UK political topics 2025 1 thread only

Subject: UK politics topics 2025 (1 thread only)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 25 - 10:37 AM

We are limiting the political discussions to one per Trump and one per UK. So the thread that was started today on a specific topic is too narrow to serve that purpose. This thread will have to pick up where the other one (gets an error message about its length) ended.

If you want to see what you posted last in the other thread, take the back way in - look at your list of personal posts and you'll be able to see what you sent there.

The other one was BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Apr 25 - 04:54 PM

Since it is no longer possible to post to brexit and other uk political topics, without getting message that it will not accept. I am asking for members opinions on Starmers Rescue. It seems;like a good idea to me but i have not studied his plan in detail

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Apr 25 - 05:37 PM

First topic linked from closed thread

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Apr 25 - 07:40 AM

In the short-lived thread I responded: "Now all we need is reliable sources of iron, limestone, & coal, to keep the steel production going."

To which Backwoodsman responded: We have plenty of coal beneath us - IIRC, estimated as ~200 years’ worth - just not the means of extracting it, thanks to your heroine, the foul Witch of Grantham.

I'll now reply to that:
Until the advent of this latest Labour government there were plans for a new mine in Cumbria. They were overturned in court, and the Labour government allowed the plans to drop.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 25 - 11:44 AM

One of the (precious few) good things that they have done, Nigel!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 01:26 AM

Dave, my post wasn’t a complaint that we no longer have a coal-extraction industry, I’m in agreement with you that we’re better without it. I was simply pointing out the delicious irony of a self-confessed Thatcher-Fanboi appealing for ‘reliable sources’ of, amongst other things, coal! You couldn’t make it up!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 06:30 AM

Both:
So 'getting rid of UK coal mines' is a good thing, but Maggie Thatcher doing it is a bad thing?
Some weird thinking there.

Also, as has been pointed out many times here, Wilson closed more than twice as many pits as Thatcher did.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 07:46 AM

Clement Attlee's Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115 between 1979
CONSERVATIVES CLOSED 387, LABOUR CLOSED 363
Nigel those are facts

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 08:07 AM

It would seem to me that if scientific means could be used to eliminate the negative effects of burning coal, through perhaps filtration, we as a nation should consider using the resources we have, that is our coal reserves, whilst at the same time further developing alternative sources of energy.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 03:58 PM

I can see what you mean, Raggytash, but if we are going to spend time and effort to negate the negative effects of anything, surely we should concentrate on resources that are not going to run so soon?

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 01:39 AM

Rain and kinetic energy is a promosing source, ireland and the uk is surropunded by water.. hydro electricity?

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Aethelric
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 10:31 AM

Tidal power is good - and 100% predictable.
But the best way would be a global solar grid with huge solar farms situated in the deserts of the world.
Countries without much solar power could contribute via wind, hydro, tidal, or geothermal power.
It would need all countries to work together for the good of the planet as a whole.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 11:24 AM

Sandman: Clement Attlee's Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115 between 1979
CONSERVATIVES CLOSED 387, LABOUR CLOSED 363
Nigel those are facts

Which does not counter my statement that Wilson closed more than twice as many pits as Thatcher.
Also, proclaiming "Those are the facts" would be more persuasive if you gave details of where you got those 'facts'. Was the maths problem yours, or the site which supplied them? 101+253 = 363: False!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 12:05 PM

My mate Dave and I often used to come up with alternate energy ideas. Quite often after a gallon of Holt's bitter :-)

I think the best was a geostationary ring about the earth providing energy much like a giant dynamo :-)

More down to earth was clockwork cars which could be wound up at roadside windmills.

For some reason no-one ever took the ideas up :-D

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 01:27 PM

DtG: Did the two of you think to try harnessing the potential difference between the earth and the ionosphere? Due to leakage from the top of thunder clouds, the ionosphere's one or two hundred kV positive of earth; there's a constant electron lift of serious proportions from all non-clouded areas of the earth that maintains the balance. *Now* we know what Igor is harnessing.

.... Dear MudElf: This portion of the UK political topics thread may or may not be a MOAB candidate. Please advise.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 02:49 PM

oh the pooters and parsons of the world.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 07:21 PM

oh the pooters and parsons of the world.

And the 'Dick'heads who cannot support their arguments!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 02:30 AM

Conservatives closed more mines than the labour party, my stats prove that, that is clear support for my point.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 03:05 AM

Again I would point out that closing mines was probably the best thing that they did.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 08:50 AM

Funny Dave, I knew many miners, very few would agree with you on mine closures.

I once tried to get a job down Agecroft Colliery, I asked the father of my then girlfriend to put a word in for me (the only way you got taken on then).

He gripped me warmly, by the throat, and said in a way that brooked no argument "while you're going out with my lass, you're not going down the pit!"

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 09:30 AM

Aye. I suspect very few would have agreed at the time but the lives saved since, both of miners and those affected by the burning of coal, have made up for it. The camaraderie and sense of community were one thing but the reality was another. In the words of our mutual friend

Men have always won the battle
But I'll always win the war

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 10:47 AM

Conservatives closed more mines than the labour party, my stats prove that, that is clear support for my point.

Strange, before your cut/paste from Google I didn't see that you made any point which those 'facts' could possibly support.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 12:16 PM

Nice to see your posts on the dull mens club occasionally, Nigel. I suspect that our similarities far outweigh our differences :-)

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 12:32 PM

Nigel , I cannot help it if your light is on but nobody is at home

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 03:48 AM

The Conservatives closed more mines than the Labour party, the stats back that up

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Apr 25 - 11:45 AM

well done Starmer for saving the steel works in Scunthorpe

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Apr 25 - 03:42 PM

That remains to be seen.

Time will tell.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Apr 25 - 12:20 AM

Yes indeed

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 25 - 02:40 PM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/victoria-mccloud-transgender-ruling-european-court-human-rights-b2741391.html?utm

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: DaveRo
Date: 30 Apr 25 - 02:56 PM

Link is inaccessible unles I accept adverts, which I'm not going to do.

Alternative link?

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 25 - 03:04 PM

There is a browser extension that works with (at least) Chrome and Firefox - it's called Just Read and is a blue box with a book in it icon. I often find when I arrive on a page that insists I accept ads that if I open the page with the app I can read it all with no problem. I can see that page with the app right now.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: DaveRo
Date: 30 Apr 25 - 03:24 PM

Thanks. I'll confess I was making a point to Dick. (And in Firefox, I can read it in Reader Mode - so the Indy's tech team is a bit rubbish.)

And to be fair to Dick, I already read it in the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/apr/29/uks-first-trans-judge-victoria-mccloud-appeals-to-european-court-over-supreme-court-ruling

What a mess!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 25 - 11:45 AM

So the revolting Reform UK’s Andrea Jenkyns has been elected Mayor of Greater Lincolnshire, despite her not even living in Lincolnshire.

I’ve always fiercely defended my fellow Yeller-bellies when others accuse them of being thick, stupid country-bumpkins, but I’m beginning to think the others might have a point. :-/

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 May 25 - 12:53 PM

Perhaps you might try asking them why they voted the way they did.

What was the turnout for that vote?

Here in Kent Reform have made huge gains in the County Council elections. I have not yet seen details of the turnout. Kent was a Tory council previously.

It is one thing to criticise those inpower.it is different once you have to make those decisions yourself.

Reform will be judged on what they do. That remains to be seen.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 25 - 01:17 PM

The comments I’ve read on SM and local news seem to centre around ‘getting things (undefined) done’ and ‘giving the indigenous (their word, not mine) population preference over immigrants’. That’s a rough summary of course, but that seems to be the general level of their ‘thinking’.

Just heard Andrea Jenkyns on BBC News saying that “Tents are good enough for immigrants in France, tents should be good enough for them here”. What a POS.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 25 - 02:46 PM

The stats for the Lincolnshire Mayoral election are here. Turnout was low at 29.9% of registered voters.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 May 25 - 04:20 PM

Last I heard was Labour had lost 141 council seats while the Tories had lost 525. Nearly four times as many. Seems to me that it is mainly Tories who are defecting over to Reform rather than Labour voters. Probably altered by now but there are a couple of points if that is still the case.

Firstly, it puts me in a difficult position come the next election. The constituency where I live is Tory through and through. Always has been. Come 2028, if too many Conservative voters defect, we could end up with a Reform PLC MP :-( There is no chance that anyone left of centre will make any impact here so I may have to hold my nose and vote Tory to help ensure we get nothing worse!

Secondly, as the swing seems to be that right wing voters are moving further right then would it not make sense for left wing voters to move further left rather than support Reform? I doubt it will ever happen but if Starmer wants to keep Labour in the running, then he needs to steer the party back to traditional socialist values. We can but hope :-)

As an aside, I noticed something today. The leader or Reform PLC has the initials NF. Does that give us a clue as to where they came from? :-D

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 May 25 - 04:34 PM

BWM "The stats for the Lincolnshire Mayoral election are here. Turnout was low at 29.9% of registered voters."

That is the concern. So many people think it is not worthwhile casting their vote.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 25 - 05:11 PM

Possibly time the UK followed Australia’s lead and made voting compulsory? Not sure about it myself, but 42% of 30% electing the Mayor for the next four years just seems…errrmm, **wrong** somehow.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 May 25 - 06:09 PM

Some folks here point out it's only turning up & getting your name marked marked off that is compulsory - nothing says you have to fill in the form properly, or even at all!

optional links if you want to know more

What happens if I don't vote in the election? What are the penalties?

We also have a religious sect that don't believe in elections but members are 'volunteering' to hand put leaflets for conservative parties!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 May 25 - 06:22 AM

Possibly time the UK followed Australia’s lead and made voting compulsory?

I voted in the Greater Lincolnshire mayoral election because I consider it is my civic duty, but not with much enthusiasm. I am not really happy with the introduction of yet another level of bureaucracy.

If voting was made compulsory, I would strongly consider voting for a silly party, such as the Monster Raving Loonies, in protest. A low turnout is always seen as a sign of apathy but it could, at least in part, be a statement of disapproval of what is on offer.

DC

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 May 25 - 08:05 AM

what is disturbing me is that idiots belief **** like farahe that inclusion and cohesion is the cause of their torubles and that division is the way forard. We shoul dhave thye right to not ergnise and pay taxes for popu8kists fasr-right governmenmts.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 May 25 - 11:34 AM

”I voted in the Greater Lincolnshire mayoral election because I consider it is my civic duty, but not with much enthusiasm. I am not really happy with the introduction of yet another level of bureaucracy.”

I voted in the Greater Lincolnshire Mayoral Election pretty enthusiastically, mainly because I know two of the candidates personally, and I voted for one of those in the vain hope that I could help to keep the obnoxious Andrea Jenkyns out and get someone I know to be a good candidate in. Sadly it was not to be.

As I said in the post Doug quoted from, I’m not sure about compulsory voting either, but it would be an answer to low turnouts.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 May 25 - 11:50 AM

It may be worth noting that these were English local elections. Wales & Scotland vote next year.
They were also local elections in a limited number of areas. Angela Rayner delayed voting in some areas (possibly those where Labour expected to lose).
Gerrymandering is an ongoing problem!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 25 - 02:29 PM

but it would be an answer to low turnouts" quote.
no it would not, there would be absolutely nothing to stop voters who normally did not vote spoiling their vote.
they have still voted,
it is a feckin stupid idea that would not work

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 May 25 - 11:57 AM

That’s true, Nigel. Constituency boundary changes by the Conservative government spring to mind.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 25 - 03:47 AM

It would address low turnouts, Dick. Turnout means actually filling in the voting slip and, if that was compulsory, making it compulsory would increase turnout. What you do with the voting slip is counted even if you spoil it.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 May 25 - 04:14 AM

Thanks for responding Dave. Dick’s comment was so ill-informedI couldn’t be arsed to reply.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 25 - 04:17 AM

What is the point of having high turnouts, if previous non voters spoil their vote, it will not stop the like of Andrea Jenkyns getting elected.
quote DougChadwick
"If voting was made compulsory, I would strongly consider voting for a silly party, such as the Monster Raving Loonies, in protest. A low turnout is always seen as a sign of apathy but it could, at least in part, be a statement of disapproval of what is on offer."

it is a stupid idea, that would not get more people to vote for Establishment political candidates.

what is the point of forcing people to turnout to vote? you cannot force people to vote for candidates they do not like

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 25 - 04:39 AM

Backwoodsman comment is an example of not thinking of the consequences of authoritanarism you try to force people to vote, they will respond by fighting against it
Australia has a high proportion of spoiled votes, by forcing people to vote those people who previously have not bothered to vote will probably register their lack of enthusiasm by spoiling the vote or voting for monster raving loony.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 May 25 - 05:20 AM

Yes, some might spoil their ballot papers, some might vote for the the Monster Raving Loony Party (always assuming they have a candidate in their constituency - at the 2024 General Election the MRL Party had candidates in 24 out of 650 constituencies), but they will at least have voted. If you can’t see that would be preferable to a situation where someone is elected by a tiny proportion of the electorate, you really are very ill-informed.

Andrea Jenkyns was elected by 42% of 24% of eligible voters - that’s 10.08% of the electorate, 89.92% of the electorate did NOT express a wish for her to become the Mayor of Greater Lincolnshire. If you can defend that, you really are on another planet.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 May 25 - 05:30 AM

It would also be a simple matter to accommodate those who feel totally disaffected, by including an option of ‘None of the above’ or similar on the ballot paper, although spoiling your ballot paper is effectively the same thing and, as Dave correctly pointed out, it is still counted in the voting stats.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 25 - 09:40 AM

Backwoodsman you have not presented a logical argument,
Forcing people to vote does not guarantee that people will vote for establishment parties., or get a result that you might like, eg non election in lincolnshire of Jenkins
Australia has a high proportion of spoiled votes, it would appear to be as a result of people being forced to vote.
what is the point of forcing people to vote so that the turnout is bigger , if it just results in more spoiled votes and an election that succeeds in returning the same candidates who would have been elected before people were forced to vote.
you two are suggesting authoritarian rules just so that the electorate has a bigger turnout.
Authoritarianism at its worst

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 25 - 09:57 AM

Authoritarianism for no logical reaspon other than allowing a government to boast , voter turnout has increased.
What a brainless stupid idea.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 25 - 10:03 AM

what is the point of forcing people to vote so that the turnout is bigger

There is a very valid point to it. If people have not voted, you have no idea whether they have not voted because they do not like the candidates or because they cannot be bothered. If they spoil the vote it is most likely that they do not like the candidates. In addition, not everyone who is forced to vote will spoil their ballots. There will be some that vote for who they prefer and some who will vote tactically. In the Lincolshire mayor vote, for instance, we would have a much better idea of why 90% of the electorate did not vote for Jenkyns and, chances are, the vote may have gone differently.

As to "Authoritarianism at its worst", well, does anyone seriously think that being made to vote is worse than having your democratic reghts removed altogether? If so, then maybe some people should have their right to vote removed...

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 25 - 11:04 AM

neither Backwoodsman or Dave Polshaw have presented logical common sense arguments
Dave Polshaw has stated quote
As to "Authoritarianism at its worst", well, does anyone seriously think that being made to vote is worse than having your democratic reghts removed altogether? If so, then maybe some people should have their right to vote removed...
Reminds me of Totalitarian Dictators

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 May 25 - 11:28 AM

Read this and educate yourself. Dick.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 25 - 12:15 PM

So, do you really think that being made to vote is the worst possible thing that can happen to democracy, Dick?

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 11:11 AM

Reform UK’s disastrous plans for Lincolnshire. Time for compulsory voting, methinks.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 11:40 AM

Backwoodsman ,
what makes you so sure that compulsory voting would have altered the results in lincolnshire or anywhere else.
people can be made to register, but how they vote[ including spoiling a vote] when they are there is still not controllable.
How do you know it would make a difference
What sort of punishment do you recommend for those that refuse to vote,if a government insists on prison sentences, those that do not wish to vote, may deliberately en masse, decide to jam the prisons up by not voting as a political protest

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 11:50 AM

I don’t know the answers to any of that, and neither do you. It’s not my job to know. But at least everyone will have officially set down their wish, even if it’s ‘none of the above’. It may not make a difference to results, but it might. Neither you nor I know which.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 12:10 PM

What sort of punishment do you recommend for people who refuse to vote? if it is not guaranteed to make a difference to results, how do you justify the cost of implementing it.,
You are recommending a decision that is a leap in the dark, that you do not know what the result will be.
What sort of decision making is that, if a government was to adopt that policy for other matters you would have policies and laws made that were not good because decisions had been made regardless of consequences.
You are advocating making a decision when you do not know the results of what you are advocating
IMO that is not a good way to govern.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 12:20 PM

Plans for mandatory voter ID will cost up to £180 million a decade, according to a buried Government impact assessment.

The Cabinet Office’s official estimate for the proposals to make voters show a form of ID in order to vote in elections – contained in its Elections Bill – will cost between £65 million and £180 million over the next 10 years, with a ‘central estimate’ of £120 million.

The Government has come under increasing criticism over the legislation, which was rushed out before a high-profile inquiry into election finance in the UK – effectively guaranteeing that its findings would be ignored.

The bill has its second reading in Parliament this week.

The voter ID costs include £55 million on larger, more detailed polling cards, which will have to be posted in envelopes for the first time; and another £15 million on producing plastic ‘voter cards’ for the estimated 2.1 million Brits who may not have suitable ID, the Mirror and the Electoral Reform Society have revealed.

The newspaper reported that £120 million could buy 10,316 hip operations, 3,986 new ventilators, or 6.6million hours of tutoring in schools. HERE IS THE LINK

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/06/mandatory-voter-id-the-cost-to-taxpayers-and-democracy/

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 12:28 PM

if the information i have provided is incorrect or irrelevant ,please inform me of the cost forcing people to turn up to voteof

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 01:11 PM

I believe our electoral system would be better served if we had compulsory voting, and that there would be a far greater likelihood of results reflecting the true feelings and wishes of the whole electorate, not just a small percentage.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 02:56 PM

do you believe in proportional representation, that is a system that reflects the true feelings and wishes of the whole electorate, not just a small percentage., and it does it better than compulsory voting.

Compulsory voting appears to result in a high proportion of spoiled votes.
Proportional representation is an electoral system in which the distribution of seats corresponds closely with the proportion of the total votes cast for each party. For example, if a party gained 40% of the total votes, a perfectly proportional system would allow them to gain 40% of the seats.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 25 - 05:34 PM

I agree about PR. I also agree with compulsory voting. The punishment for not voting should be having the right to vote removed for a set period. Refusal to vote a second time should result in voting rights removed altogether

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 05:44 PM

M with you on PR Dave. In fact, PR and compulsory voting would go a long way to solving the anomalous results which come as a result of our ‘FPTP’ system with low turnouts.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 25 - 01:36 AM

"I agree about PR. I also agree with compulsory voting. The punishment for not voting should be having the right to vote removed for a set period. Refusal to vote a second time should result in voting rights removed altogether" quote
So after the second time voting protesters will have got the situation back to square one.
in effect, a waste of time.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 25 - 01:44 AM

And a waste of money.
It is impossible to control how voters vote, if voters who have refused to vote before, now spoil their vote, what has compulsory voting achieved other than giving politicians the satisfaction of a nominal high turnout, and voters a new way to show a protest

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 25 - 03:09 AM

Yes, we alre@dy know your views on that subject, Dick. No need to keep repeating them.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 25 - 04:10 AM

Dave,
it is a fact,that what you suggest will cost extra money, it is a fact You are advocating making a decision when you do not know the results of what you are advocating.
I am repeating facts., not my views.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 25 - 04:59 AM

Whatever you think they are, you are repeating them ad nauseam and that is only likely to get the thread closed. So how about giving it a rest eh?

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 05:38 AM

Here's what I think, and I have no interest in politics at all.

Yes, non-voters could be made to vote, but would that cause resentment? I rather think it could - and that, come election day, could show itself in the overall voting result.

It may be more productive (politically) to ask non-voters why they don't vote and try to address any issues there.

Just my two penn'orth guys :)

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 08 May 25 - 05:50 AM

I agree that some form of proportional representation would be better than 'first past the post' but, the fact is, that's what we have at the moment.

The problem with compulsory voting under this system is that, once you have eliminated those you would definitely not vote for, your vote could come down to random choice of those who remain. As is often seen on TV quiz shows, when people have no idea, they choose the middle option. A candidate's position on the ballot paper could give an unfair advantage or disadvantage.

When voting remains optional, those going to the polling station will at least have given it some thought beforehand.

If the political parties can't persuade people to come out to the polling stations, do they deserve their votes?

DC

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:02 AM

No.Dave
I am not stating my views.
I am pointing out some facts, you have stated that you think compulsory voting should be mandatory .Fact
Yet you do not know what the results of compulsory voting would be. Fact You are suggesting introducing a law that you do not know the consequences of . Fact

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:19 AM

Dave wrote:
"The punishment for not voting should be having the right to vote removed for a set period."

Is that a punishment or a reward for non-voters? :-)

I do agree though that compulsory voting is worth a try.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:20 AM

"Yet you do not know what the results of compulsory voting would be. Fact"

Neither do you. Fact.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:23 AM

I am not suggesting introducing a law that we do not know the consequences of you and Dave are, that is an important difference between us.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:32 AM

Is uncertainty about the outcome of a project a good reason for not undertaking the project in the first place? If our forebears had thought like you, Europeans would never have discovered America, humans would never have flown, Everest would never have been conquered, man would never have stood on the moon. In comparison with the dangers and uncertainties involved in those projects, making voting compulsory pales into insignificance.

”We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard” - John F Kennedy.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:48 AM

And, of course, if it were decided to introduce compulsory voting and it turned out to not work, there’s no reason why the decision couldn’t be reversed and go back to voluntary voting. But without trying it, none of us no whether the outcome would be a success or a failure, and that includes you.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:48 AM

No? KNOW!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 07:50 AM

I think it goes much deeper than what you guys are debating.

If I talk to people who say they don't vote, trust (or lack of it) is one of the main reasons they give.

Lord alone knows how you restore trust when people don't believe a word you say, but I think politicians somehow have to try to in order to bring out voters en masse.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 08:22 AM

Perhaps the answer is to give people some incentive to vote that transcends their indifference towards the available candidates. What that would be I don't know, it seems that having a decent government should be incentive enough, but if we don't do something about voter apathy we'll keep getting sub-human creatures like Trump in power. He won with 77 million votes while over 90 million registered voters stayed away from the polls in '24.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 08:28 AM

It would be interesting to hear from our Australian members (Helen, Sandra) how it works, and with what level of success, in Australia. Belgium too, although I don’t know of any Belgian members, or any of the other, fairly numerous, countries with compulsory voting.

https://www.idea.int/data-tools/data/voter-turnout-database/compulsory-voting

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 09:06 AM

How about infrastructure improvements, perhaps a park, sidewalks, a bike lane etc. for voting districts with high turnouts. Of course, in the U.S. this would be a high hill to climb when one of the 2 major parties, the GOP, have voter suppression as one of their main electoral strategies.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 08 May 25 - 09:49 AM

..... a bike lane etc

That would not be an incentive to all. Many motorists would vote to have bike lanes taken away.

DC

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:03 AM

Okay, make it something the community could agree on, like better roads, improved health care facilities, etc. Put the funds in local coffers and let them hash it out.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:04 AM

Gilly -


Ah pure, undiluted voter bribery. I wondered when that would show up lol.

No, seriously, it may not bring out the voters mate. I mean, it seems to me that the non voters have had enough. They can't or won't believe politicians anymore.

I could be way wrong but that's how it looks to me.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:10 AM

If it's a chance to improve their community I think more voters will turn out. Why shouldn't the more responsible districts be rewarded. All this should be done without shorting the more poverty-stricken areas that already have it bad enough.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:36 AM

Gilly,

Citizens should have all that and more
There's no disagreement from me over that.

No, what I'm saying is that UK politicians have lied and lied, in ALL parties and the public show their distrust/disgust by not voting. Can I understañd their motives? Absolutely :)

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:41 AM

You seem to be making a compelling argument for the introduction of compulsory voting, Fred! ;-)

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:02 AM

BWM,

I don't disagree with trying it. If it didn't work, just reverse it.

My big thing is lying. I want the truth from politicians so that, when I go to the polling station, I know exactly what I'm voting FOR, you know? :)

Fred.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Rain Dog
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:24 AM

I am not happy about low turnouts. I think that it is not a great situation to be in. There does need to be an effort to try to encourage more people to vote. I am not sure that compulsory voting is the solution.

I do think we need to change our voting system. FPTP is fine if you just have 2 parties.

Differences between parties are becoming harder to detect.

It would also help if parties would be more honest about what they will be able to do once elected. None of them seem to want to go down that route. Also voters need to be more realistic about what their parties will be able to achieve in 4 or 5 years.

Reform had an overwhelming win here in the Kent County Council elections. It will be interesting to see how they will manage in the next few years with rising debt and rising costs.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:46 AM

OK. I have had a change of heart. Instead of compulsory voting let's incentivise it.

Free beer for those who vote ??

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:59 AM

Dave,


What about those who don't drink? Their vote in exchange for a nest box for Bombay shite hawks? :)

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 25 - 03:48 PM

There is a boat on the canal near us called "Shy Talk"

The owner has a great sense of humour :-D

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:30 PM

There is, or was, a day boat in Whitby named "Shy Torque"" which is a local colloquialism for a seagull.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 09 May 25 - 02:55 AM

LOL!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 May 25 - 03:06 AM

Aaaaaaand….100! ;-)

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 May 25 - 06:02 AM

I postal vote so how do I cliam my beer? The idea of real ale casks at the polling office appeelas to me, but the polling officers woudl need to rest the temptation to inbibe.