BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Feb 26 - 02:16 AM

So MAGA is a movement to benefit USA and Big T's administration ~but e wins who loses?

We all do!

as I said before EU and UK MUST imv stand alone ~ closer links to US are a risky business and yes I know they are/could be good ~ but closer EU links and make build and create your own whatever is even safer ~ "Hard Times come again no more" too late the Tax man cometh

Big T wants world domination and will not stop ~ time he stopped to think that what he wants now is fraught with problems

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 14 Feb 26 - 08:29 AM

IMV UK does not want or need to have closer ties with The BIG T,s USA specifically on drugs ~ he is far too handy with his illegal tariffs

Big T has managed to mobilise EU and UK to look seriously at increasing Arms and now conscription, but that conscripted men/women would be a different breed ~ technology as well armed personnel ~ to fend off Putin and Russian threat ~ but a fair chance to balance the threat from Trump!! maybe o dear

Trump clearly wishes to redraw the world country map using threats and tariff sanctions so that drugs are no longer a means to raise big money ~Cuba is in crisis and Venezuela and Colombia ~ the whole of South America will be a humanitarian disaster area ~ so maybe Trump thinks easy meat for take over by US ~ well WHAT WILL BE LEFT??

Crackers ~ who me?

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Feb 26 - 06:42 PM

Are we REALLY surprised that Keir Starmer is being vilified by the media!

Before him Jeremy Corbin was treated atrociously by the media.

Before him Ed Milliband was similarly treated.

Before that it was Harriet Harmen.

Before that it was Gordon Brown.

Anyone noticing a pattern?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Feb 26 - 02:43 PM

'Just over 18 months ago the Labour party were elected to govern the country with a massive majority.'

A majority of seats but not votes.

'How on earth have they managed to get so unpopular in that short space of time?'

Were they ever popular. A turnout of 59.7 per cent and they got a share of 33.7 per cent.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Feb 26 - 06:28 AM

I think it is time UK Govt defined Terrorism and they discovered the legal term "arms length" see above ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Case regarding P A has just found that the interpretation as a Terrorist Group when many ordinary and many elderly have protested about Gaza situation is flawed and they found themselves jailed

Much more to come on this on appeal no doubt

Govt in no hurry and fudge and fiddle comes to mind ~ mean while Freedom of speech will be on hold very likely which is what the Govt really want ~ to not have complete rethink takes into very difficult territory ~I will say no more

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Feb 26 - 06:48 AM

Just over 18 months ago the Labour party were elected to govern the country with a massive majority. They had 14 years of mis-management to turn round so no-one expected themn to bring the country back from the edge quickly and, to be fair, I think they have managed to recover some lost ground. But...

How on earth have they managed to get so unpopular in that short space of time? Of course the right wing press have a lot to answer for but Starmer and co have been handing them ammunition on a plate!

I have said before that I am no Starmer fan but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He has failed to earn my trust completely but, sadly, ousting him at this stage will, I believe, shred the party even further. The answer? I dunno. Maybe PR as many have said before. Maybe, as I have suggested, remove party politics and vote for the person who will do best for the country rather than go with the tribal colours. Hold MPs accountable for their manifesto promises and get rid of those who fail to keep them. Don't let any MPs have more than 2 terms in office and stop then having other jobs.

Whatever happens, it needs to be soon!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 Feb 26 - 02:59 AM

I think it is time UK Govt defined Terrorism and they discovered the legal term "arms length"

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Feb 26 - 10:28 AM

Join the club

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 10 Feb 26 - 05:10 AM

Each time I try to open a link leading to a page on X, I am told that my account has been suspended, even though I have never had an X account and have never tried to post anything on X. I don't know what I have done to deserve this 'honour'.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Feb 26 - 04:29 AM

Thanx Dick

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Feb 26 - 03:46 AM

Ray, consider it a badge of honour

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Feb 26 - 02:43 AM

I am still being censored on twitter/X ad I am frozen out of fb probably permanently

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Feb 26 - 02:32 AM

Yesterday ( Monday) was the crunch day for Sir Keir who gathered 42 Labour Ministers to No 10 and was able to gather their ongoing support to continue as PM ~ The Scottish leader had already spoken against presumably regarding Scottish matters

New team to be established following sackings

Royalty suffering some flak regarding Andrew

Maxwell pleading 5th amendment and saying nowt

Coming local elections will no doubt reflect the assault in financial terms ~ Welfare benefits claw back ~ freezing of tax free pay limits ~ measures targeted at low pay ~ dreadful move on what is a "terrorist" Free Speech in danger ~ we shall see

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Feb 26 - 06:33 AM

Better odds available on SkyBet
Conservatives 275:1 (same for Lib Dems)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Feb 26 - 03:41 AM

The green party are clear favourites to win gorton bye , conservatives are 250 to one.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Feb 26 - 03:12 PM

That well-known and thoroughly-discredited last resort of the habitual nit-picker - when you have no credible answer to your opponent’s argument, attack his use of language and/or spelling.

If you read my response you will see that I made clear that 'I do not agree with his assertions.'

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Feb 26 - 12:20 PM

That well-known and thoroughly-discredited last resort of the habitual nit-picker - when you have no credible answer to your opponent’s argument, attack his use of language and/or spelling.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Feb 26 - 07:46 AM

I'm guessing that you meant:
I don't think you will (find) many in the ranks of Labour supporters who would try and justify the actions of the individuals you mention Nigel.
However when similar accusations where (were?) levelled at members of Conservative governments hordes of you(r) fellow conservatives sought to justify their actions.

And while I can make the effort to try to understand what you mean, I don't agree with your assertions.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Feb 26 - 06:38 AM

Oh Nigel, I'm sure you understand my post all too well. I fear you are being deliberately obtuse so you may avoid the truth of what I posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Feb 26 - 03:13 AM

When does a scrambled egg finish and and an omelette begin?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 07:53 PM

I don't think you will many in the ranks of Labour supporters who would try and justify the actions of the individuals you mention Nigel.
However when similar accusations where levelled at members of conservative governments hordes of you fellow conservatives sought to justify their actions.

I'm not sure I follow your meaning (English language?)
However, Backwoodsman agrees with you!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 12:31 PM

”I don't think you will many in the ranks of Labour supporters who would try and justify the actions of the individuals you mention Nigel.

However when similar accusations were levelled at members of conservative governments hordes of you fellow conservatives sought to justify their actions.”

Yep, precisely my point, Raggy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 11:11 AM

"Mine is not 'just my opinion'.
Rachel Reeves has been clearly shown to have lied on her c.v. and in her electoral statements.
Ex-Deputy leader, Rayner was avoiding tax, by lying.
Starmer assured Parliament that due process had been followed in appointing Mandelson (although he now says that during that due process he was happy to rely on lies from Mandelson).
Mandelson? Well, even the 'current' PM says he's a liar . . ."

I don't think you will many in the ranks of Labour supporters who would try and justify the actions of the individuals you mention Nigel.

However when similar accusations where levelled at members of conservative governments hordes of you fellow conservatives sought to justify their actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 11:03 AM

. . .and should not be able to find a PM naïve enough to accept his lies at face value.

Very true, Nigel. If naivete is what it was. Spin doctors are very useful until they get found out. I suspect Mandleson looked like the ideal ambassador for Trump's USA. In either case it was bad judgement on Starmer's part but he was not the first and will not be the last to fall for their own spin!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 10:53 AM

Nigel, my comment was intended to be light-hearted - maybe you need to grow a SoH? ;-)

A supporter of the Tories (and, if my suspicionss are correct, Reform UK Ltd, the limited company pretending to be a political party) should really hold back from trying to take the high ground over politicians' lies - the lies put about by your (two?) parties are well-documented and are legion. Glass-houses, stones, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 10:34 AM

Anyone who can make a living from turning facts on their heads and creating stories from the flimsiest of sources should never have been in such a position of power in the first place
. . .and should not be able to find a PM naïve enough to accept his lies at face value.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 09:33 AM

Your opinion, Nigel. And, as we both know, opinions are like arse-holes - everybody has one!

Just as the comment I replied to was just your opinion. But I avoid unnecessary crudities.

Mine is not 'just my opinion'.
Rachel Reeves has been clearly shown to have lied on her c.v. and in her electoral statements.
Ex-Deputy leader, Rayner was avoiding tax, by lying.
Starmer assured Parliament that due process had been followed in appointing Mandelson (although he now says that during that due process he was happy to rely on lies from Mandelson).
Mandelson? Well, even the 'current' PM says he's a liar . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 09:31 AM

Not just much of the Labour party, Nigel. Sadly, many politicians are of the same ilk nowadays. I am not sure where it all started but Blair wond with a massive populist manufesto and it has got steadily worse since.

I think BWM has mentioned the ultimate snake oil salesman though, although I am not sure if Farage learned from Johnson or vice-versa.

As to Mandleson, Well, he was one of the first people to whom the term spin doctor was applied. Anyone who can make a living from turning facts on their heads and creating stories from the flimsiest of sources should never have been in such a position of power in the first place. Dominic Cummins next???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 08:46 AM

Your opinion, Nigel. And, as we both know, opinions are like arse-holes - everybody has one!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 07:19 AM

”I do not trust the man and I do not believe the man."

The same could easily be said about Farage. In fact, about the whole Reform UK Limited company posing as a political party

Also much of the Labour party!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 02:59 AM

”I do not trust the man and I do not believe the man."

The same could easily be said about Farage. In fact, about the whole Reform UK Limited company posing as a political party - especially since the mass defections of some of the worst elements of the Tory party, who were instrumental in creating the shit-show we were left with in 2024.

FWIW, I’ve also thought, for many years, that there was something very unsavoury and ‘wrong’ about Mandelson. I wouldn’t have trusted him as far as I could spit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 05 Feb 26 - 02:01 AM

Starmer under great pressure regarding ill fated Mandelson appointment

following Epstein revelations

Who knows what happens next ~ replacements in the wings queuing up

Farage seen as in Trump terms

Liberals regaining ground; Greens re emergence

Tories still there but so defections to Farage ~ far right party?

Ray

too many parties can distort future of politics!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Feb 26 - 09:17 PM

Jeremy Corbyn said (of Peter Mandelson)

"Under my leadership of the Labour Party, Peter Mandelson had no role, no influence and no part to play, because I do not trust the man and I do not believe the man."

Labour Party, take note.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Feb 26 - 12:39 PM

Backwoodsman:
You quote "From Daniel Lismore (UK-based artist, designer & perfumer) on his FB Page…
“Polls say Reform voters are the least educated.
Polling consistently shows that Reform UK draws its strongest support from voters with lower levels of formal educational attainment. That fact matters. Not as a slur, but because it helps explain a pattern that keeps repeating.

I saw that polling, but could find no evidence that 'weighting' had been applied to the figures.
A quick Google for percentage of entrants to 'higher education' gives the following:
Higher education (HE) entry in the UK has grown significantly, rising from ~3% in the 1950s to ~8% in 1970, ~19% by 1990, and peaking near 50% by the late 2010s. Recent data shows 18-year-old entry rates increased from 24.7% in 2006 to a 38.2% peak in 2021, settling at 36.3% in 2025.
The House of Commons Library

So if Reform are supported mainly by the older generation then that will always mean that those supporters will have lower levels of 'education', but higher levels of life experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 26 - 02:28 AM

yes, but nnly those who voted for him

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Feb 26 - 03:49 AM

Are they really such dumb-f*cks that they don’t realise those billions aren’t ‘flowing into the US’, they are flowing straight out of their own pockets? QUOTE
Yes

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Feb 26 - 03:07 AM

”Time will tell if the high costs being extorted from US population by tariff imposition was worth while!”

And all the while, he’s telling the Magats that his tariffs have brought “Billions of dollars flowing into the US”. Are they really such dumb-f*cks that they don’t realise those billions aren’t ‘flowing into the US’, they are flowing straight out of their own pockets?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 02 Feb 26 - 03:56 AM

So Sir Keir has been making deals with China, due to Big T's attitude to Tariffs

Indeed many countries are appalled at the yet to be proved legitimacy of the confetti tariffs being weaponised

Time will tell if the high costs being extorted from US population by tariff imposition was worth while!

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 26 - 03:50 AM

I am pleased Mandelson has resigned

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jan 26 - 05:16 AM

No probs Ray!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 30 Jan 26 - 04:38 AM

O sorry misunderstood ~ yes I have it and have re read the content

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jan 26 - 02:21 AM

Does that matter Ray? I posted the text in full above, have you read it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 30 Jan 26 - 01:37 AM

I am blocked by fb ~ so the link above I am unable to access

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jan 26 - 12:29 PM

From Daniel Lismore (UK-based artist, designer & perfumer) on his FB Page…

“Polls say Reform voters are the least educated.

Polling consistently shows that Reform UK draws its strongest support from voters with lower levels of formal educational attainment. That fact matters. Not as a slur, but because it helps explain a pattern that keeps repeating.

Reform supporters are being told, clearly and repeatedly, what the party’s policies would mean in practice. They are being told that Reform supports weaker worker protections, a rollback of human rights safeguards, cuts to public spending, and a shift away from universal healthcare toward systems where individuals pay more themselves. They are being told that council taxes are rising under Reform-run councils despite explicit promises that they would not. They are being told that the party is dominated by former Conservative figures whose last period in power left the country poorer and public services weaker.

And yet many supporters refuse to engage with these facts.

Instead, warnings are dismissed as “establishment lies” while the same political figures are trusted again, even when the consequences are spelled out in advance. This is not confidence. It is avoidance.

There is a psychological pattern at work. When people are under sustained economic pressure, anxious about the future, and angry at a system that has failed them, simple narratives become comforting. Blame is redirected outward. Immigrants. Protesters. Cultural enemies. The promise offered is emotional relief rather than material improvement.

This is why Reform’s messaging prioritises grievance over detail. The party does not need supporters to understand policy. It needs them to remain angry long enough not to look too closely.

The uncomfortable reality is that Reform’s policies would hit its own voter base hardest. People on lower incomes rely most on public healthcare. They are least able to absorb higher costs when services are privatised or withdrawn. They are most exposed to cuts in legal protections, benefit changes, council tax rises, and the erosion of local services.

Reform’s politics depends on keeping that contradiction unresolved.

As long as supporters stay locked in outrage, they are spared the moment of reckoning where they have to confront what is actually being offered to them: less security, fewer protections, higher costs, and a thinner safety net, all repackaged as freedom.

That is not empowerment. It is control.

Anger is being used as a distraction from policies that would leave people poorer, sicker, and more exposed. And the more uncomfortable that truth becomes, the louder the shouting gets.

This is not about intelligence. It is about manipulation.

And the people being manipulated will be the first to pay the price.

Reform’s model depends on confusion. Fear is the glue. Outrage is the shield. Because once voters understand what Reform actually proposes, the support does not harden. It collapses.”

For the non-Facebookphobes, here is DL’s original FB post. I find myself persuaded by his arguments…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 27 Jan 26 - 06:18 AM

IMV Farage is a Big T man ~ do we in UK need US methods ~ well I certainly hope not

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jan 26 - 07:32 AM

Suella Braverman is the latest rat to desert the sinking Conservative ship…

BBC News - Braverman Defects to Reform UK Ltd

I wonder if it’s occurred to all those Deform UK supporters who claim that the UK needs radical change that their Party is filling up with the very bunch whose political, economic, and financial mis-rule got us into this mess in the first place?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 26 Jan 26 - 01:47 AM

No threat then to Starmer's reign as PM

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 26 - 12:02 PM

‘Labour’ on its usual road to self-destruction. The Deformers will be hugging themselves with glee!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 25 Jan 26 - 11:00 AM

A socialist in the parliamentary Labour party? Starmer can't allow that.

Andy Burnham blocked

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Jan 26 - 02:28 AM

Plans to make police in UK directly answerable to the Government Minister?

Recipe for disaster, look at political interference in rallies and demonstrations ~ we the people elect politicians but the force of public opinion ultimately in a Free world MUST win

Police and Chief Officers need to be left to make decisions but it is unfair to leave them stranded ~ better ways to gather verified information and seek help from police committees for this purpose

Politicians make the frame work of laws and it is for the Police to enforce BUT not leave Police leaders stranded ~ Judges are there to deliberate when difficulties rise


Look at where UK could be with a US style political leader

Ray