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BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland
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BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland |
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Subject: BS: Artificial Intelligence v Corrupt Judges From: Aethelric Date: 22 Mar 25 - 06:03 AM I don’t suppose many folk here are familiar with Scottish politics or affairs. Craig Murray, a highly respected journalist and former UK Ambassador was convicted of contempt of court by the Scottish judiciary. He asked three AIs about it all. I thinks it’s an interesting outcome. Not only on the case, but also in the power of AI. https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2025/03/ai-vs-corrupt-judges/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: Aethelric Date: 24 Mar 25 - 06:15 AM I don’t know why admin changed the title of this post. It’s about AI and a corrupt and biassed judiciary. Scotland is used as an example, but it's not about Scotland. In a short while the United States of Trumpton may only have corrupt and biassed judges left. " March 21, 2025: The use of Artificial Intelligence raises complex issues, but you cannot bribe it or blackmail it, and while it is subject to overall political influence in its programming, how that will relate to individual subjects is in many ways unpredictable." "How do the court proceedings in which Craig Murray was jailed match up to common standards of justice in Western societies?" These are the answers obtained from Grok, Gemini and Copilot:- See link in post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 26 Mar 25 - 10:33 AM LLMs certainly can be corrupted. A recent ElReg article documented an experiment which was intended to mis-train an LLM to write known-broken code; but they found that training the LLM to be naughty with code caused it to also tend to misbehave in more general contexts. Does terrible code drive you mad? Wait until you see what it does to OpenAI's GPT-4o Model was fine-tuned to write vulnerable software – then suggested enslaving humanity
.... Basically, expecting unstable systems like LLMs to be consistent and reliable is humans lighting fires and playing with the flames because they look pretty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: Aethelric Date: 27 Mar 25 - 05:19 AM I suppose in this case that tha AIs came up with the blindingly obvious that the legal system is corrupt. Maybe the Scottish courts will arrest them and send them to jail! Interesting to see what happens when AIs fall foul of anti free speech laws. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 02 Apr 25 - 04:11 PM This will make a great TV Mini-series. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: Mo the caller Date: 07 Apr 25 - 07:00 AM Puts me in mind of a SF short story about someone who failed to return a library book. Since the book was Kidnapped by R L Stevenson and search engines discovered that Stevenson was dead, the computer sentenced him to death for kidnap and murder. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: Howard Jones Date: 08 Apr 25 - 05:14 AM A more informed explanation of the appeal court's decision can be found in the journal Scottish Legal News Briefly, he published information which would enable the complainants in the Alex Salmond trial to be identified, in breach of a court order to protect their identities. The reason for the order was that it was felt to be in the public interest that complainants could come forward without the fear that their involvement might be made public. If Murray were a bona fide journalist, and not merely an activist with a website, he might have been able to challange that decision in the courts, rather than resorting to repeatedly publishing information which might lead to them being identified and effectively challenging the court to take action, which it did. His affadavit was found to be simply polemic, expressing his beliefs, opinions and selective interpretation. It was not evidence which could be admitted to a court. Although I am not a lawyer, that was also my immediate impression even from only a quick reading of it. As for the AI articles, they are typically superficial and talk only in very general terms. This is the problem with AI - it can be very good at drawing information together from multiple sources far more quickly than a human researcher, but it is less good at drawing conclusions, especially in complex and technical matters which require judgement. I have yet to see an AI-generated article about a topic I know something about which I would trust, and some have been dangerously misleading. I am not therefore willing to rely on AI-generated conclusions about something I am less knowledgeable about. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: leeneia Date: 08 Apr 25 - 06:43 PM There's a lot of puffery and propaganda out about AI. Here's a quotation from a non-AI site: "AI has already transformed many industries and aspects of society, ranging from the introduction of customer service chatbots to enhanced GPS and mapping applications." Customer service chatbots, eh? As a person who just spent two solid hours trying to Chat with the IRS to get a pin, I think AI is over-rated. I told Chat that my 6-digit code never came in my email. (It saw the word email and decided there must be something wrong with the email address on my IRS account.) Maybe AI can do GPS and mapping, but that's just handling data, not thinking. Have you heard about the lawyer in New York who used AI to write a pleading in the trial of two burglars, and AI saw that pleadings often contain funny strings of letters and numbers, so it invented citations from an imaginary book of case files? The page numbers and court-case numbers were made-up, too. The lawyer almost lost his license. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: Donuel Date: 08 Apr 25 - 07:05 PM AI will be influenced by the human genius using it. It is never an automatic system. The genius behind the project to find out how proteins are folded came from the mind of an individual genius who overcame many failures. We now know how over 200,000 proteins are folded, when it used to take 7 years for each protein. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: Donuel Date: 08 Apr 25 - 07:44 PM There is much expected from AI that is ridiculous, as leenia says. The extreme intelligence of AI is offset by the depth of it being dumb. Passing a Turing test is not the epitome of intelligence. D.U.M.B. Deep Underground Military Bases won't match the depth of Trump's dumbness. Trump does not really know what he wants and makes it up as he goes along. This is why he reminds me of AI. When AI is a precision tool with fine control, it works much better than a loose wrecking ball. The fine control should be an ethical human with a clear idea of what we want or perhaps need. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 09 Apr 25 - 09:58 AM I heard about that lawyer, leeneia; he turns up occasionally in articles in The Register as an Awful Warning about the perils of thinking that LLMs can think. Worse yet, these instances of Artificial Incompetence do a Donald* if they're challenged, and double down on their hallucinated answers: one chap went through endless trouble trying to convince ChatGPT that he hadn't died, and was met by a wall of obituaries for himself, faked up from whole cloth. As I've remarked before hereabouts, LLMs are extremely expensive guess-the-next-word boxes. The only reason people believe they're worth anything is because they cost so much: "Garbage In, Gospel Out", an' all that. But pattern-matching, now *that*'s a reasonable use for them, but only if someone does a full cost/benefit analysis, and there's a human in the loop whose instinct is to say "no". * Aside: doubling down on losses at blackjack is a guaranteed losing strategy. As a one-time owner of casinos, Don the Con ought to know this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 09 Apr 25 - 11:09 AM And I may be getting a case of réja vu: Douglas Adams was way ahead of us all, as usual, when he thunk up the Electric Monk, the purpose of which was to believe things for (eg) people who were too busy to have time to research things properly. This caused some inconvenience for Gordon Way in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. |
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Subject: RE: BS: AI v Corrupt Judges - Scotland From: Donuel Date: 10 Apr 25 - 07:16 AM Don't PANIC Douglas Adams can still be accessed virtually via AI. I wish we had his empathy rifle. PS Don't forget your towel. |
