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BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 09 Feb 26 - 06:33 AM Better odds available on SkyBet Conservatives 275:1 (same for Lib Dems) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 09 Feb 26 - 03:41 AM The green party are clear favourites to win gorton bye , conservatives are 250 to one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 06 Feb 26 - 03:12 PM That well-known and thoroughly-discredited last resort of the habitual nit-picker - when you have no credible answer to your opponent’s argument, attack his use of language and/or spelling. If you read my response you will see that I made clear that 'I do not agree with his assertions.' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 06 Feb 26 - 12:20 PM That well-known and thoroughly-discredited last resort of the habitual nit-picker - when you have no credible answer to your opponent’s argument, attack his use of language and/or spelling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 06 Feb 26 - 07:46 AM I'm guessing that you meant: I don't think you will (find) many in the ranks of Labour supporters who would try and justify the actions of the individuals you mention Nigel. However when similar accusations And while I can make the effort to try to understand what you mean, I don't agree with your assertions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Raggytash Date: 06 Feb 26 - 06:38 AM Oh Nigel, I'm sure you understand my post all too well. I fear you are being deliberately obtuse so you may avoid the truth of what I posted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 06 Feb 26 - 03:13 AM When does a scrambled egg finish and and an omelette begin? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 05 Feb 26 - 07:53 PM I don't think you will many in the ranks of Labour supporters who would try and justify the actions of the individuals you mention Nigel. However when similar accusations where levelled at members of conservative governments hordes of you fellow conservatives sought to justify their actions. I'm not sure I follow your meaning (English language?) However, Backwoodsman agrees with you! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 05 Feb 26 - 12:31 PM ”I don't think you will many in the ranks of Labour supporters who would try and justify the actions of the individuals you mention Nigel. However when similar accusations were levelled at members of conservative governments hordes of you fellow conservatives sought to justify their actions.” Yep, precisely my point, Raggy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Raggytash Date: 05 Feb 26 - 11:11 AM "Mine is not 'just my opinion'. Rachel Reeves has been clearly shown to have lied on her c.v. and in her electoral statements. Ex-Deputy leader, Rayner was avoiding tax, by lying. Starmer assured Parliament that due process had been followed in appointing Mandelson (although he now says that during that due process he was happy to rely on lies from Mandelson). Mandelson? Well, even the 'current' PM says he's a liar . . ." I don't think you will many in the ranks of Labour supporters who would try and justify the actions of the individuals you mention Nigel. However when similar accusations where levelled at members of conservative governments hordes of you fellow conservatives sought to justify their actions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Feb 26 - 11:03 AM . . .and should not be able to find a PM naïve enough to accept his lies at face value. Very true, Nigel. If naivete is what it was. Spin doctors are very useful until they get found out. I suspect Mandleson looked like the ideal ambassador for Trump's USA. In either case it was bad judgement on Starmer's part but he was not the first and will not be the last to fall for their own spin! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 05 Feb 26 - 10:53 AM Nigel, my comment was intended to be light-hearted - maybe you need to grow a SoH? ;-) A supporter of the Tories (and, if my suspicionss are correct, Reform UK Ltd, the limited company pretending to be a political party) should really hold back from trying to take the high ground over politicians' lies - the lies put about by your (two?) parties are well-documented and are legion. Glass-houses, stones, etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 05 Feb 26 - 10:34 AM Anyone who can make a living from turning facts on their heads and creating stories from the flimsiest of sources should never have been in such a position of power in the first place . . .and should not be able to find a PM naïve enough to accept his lies at face value. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 05 Feb 26 - 09:33 AM Your opinion, Nigel. And, as we both know, opinions are like arse-holes - everybody has one! Just as the comment I replied to was just your opinion. But I avoid unnecessary crudities. Mine is not 'just my opinion'. Rachel Reeves has been clearly shown to have lied on her c.v. and in her electoral statements. Ex-Deputy leader, Rayner was avoiding tax, by lying. Starmer assured Parliament that due process had been followed in appointing Mandelson (although he now says that during that due process he was happy to rely on lies from Mandelson). Mandelson? Well, even the 'current' PM says he's a liar . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Feb 26 - 09:31 AM Not just much of the Labour party, Nigel. Sadly, many politicians are of the same ilk nowadays. I am not sure where it all started but Blair wond with a massive populist manufesto and it has got steadily worse since. I think BWM has mentioned the ultimate snake oil salesman though, although I am not sure if Farage learned from Johnson or vice-versa. As to Mandleson, Well, he was one of the first people to whom the term spin doctor was applied. Anyone who can make a living from turning facts on their heads and creating stories from the flimsiest of sources should never have been in such a position of power in the first place. Dominic Cummins next??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 05 Feb 26 - 08:46 AM Your opinion, Nigel. And, as we both know, opinions are like arse-holes - everybody has one! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 05 Feb 26 - 07:19 AM ”I do not trust the man and I do not believe the man." The same could easily be said about Farage. In fact, about the whole Reform UK Limited company posing as a political party Also much of the Labour party! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 05 Feb 26 - 02:59 AM ”I do not trust the man and I do not believe the man." The same could easily be said about Farage. In fact, about the whole Reform UK Limited company posing as a political party - especially since the mass defections of some of the worst elements of the Tory party, who were instrumental in creating the shit-show we were left with in 2024. FWIW, I’ve also thought, for many years, that there was something very unsavoury and ‘wrong’ about Mandelson. I wouldn’t have trusted him as far as I could spit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 05 Feb 26 - 02:01 AM Starmer under great pressure regarding ill fated Mandelson appointment following Epstein revelations Who knows what happens next ~ replacements in the wings queuing up Farage seen as in Trump terms Liberals regaining ground; Greens re emergence Tories still there but so defections to Farage ~ far right party? Ray too many parties can distort future of politics! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 04 Feb 26 - 09:17 PM Jeremy Corbyn said (of Peter Mandelson) "Under my leadership of the Labour Party, Peter Mandelson had no role, no influence and no part to play, because I do not trust the man and I do not believe the man." Labour Party, take note. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 04 Feb 26 - 12:39 PM Backwoodsman: You quote "From Daniel Lismore (UK-based artist, designer & perfumer) on his FB Page… “Polls say Reform voters are the least educated. Polling consistently shows that Reform UK draws its strongest support from voters with lower levels of formal educational attainment. That fact matters. Not as a slur, but because it helps explain a pattern that keeps repeating. I saw that polling, but could find no evidence that 'weighting' had been applied to the figures. A quick Google for percentage of entrants to 'higher education' gives the following: Higher education (HE) entry in the UK has grown significantly, rising from ~3% in the 1950s to ~8% in 1970, ~19% by 1990, and peaking near 50% by the late 2010s. Recent data shows 18-year-old entry rates increased from 24.7% in 2006 to a 38.2% peak in 2021, settling at 36.3% in 2025. The House of Commons Library So if Reform are supported mainly by the older generation then that will always mean that those supporters will have lower levels of 'education', but higher levels of life experience. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 04 Feb 26 - 02:28 AM yes, but nnly those who voted for him |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 03 Feb 26 - 03:49 AM Are they really such dumb-f*cks that they don’t realise those billions aren’t ‘flowing into the US’, they are flowing straight out of their own pockets? QUOTE Yes |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 03 Feb 26 - 03:07 AM ”Time will tell if the high costs being extorted from US population by tariff imposition was worth while!” And all the while, he’s telling the Magats that his tariffs have brought “Billions of dollars flowing into the US”. Are they really such dumb-f*cks that they don’t realise those billions aren’t ‘flowing into the US’, they are flowing straight out of their own pockets? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 02 Feb 26 - 03:56 AM So Sir Keir has been making deals with China, due to Big T's attitude to Tariffs Indeed many countries are appalled at the yet to be proved legitimacy of the confetti tariffs being weaponised Time will tell if the high costs being extorted from US population by tariff imposition was worth while! Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 02 Feb 26 - 03:50 AM I am pleased Mandelson has resigned |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Jan 26 - 05:16 AM No probs Ray! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 30 Jan 26 - 04:38 AM O sorry misunderstood ~ yes I have it and have re read the content Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Jan 26 - 02:21 AM Does that matter Ray? I posted the text in full above, have you read it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 30 Jan 26 - 01:37 AM I am blocked by fb ~ so the link above I am unable to access Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 29 Jan 26 - 12:29 PM From Daniel Lismore (UK-based artist, designer & perfumer) on his FB Page… “Polls say Reform voters are the least educated. Polling consistently shows that Reform UK draws its strongest support from voters with lower levels of formal educational attainment. That fact matters. Not as a slur, but because it helps explain a pattern that keeps repeating. Reform supporters are being told, clearly and repeatedly, what the party’s policies would mean in practice. They are being told that Reform supports weaker worker protections, a rollback of human rights safeguards, cuts to public spending, and a shift away from universal healthcare toward systems where individuals pay more themselves. They are being told that council taxes are rising under Reform-run councils despite explicit promises that they would not. They are being told that the party is dominated by former Conservative figures whose last period in power left the country poorer and public services weaker. And yet many supporters refuse to engage with these facts. Instead, warnings are dismissed as “establishment lies” while the same political figures are trusted again, even when the consequences are spelled out in advance. This is not confidence. It is avoidance. There is a psychological pattern at work. When people are under sustained economic pressure, anxious about the future, and angry at a system that has failed them, simple narratives become comforting. Blame is redirected outward. Immigrants. Protesters. Cultural enemies. The promise offered is emotional relief rather than material improvement. This is why Reform’s messaging prioritises grievance over detail. The party does not need supporters to understand policy. It needs them to remain angry long enough not to look too closely. The uncomfortable reality is that Reform’s policies would hit its own voter base hardest. People on lower incomes rely most on public healthcare. They are least able to absorb higher costs when services are privatised or withdrawn. They are most exposed to cuts in legal protections, benefit changes, council tax rises, and the erosion of local services. Reform’s politics depends on keeping that contradiction unresolved. As long as supporters stay locked in outrage, they are spared the moment of reckoning where they have to confront what is actually being offered to them: less security, fewer protections, higher costs, and a thinner safety net, all repackaged as freedom. That is not empowerment. It is control. Anger is being used as a distraction from policies that would leave people poorer, sicker, and more exposed. And the more uncomfortable that truth becomes, the louder the shouting gets. This is not about intelligence. It is about manipulation. And the people being manipulated will be the first to pay the price. Reform’s model depends on confusion. Fear is the glue. Outrage is the shield. Because once voters understand what Reform actually proposes, the support does not harden. It collapses.” For the non-Facebookphobes, here is DL’s original FB post. I find myself persuaded by his arguments… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 27 Jan 26 - 06:18 AM IMV Farage is a Big T man ~ do we in UK need US methods ~ well I certainly hope not Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 26 Jan 26 - 07:32 AM Suella Braverman is the latest rat to desert the sinking Conservative ship… BBC News - Braverman Defects to Reform UK Ltd I wonder if it’s occurred to all those Deform UK supporters who claim that the UK needs radical change that their Party is filling up with the very bunch whose political, economic, and financial mis-rule got us into this mess in the first place? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 26 Jan 26 - 01:47 AM No threat then to Starmer's reign as PM Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Jan 26 - 12:02 PM ‘Labour’ on its usual road to self-destruction. The Deformers will be hugging themselves with glee! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Aethelric Date: 25 Jan 26 - 11:00 AM A socialist in the parliamentary Labour party? Starmer can't allow that. Andy Burnham blocked |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 25 Jan 26 - 02:28 AM Plans to make police in UK directly answerable to the Government Minister? Recipe for disaster, look at political interference in rallies and demonstrations ~ we the people elect politicians but the force of public opinion ultimately in a Free world MUST win Police and Chief Officers need to be left to make decisions but it is unfair to leave them stranded ~ better ways to gather verified information and seek help from police committees for this purpose Politicians make the frame work of laws and it is for the Police to enforce BUT not leave Police leaders stranded ~ Judges are there to deliberate when difficulties rise Look at where UK could be with a US style political leader Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Jan 26 - 12:34 PM Donuel has obviously never heard of the Greenham Common Women… Greenham Common Women Most UK-ers are fully aware of the presence of the USAF at several bases in the UK… US Air Force - UK presence since end of WW2 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Raggytash Date: 22 Jan 26 - 12:03 PM Ah Dave, someone might get confused between the British Isles, Great Britain, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and the United Kingdom, not to mention the Peoples Republic of Yorkshire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Jan 26 - 11:35 AM If the US base in England had a nuclear weapons accident Which one? And do you mean Englamd or the UK? What about the republic of Ireland? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Raggytash Date: 22 Jan 26 - 08:51 AM "You have no odea how many nukes and Neutron bombs we have in your country." More than a bit patronising. I would think that many people in the UK are all too well aware that we are a static aircraft carrier for some of the USA's nuclear capacity. Over 45 years ago we were subject to public information campaign named "Protect and Survive" I wonder if any American government has ever been so open with its citizens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Donuel Date: 22 Jan 26 - 07:56 AM Could a sick, demented mind of a narcissistic megalomaniac employ such weapons on an ally? Its a long shot, but it's a profitable game changer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Donuel Date: 22 Jan 26 - 07:51 AM If the US base in England had a nuclear weapons accident, 90% of your island would become poisoned and disfigured. You have no odea how many nukes and Neutron bombs we have in your country. The Sonic weapons used in Venezuela have been around for over 10 years and emit a nauseating bass standing wave that can immobilize a mass of people. Of course, explosives were also used and on;y killed less tha a hundred soldiers but just as many civilians Neutron bombs would leave your buildings standing but kill all living things near the surface and have the peculiar ability to not allow any of the bodies to rot for years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: r.padgett Date: 20 Jan 26 - 01:33 AM Good to see UK aligned with other European countries His Tariffs cost US! citizens and they must, I feel complain He is a total loose canon Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 19 Jan 26 - 12:06 PM > The idea that UK is a non-entity if it is outside > the EU is, I believe, false. *Disagree*: alone, we're small enough to swat, or even get run over without the offender noticing the bump. One thing that worries me is this obsession with the "special relationship". I wonder how many people know what that actually is: a good part of it to start with was the secrets-world cooperation during WW2, whose very existence had official-secrets status until the mid-1970s or later.* Nowadays, according to those in a position to know, the secrets-world organisations of the UK and the USA overlap so much that it reminds me of Ambrose Bierce's definition of "alliance":
This is Airstrip One, and you're welcome to it. * "The geese who laid the golden eggs, and never cackled" (Winston Churchill) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 19 Jan 26 - 10:34 AM ”As (presumably) a supported of Labour, does this cause you problems?” I’m not, and never have been a ‘supporter of Labour’. I am an opponent of Far-Right and Far-Left ideologies equally and, if I had to state my position, I would say I tend towards slightly left-of-centre. ”Are you seeing a strengthening Reform Party (and a weakening of the Conservative Party) as a threat to your position? If not, then surely it is just a further split in the opposition.” I am seeing a strengthening Reform UK Ltd rooted, as it undoubtedly is, in racism and anti-semitism, embodying the most Right-wing elements of Conservatism, and thus with an ideology seemingly designed to benefit the extremely wealthy at the expense of the ordinary Joe and Jane, as a threat to the majority of the population of this country. ”I totally disagree with the quoted position. Although you say he has his 'finger on the pulse' you do not (necessarily) claim to agree with him.” I believe he makes very good points that agree with to varying degrees. Overall, he has it right, in my own view. ”The UK as a power outside the 'EU' can espouse a viewpoint which either matches that of the EU, or takes a different path.” The UK has always been able to take its own path politically, the EU has never required its Member-States to be universally politically aligned. ”I believe that the USA (or Trump) will see them as two totally separate views, and will give them each their own relative 'weight' when considering how his plans are going down 'across the 'big pond'. The idea that UK is a non-entity if it is outside the EU is, I believe, false.” I believe you underestimate the strength and importance of an EU that included the UK, and I believe you overestimate the strength and importance of a UK standing, as we do currently, alone. This is, itself, the false premise on which the greatest act of national self-harm since the end of WW2 - Brexit - was sold to those daft enough to fall for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 19 Jan 26 - 03:06 AM Nice one with the PMs quip, N8gel. Much as I dislike him, he has a long way to go to catch Johnson and Truss :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 18 Jan 26 - 06:43 PM Backwoodsman: And another Tory defects to Reform UK Ltd., the private limited company posing as a ‘political party’. As (presumably) a supported of Labour, does this cause you problems? Are you seeing a strengthening Reform Party (and a weakening of the Conservative Party) as a threat to your position? If not, then surely it is just a further split in the opposition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 18 Jan 26 - 06:37 PM Backwoodsman: Meanwhile, back to the topic of the thread. Here’s Jack Dart’s Substack analysis of the position the the post-Brexit UK now finds itself in regarding Trump’s threats and bullying over his intention to ‘acquire’, by fair means or foul, the island of Greenland. Very astute, I believe he has his finger right on the pulse… I totally disagree with the quoted position. Although you say he has his 'finger on the pulse' you do not (necessarily) claim to agree with him. The UK as a power outside the 'EU' can espouse a viewpoint which either matches that of the EU, or takes a different path. I believe that the USA (or Trump) will see them as two totally separate views, and will give them each their own relative 'weight' when considering how his plans are going down 'across the 'big pond'. The idea that UK is a non-entity if it is outside the EU is, I believe, false. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 18 Jan 26 - 04:31 PM And another Tory defects to Reform UK Ltd., the private limited company posing as a ‘political party’. Andrew Rosindell, Tory MP for Romford, has announced that he has left the Conservative Party to join Reform, and Nigel Farage called him “A great patriot” who “Will be a great addition to our team”. There can’t be many Tories left in the House of Commons. Rats and sinking ships spring to mind. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98jn1wywdyo |
