Folklore: Myths about English food

Subject: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 25 - 12:05 PM

There are a lot of jokes about the poor quality of English food. I believe this stems from the post WW2 era when rationing was still prevalent. I probably caught the tail end of that but did not really notice. Mind you, my Russian/Polish grandparents probably skewed my view as their table was always laden with all sorts of stuff! Anyhow, in more recent years, certainly since the 70s, I don't think the myths are at all justified. The range of cuisine in England is amazing and a lot of traditional English food itself has great depth of flavour, texture and variety. The few visitors from overseas that I have hosted have always been very complimentary on the food available in both eateries and shops. Not going anywhere with this really. Just thought I would bring it up :-D

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 Jan 25 - 12:55 PM

Just thought I would bring it up

An unfortunate choice of phrase in the context of food. ;-)

DC

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Jan 25 - 06:08 PM

I recall an interview in England with Jimi Hendrix,
who was making waves there, making himself known.
He was gracious and articulate for most of thee interview.
Then the interviewer asked him,
So what do you think of English food?

Hendrix was immediately at a loss for words,
all he could say was,
"Oh, maaaaaan ... "

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 25 - 06:35 PM

I noticed that, Doug, but decided to leave it as was :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 25 - 07:10 PM

Kidney pie is said to taste like urine but it actually tastes like cooked piss.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Jan 25 - 07:33 PM

I like British pub grub. We've got   an eatery here called The British Open Pub (it just now occurs to me that the Brits call the golf championship tournament simply The Open). It's owned and operated by a British couple and the food is outstanding, they feature fish and chips, various meat pies and pasties and Fuller on tap.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Neil D
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 01:00 AM

My mother had a tradition of serving a very traditional British Christmas dinner consisting of roast beef, Yorkshire pudding and mincemeat pie. She also made fruitcake in the fall so it would age a bit by Christmas (She would wrap the loaves up in foil with apple slices to keep them moist). One year I suggested making a fruitcake in a Bundt pan (remember them) and putting a candle in the middle for a centerpiece. That too became a tradition. She had an old handwritten recipe that her mom had gotten from an English neighbor when she lived in Canada. It was wonderful and put the lie to every bad fruitcake joke I've ever heard. I have carried on the tradition of the beef and Yorkshire pudding but I don't make the fruitcake because, sadly, that 100+ year old recipe was lost in a fire and I've never found another as good.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 03:43 AM

Never heard of a kidney pie, Don, but I have had many a steak and kidney pie. Never tasted cooked piss either so I cannot compare the two!

I prefer steak and kidney pudding which is the same filling as the pie but encased in a soft suet pastry and usually steamed.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 05:09 AM

I made some very nice Pea & Ham soup yesterday, I took it to my son's place yesterday evening.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 05:22 AM

The best fish and chips in the US is at the Dubliner across the street from the capitol building.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 06:33 AM

I haven't been there in more than 40 years but The Dubliner was one of my favorite watering holes, along with The Four Provinces of Ireland up on Connecticut Ave.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 06:39 AM

British rather than English, but does anybody else know about sticky toffee pudding?

One place British food went during WW2 was Malta. Most of it was horrible but their bread pudding was wonderful - seems to have died out back home.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 07:29 AM

Bread pudding is sold in our local baker’s shop, Jack. Luvly jubbly!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 08:04 AM

Cartmel Sticky Toffee pudding is the best and decidedly English :-) There are some wonderful Scottish, Irish and Welsh dishes too though

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 08:12 AM

My (half Welsh) Grandmother used to make bread pudding unlike any I have seen since. Unlike the bread and butter puds I see now where you can see distinct slices of bread, I think she used to crumb stale bread, mix it with mil(?) and dried fruit, then bake it. There was no semblance of sliced bread and it was more like a stiff custard. I must try and work out what she did and try it sometime

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 08:14 AM

I went in an Irish Bar in St Louis that advertised traditional fish and chips. When it came out it was fish goujons and crisps. Nowt like English or Irish fish and chips,

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Jan 25 - 08:25 AM

When I frequented it The Dubliner was more of a meat market than a fish market. :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 24 Jan 25 - 06:36 AM

You've done a taste comparison, Donuel :-) ? In any case, *steak* and kidney pie done right, and liver and onions (with bacon), are the food groups of the gods.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 25 - 03:54 AM

You forget tripe as well MaJoC :-D

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Jan 25 - 06:45 AM

Starting to understand why the sun finally set on the British Empire.
:-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jan 25 - 11:45 AM

”My (half Welsh) Grandmother used to make bread pudding unlike any I have seen since. Unlike the bread and butter puds I see now where you can see distinct slices of bread, I think she used to crumb stale bread, mix it with mil(?) and dried fruit, then bake it. There was no semblance of sliced bread and it was more like a stiff custard. I must try and work out what she did and try it sometime”

Bread Pudding, and Bread and Butter Pudding are two completely different things, Dave. They are often conflated…

Our local baker sells Bread Pudding, which is like a spicy, heavy cake - I love a slice with my afternoon cuppa.

We make Bread and Butter Pudding at home as a special Sunday dessert. Very yummy indeed with plenth of thick custard.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 27 Jan 25 - 05:51 PM

Very good Bread and Butter Pudding at the Ship Inn at Mawgan on the Lizard in Cornwall. It was as good as my mother used to make!

Robin

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jan 25 - 02:15 PM

I make bread pudding from a couple of old recipes I have around here, one from the 18th Century. No, I don't know how I got them.

With a caramel/bourbon sauce they are pretty darned good. I'll have to make some soon to use up some freezered bread.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 28 Jan 25 - 02:23 PM

Lancashire cheese is the best cheese there is. Crumbly, mild, tasty or extra tasty - the last to be eaten carefully.

And Lancashire hotpot takes some beating.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 28 Jan 25 - 02:40 PM

Totally agree about Lancashire cheese, Wallace chose second best with Wensleydale.

We had a really good look for decent cheese in France and found none.

Robin

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jan 25 - 03:25 AM

Totally agree about cheese. We have a theory that the further you get from Lancashire, the worse the cheese gets :-D

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jan 25 - 04:34 AM

I don’t think I’ve ever eaten Lancashire cheese. Mmmmm, think I’m gunna have to scratch that itch. Is it smooth or crumbly (not a fan of crumbly cheese even though, in my late teens, I worked in a cheese dairy where we made Cheshire)?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Jan 25 - 05:25 AM

Lancashire cheese is a thing of beauty.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_cheese

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jan 25 - 10:48 AM

BWM - The original is smooth and labelled 'creamy' or 'tasty' but most stuff you get in the supermarkets is the crumbly version which I am not that keen on. Singletons, Kirkhams or Dewlay are the ones to look out for as they are made within sight of Beacon Fell where it should originate from :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Charmion
Date: 30 Jan 25 - 12:26 PM

In French Canada. English food is said to be "la cuisine a l'eau" (that should be a with an accent, but this keyboard just won't), meaning that everything is boiled. My perception of English food from fewer than half a dozen visits is far more centred on the deep fryer.

The version of bread pudding I learned from my English working-class grandmother involves stale bread cut into half-inch cubes layered in a buttered baking dish and covered with custard (egg, sugar and cream beaten together, flavoured with cinnamon and/or nutmeg). Set the dish in a pan of water and bake at 350F until a knife comes out clean. For the gala version, line the bottom of the buttered dish with jam.

I haven't made bread pudding in decades.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 01 Feb 25 - 12:34 PM

So the Lancashire crumbly version can be made away from the Beacon Fell triangle? Interesting. I did not know that. Still, it's better than nowt. But yes, creamy and tasty are the ones to go far.

In my local Waitrose (I live down south) they can have two dozen varieties of smoked salmon but no Lancashire cheese. Barbarians.

Lancaster market (which, alas, no longer exists) had one stall that would sell the extra tasty from time to time. A little of that went a long way.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Charmion
Date: 01 Feb 25 - 02:46 PM

Crumbly Cheddar is made in Ontario, too. Very tasty stuff.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Feb 25 - 03:09 PM

"The version of bread pudding I learned from my English working-class grandmother involves stale bread cut into half-inch cubes layered in a buttered baking dish and covered with custard (egg, sugar and cream beaten together, flavoured with cinnamon and/or nutmeg). Set the dish in a pan of water and bake at 350F until a knife comes out clean. For the gala version, line the bottom of the buttered dish with jam."

Charmion - see my post of 27 Jan 25 - 11:45 AM. What you just described is Bread and Butter Pudding, except that the bread is usually cut in slices and buttered, then cut in half diagonally before layering in the dish/tin and covered with the custard.

Bread Pudding is a heavy, spicy cake, no custard, best sliced and eaten with a nice afternoon cup o'tea.

Those two dishes are frequently conflated...

Bread and Butter Pudding

Bread Pudding

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 25 - 03:41 AM

Hi Vincent. I don't know if it can be made elsewhere but suspect it is. This article from Wiki says that crumbly is more suitable for mass production.

"Lancashire is an English cow's-milk cheese from the county of Lancashire. There are three distinct varieties of Lancashire cheese. Young Creamy Lancashire and mature Tasty Lancashire are produced by a traditional method, whereas Crumbly Lancashire (more commonly known as Lancashire Crumbly within Lancashire) is a more recent creation suitable for mass production."

I picked up this from the same article -

"It is traditionally paired with Eccles cakes[citation needed] and Chorley cakes."

Now I want to try it with Chorley cakes! Or Charlie cakes as the Mrs calls them :-S With Eccles cakes though? Nah. Too sugary.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Feb 25 - 03:48 PM

Crumbly Lancashire cheese is indistinguishable from the Turkish "bag cheese" (tulum peyniri) used to make pide (baked split baguettes). The Turkish comes in a calfskin bag with the hair still on. The word "tulum" also means "bagpipe".

Ethnically one group Turkey and Lancashire have in common is the Alans, an Iranian people from South Ossetia and nearby. The Romans used them to garrison Lancashire and they had to pass through Anatolia on the way. The Caucasus is nearly the world's epicentre for cheese so maybe Lancashire/tulum cheese is an Alan thing?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Feb 25 - 04:51 PM

Well as usual I am the discordant note.

Seems to me if food poisoning was an Olympic event, England would lead the world.

I have been laid low by the crab in Filey; the whole family was farting excessively for a week after eating 'yeasty' scones in Bakewell (if ever a place was misnamed!); and this last Christmas day at our local pub I celebrated the birth of Our Lord with three of the most hideous courses known to man. Of course it cost a fortune.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Feb 25 - 03:17 AM

That's just you, Al. It's obviously personal :-D

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Feb 25 - 05:19 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbZkFc8JmVQ

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Feb 25 - 05:22 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGgCoD6S_M

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Feb 25 - 06:32 AM

I'd forgotted Bob's meat pie song. It's a cracker (food pun intended)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Feb 25 - 06:42 AM

Haven't had any bad experiences in Bakewell though neither the tart nor the pudding are my favourites.

Homity pie is terrific though.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Feb 25 - 07:53 AM

We’ve had several holidays staying in Bakewell, and we’ve always found the food standards very high. Speaking of Homity Pie, we’d never eaten it before, so we tried one from the bakery in Youlgreave and it was very nice indeed.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Feb 25 - 07:13 PM

Biggest mistake we ever made was to order a pizza with prawns on it in a restaurant in Buxton, Derbyshire. Couldn’t be much further from the sea! Smelled like they’d walked there! Called the waiter to send the offending dish back to the kitchen. “Chef says they’re fresh” - maybe were a few weeks ago? Were offered something else off the menu, but appetite was somewhat lacking by then!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 25 - 05:50 AM

If you go into a bakery in Bakewell do you just ask for a tart?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Michael
Date: 16 Feb 25 - 10:10 AM

Best not, they'll know you are a tourist: Ask for a pudding.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Feb 25 - 01:53 PM

Does that include Scottish, Manx, Cornish, Welsh, and food from the Channel Islands?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Feb 25 - 01:39 PM

I've never heard of homity pie, but based on it's name I'm tempted to invent a recipe for one.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 20 Feb 25 - 02:10 PM

I had homity pie in a vegan cafe in Rowsley, Derbyshire. The filling was delicious but the pastry was somewhere between cardboard and leather. I would like to try it again, as a non-vegan version, with proper pastry and real cheese.

DC

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Feb 25 - 03:49 PM

The best fish and chips i ever had, last week in Boston at Tates. Hand made chips lightly battered haddock cooked exquisitely. 9 .50

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Feb 25 - 11:12 PM

Yes if you have the tough start in life to be born in Boston, Tates Chip shop was one of the the few reasons to persist in breathing.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 24 Feb 25 - 11:19 AM

There's a dividing line in England, North-West to South-East, roughly coinciding with Watling Street; it separates what used to be Danelaw from the Saxons. Only to the North-East of this line can one get decent fish-and-chips.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Feb 25 - 01:16 PM

I'm always slightly bemused when people rave on about "Whitby Cod". There hasn;t been a commercial landing of cod in Whitby for around 25 years.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Feb 25 - 01:24 PM

Why would anyone rave on about cod from anywhere when they could be eating haddock. One of the best things about moving to the east coast from the North West was that "fish and chips" meant "haddock and chips" rather than "cod and chips".

DC

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Feb 25 - 06:12 PM

Can't fault your argument Dave, I would choose Haddock every time !!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Feb 25 - 06:13 PM

Sorry Doug !!!!!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Feb 25 - 04:12 AM

To each, his own. Fortunately, I like both cod and haddock so I’m happy. And, for that matter, I’m rather partial to a nice piece of Dogfish (a.k.a. ‘Rock Salmon’ or ‘Huss’) so I’m happy when visiting South Coast haunts too.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 25 Feb 25 - 05:26 AM

Herself can't stand dogfish, after having to dissect it for Biology at school: it makes her think of nematodes and the smell of not enough formalin. It distressed her more than somewhat that my late father did like rock salmon.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Feb 25 - 07:56 AM

Where I occasionally have my fish and chips they claim to serve Icelandic cod. It is excellent, can't say the same for the mushy peas.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 25 - 08:28 AM

The beer-battered cod fish and chips downtown is 3 inches thick.
Hercule Poirot can not hide his distaste for English food and drink.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 25 - 04:29 PM

Agathie Christie died 49 years ago, so her opinions via Poirot, are out dated

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Feb 25 - 11:00 PM

How do you explain baked beans on toast?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 02:00 AM

Easy - toast the bread while the baked beans are heating up on the stove. Butter the toast, put the hot beans on the toast. Brown sauce on the beans if you wish. Eat - yum!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 02:03 AM

Should have said that the beans have to be Heinz - substitute brands simply will not do.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 02:51 AM

Baked Beans on toast is an extremely cheap and efficient way of getting protein

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: BobL
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 03:16 AM

BB in Menuspeak: "A generous helping of tender oven-baked haricots smothered in a delicious sauce made with sun-ripened tomatoes and exotic spices, served on a doorstep of locally-baked fresh bread toasted to perfection."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 05:16 AM

@The Sandman - for once, we agree 100%! ;-)

@BobL - coffee came down my nose when I read that ‘Menuspeak’! :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 05:21 AM

Backwoodsman, at one time I would have agreed with you that the beans have to be Heinz, However, since the food police got them to cut down the sugar and salt content their beans are a mere shadow of the former quality.

These days I go for Batchelors or Branston.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 06:31 AM

I hope a side of Beano is a menu option over there.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 07:44 AM

Beano over here is a childs comic

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 07:58 AM

There is a bit on one of Celine's early books where, as an antisocial little git, he gets packed off to a school in England for a term in the early 1900s. After a trip on the cross channel ferry where most of the passengers get seasick in the most spectacular vomiting scene in world literature he arrives at the school determined to hate every minute of it and not wanting to speak a word of English. But he does go for cheese on toast. Nothing in French food could compare with that combination of melty pungency and and carbonized crumbliness.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 08:32 AM

Clapton made Beano, the comic. famous over here.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Myths about English food
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 Feb 25 - 01:20 PM

Grenade: I used to like baked beans, but then I grew up.

I remember reading a newspaper column in the late 1960s with the headline Beanz Meanz Silenz: it claimed that Heinz were attempting to produce a bean which didn't produce methane when digested. Whether anything came of that project, I know not.