BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 26 - 10:38 AM

no

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 26 - 06:27 PM

”It may not have been a deterrent, but it would prevent some re-offending.

However, I still agree with the dictum "it is better to free 10 guilty people than to sentence one innocent to death."


I completely agree on both points, Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Aug 26 - 03:29 AM

From the above link: "Over 30 killers killed again after being freed from prison between 2000/1 and 2010/11, statistics show.
Figures released by the Home Office show 29 people with homicide convictions went on to commit murder and six went on to commit manslaughter."
All that proves is that Prison is not a deterrent , it proves nothing other than that

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Aug 26 - 01:09 PM

source rte news
Former British prime minister Gordon Brown has said it is inevitable that Ireland will become united at some point in the future."

but how long is long term?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 01 Sep 26 - 02:14 AM

In my view nothing is certain in Religion, politics and music

Immigration and migration will depend on World peace and stability ~ a juggling act maybe

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 26 - 08:41 AM

Starmer has announced his resignation as an MP.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Sep 26 - 11:56 AM

I always thought that he would make a good ambassador. Maybe someone else thought so and he is paving the way?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 26 - 12:12 PM

Seems likely, he’s saying he wants to involve himself in ‘international affairs’.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 01 Sep 26 - 12:43 PM

AB makes his first speech to Parliament ~ still taking questions on very many aspects to be tackled

Very hopeful and making sense

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Sep 26 - 03:16 AM

Starmer cannot be any worse than Blair

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 02 Sep 26 - 01:09 PM

We've moved on Dick @ Andy Burnham PM and Starmer resigned as an MP as well

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Sep 26 - 02:21 PM

Sandman:
"From the above link: "Over 30 killers killed again after being freed from prison between 2000/1 and 2010/11, statistics show.
Figures released by the Home Office show 29 people with homicide convictions went on to commit murder and six went on to commit manslaughter."
All that proves is that Prison is not a deterrent , it proves nothing other than that.

No, it does not prove that, no matter what you claim.
It only shows that prison was not a sufficient deterrent in those 29 cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Sep 26 - 03:37 PM

very amusing

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Sep 26 - 04:14 PM

Nigel - it would be interesting to know how many people with homicide convictions were released during that ten-year period who did not go on to kill again, would it not? Unfortunately, the BBC article doesn’t give that information.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Sep 26 - 04:38 PM

It appears from This table that the re-offending rate varies between 2% & 5%. Using an average of 3.5%, if this is represented by the 39 re-offenders, then 96.5% (1075) do not re-offend.

Table linked from Here

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Sep 26 - 04:47 PM

Thanks Nigel. That would seem to confirm that prison is very much a deterrent in the vast majority of cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 26 - 04:13 AM

If the only thing stopping you from commiting a crime is fear of retribution, there is something wrong with you anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Sep 26 - 06:05 AM


If the only thing stopping you from commiting a crime is fear of retribution, there is something wrong with you anyway!

It depends on what level of anti-social behaviour is seen as a crime. Littering, cyclists ignoring traffic regulations and parking on pavements would all be reduced if the rules were enforced properly. Of course, it's never you or me - it's the other thoughtless people who are the source of the problem.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Sep 26 - 02:02 AM

So political donations to individual MPs and or parties is the current hot potato

Farage and the revolting party and Gaza and Israel

Palestinian deaths, Hamas and denials

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 26 - 03:50 AM

Littering and parking on pavements are both antisocial, Doug, and decent folk should not need any threat of punishment to stop them doing it. Yes, there are antisocial people who do need the threat. There is something wrong with them.

Ignoring traffic regulations is dangerous for everyone so why pick up on just cyclists? If you ignore traffic regulations on a regular basis, you will be punished anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Sep 26 - 05:24 AM

... why pick up on just cyclists? If you ignore traffic regulations on a regular basis, you will be punished anyway!

Cycles have no registration plate, and so, are anonymous. There is little fear of retribution. I often see cyclists pass through red lights at pedestrian crossings while cars are waiting for the sequence to turn green. Some town centre precincts may have wardens to enforce the rule but, other than that, cyclist regularly use pedestrian only footways with impunity.

Privately owned electric scooters are illegal to ride on public roads, pavements, cycle lanes, or in parks across the UK. They are everywhere and little is done to stop them.

For balance, many car drivers seem to believe in the 10% rule and regularly break the law. They drive at the speed that they think that they can get away with rather than at or below the actual speed limit. Getting caught may stop them for a while but memory fades quickly.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 26 - 07:28 AM

jaywalkers are dangerous too but maimly to themselves.
Distibutionism equals social democracy, does this describe,Burnham?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 26 - 08:54 AM

I don't even know what distibutionism is!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Sep 26 - 10:24 AM

DTG: I know what 'jaywalking' is.
But fortunately it isn't a crime in UK, so fail to see its relevance here!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 07 Sep 26 - 03:16 AM

AB is on a path not yet trodden

Tax is seen by Tories and other right leaning parties as bad for the country ~ transfer payments missus, nowt to do with football

The taxes are needed but must obviously be spent wisely ~ monies for defence can be imposed as we have now a state of pre emergency at least

That little t along with the Russian guy have caused World discontent along with usual suspects in the Middle East

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Sep 26 - 02:58 AM

Distributism is an economic and social philosophy that seeks to spread the ownership of property and the means of production as widely as possible across society rather than concentrating it under state socialism or corporate capitalism. [1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism), [2] (https://distributistreview.com/archive/an-introduction-to-distributism), [3] (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/distributism)Core PrinciplesWidespread Property Ownership: Land, homes, and tools should belong to as many individuals and families as possible. [1] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M702i7rcUBo)Small Business and Cooperatives: The economy should rely on local, family-run shops, independent farms, and worker-owned cooperatives rather than massive monopolies. [1] (https://practicaldistributism.com/2024/12/19/what-is-distributism-and-what-does-it-tell-us-about-economics/), [2] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M702i7rcUBo)Third Way Alternative: Developed in the early 20th century by English writers like G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc, it was inspired by Catholic social teaching (such as Pope Leo XIII's encyclical Rerum Novarum) as an alternative to the perceived injustices of both unbridled capitalism and state socialism. [

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Sep 26 - 03:03 AM

As i understand the philosophy, THE ECONMIC PHILOSOPHY is against socialisation of the means of production, but not state ownership of Railways or Water companies, Which sounds much like social democracy

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 26 - 04:20 AM

Distributism or capitalism with a conscience is more likely to be achieved in the UK.
Marx believed socialism could be achieved in the uk, well we are still waiting.
Distributism would fit in well with the consumer society,
it appears that generally speaking the very wealthy do not care what happens to the poor

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Sep 26 - 06:43 AM

That is what is happening in UK presently

Taxation and the attitude to welfare benefits by the main capitalist parties is unbelievable

Transfer payments are what you pay for footballers of course

Basic economic understanding is treated as a reward for voting Tory or other right wing parties ~ totally at odds

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Sep 26 - 10:21 AM

"Transfer payments are what you pay for footballers of course"

That comment got me looking to see what tax is due on transfer fees.

It seems that transfers between UK clubs are liable to VAT. Anything after that is a bit more complicated.

This article from The Football Week gives some idea

How Clubs Reduce Hidden Transfer Tax Costs

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Sep 26 - 11:27 AM

So now a tourism tax on hotel visits overnight and what else?

What is needed imv is Trading standards tightening on Customer Visible Food prices and Drink prices in shops, Bars, pubs, restaurants and Hotels ~ I believe that there is a "free for all" attitude and that this being flouted in day light with no redress ~ yes the tourism industry has been hit by recent events Covid etc but before paying high monies for anything a blitz on all pricing MUST be seen

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Sep 26 - 11:48 AM

«So now a tourism tax on hotel visits overnight and what else?"

I believe that it is a proposal to give mayors the option of imposing the tax. The earliest it would come in to force is March 2028. A lot of things might well change before then.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 11 Sep 26 - 10:15 AM

In the end it is the customer/traveller/you an me that pays

Elsewhere I have pointed out that pubs, hotels and restaurants and shops in many instances fail trading standards on display of price lists for Customers that can be easily read and in some cases show high prices where events like folk festivals are happening

We seem to be easy prey and end up putting people off from going self defeating but they are not bothered

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 26 - 06:02 AM

Question about a tourist tax. I live in a tourist-ish area af the Yorkshire Dales. If the North Yorks mayor decides to apply a tourist tax for the Dales would I have to pay it? For instance, we sometimes stay in Geassington or Ribblehead - less than an hours drive from me - So am I a tourist or, seeing as I pay council tax to N Yorks, am I a resident?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Sep 26 - 10:59 AM

Maybe if Reform get a few more donations they might promise us all a cash bonus if they 'win' the next election.

Notes.

Win means winning the most seats and not the most votes. It is a quaint tradition in this country that we end up with a government that the majority of people did not vote for.

The two major parties did little to reform party funding while they were   getting the largest donations. Isn't that strange.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 26 - 11:30 AM

I see what you are getting at Rain Dog but this is surely a question of scale. In 2024 the total of donations for all parties is reported, by this source to have been £97 million over the course of the year.

Yes, that is correct, ALL parties for the full year accepted at total of £97 million between them.

Yet just 2 donations to Reform PLC come to £72 Million. Nearly 75% of all donations to all other parties in a whole year. How much more is yet to come and what are these billionaires trying to achieve? I am pretty sure that neither they nor any of the other mega-rich backers of the nicotine stained manfrog have our interests at heart. It is almost as if they want a system where the rich can do what they want while the poor get poorer...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 14 Sep 26 - 12:22 PM

A cap and scrutiny of who what and how much is donated by individuals and organisations is needed imv

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Sep 26 - 02:03 PM

”How much more is yet to come and what are these billionaires trying to achieve?”

It seems fairly obvious to an old cynic like me that, both donors being crypto-billionaires, and Reform UK Ltd championing a ‘special’ tax deal for crypto-dealings, they are hoping to finance a winning campaign for Reform UK Ltd at the 2029 GE.

I’ll stake my pension that it’s not because of any philanthropic aims on their part.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 16 Sep 26 - 03:49 AM

Donors of this wealth must be thinking in terms of influencing future Government legislation in many fields and non of them will benefit the electorate

Monies will dictate the direction of future Governments

AI and Right wing views and just where will UK be?

Not looking to hopeful at the moment and little t has wreaked turmoil, nay war in the Middle East affecting diesel/petrol prices

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 21 Sep 26 - 02:31 AM

AB off to see little t

Mind ps and qs

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Sep 26 - 02:47 AM

I read a piece yesterday suggesting that Burnham’s plan is not to follow Starmer’s policy of appeasement, but to speak plainly and honestly to the FUOB. It will be interesting to see how that goes down…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 26 - 03:47 AM

Should Charles abdicate in view of Eal Spencers allegations?Ithink he should go.Mean while all has gone quiet about Andrew

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: r.padgett
Date: 24 Sep 26 - 02:17 AM

No Sandman, we are where we are

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Sep 26 - 12:10 PM

"Should Charles abdicate in view of Eal Spencers allegations?"

Definitely 'No!'

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Sep 26 - 12:27 PM

Who is "Eal Spencers"?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Sep 26 - 07:02 PM

"Who is "Eal Spencers"?"

Presumably, Making allowances for 'Sandman's' use of English,
Charles Spencer, the 9th 'Earl Spencer'. Brother of the late 'Princess Diana (Spencer)'

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Sep 26 - 11:49 AM

Ah

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Sep 26 - 11:55 AM

A typo.
If this forum had an edit button i could have corrected it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 26 - 12:55 PM

I like the idea of Eel Spencer. There is something fishy about most of that motley crew...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 5
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Sep 26 - 05:43 PM

Sandman:
"A typo.
If this forum had an edit button i could have corrected it."

Not 'a typo', but several.

If, before hitting 'submit', you used the 'Preview' option (below the message box) you could check whether what you are submitting matches what you intend to submit.