BS: stay out of trouble thread (stay afloat)

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 11:28 PM

With a handful of items being returned to the fridge at dinnertime, the slim bottle of Tapatio hot sauce slipped from my grasp and hit the floor with the edge of the base. The lid end was still intact with much of the bottle, but a segment of it burst into fragments in all directions. Small bottle, amazing amount of glass. And I was still picking them up after scooping (sauce), mopping, and finally sweeping.

What do you want to bet that either tomorrow or six weeks from now a bright large piece will be somewhere on the floor for me to find and know exactly where it came from. And does this mean I can't go barefoot in the kitchen until I find it?

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 25 - 08:00 PM

keberoxu, they sound like a delightful couple and I'm glad they are your friends. You and Helen have good friends who need supportive friends, and I'm glad that you're both there for a source of rational support.

Family dynamics can be terrific or they can be brutal. Who owns the house or has the right to live in it can't always withstand pressure of heirs, something I've seen play out in painful ways. Sometimes all it takes is one malcontent amongst the children to make everything horrible (my youngest brother comes to mind in our father's estate). Never assume people will behave themselves. I hope they have everything etched in stone now. I'm really sorry to insert that note of caution, but she needs to protect herself.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Sep 25 - 05:24 PM

The chorus I sing in, includes a married couple, a soprano and a baritone. I am friends with the soprano, we generally end up standing next to each other.

Sadly, the husband was diagnosed, within the last year, with Lewy body dementia, which the wife says is similar to Parkinson's. His symptoms aren't all that bad at this point, but it is only a matter of time until things get worse.

The soprano/wife has done a smart thing and she has found herself a support group for caregivers. The group meets, interestingly enough, at my retirement community, which has a memory-care unit of its own.

This is a very loving, devoted couple, so it's really tragic. They have family, though. It's the second marriage for both, and the husband has several grown children from his first marriage, who get along comfortably with my friend, his current wife. So it is to be hoped that everyone will support this couple through what will probably be an increasingly difficult time in their lives.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 25 - 11:23 AM

From April 2024, the last we heard from Senoufou on that Stay Afloat thread:

Thank you keberoxu for your kind enquiry. I'm still waiting for my operation, but the Norfolk & Norwich hospital is snowed under with a long list of patients awaiting their operations. Apparently it could be around 18 weeks before they get in touch. Meanwhile I'm in quite a bit of pain but hey-ho, what can one do?

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Helen
Date: 17 Sep 25 - 08:23 PM

They have been together 25 years. He is a controlling personality, and as far as I know he has always been that way. The one piece of good news is that she lives in her own house and he lives in his house but he still invades her personal space and uses his coercive control tricks to manipulate her.

I have been trying to talk to her about this for a couple of years now and she has taken some steps to understand the situation but I am beginning to think that she will never take the final steps to send him on his way, out of her life.

I'm an action person. I don't cope well when I am standing by and watching someone else who is letting her own life slowly but surely go down the toilet. She seems to think it is all inevitable.

Very frustrating to watch from the sidelines - and very difficult to stop myself from jumping in and taking positive action.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 25 - 07:32 PM

When my kids were small, but old enough to understand, I told them that if something was happening at our house that made them want to run away, please go to a friend's house that was safe, and we'd work everything out from there. In high school my daughter reminded me of that and asked if it worked in reverse - could a friend who felt the need to leave come to our house? Yes! That is essential, to keep them safe. The friend who might have come over never did; it may have been enough to know that another family could support her if she needed it.

That said, I wonder if your friend would like some time away, to go over to your house for a sleepover visit? Or find an excuse for a brief road trip in the area to give them breathing space and her a chance to share if so inclined?

Relationship trauma can happen at any age. Is theirs a relationship of long-standing (and the trouble may be due to dementia, etc.) or a new relationship? That might make a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Helen
Date: 17 Sep 25 - 07:22 PM

That could be a really good avenue of activity for you to get into keberoxu, and you can make some good contacts in your community as well. :-)

sorry to bring down the positive atmosphere, but my current social situation is down in the dumps.

Simultaneously I lost social contact with my weekly friendly music session which unfortunately broke up after over 40 years of playing together, the fortnightly donation of plasma which is as much of a social contact as it is a good deed for others, and my monthly catch-up lunches with old school friends, and that also meant not seeing my sister regularly - "we're Irish twins" but ended up in the same year at school. Today I get to catch up with them all again. Yay!

The cause of the music group break-up was complicated and I still see some of them at a pub session once a month but I don't play my harp there because it is a bit daunting playing in front of strangers and some very clever musicians.

The plasma donations had to be delayed until I had a medical procedure and I now have the all-clear from that but I have to wait for the doctor to give permission re my blood iron levels. Hubby had a couple more of his never-ending medical "adventures" so that's why I missed the "Girls' lunches". Very old "girls" now!

Yesterday I finally had a catch-up with a music friend I have known for over 50 years but she is in a traumatic relationship and I try not to tell her what to do but I lost my cool a bit this time and drove home feeling angry and frustrated. F***ing coercive control!! @#$%!!

I told her I would go and tell him where to go myself. She didn't take me up on the offer. She'll keep putting up with it until it kills her. She already looks very old and unhealthy, even since the last time I saw her a couple of months ago.

Knowing how your life is turning around positively at your retirement village, keb, I have tried to convince my friend to find a place like that. One of the real advantages would be not having to work on maintaining her house and garden. That would all be done by the staff at the village. I have my fingers crossed that she might finally take the plunge on that idea.

I expect my social life will turn around to a more positive, healthy phase but ... in the meantime, I keep thinking that the best way to go downhill mentally is to lose your social contacts and the activities which keep your brain active, e.g. playing music with friends.

I live in hope.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 25 - 06:56 PM

That sounds interesting. Is it a printed newsletter or email? On a web page? This will undoubtedly bring you to the attention of like-minded individuals in the community. Are there any music events you might review or promote? I see a great potential for you in cultivating a group of friends. Congratulations on possibly cracking the code to get to know people there.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Sep 25 - 06:01 PM

In July I went to a theater to see Tennessee William's Camino Real;
I touched upon the event briefly in this thread.

At the retirement community, the monthly newsletter has resumed
which was on summer break.

I'm going to submit a review of the performance I saw,
and see if the newsletter will print it.
I just wrote the first draft today,
and I will get a copy to the associate editor;
the chief editor is away on vacation or something.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Sep 25 - 05:39 PM

Mrrzy, yup. The stress of all of this chaos brought back the PMR and I'm back on the meds - when you're trying not to worry about worrying too much and bringing it back, there's a cycle to break. Good luck to you, and for recognizing what was happening and getting treatment when needed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Sep 25 - 04:26 PM

You have a lot of company, Mrrzy. Hang in there!

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Sep 25 - 07:59 PM

Argh, I shoild hang here more. Back on meds for anxiety * and* depression, more things going wrong in the world.

I'm a lot better when things are fine...

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Sep 25 - 05:09 PM

Sweet of you to ask, SRS. I am sleeping tolerably well now, although, maybe it's age, but it takes me longer to get to sleep these nights. The new mattress is an improvement. I just am struggling still to get used to sleeping in what still seems a new place. I have taken to leaving a light on, like a night light, and it seems to help me to feel comfortable enough to relax into sleeping.

The nosy neighbor is behaving herself since I told her, the one time, that she told me too much. Maybe there will be tension again in the future, but for now she is keeping a decent distance. I believe I can respond, in the future, without getting so upset as before.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Sep 25 - 04:54 PM

Keb, how are you sleeping now? Is the new mattress comfortable enough to forget about it and just go to sleep?

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: pattyClink
Date: 03 Sep 25 - 10:04 PM

Oh dear, I have met people like this. They collect and trade in gossip, and they will interview you, debrief you, and confide and pry until they get all they can get. Often they literally have no interests except being a 'people person'. The worst one I had to deal with, I had to simply stop saying anything but hello to, if I saw her in the neighborhood.

If I had to interact, I guess I'd do like keberoxu has done, explain that I don't want to get so personal. Then there are evergreen responses to keep handy, like "why on earth would you ask that?" "I'm just trying to mind my own business", dead silence, and walking away.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 25 - 06:54 PM

When a friendship starts organically there is usually a lot of sharing and comparing, but only if the feelings are mutual. What kinds of subjects does she broach? Things that all tie back to her? Or is she drilling you?

Why is she not reading or is ignoring your signals that you're not interested? Does she have other friends in the community?

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Helen
Date: 03 Sep 25 - 06:10 PM

That's a great strategy, Doug!!

Or maybe start expounding on the deep technicalities of playing classical music, similar to listening to an IT person at a dinner party explaining a specific technical aspect of their work in great depth and which no-one else understands except superficially. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 03 Sep 25 - 05:31 PM

well said, Doug!

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Sep 25 - 04:46 PM

Try talking about folk music - specifically, "what is folk?". If her eyes start to glaze over, you shouldn't have any more trouble.
;-)

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Helen
Date: 03 Sep 25 - 04:28 PM

Stay firm and determined to keep your own space. No means no, thanks but no thanks.

It brings to my mind the coercive control type of behaviour and part of that is being nice just to get her own way.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Sep 25 - 03:44 PM

The nosy woman is back and she is doing her best to negotiate terms, so to speak.
I have let her know that she told me too much and I was unhappy about it.
She wants to apologize and get hugs and stroke me some more, literally.
I keep saying no to the hugs and the stroking.

This is a deeply needy person and all the times that I was being polite to her, she somehow found me attractive, and now she wants to give me special treatment.
It's all very creepy. She's an old lady and I don't see her changing.

I'm afraid the only way to deal with her coming after me and wanting my attention is to keep saying no and to be firm,
and accept that she negotiates and pushes. It's how she goes through life.
From one point of view she is harmless, and she would protest vehemently that she is harmless, I'm sure.
But we are practically neighbors and we cannot avoid crossing paths in the hallway.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Aug 25 - 08:34 PM

I overheard something a little chilling tonight.

In the parlor by the retirement community library, I was reading a book.
Two women sat down on a couch nearby and began talking earnestly, as though I were not there to hear.
One of the women claimed that she has been robbed twice since she moved here, describing what was taken -- jewelry, of course.
Somewhere in the conversation, the other woman remarked, "There are no secrets at [the retirement community]."
I haven't any jewelry to be robbed of. I don't dress that way;
the woman in question does dress up, though, especially for dinner.

I have days when I feel sorry for myself. I don't, after hearing that.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 Aug 25 - 10:21 AM

Getting things shipped in a hurry: I remember reading about the touring theatrical company who had difficulties ensuring their costume and/or props hamper arrived (by rail iirc) before the performance. Their solution was to write FISH in large, friendly letters on the hamper.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Aug 25 - 11:10 PM

I shipped 3 pounds of okra to a friend but the UPSP was so slow, even on Priority mail, that most of it spoiled before it got there. The post office used to ship the more expensive mail faster, now it just says "gotcha" if you're silly enough to pay more for the same slow service all other parcels get.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Aug 25 - 06:12 PM

Indeed, SRS, there are many other events going on that I can look into and participate in, although if they are in the morning then I have conflicts in my schedule.

As for music, there is already a musician leading singing in the community at regular times; he conducts singing, and he has an accompanist who works with him. He is always looking for new singers. I am not aware if my nosy neighbor is or is not part of the singing group. But this is something that might fit into my schedule ... or not ... I will have to see. I think the group, like my chorus, had the summer off. But they ought to start meeting up again.

As to my chorus, they resume a week after Labor Day, which is in no time at all.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Helen
Date: 25 Aug 25 - 04:07 PM

Talking about finding a group activity reminds me of some detective fiction books I read recently about a group of people living in a retirement village who start investigating a crime and then the next books are each about a new crime.

Richard Osman Thursday Murder Club series. I have read the first two. I'll have to find copies of the other three. They are a gentle, fun read - except for the crime part, of course.

SRS, your story reminds me of a flaky manager - long story, she wasn't management material - who decided to run mindfulness sessions when the unit was under pressure about being relocated 50 miles away. Not many attended and the sessions fizzled out. (My comment about her would be that she needed a mind before she could be mindful, and she tended to skim the surface of anything she was supposedly "learning" so her interpretation of mindfulness would be unlikely to relate to the actual concept.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Aug 25 - 10:17 AM

The library I retired from had horrible management the last few years. And at one point people from the administration office went to some kind of retreat that involved sharing personal stuff and it would somehow engender good feelings. With no background they started running those kinds of sessions in our regular meeting room, and asking people to share deep dark secrets. A department co-worker had signed up thinking it was required and I remember advising them to back out, that they had no business trying to run something like that. Others must have expressed the same concern because those sessions vanished off of the calendar. Even with the best of intentions those things can go awry. You said your nosy neighbor runs a weekly happy hour? Is there some other event you can participate in, or arrange informally, to meet some of the others in your community? You said you aren't playing piano any more, but if you were, would people join in singing?

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 25 - 09:09 AM

Preserve the contentment of your selected community. People who gossip about other people's issues are generally less interesting than people who discuss ideas. You can change the subject yourself or be disinterested in the gossip/accusations. Influencers come and go. Water will eventually find its own level in your positive community of choice, so don't let yourself become intimidated. There are issues worth fighting for, but this doesn't sound like trouble worth fighting. Nobody is perfect. Let a blip be a blip.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Helen
Date: 24 Aug 25 - 02:55 PM

keberoxu, one of the issues with either working for a large department or, in your case, moving into a retirement facility is that you don't get to choose the other people you have to associate with. You have been able to reset your life and make some positive changes and it appears that the future is looking bright for you. You should be able to follow the path which is right for you without interference from someone with her own agenda. (I suspect she might fit my category of COTUS - Centre of the Universe Syndrome. :-) )

I think it is your right to set reasonable boundaries and to uphold them and from what you have told us, it seems like this woman doesn't respect boundaries. No-one should have the power to pressure anyone else to either reveal or discuss personal issues with them, especially if it is none of their business, and I suspect she tries to start these conversations when other people are nearby so there is a risk of a number of other people knowing your business.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Aug 25 - 01:52 PM

Unfortunately Helen is on the right track here.
This one is a known manipulator.
She directs the weekly happy hour before Tuesday dinner,
and makes everyone else's business her business.
No more weekly happy hours for me, I think.

I think SRS is right as well, about going after the "new kid".
So it's going to be a little unpleasant but I have to set boundaries.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 24 Aug 25 - 12:08 PM

Hm. Saga time ....

I had (and have) a problem with dealing with conflict. At my last-but-one place of work, one colleague had a tendency to speak *at* underlings; one piece of work I was doing for him wasn't going so well, so I had nothing to take to him, so he would visit my office and be loudly unhappy. What broke me out of the cycle was plucking up the courage to walk into his office first thing one morning, and say "Right --- how are we going to deal with this wretched problem?" After that, he was on my side.

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Aug 25 - 06:56 AM

..... or music in general, if singing in a choir is too specific

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Aug 25 - 06:48 AM

This person might be trying to be friendly but have poor social skills. Rather than cutting them off with a curt "No thanks. I'm not interested", why not change the subject to something you enjoy - singing in a choir, for example. You never know, you might find a common interest somewhere along the way.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Aug 25 - 06:58 PM

She would give me the creeps also! I concur with Helen's theory - if you're the "new kid" and subjected to her scrutiny, it's a matter of standing your ground.

There's a guy I follow on Instagram named Jefferson Fisher whose short clips offer tips on how to interact with people who cause problems. I'm sure you've had enough of these kinds of discussions in therapy that none of it is new, but maybe one or two would be a reminder of what try (or try next.) He's a trial lawyer who discusses communicating and setting boundaries. If you can't simply walk away from her to deliver the lack of interest message, then maybe something else in there would help.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Helen
Date: 23 Aug 25 - 05:49 PM

When I was working in the library I read a book by Dr Winnifred Cutler which changed my perspective on negotiating with people to get what I wanted or needed, instead of feeling obliged to agree to other people's demands. It still stands out in my mind as one of the best books I have ever read.

Note: There is no hidden message in my recommending this book, given it is about courtship. The important lessons I learned are similar to what this woman said on the review page:

"A Story from "Freida" who learned to follow the Code of Courtship:

"Frieda was 38 when she attended a workshop and explored her history with men. As she did, she recognized that her problem centered on principles four and five. When men began to show interest in her, she would typically respond with pretty much whatever they wanted. Her usual experience was to receive a phone call on a Friday afternoon from a new or not so new man who would ask her what she was doing this weekend. And usually the truth was she had no plans.

"Then when the man would suggest that they get together, although she felt uneasy about it, she would agree to see him at the last minute. She didn't like this, but didn't know how to change it. Through the exercises that follow, she learned how to communicate what she wanted. More important, she strengthened her capacity for self-control and her dignity by taking command of her calendar. Her life changed dramatically."

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Helen
Date: 23 Aug 25 - 04:30 PM

Ah keberoxu, that reminds me of when I was going through a very tough time dealing with a workplace bully who was my manager.

I went to a women's group event which was supposed to be a celebration and a chance to socialise with good people and a woman I didn't know sat next to me at the lunch table. She suddenly started giving me an unwanted psychic reading, in front of everyone else at the table. I was so upset already about the months of bullying and then about her invading my psychological space without my permission. I jumped up from the table and went to the bathroom and cried my eyes out. I was so angry that she thought she had the right to launch into this invasion of my private space.

Negotiating with others who are invading our private space is not easy, but it can be done. I went to an assertiveness training session many years ago and it was very helpful. One tip was never to say "sorry" at the beginning of a statement about not wanting to comply with a request because it gives the other person a chance to continue the conversation. If someone asks you to go to lunch tomorrow, for example, and you don't want to go anywhere with them, don't say, "Sorry, I can't make it tomorrow" because they will say, "How about the next day?" and so on. It is a clearer communication to just say, "No thanks. I'm not interested".

Then polite but assertive repetition is a good tactic, e.g. "No thanks. I'm not interested" in response to any attempts the other person makes to repeatedly put pressure on changing your mind. Quiet but firm is the best tactic that I have found.

I also find it helpful to think through my tactics. I often write it down and then clarify my thoughts and reduce them to one or two statements which I can repeat as often as necessary until the other person gets the message.

I suspect you are the latest target in a long line - newcomer to the home and someone she sees as a possible new person to bother because all the others have sent her and her behaviour away.

Keep calm and work out your tactics.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Aug 25 - 02:58 PM

A fellow resident at the retirement home is getting on my nerves.
It is keeping me awake at night because the encounters are triggering for me.
This woman is very persuasive, even seductive, about insinuating herself into someone else's life.
I have been very short with her, yet she persists in trying to get me to open up.
She gives me the creeps, frankly.
For one thing, she has given me too much information that I didn't ask for.
She sat down next to me one day to tell me all about the drama of her childhood, concluding with the fact that she grew up to become a counselor. Then she asked if my childhood was worse than hers. I didn't say much.
I honestly was not prepared to open up and spill my stuff,
and the more she pressures me, the less I trust her.

I'm afraid I will have to confront her and tell her, no more of this.
After all, I can't change her behavior, but I can change mine,
and up to this point I have just been stubbornly withholding without confronting her about how icky she makes me feel.
Because she has been so persistent about pursuing me and getting stuff out of me,
I expect her to resist and persist with me, which won't be nice.
But I have to be firm and make clear that
I know that she is trying to lead me somewhere, and
that she will not lead me one step further on this particular path.
I don't look forward to this, but I have to do it if I want to get some sleep at night.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Aug 25 - 01:12 PM

Tomorrow the new mattress is delivered,
while the old mattress and box springs are removed.

My right hand is healing nicely, if slowly.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Aug 25 - 12:48 PM

Today seems to be one for problem solving. I looked out at the curb to see if my trash can had been emptied yet - not only was it still full, all of the other trash along the street had been picked up. I moved my can back up the driveway, but a few minutes later the dogs barking alerted me to the trash truck parked at the bottom of the driveway. It seems they're one man short so had picked up only one side and the house next door on my side. Quick handoff and that bag is gone (was going to get stinky with several meat wrappers).

Telemedicine counselling appointment call didn't happen as expected, my call to ask about it looped through their recorded message a couple of times and got a tongue tied phone clerk who finally said their system is down, they'll contact me when they can reschedule.

My paycheck from my part-time job arrived, but it hadn't been signed by the boss (it was already a week late.) Oops, they'll resend tomorrow.

I kind of hate to guess at what might be next, it isn't even noon yet.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 05:52 PM

Good thing you have a nurse handy to take care of that! Keep it dry!

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Aug 25 - 05:43 PM

I'm supposed to be staying out of trouble, but stuff happens.
Yesterday I was taking my newly cleaned clothes off of the wire hangers that they come back on. The wire hanger scratched the back of my hand, maybe two inches, or a little less. My skin is thinner than it used to be. I now have these adhesive strips holding the cut skin together, thanks to the retirement community nurse. They are not supposed to get wet. I was given those thin disposable gloves to use when I need to wash. It doesn't hurt, as long as I don't touch it.

I feel stupid for being so clumsy with the hanger.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Aug 25 - 01:56 PM

You should be able to offer it for free on local message groups if you participate in any, or know someone who could list it for you. I'm sorry toppers weren't helpful!

Sweet dreams!

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Aug 25 - 01:39 PM

I just paid for a new mattress, to replace the one that is too hard and stiff.
Now to set up delivery, along with disposal of my old mattress.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Aug 25 - 08:15 AM

Still taking some meals at the treatment center dining hall, with its buffet servery.

The dishwasher is being replaced over the next three days, so we have to eat with disposable dishes and utensils, as nothing can be washed until the new dishwasher is installed in the dining hall kitchen. Not a big deal, just a little different than we're used to.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Aug 25 - 12:45 AM

That just makes sense, Keb. I remember a book my parents had that I thought was odd, until Mom explained that the "Plots of the Operas" (ancient book by now) helped them understand what was going on when they listened to the Met Opera on the radio on Saturdays.

I went with friends to see a Shakespeare play, can't remember which now, but I had read it, and have to say they figured out one way to deal with not having read it. They put me in the middle between them and took turns leaning in to ask me what was happening. I pity the people behind us. Unless they didn't know either and were listening to the answers.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Aug 25 - 08:01 PM

Two months ago, I posted a message about "Camino Real,"
the Tennessee Williams play that I anticipated seeing in performance.

The performance happened last month.
I was with a group of ten to fifteen people who went together in a small van.
The play's reputation is deserved: it is long and difficult, and hard to understand.
I was actually very entertained by the whole thing, I believe this is because
I prepared for the experience, reading the play thoroughly and reading some commentaries and analyses of the play.

Others in my group were not thus prepared for the play,
and I recall one woman who was so frustrated by the experience of sitting through the play
that she lashed out in anger afterwards.
Our van driver (who went out for pizza while waiting for us)
asked the woman, "What was it about?"
And the woman snarled, "NOTHING! It was about NOTHING!"

Well, I knew that "Camino Real" would have some people scratching their heads in puzzlement, it's that type of play.
And it is likely that I won't see it again anywhere.
So I am grateful to have seen the play at all in any production.

I think of the play as a metaphor for purgatory, for a plane of existence
which attracts people whose lives are over, and who are still earthbound,
still attached to the lives that they lived.
The play takes place over one night, and part of a morning, in its setting.
And one can imagine the lost souls who populate the place
re-enacting the same events day after day, unable to break the cycle.
There are two or three characters in the play who transcend the setting
and move on;
two of them do so together at the end of the play,
making for an upbeat ending.
Like I say, I'm glad I saw it once in my life.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Aug 25 - 04:04 PM

The performers last night were the Tanglewood Music Center Fellows,
only here for the summer.
It was their big finale, and now they all go back home.

I am still very near the chorus that I sing with,
so I'm planning to be back in the second soprano section in September.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Aug 25 - 12:30 PM

Is the group you heard perform one you're thinking of joining? Are you still near the group you've rehearsed and performed with in the last couple of years?

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Aug 25 - 08:49 AM

Last night I attended a concert (not staged) performance of
Ravel's "L'Enfant et les Sortileges," a one-act opera.
Ravel only composed two operas, both brief,
and both crammed with difficulties;
I think this one is the more difficult of the two.
I can just imagine what rehearsals were like:
a rehearsal pianist scrambling to keep up with the arrangement
of a fiendishly difficult orchestration;
and singers having to repeat and repeat their sung lines.
You come out of rehearsals like that
with the music partly memorized and ringing in your ears.

Then you perform it once, and poof! it's all over.

Subject: RE: BS: stay out of trouble thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Aug 25 - 10:51 AM

I am haunted by an account that was given by a treatment center alumnus
during a panel presentation to the reunion attendees yesterday.

Some people seem to have lives like a drama or an opera.
This one alumnus suffers from a degenerative nerve disorder and
has been in and out of hospitals all their life.
I got to know this person a little, as they were still in treatment
when I arrived, then they discharged.

I was unaware that, in the past year or two,
the alumnus was nearly killed while using a crosswalk to cross the street. A car struck the person in the crosswalk.
They were using an electric scooter, since the disorder affects their mobility,
and so were wearing a helmet, which saved their life.
Hearing this story kept me awake last night.