UK political topics 2025 1 thread only

Subject: UK politics topics 2025 (1 thread only)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 25 - 10:37 AM

We are limiting the political discussions to one per Trump and one per UK. So the thread that was started today on a specific topic is too narrow to serve that purpose. This thread will have to pick up where the other one (gets an error message about its length) ended.

If you want to see what you posted last in the other thread, take the back way in - look at your list of personal posts and you'll be able to see what you sent there.

The other one was BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Apr 25 - 04:54 PM

Since it is no longer possible to post to brexit and other uk political topics, without getting message that it will not accept. I am asking for members opinions on Starmers Rescue. It seems;like a good idea to me but i have not studied his plan in detail

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Apr 25 - 05:37 PM

First topic linked from closed thread

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Apr 25 - 07:40 AM

In the short-lived thread I responded: "Now all we need is reliable sources of iron, limestone, & coal, to keep the steel production going."

To which Backwoodsman responded: We have plenty of coal beneath us - IIRC, estimated as ~200 years’ worth - just not the means of extracting it, thanks to your heroine, the foul Witch of Grantham.

I'll now reply to that:
Until the advent of this latest Labour government there were plans for a new mine in Cumbria. They were overturned in court, and the Labour government allowed the plans to drop.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 25 - 11:44 AM

One of the (precious few) good things that they have done, Nigel!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 01:26 AM

Dave, my post wasn’t a complaint that we no longer have a coal-extraction industry, I’m in agreement with you that we’re better without it. I was simply pointing out the delicious irony of a self-confessed Thatcher-Fanboi appealing for ‘reliable sources’ of, amongst other things, coal! You couldn’t make it up!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 06:30 AM

Both:
So 'getting rid of UK coal mines' is a good thing, but Maggie Thatcher doing it is a bad thing?
Some weird thinking there.

Also, as has been pointed out many times here, Wilson closed more than twice as many pits as Thatcher did.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 07:46 AM

Clement Attlee's Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115 between 1979
CONSERVATIVES CLOSED 387, LABOUR CLOSED 363
Nigel those are facts

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 08:07 AM

It would seem to me that if scientific means could be used to eliminate the negative effects of burning coal, through perhaps filtration, we as a nation should consider using the resources we have, that is our coal reserves, whilst at the same time further developing alternative sources of energy.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 03:58 PM

I can see what you mean, Raggytash, but if we are going to spend time and effort to negate the negative effects of anything, surely we should concentrate on resources that are not going to run so soon?

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 01:39 AM

Rain and kinetic energy is a promosing source, ireland and the uk is surropunded by water.. hydro electricity?

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Aethelric
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 10:31 AM

Tidal power is good - and 100% predictable.
But the best way would be a global solar grid with huge solar farms situated in the deserts of the world.
Countries without much solar power could contribute via wind, hydro, tidal, or geothermal power.
It would need all countries to work together for the good of the planet as a whole.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 11:24 AM

Sandman: Clement Attlee's Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115 between 1979
CONSERVATIVES CLOSED 387, LABOUR CLOSED 363
Nigel those are facts

Which does not counter my statement that Wilson closed more than twice as many pits as Thatcher.
Also, proclaiming "Those are the facts" would be more persuasive if you gave details of where you got those 'facts'. Was the maths problem yours, or the site which supplied them? 101+253 = 363: False!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 12:05 PM

My mate Dave and I often used to come up with alternate energy ideas. Quite often after a gallon of Holt's bitter :-)

I think the best was a geostationary ring about the earth providing energy much like a giant dynamo :-)

More down to earth was clockwork cars which could be wound up at roadside windmills.

For some reason no-one ever took the ideas up :-D

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 01:27 PM

DtG: Did the two of you think to try harnessing the potential difference between the earth and the ionosphere? Due to leakage from the top of thunder clouds, the ionosphere's one or two hundred kV positive of earth; there's a constant electron lift of serious proportions from all non-clouded areas of the earth that maintains the balance. *Now* we know what Igor is harnessing.

.... Dear MudElf: This portion of the UK political topics thread may or may not be a MOAB candidate. Please advise.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 02:49 PM

oh the pooters and parsons of the world.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 07:21 PM

oh the pooters and parsons of the world.

And the 'Dick'heads who cannot support their arguments!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 02:30 AM

Conservatives closed more mines than the labour party, my stats prove that, that is clear support for my point.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 03:05 AM

Again I would point out that closing mines was probably the best thing that they did.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 08:50 AM

Funny Dave, I knew many miners, very few would agree with you on mine closures.

I once tried to get a job down Agecroft Colliery, I asked the father of my then girlfriend to put a word in for me (the only way you got taken on then).

He gripped me warmly, by the throat, and said in a way that brooked no argument "while you're going out with my lass, you're not going down the pit!"

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 09:30 AM

Aye. I suspect very few would have agreed at the time but the lives saved since, both of miners and those affected by the burning of coal, have made up for it. The camaraderie and sense of community were one thing but the reality was another. In the words of our mutual friend

Men have always won the battle
But I'll always win the war

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 10:47 AM

Conservatives closed more mines than the labour party, my stats prove that, that is clear support for my point.

Strange, before your cut/paste from Google I didn't see that you made any point which those 'facts' could possibly support.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 12:16 PM

Nice to see your posts on the dull mens club occasionally, Nigel. I suspect that our similarities far outweigh our differences :-)

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 12:32 PM

Nigel , I cannot help it if your light is on but nobody is at home

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 03:48 AM

The Conservatives closed more mines than the Labour party, the stats back that up

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Apr 25 - 11:45 AM

well done Starmer for saving the steel works in Scunthorpe

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Apr 25 - 03:42 PM

That remains to be seen.

Time will tell.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Apr 25 - 12:20 AM

Yes indeed

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 25 - 02:40 PM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/victoria-mccloud-transgender-ruling-european-court-human-rights-b2741391.html?utm

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: DaveRo
Date: 30 Apr 25 - 02:56 PM

Link is inaccessible unles I accept adverts, which I'm not going to do.

Alternative link?

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 25 - 03:04 PM

There is a browser extension that works with (at least) Chrome and Firefox - it's called Just Read and is a blue box with a book in it icon. I often find when I arrive on a page that insists I accept ads that if I open the page with the app I can read it all with no problem. I can see that page with the app right now.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: DaveRo
Date: 30 Apr 25 - 03:24 PM

Thanks. I'll confess I was making a point to Dick. (And in Firefox, I can read it in Reader Mode - so the Indy's tech team is a bit rubbish.)

And to be fair to Dick, I already read it in the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/apr/29/uks-first-trans-judge-victoria-mccloud-appeals-to-european-court-over-supreme-court-ruling

What a mess!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 25 - 11:45 AM

So the revolting Reform UK’s Andrea Jenkyns has been elected Mayor of Greater Lincolnshire, despite her not even living in Lincolnshire.

I’ve always fiercely defended my fellow Yeller-bellies when others accuse them of being thick, stupid country-bumpkins, but I’m beginning to think the others might have a point. :-/

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 May 25 - 12:53 PM

Perhaps you might try asking them why they voted the way they did.

What was the turnout for that vote?

Here in Kent Reform have made huge gains in the County Council elections. I have not yet seen details of the turnout. Kent was a Tory council previously.

It is one thing to criticise those inpower.it is different once you have to make those decisions yourself.

Reform will be judged on what they do. That remains to be seen.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 25 - 01:17 PM

The comments I’ve read on SM and local news seem to centre around ‘getting things (undefined) done’ and ‘giving the indigenous (their word, not mine) population preference over immigrants’. That’s a rough summary of course, but that seems to be the general level of their ‘thinking’.

Just heard Andrea Jenkyns on BBC News saying that “Tents are good enough for immigrants in France, tents should be good enough for them here”. What a POS.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 25 - 02:46 PM

The stats for the Lincolnshire Mayoral election are here. Turnout was low at 29.9% of registered voters.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 May 25 - 04:20 PM

Last I heard was Labour had lost 141 council seats while the Tories had lost 525. Nearly four times as many. Seems to me that it is mainly Tories who are defecting over to Reform rather than Labour voters. Probably altered by now but there are a couple of points if that is still the case.

Firstly, it puts me in a difficult position come the next election. The constituency where I live is Tory through and through. Always has been. Come 2028, if too many Conservative voters defect, we could end up with a Reform PLC MP :-( There is no chance that anyone left of centre will make any impact here so I may have to hold my nose and vote Tory to help ensure we get nothing worse!

Secondly, as the swing seems to be that right wing voters are moving further right then would it not make sense for left wing voters to move further left rather than support Reform? I doubt it will ever happen but if Starmer wants to keep Labour in the running, then he needs to steer the party back to traditional socialist values. We can but hope :-)

As an aside, I noticed something today. The leader or Reform PLC has the initials NF. Does that give us a clue as to where they came from? :-D

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 May 25 - 04:34 PM

BWM "The stats for the Lincolnshire Mayoral election are here. Turnout was low at 29.9% of registered voters."

That is the concern. So many people think it is not worthwhile casting their vote.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 25 - 05:11 PM

Possibly time the UK followed Australia’s lead and made voting compulsory? Not sure about it myself, but 42% of 30% electing the Mayor for the next four years just seems…errrmm, **wrong** somehow.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 May 25 - 06:09 PM

Some folks here point out it's only turning up & getting your name marked marked off that is compulsory - nothing says you have to fill in the form properly, or even at all!

optional links if you want to know more

What happens if I don't vote in the election? What are the penalties?

We also have a religious sect that don't believe in elections but members are 'volunteering' to hand put leaflets for conservative parties!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 May 25 - 06:22 AM

Possibly time the UK followed Australia’s lead and made voting compulsory?

I voted in the Greater Lincolnshire mayoral election because I consider it is my civic duty, but not with much enthusiasm. I am not really happy with the introduction of yet another level of bureaucracy.

If voting was made compulsory, I would strongly consider voting for a silly party, such as the Monster Raving Loonies, in protest. A low turnout is always seen as a sign of apathy but it could, at least in part, be a statement of disapproval of what is on offer.

DC

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 May 25 - 08:05 AM

what is disturbing me is that idiots belief **** like farahe that inclusion and cohesion is the cause of their torubles and that division is the way forard. We shoul dhave thye right to not ergnise and pay taxes for popu8kists fasr-right governmenmts.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 May 25 - 11:34 AM

”I voted in the Greater Lincolnshire mayoral election because I consider it is my civic duty, but not with much enthusiasm. I am not really happy with the introduction of yet another level of bureaucracy.”

I voted in the Greater Lincolnshire Mayoral Election pretty enthusiastically, mainly because I know two of the candidates personally, and I voted for one of those in the vain hope that I could help to keep the obnoxious Andrea Jenkyns out and get someone I know to be a good candidate in. Sadly it was not to be.

As I said in the post Doug quoted from, I’m not sure about compulsory voting either, but it would be an answer to low turnouts.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 May 25 - 11:50 AM

It may be worth noting that these were English local elections. Wales & Scotland vote next year.
They were also local elections in a limited number of areas. Angela Rayner delayed voting in some areas (possibly those where Labour expected to lose).
Gerrymandering is an ongoing problem!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 25 - 02:29 PM

but it would be an answer to low turnouts" quote.
no it would not, there would be absolutely nothing to stop voters who normally did not vote spoiling their vote.
they have still voted,
it is a feckin stupid idea that would not work

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 May 25 - 11:57 AM

That’s true, Nigel. Constituency boundary changes by the Conservative government spring to mind.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 25 - 03:47 AM

It would address low turnouts, Dick. Turnout means actually filling in the voting slip and, if that was compulsory, making it compulsory would increase turnout. What you do with the voting slip is counted even if you spoil it.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 May 25 - 04:14 AM

Thanks for responding Dave. Dick’s comment was so ill-informedI couldn’t be arsed to reply.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 25 - 04:17 AM

What is the point of having high turnouts, if previous non voters spoil their vote, it will not stop the like of Andrea Jenkyns getting elected.
quote DougChadwick
"If voting was made compulsory, I would strongly consider voting for a silly party, such as the Monster Raving Loonies, in protest. A low turnout is always seen as a sign of apathy but it could, at least in part, be a statement of disapproval of what is on offer."

it is a stupid idea, that would not get more people to vote for Establishment political candidates.

what is the point of forcing people to turnout to vote? you cannot force people to vote for candidates they do not like

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 25 - 04:39 AM

Backwoodsman comment is an example of not thinking of the consequences of authoritanarism you try to force people to vote, they will respond by fighting against it
Australia has a high proportion of spoiled votes, by forcing people to vote those people who previously have not bothered to vote will probably register their lack of enthusiasm by spoiling the vote or voting for monster raving loony.