobility, he is said to have called at Eglinton Castle, Ayrshire. Knowing he was a harper, but being unaware of his rank, Lady Eglinton commanded him to play a tune. Taking offence at her peremptory manner, Ó Catháin refused and left the castle. When she found out who her guest was her ladyship sought and effected a speedy reconciliation. This incident furnished a theme for one of the harper’s best compositions. 'Tabhair Damh do Lámh,' or 'Give Me Your Hand!' The name has been latinized into 'Da Mihi Manum.' The fame of the composition and the occasion which gave birth to it reaching the ear of King James the Sixth, induced him to send for the composer. Ó Catháin accordingly attended at the Scottish court, and created a sensation."


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Oct 24 - 04:38 AM

Chances are O'Neill made almost all of that up.

There is no evidence for an earlier title than the Latin one. Since any educated Irishman would have known some Latin, why wouldn't they have used it?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: Helen
Date: 24 Oct 24 - 05:28 AM

We might never know, but also all of Irish harper Turlough O'Carolan's tunes were named in Gaelic, as far as I know.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: help me identify the tunes
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 24 - 07:44 AM

If you appreciate the mixing-up of different genres, you'd have enjoyed a lot of the late-lamented Ron Kavana's music. The very best example of it on his records was the album Galway to Graceland, which, sadly, hardly got out of the traps. Lots of other good stuff too. He was a friend of the Pogues and would have been on The Irish Rover had he not had to babysit. You don't have to like him and his stuff but I love it, even though also I love "more pure" traditional Irish music...


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