Help with copyright Shipyard Apprentice UK

Subject: BS: help with copyright Shipyard Appren. UK
From: Mary G
Date: 12 Mar 25 - 10:55 PM

I know Joe Offer has tried to help, and we were not able to fight our way through the tape. Does anyone, perhaps in UK, know how to copyright shipyard apprentice in UK? I think it is MC?? something. I could not get very far..I just want to produce 200 or so cds and not charge too much. I will not get rich. If anyone could help me that would be great.

Subject: RE: Help with copyright Shipyard Apprentice UK
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Mar 25 - 11:43 PM

Hi, Mary -
I hope you don't mind. I moved this to the music section because that's where it belongs. In the other thread, we established that "The Fairfield Crane" and "Shipyard Apprentice" are one and the same song, written by Archie Fisher..

And I don't think you want to copyright the song - you want to license the song. But it sounds like you want to license it for publication in the UK, and I'm wondering why.

I tried to look up US licensing information, and songfile.com is down today. Or are you seeking to contact Archie Fisher to directly get a license from him? I'm sure somebody has contact information for him, but I don't know how to go about getting a license from an individual.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Help with copyright Shipyard Apprentice UK
From: GerryM
Date: 13 Mar 25 - 12:32 AM

Perhaps Mary wants to copyright an *arrangement*? (not that I know anything about how to do that)

Subject: RE: Help with copyright Shipyard Apprentice UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Mar 25 - 02:26 AM

Have you tried the MCPS/PRS website? It’s all on there. It was very simple and comparatively cheap when I released my little CD of ‘covers’ back in 2005 (200 copies, IIRC).

MCPS/PRS Licences tab

Hope that helps.

Subject: RE: Help with copyright Shipyard Apprentice UK
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 13 Mar 25 - 07:28 AM

Are you in the UK or US?

The procedure with making CDs is to obtain a licence from the mechanical copyright rights organisation for your country. In the UK this is MCPS. You submit a list of all the tracks (including public domain ones) and they calculate a royalty fee for all those which are copyright. When you've paid MCPS they then issue a licence, which the CD manufacturer will need before they will press the CDs. MCPS is responsible for apportioning the fee between the all the rights holders and paying them.

I'm not sure how this works in the US where I believe there may be more than one licensing organisation. I'm sure someone there can point you in the right direction. I believe the rights organisations in different countries have reciprocal arrangements to ensure that the rights owners get paid.

The system is intended to avoid the problem of identifying, tracking down and negotiating with all the rights holders whom you may wish to record. However many folk composers are not professionals and may not be registered with a rights organisation. or for whatever reason the rights organisation might not be able to licence it, in which case you will need to negotiate direct with the rights holder. However this seems very unlikely to apply in this case, where the composer is an internationally-known artist.

Subject: RE: Help with copyright Shipyard Apprentice UK
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 13 Mar 25 - 09:02 AM

The PRS database shows the composer as Archie Fisher and the publisher as Kettle Music, with mechanical copyright managed by MCPS. However as I said in my previous post, you should go through your local rights management organisation in the first instance.

Subject: RE: Help with copyright Shipyard Apprentice UK
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Mar 25 - 04:50 PM

thanks all. I spent some time on the MCPS site and it ended up with me paying $300. Never will happen. I will try other links. If anyone knows Archie Fisher and could just ask him what he wants or point me somewhere, great. It is an awesome song but this is why I generally avoid copyrights. I should say license like Joe said. I will try the site again but if anyone knows how to get me down to ten cents per copy that would be great. otherwise i will have to leave out the song.

Subject: RE: Help with copyright Shipyard Apprentice UK
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Mar 25 - 06:20 PM

Mary, are you planning to market this CD outside the US? If not, you can just go through Songfile.com and get a license.But I still can't get the Songfile.com Website to work.

Subject: RE: Help with copyright Shipyard Apprentice UK
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 15 Mar 25 - 08:42 AM

Where copyright is managed by a rights organisation you cannot circumvent that by going direct to the composer for permission. When a composer joins a rights organisation they appoint the organisation as their agent. It is no longer in the composer's gift to give permission. The rights organisation will track down what it perceives to be unauthorised use and demand a licence fee.

I had a situation where my band recorded a track written by one of the band members. He wasn't a member of MCPS and was able to give his permission to use it royalty-free. It went down as "copyright controlled" on the list we gave to MCPS, which indicates it was not their copyright to administer. Several years later a different band member recorded the track on a solo album. The composer was not eligible to join MCPS himself as the first recording was self-released (and the fee would have exceeded his expected earnings) so he assigned his rights to the record label, which was already a member of MCPS, and they would pay the royalties to him. MCPS then came after us for the original use, and wouldn't accept that we had permission from the then rights holder before MCPS took it on. I don't think the point was ever settled, and we had to ask the record label to sort it out.