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Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)

and e 15 Jan 25 - 11:04 AM
cnd 15 Jan 25 - 11:41 AM
Lighter 15 Jan 25 - 12:28 PM
and e 15 Jan 25 - 01:16 PM
Lighter 15 Jan 25 - 01:48 PM
and e 15 Jan 25 - 07:40 PM
and e 15 Jan 25 - 08:55 PM
and e 15 Jan 25 - 10:19 PM
and e 17 Jan 25 - 07:13 AM
cnd 17 Jan 25 - 08:02 AM
Lighter 17 Jan 25 - 08:21 AM
and e 17 Jan 25 - 09:12 AM
Lighter 17 Jan 25 - 10:26 AM
GUEST,Jon Bartlett 18 Jan 25 - 08:15 PM
GUEST 18 Jan 25 - 08:36 PM
and e 19 Jan 25 - 10:10 AM
Lighter 19 Jan 25 - 11:29 AM
and e 19 Jan 25 - 11:31 AM
Lighter 19 Jan 25 - 12:14 PM
and e 19 Jan 25 - 12:24 PM
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Subject: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 15 Jan 25 - 11:04 AM

Red Light Saloon

Well I arrived in Denver and hour too soon
And I thought I'd stop off at the Red Light Saloon
I boldly walked up in and sat down at a bar
And a dirty old chippy said have a cigar

I took that cigar and sat down in a chair
The dirty old chippy came right over there
Well she tickled my whiskers and ruffled my hair
And she made old John Henry stand up in the air

I stood from my chair and threw down my cigar
And said baby lets have a round somewhere
The place that she showed me was right up the stairs
And the thing that she showed me was covered with hairs

She wrapped her legs round me and wiggled her ass
And she made old John Henry go off with a blast
Well hotsey and totsey -- a flower in bloom
A fuck for buck at the Red Light Saloon

Feb 5, 1958. Transcribed from a reel to reel tape in the Kenneth Goldstein collection.


Listen online: https://egrove.olemiss.edu/kgreels_unk/54/


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: cnd
Date: 15 Jan 25 - 11:41 AM

I have two recordings of this song, both by Oscar Brand; one on Back-Room Ballads (CMS Records CMS-101) from 1949, and the other from American Drinking Songs (Riverside Records, RLP 12-630) from 1956. I have my scholarly qualms with Brand, but as a musician and finder of material, he's hard to rival. Both recordings are materially identical, except the last two verses. Unfortunately, Back-Room Ballads album has no liner notes whatsoever; American Drinking Songs reports the following:
In Minneapolis, many years ago, a bar-side acquaintance sang me pieces of this favorite lumberjack song. I filled in the gaps later on and thought I was very daring. But, in England, Alan Lomax told me that I was singing a bowdlerized version of what he considered America’s rowdiest song. I would have gotten the real verses, but we ran out of Guinness and the party broke up early.

Below is my transcription of the 1949 recording.

RED LIGHT SALOON
(Oscar Brand)

It was early one morning I walked into town
And in sweet recreation, I wandered around
When I spied a hotel in the late afternoon
That was sporting a sign, said The Red Light Saloon

So I boldly walked in and stepped up to the bar
And a pretty young maiden said "Have a cigar"
Well I took that cigar with a "Thanks for the boon"
But she said "That's our way in the Red Light Saloon"

Then she mussed up my hair and sat down on my knee
Saying "You are a lumberjack, that I can see"
Saying "You are a logging man, that we all know
For your muscles are hard from your head to your toe"

She proceeded to try if my muscles was right
And I smoked that cigar without striking a light
And my head starting rising just like a balloon
From the treatment I got at the Red Light Saloon

It was early one morning, I bid her goodbye
She waved from the window with a tear in her eye
So I did not discover til next afternoon
That my wallet was still in the Red Light Saloon

Well I cursed that young maiden til the forest turned blue
And with women and whiskey I swore I was through
But I knew as I swore I'd give my fortune
Just to be back again in the Red Light Saloon

/ / / / / /
And finally, the two slightly different verses from the 1956 recording, sang in place of the 5th and 6th verses above.

It was early one morning, I bid her goodbye
She waved from the window with a tear in her eye
So I did not discover til the middle of June
I was carrying a keepsake of the Red Light Saloon

Well I cursed that young lady til the Heaven turned blue
And with whiskey and women I swore I was through
But with all of my swearing, I'd give my fortune
Just to be back in bed at the Red Light Saloon


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Jan 25 - 12:28 PM

Roud 9424. Good find of a rarely reported song. To judge from other versions, everything after Brand's stanza 3 is probably his owncomposition - or his informant's!

Newspaper ads and accounts mention a great many “Red Light Saloons” from Boston to San Bernardino between 1853 and 1900 (where I stopped looking).

Brand recorded the song at least four times: on "Backroom Ballads" (Chesterfield CMS-101, 10”, 1949) ; on "American Drinking Songs" (Riverside RLP 12-630, 1956) ; on "Oscar Brand Sings for Adults" (ABC-Paramount: ABC 388, 1961), and “'Live' on Campus" (Apex Al-7, 1970), Yet it does not appear in his recorded BS&BB series, despite its inclusion as 6 stzs. w/melody & piano acc. in the songbook that accompanies the recordings; Brand's head note:

“The lumberjacks who depleted our great forests worked twenty-five or more hours daily. One day a year they would visit the nearest settlement which usually consisted of one general store and one saloon, with rooms upstairs. I learned the song from an ex-logger in Minneapolis who claimed he had written it. (Another tall tale from the woods.)”

Newspaper ads and accounts mention a great many “Red Light Saloons” from Boston to San Bernardino between 1853 and 1900 (where I stopped searching). FWIW:

Detroit Free Press (Dec. 13, 1867), p. 1:

“Jennie Jenks, proprietress of the ‘Red Light’ saloon on Jefferson avenue, Louisa Jones, Frank Brundage, and several others who were recently indicted by the Grand Jury for keeping houses of ill fame, were arraigned at the Recorder’s Court yesterday.”


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 15 Jan 25 - 01:16 PM

Red Light Saloon

I arrived in Muskegon the tenth of July
For connections to make with a train I did find.

Got left in Muskegon and that was my doom
When I paid a short visit to the Red Light Saloon

Oh the Red Light Saloon in Muskegon I walked to the bar
A red headed maiden sold me a cigar

I took my cigar and sat down in the chair
And this red headed maiden come tripin' and skippin' 'round there.

Oh she sat in my lap. She paid with my mustache and mussed up my hair
Oh joy-boy old Ruben went up in the air.

Oh we tripped up the stairway a bedroom to find
I done shucked my cloths and she pulled down the bind.

Oh laid there a-puffin and a-panting a while
She says, "Get off me you damned hobo. You've got me with child."

Oh she washed off my dodger and scrubbed out her cunt.
And she went right downstairs for some more jazzing to hunt

If you should meet this fair maiden when roses to bloom
She'll jazz for two dollars in Muskegon at the Red Light Saloon.

August 1941. Transcribed from the singing of Bill Neupert, Schofield, Wisconsin.



Listen online: https://digital.library.wisc.edu/1711.dl/IHADDZ2CK76A68A


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Jan 25 - 01:48 PM

Doerflinger, "Shantymen and Shantyboys" (1951), expurgated from the singing of Willis Norrad, Norrad's Bridge, near Boiestown, New Brunswick:

"A trip down to Bangor, the Fourth of July,
To make my connection with a train I did try.
The train it being late, as you all will know soon,
I was forced to take a trip to the Red Light Saloon.

I boldly walked in and stepped up to the bar,
When a saucy young damsel said. ‘Have a cigar!’
A cigar I did take, in a chair I sat down,
When a saucy young damsel came tripping around.

She boldly came over, sat down on my knee,
Saying, ‘Jack, you’re a woodsman, that I plainly see.’
Saying, ‘Jack, you’re a woodsman, and that we all now,
Your muscle is hard from your head to your toe!’. . ."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 15 Jan 25 - 07:40 PM

The Red Light Saloon

I landed in Rawlins and nothing to do,
So I took a short walk to the Red Light Saloon.
I opened the door, stepped up the the bar,
Says a dancing young beauty, "Will you have a cigar?"

I took the cigar and sat down in a chair,
'Twas not very long till she crept around there.
She stepped up a-smilin'; sat down on my knee,
"You are a gay fellow, and this I can see.

"You are a cowpuncher, and this I do know,
Your muscles are hard from your head to your toe."
She twisted my mustache, she smoothed down my hair;
My "ellick" grew hard; it did, I declare.

I got up from the chair, the cigar I threw down,
Says I to this fair one, "Let's go have a round."
She got up a-smilin', led the way up the stair,
The stairs they were covered with those draperies most rare.

Her room, she led to way to,
She pulled down the curtains, and at it we flew.
I pulled out my hobo, and I gave her a shove,
Such glorious feelings from the Power above.

She lay there contented, looked up with a smile,
Said, "Up you young cowboy, you've got me with child."
She's a dancing young beauty; she's a rose in full bloom,
And she fucks for five dollars in the Red Light Saloon.

1994. The Castration of the Strawberry Roan: Cowboy Songs for
Impolite Company
cassette by XXX Wrangerls.   Text & tune derived
from Guy Logsdon's 1989 book The Whorehouse Bells Were Ringing.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 15 Jan 25 - 08:55 PM

Red-Light Saloon

Come all you young fellows I'll sing you a song
Take your attention it won't take me long
I'll sing you a song while fortune on me fell
While taking a stroll to the Royce [?] hotel.

It was in the last days of the month of July
With an extra connection with a train I did try
While at Muskegon I'd left there to doom
And pay a last visit to the Red Light Saloon

I boldly walked in and stepped up to the bar
And a pretty young damsel says, "Have a cigar."
I took a cigar and sat down in a chair
Finally this maiden came tripling 'round there.

She boldly walked up and sat on my knee
Saying, "You are a fine lad and that I can see
You a shantyboy for that I well know
For your muscle is hard from your head to your toe.

Then she played with my mustache and curled in my hair
She was not ugly I vow and declare [?]
I boldly stood up; Laying my cigar down
Said, "Modest fine one, we'll have a round.[?]

So she took me upstairs to her bedroom we went
The shutters were pulled down and at we went
I pulled out my dodger and gave it shove
A glorious feel from heaven above

I hold up back while my dodger did play
Then on her belly I panting did lay
She pulled at my mustache and on me did smile
Then you up-river bummer you've gotten me with child.

I slowly rolled off; The sweat it did roll down
To wash off my dodger she quickly few round
Some soap and some water to wash out her cunt
While tripling downstairs another victim to hunt

Come all you young fellows my song it is sung
If you ever a chance to Muskegon to run
Go seek this fair damsel; she's a rose full of rose [?]
She fucks for five dollars at the Red Light Saloon

August 27, 1940. Transcribed from the singing of John Christian, Coloma, Wisconsin.

Download here: https://digital.library.wisc.edu/1711.dl/NZRGIJ6I7CTHB8B


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 15 Jan 25 - 10:19 PM

Red Light Saloon

Come ladies and gents I'll sing you a song
Just give me your attention it won't take me long
It was of misfortune that to me did befall
By taking a trip to the noted White Hall

'Twas in the early month of July
To make connection with the train I did try
I was left at Muskegon and there I was doomed
To spend a few minutes in the Red Light Saloon

She boldly walked in and sat on my knee
Saying, "You a gay lad and that I can see
Yes you are a foundry boy that I well know
You're muscles are hard from your head to your toe.

[Singer hesitates]

I rowed up my back and my dodger did play
Then onto her breast I did panting did lay
She curled at my whiskers and on me did smile
Saying, "Upriver bummer you've got me with child."

Went I got through the sweat it poured down
To wash off my dodger she quickly pulled round
And with some cold water she sopped out her cunt
Went tripping upstairs some fresh victim to hunt

Now come all you kind friends my song by done
If ever Muskegon you changed for to run
Go search this fair damsel carousing full blown [?]
She'll fuck for two dollars in the Red Light Saloon

July 22, 1941. Transcribed from the singing of Henry Humphries
[Humphrey], Hancock Town of Colburn, Wisconsin, by Robert F. Draves.
The fourth verse is missing.


Download here: https://digital.library.wisc.edu/1711.dl/QLLKXUOFWWOVX8Q


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 17 Jan 25 - 07:13 AM

Red Light Saloon

I stuck down in Rallens with nothing to do
So I took a short walk to the Red Light Saloon
I opened the door; stepped up to the bar
Said a dancing young beauty, "Would you like a cigar?"

I took the cigar; sat down in my chair
It wasn't too long 'til she crept around there
Stepped up a-smiling; sat down twixt my knees
You are a big fellow; yeah this I can see.

You are cow puncher and this I do know
Your muscles are hard from your head to your toe
She twisted my mustache and smooth down my hair
I felt quite a stir way down you know where

We went up the stairs; she kicked off her shoes
She pulled down the curtains and at it we flew
She bucked and she rocked; she drove me insane
I loved her and left her, and hopped on my train

So fellows if you go walk down in Kansas
And you feel a stir way down in your pants-es.
She's a dancing young beauty -- a rose in full bloom
And she fucks for five bucks in the Red Light Saloon.
Oh yeh she fucks for five bucks in the Red Light Saloon.

August 29, 2018. The Sweaty Already String Band. Track 7
of the live performance at "Spirit". City & state not listed.


Download here: https://archive.org/details/SweatyAlreadyStringBand2018-08-29.BirdcloudSpiritPgh


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: cnd
Date: 17 Jan 25 - 08:02 AM

This website (click) credits the song to "Trad/O[scar] Brand" and notes that Spirit was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. (Spirit appears to be an event space/bar/restaurant)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Jan 25 - 08:21 AM

"Rallens" is doubtless Rawlins, Wyoming (as in Logsdon).

Saturday Evening Post (Dec. 2, 1911) [ref. to Rocky Mountain West cowboys in 1888]:

“ ‘It ain’t decent, that’s why.” ‘O-ho! It ain’t decent! Well now – I’ve heard you sing The Red Light Saloon a thousand ----’ ‘Never mind what I done.’”


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 17 Jan 25 - 09:12 AM

The song places the "Rallens" in Kansas... But perhaps this was done as
a re-write to rhyme with pants-es.

As far as I know, Brand never had a text like this.   Perhaps more
"folk" remixing and having to credit someone -- to cover one's butt.
Better to pay royalty than be sued.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Jan 25 - 10:26 AM

Agreed.

It would be interesting to know where they got this - and how much they may have "altered" it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: GUEST,Jon Bartlett
Date: 18 Jan 25 - 08:15 PM


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 25 - 08:36 PM

I was bound for Wautegan on the fourth of July
To make connection fore the train I did try
To be left to Wautegan was to be my sad doom
So I took a wee walk to the Red Light Salon.

I boldly stepped in, walked up to the bar
A pretty young maiden said, "Have a cigar."
The cigar I did take and I pulled up my chair
That pretty young maiden came flirtin' round there.

She pulled at my whiskers, she pulled at my hair:
Reuben got made and he stood in the air.
The chair I pushed back, my cigar I threw down,
"Pretty o\young maiden, let's go out around."

She led me the way up a long line of stair
To a room that was pictured in curtains so rare.
With the window wide open and the curtains pulled down,
All naked in bed the maiden I found.

We wriggled and friggled and wriggled some more,
Wriggled and friggled till my strength it gave o'er
She looked at my face with an innocent smile
"Get off, you big bastard, you'll have me with child."

She quickly arose to slip on her gown
To wash up old Reuben she flew around
With a basin of warm water to sponge out that cunt
She went trippin' downstairs more stiff pricks to hunt.

So come all you young fellows who ramble and roam
To be left in Wautegan will be your sad doom
But there's a fair maiden with cheeks in full bloom
She fucks for ten bucks in the Red Light Saloon.

from the singing of Luigi del Puppo, Nelson, BC, 18 August 1970, collected by Phil Thomas. Item 070, PJT Coll., Sound Archives, Royal BC Museum, Victoria, BC

Jon Bartlett


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 19 Jan 25 - 10:10 AM

From the kitchen come clattering
noises. The old cook, stiff from his
unusual efforts and moving pain-
fully, is mixing coffee in a wash-boiler
--strong black coffee that curls your
hair. And he was a flunky making
toast, great thick slices of scorched
bread. he calls toast a city fancy,
and he wants to do his best. We
hear him singing a hymn of thanks
as he stirs the coffee. It is a ribald
doggerel from Maine, "The Red
Light Saloon"--the only song he
knows.

September 1926. "Fire in the Bush: When the Loggers' Donkey-Engine Screeches
Through the Night" by Stewart H Holbroook. in The Century Magazine. Vol. 112, No. 5. p 575


See here: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Century/wFUiAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22RED%20LIGHT%20SALOON%22%20song%20OR%20poem&pg=PA575&printsec=frontcover

Earliest reference to the song that I can find.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jan 25 - 11:29 AM

Thanks for posting that, Jon. It's the first version from Canada. Nor does the song appear in any military songbook I know of.

An earlier reference:

York [Pa.] Daily (Dec. 6, 1907): “It must be admitted that the difficulty lies in finding those [‘cow puncher songs’] ‘fit for publication.’ Many of them, like ‘The Red Light Saloon,’ are exceedingly frank in expressing the opinions and elemental desires of the animal man. The songs that won most applause of nights on the ‘round up’ wouldn’t look well in print. But…a few…are proper enough.”


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 19 Jan 25 - 11:31 AM

Ballew threw back his head and began to yowl a song.
While I was walking down the street,
All down the street of San Sabo,
I met a lit-tul- filly neat
Who closed at me her eye-o,
Who winked at me her eye-o.

Of course that is the most respectable verse of the ballad
And sang, balancing the stool with his feet on a bunk, his
nose tilted toward the ceiling. Murray listened with a sort
of stern patience. He forced himself to resume his game,
but the cards would go wrong and tremble in his hand. At
the end of the fifth chorus he stood up and spoke in a level,
carefully civil tone:

"I wouldn't sing that song no more if I was you, Ballew."

Andy straightened on his stool. "Oh, indeed! You
wouldn't, hey? What for wouldn't you?"

"Because I wouldn't.   It ain't decent, that's why."

"Oh-ho! It ain't decent! Well, now--I've heard you
sing The Red Light Saloon a thousand ----"

"Never mind what I done. You let up on that."

December 11, 1911. The Saturday Evening Post. p.6

See here: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Saturday_Evening_Post/-1joP1rm4i8C?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=song+OR+sing+%22red+light+saloon%22&pg=RA8-PA6&printsec=frontcover


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jan 25 - 12:14 PM

The "message" of the field-collected versions is almost the exact opposite of Brand's.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 19 Jan 25 - 12:24 PM

The Red Light Saloon

It was early one morning I strolled into town,
For sweet recreation I surely was bound.
I spied a hotel in the mid afternoon,
It was sporting a sign, said the Red Light Saloon.

I boldly walked in and strolled up to the bar.
A pretty young damsel said, "Have a cigar."
I took that cigar with all thanks for the boon,
But she said, "That's our way in the Red Light Saloon."

Well, she mussed up my hair and sat down on my knee,
Saying, "You are a lumberjack, that we can see.
"You are a lumberjack, that we all know -
"For your muscle is hard from your head to your toe."

She proceeded to feel if my muscle was right,
And I smoked that cigar without striking a light.
My head it was rising just like a baloon
From the treatment I got at the Red Light Saloon.

Early next morning I bed her goodbye.
She waved from the door with a tear in her eye.
And I did not discover till sometime next June
That she'd given me a keepskae from the Red Light Saloon

Well, I cursed that young woman till the forest turned blue,
And the whisky and women I swore I was through.
But I knew as I swore that I'd give my fortune
Just to be back once more in the Red Light Saloon.


1975. Jerry Silverman's Folk Song Encyclopedia, Vol. 2.

Of course, derived from Oscar Brand.


See here: https://archive.org/details/folksongencyclop0002jerr_p7w5/page/173/mode/1up?q=saloon


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: and e
Date: 19 Jan 25 - 03:13 PM

The Red Light Saloon

I have a silk overcoat, costly & brown
And I think if no harm done in the lying it down
She lied down upon it to seek the divine
And I raised up the linen and the drapery so fine
Her two thighs extended between them I flew
And I near lost my sight in that light evening dew

Ed. McCormick, 56,
Newberry, Mich. heard
this when a boy, remembers now
only a fragment..

August-November, 1938. Alan Lomax Collection, Manuscripts,
Michigan, Wisconsin, and Illinois.


I improved the transcription that the Library of Congress provided.
Still uncertain in places. So corrections are welcome.


See here: https://www.loc.gov/resource/afc2004004.ms070205/?sp=9&st=text





Other bawdy items locating in the notebook. See here: https://www.loc.gov/resource/afc2004004.ms070205/?st=gallery


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Subject: RE: Origins: Red Light Saloon (Bawdy)
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jan 25 - 04:12 PM

Harry Peters, Folk Songs Out of Wisconsin (1977), prints a text "sung for Helene Stratman-Thomas by Henry Humphries, age seventy-six, Hancock, Wisconsin; by John Christian, Coloma, Wisconsin, and by Bill Neupert, age fifty-three, Schofield, Wisconsin, in 1940-41,"

Yet only the first five, almost innocuous, stanzas are collated from these performances. The final two are taken straight from Oscar Brand.

James F. Leisy's Folk Song Abecedary (1996) prints a six-stanza version "pieced together with the help of Jim McDaniel, an outdoorsman from Minnesota." It's much like Brand's, and the two concluding stanzas are identical to it.


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