Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)

Subject: This Wheel's on fire
From: Nick Dow
Date: 01 Jun 25 - 06:35 AM

Anybody got a clue what the lyrics mean?

Subject: RE: This Wheels on fire
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 01 Jun 25 - 08:47 AM

Not sure that it means anything in particular. But as a succession of verbal images may be it aims to lead the listener towards their own interpretation. Is asking for the meaning a bit like asking Picasso what his paintings mean? Or perhaps I'm talking complete pseudo-intellectual bo**ocks too.

However, Dylan does seem to be good at this type of writing though it's hard to pin-point why. Many others tried it too, very few could match him. And despite being a massive Beatles fan, I think that their attempts pale drastically in comparison and verge, sometimes solidly, on the pretentious.

Subject: RE: This Wheels on fire
From: Nick Dow
Date: 01 Jun 25 - 09:20 AM

Yes I sort of thought that as well. I assume you are referring to 'I am the Walrus.' Any body disagree?

Subject: RE: This Wheels on fire
From: GUEST,Roderick A Warner
Date: 01 Jun 25 - 10:35 AM

‘With no attempt to shovel the glimpse into the ditch of what each one means.’ As it were…

Subject: RE: This Wheels on fire
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 25 - 10:43 AM

Agreed about IATW. I think the Beatles just chucked any bunch of phrases together with very little thought about meaning. They were saved of course by their melodies, arrangements, harmonies etc. It didn't really matter what they were trying to say. 'Sun King' is a clear example. MaCartney admitted it was just faux Spanish. Sorry, gone off topic.

Subject: RE: This Wheels on fire
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 01 Jun 25 - 10:49 AM

MaJoC's €0.02:

You may find the parodies (eg my filk "Disk's on Fire") make more sense, as they're usually about something. The original doesn't have to: it's *poetry*.

Subject: ADD: This Wheel's on Fire (Bob Dylan)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jun 25 - 05:47 PM

The song has a Wikipedia page, for better or worse:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Wheel%27s_on_Fire

THIS WHEEL'S ON FIRE
(Written by: Bob Dylan and Rick Danko)

If your mem’ry serves you well
We were goin’ to meet again and wait
So I’m goin’ to unpack all my things
And sit before it gets too late
No man alive will come to you
With another tale to tell
But you know that we shall meet again
If your mem’ry serves you well

This wheel’s on fire
Rolling down the road
Best notify my next of kin
This wheel shall explode!


If your mem’ry serves you well
I was goin’ to confiscate your lace
And wrap it up in a sailor’s knot
And hide it in your case
If I knew for sure that it was yours . . .
But it was oh so hard to tell
But you knew that we would meet again
If your mem’ry serves you well

This wheel’s on fire
Rolling down the road
Best notify my next of kin
This wheel shall explode!

If your mem’ry serves you well
You’ll remember you’re the one
That called on me to call on them
To get you your favors done
And after ev’ry plan had failed
And there was nothing more to tell
You knew that we would meet again
If your mem’ry served you well

This wheel’s on fire
Rolling down the road
Best notify my next of kin
This wheel shall explode!


Copyright © 1967 by Dwarf Music; renewed 1995 by Dwarf Music
Source: https://www.bobdylan.com/songs/wheels-fire/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5LSIBUT1ds

Subject: RE: This Wheels on fire
From: GUEST,Jim mclean
Date: 01 Jun 25 - 05:49 PM

Typical obscurantist stuff which diehard fans see as poetry.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: GerryM
Date: 01 Jun 25 - 06:29 PM

Once we've worked out what Wheels on Fire means, we can get started on Farewell Angelina, and It's All Over Now Baby Blue, and Visions of Johanna, and and and ....

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: G-Force
Date: 02 Jun 25 - 04:27 AM

Written by: Bob Dylan and Rick Danko

Of course the words are pure Bob. It was Rick Danko who was given the task of setting it to music, which he did memorably well, although on the original release of The Band's first album it was only credited to Dylan.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 Jun 25 - 07:26 AM

Just out of interest, is there a reason why the meaning of lyrics, written 58 years ago, have popped up for discussion in 2025? Has something of significance happened recently to make it topical?

I'm not saying that it shouldn't be discussed. I'm just curious as to why now.

DC

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: GerryM
Date: 02 Jun 25 - 08:44 AM

Doug, just last week, I wanted to know the meaning of some lyrics in Robert Johnson's song, Come On In My Kitchen ("dry long so", anyone? "nation sack"?). That song isn't just older than Dylan's Wheels on Fire, it's older than Dylan.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 02 Jun 25 - 10:08 AM

I accidently tuned into an old programme on Sky and watched Julie Driscoll singing the song. I realised that I knew the lyrics and suddenly thought it might be nice to know what, if anything they meant. It was that or watch the local news. I thought the song might make more sense than the news. (Blimey! that might cause a bit of thread drift Sorry!)

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Pappy Fiddle
Date: 02 Jun 25 - 10:34 AM

People been singin' nonsense since the dawn of time. A jazz combo with drums, bass, guitar & a singer goin' "buh bee bop dooby doo dodly dum..." etc. It's basically instrumental music using a human mouth instead of a sax or whatever. Here's the quintessential example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiAd2NgdEKI

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 02 Jun 25 - 01:21 PM

Wonder what Dylan would have to say about that! He probably isn't reading this thread. Can't think why.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 02 Jun 25 - 02:41 PM

June Tabor recorded it in 1990. I will admit to never having heard her version! I should tie myself up in a sailors knot and hide in a case in shame.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 02 Jun 25 - 05:46 PM

He came up with this one shortly after Cream’s ‘Wheels of Fire’ album, as I recall, and I wonder whether he just liked that notion of moving so fast your wheels catch fire. The verses tell a confused narrative, but the chorus seems to be more steam of consciousness lyrics of no particular relevance, unless it harks back to “the wheel’s still in spin” in The Times They Are A-Changin’. Sometimes the rhythm of words and their vowel sounds just works when singing, even if they actually make little sense….Johnny Mercer said similar about “my huckleberry friend’” in “Moon River”.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 02 Jun 25 - 06:50 PM

As good a theory as any. There are some Biblical theories online, but I thought I would spare you (for now).

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 Jun 25 - 08:17 PM

Interesting context ... given recent "flame-thrower" attack in Boulder,CO.

Ezekiel 1:1-48:22...

Christians, Moslem, Israel,

Sincerely,
Gargoyle
Strange>

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: mayomick
Date: 03 Jun 25 - 09:49 AM

I wouldn’t even attempt to shovel a glimpse into the ditch of what Wheels on Fire means

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 03 Jun 25 - 01:35 PM

And I thought Dylan was obscure. I'm off to find a shovel.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: mayomick
Date: 03 Jun 25 - 02:15 PM

it was an obscure reference to another obscure Bob Dylan song , The Gates of Eden .

"At dawn my lover comes to me
And tells me of her dreams
With no attempts to shovel the glimpse
Into the ditch of what each one means"

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 03 Jun 25 - 05:19 PM

In the sleeve notes of one of his early albums, he admitted that his words weren’t so much songs or poems, as “exercises in tonal breath control”, which I thought summed up the stream of consciousness style of writing very well, plus sent out a clear message - don’t waste your (precious) time trying to read meaning into some of this stuff.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 03 Jun 25 - 05:51 PM

Thanks Jerry. That makes me wonder why so many people have found his songs so compulsive. Maybe the words are there to carry the tune and nothing more in some songs. A bit hard to accept but maybe you are right.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 04:22 AM

I suppose he gained a reputation for turning out songs with meaning, like the protest anthems, but when he had had enough of that and tried other styles, people continued to look for special meanings when there weren’t always any. Those of us steeped in folksong probably expect all songs to tell a story or to have some particular message, but surely popular song is often only about expressing a simple emotion, and sometimes not even that.

As for nonsense words to simply carry a tune, like ‘da do ron ron’, we have plenty similar in folksong, like ‘hey, nonny, nonny’ and ‘Derry, Derry, down’, and few of us want to devote time and energy into analysing what such words actually mean. I think I prefer actual words, even if they do introduce some confusion, eg ‘Say hello to Vivian, say hello to Valerie, give her all my salary, on the waters of oblivion’ (also on the Basement Tapes) which is surely just a bit of nonsense and playful rhyming??

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: mayomick
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 05:53 AM

“exercises in tonal breath control” that's a good one.   An acquaintance- a Dylan fan interestingly - once assured me that the act of sex was “only a bodily function”.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: GUEST,Roderick A Warner
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 07:31 AM

The lyrics mean what you want them to. Dylan detractors will detract, Dylan lovers will love… as a further comment I leave the above for pondering - or not. The late Geoffrey Hill, one of the great English poets, wrote the following:

‘ Accessible is a perfectly good word if applied to supermarket aisles, art galleries, polling stations and public lavatories, but it has no place in discussion of poetry and poetics. Human beings are difficult. We’re difficult to ourselves; we’re difficult to each other and we are mysteries to ourselves; we are mysteries to each other. One encounters in any ordinary day far more real difficulty than one confronts in the most “intellectual” piece of work. Why is it believed that poetry, prose, painting, music should be less than we are? Why does music, why does poetry have to address us in simplified terms, when, if such simplifications were applied to our own inner selves, we would find it demeaning?’

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 09:27 AM

So if we don't understand, it's our fault not the writer? Try this bit of academia and see how far you get and how demeaned you feel.

'If, for a while, the ruse of desire is calculable for the uses of discipline soon the repetition of guilt, justification, pseudo-scientific theories, superstition, spurious authorities, and classifications can be seen as the desperate effort to “normalize” formally the disturbance of a discourse of splitting that violates the rational, enlightened claims of its enunciatory modality.'

What was I reading about shovels and ditches?

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: mayomick
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 10:35 AM

Fortunately Homi Bhabha never turned his hand to writing dylanesque poetry

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: meself
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 11:00 AM

Well, if your work isn't "accessible", just don't complain when people don't access it, that's all.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 12:01 PM

Couldn't put it better. I'm beginning to think Dylan couldn't either.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: mayomick
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 12:42 PM

I doubt if Dylan would complain. He made a lot of money out of people accessing his songs whether or not they understood or thought they understood the meanings

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 01:44 PM

So money before general accessibility or correct communication! A low opinion of Dylan then?

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 04:12 PM

With regard to others using Dylan's songs, I think what makes them so coverable is that they are like a blank canvass. Not even Dylan himself sticks to his original arrangements. They stand up very well to many different types of treatment. Dylan is not unique in this respect but the size of his body of work and the variety of styles that can be applied to it is distinctive. It's a quality perhaps in common with traditional songs.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 04 Jun 25 - 06:14 PM

Good point.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: mayomick
Date: 05 Jun 25 - 07:53 AM

Nick Dow , Bob Dylan didnt have anything of substance to communicate in my opinion other than his personal angst- which he does communicate very well in songs that the angst-ridden can identify with . Perhaps the obscurity of his lyrics partly comes from the fact that he hasn’t anything much to say - compared for example to Ewan MacColl


But he does express nihilism well though and with such venom and conviction that it comes across as meaningful lol

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 05 Jun 25 - 02:41 PM

My take on Dylan songs is that they lend themselves to instrumental breaks so we'll. Look what the Nice did with "She belongs to me".
The lyrics take a back seat as far as I am concerned, and many of the tunes are excellent building blocks for improvisation. One of my favourites to play with my group in Somerset was "Knocking on Heaven's door", or as we called it "The Welsh song".
Robin

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Fred
Date: 05 Jun 25 - 03:09 PM

In an interview I saw, a lady asked Dylan what his lyrics mean. He answered that they don't mean anything.

You can read into them whatever you want but that's you not him.

Fred

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 05 Jun 25 - 05:19 PM

Well that's that then. I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed. However I think this thread has been worthwhile. It has introduced me to Geoffrey Hill and his word soup, not to mention his rather arrogant dismissal of accessibility as being suitable for public lavatories. Funny I quite like the turn of phrase of the accessible lessor mortal William Shakespeare but what do I know.
I have enjoyed some of the interesting comments about Dylan's poetry and musical intention, and I suppose I should remember that 'The Emperor is in the altogether!' It caught me out as the Wheel exploded.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Fred
Date: 06 Jun 25 - 02:57 AM

Nick -

Not necessarily - Bob could've been less than honest :)

Fred

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Fred
Date: 06 Jun 25 - 03:02 AM

Nick -

To your "Well that's that then" I mean.

Fred

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 06 Jun 25 - 08:04 AM

Lol.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: meself
Date: 06 Jun 25 - 11:33 AM

To be fair, and whatever you may think of Dylan, many, if not most, poetic types avoid giving explications of their work.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: rich-joy
Date: 06 Jun 25 - 07:34 PM

Still love this song (from final year of senior high, so that's understandable, LoL!) - and I miss Our Jools.

Here are Tony Attwood's thoughts (and his readers') :
https://bob-dylan.org.uk/archives/383
"This Wheels on Fire. If you’re memory serves you well, you’ll know this is a masterpiece" [sic] Posted on July 3, 2013 by Tony Attwood

Where's Little Hawk when you need him!!!!

Cheers, R-J

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Jun 25 - 09:15 AM

> many, if not most, poetic types avoid giving
> explications of their work.

One exception (whose name I am relieved to have forgotten) used to litter his poems with explanatory footnotes, which often doubled the length of the text.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: GUEST,Roderick A Warner
Date: 07 Jun 25 - 09:52 AM

One person’s word soup is another’s resonant work of genius. It was ever thus…
Geoffrey Hill, in his last book, has elements of hip hop entering in places, a man with his ears open and a nice glancing riff on the possible role of rhyme in contemporary poetry, dead since Hart Crane. A fiery radical condemnation of the contemporary world in which he even bigs up a retro-ideologue like Corbyn, which I find amusing. But great poets display their ‘negative capabilities’ on their own grounds. ‘How ill white hairs become a fool and jester’ would be nearer to my opinion. Hill was a complex man from a working class background who was obsessed with language ( he spoke several) music and art. And not a bad singer, to work in a ‘folkie’ reference: in one of his lectures (easily found) he offers a creditable and poignant version of ‘Fare Thee Well.’
Poetic difficulty? A remark he made about so called obscurity was that in the modern world, if you have internet access you can figure most things out. In any language… An example would be The Cantos of Ezra Pound which have a massive commentary online easily found… Hill was a gloriously cranky old git well-tuned in to the contemporary world and redeemed by his generosity of spirit and his poetry… Slurp…
Re McColl, some of whose work I like, Dylan was much the greater singer songwriter because he escaped the confines of the ideologues of the bourgeois left typified by the likes of good old Pete Seeger. McColl was no musician and much of his work suffered from the dreadful clunking banjo of his partner, almost a symbol of his politics. A pity because I think if he had teamed up with someone more imaginative he could have taken his work to other levels. Someone like Ruth Crawford Seeger, for example, the real musical giant in that family, sadly gone before her time.
But it’s a complex world, mes copins… hurrah for soup, wordy or otherwise… and
alternatives - the dullard Larkin’s parochial pushbike or wheels of fire…
slurp the last…

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: meself
Date: 07 Jun 25 - 10:23 AM

"slurp the last…" ??

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Jun 25 - 10:48 AM

> "slurp the last…" ??

From the Jargon File definition of glark:

"This gubblick contains many nonsklarkish English flutzpahs, but the overall pluggandisp can be glorked [sic] from context" (David Moser)

Meanwhile, back at the argument, I'd rather something be pure word salad than a possibly-subliminal command like "Hear him whip the women just around midnight". I've no idea whether those bellowing out the lyrics on the dance floor when bopping to Brown Sugar realise what they're actually (for lack of a better word) singing. But picking apart those lyrics is a matter for a different thread.

Subject: RE: Meaning: This Wheel's on Fire (Dylan)
From: Nick Dow
Date: 07 Jun 25 - 02:23 PM

So there!