Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (Steve Belsey Variant)

Subject: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (new version)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Aug 26 - 05:33 AM

Tune & Inspiration: Joni Mitchell
New Lyrics: Steve Belsey

There was a time when flags were raised,
For solemn grief or triumph praised,
And happy colours brightly blazed,
That proudly line the way.
Now tattered flags they line the street,
With hatred in the eyes you meet,
As if some foe they must defeat.
Seems all they have to say.

I've looked at flags from both sides now,
From joy and hate but still somehow
It's flags' illusions I recall
I really don't know flags at all.

Through decades fought with blood and tears,
To break the chains and conquer fears,
A march that lasted down the years,
To claim a brighter day.
But now the loudest voices shout,
And ask what are their rights about,
Of things they never went without
They throw it all away.

I've looked at rights from both sides now,
From us and them and still somehow
It's rights' illusions I recall
I really don't know rights at all.

We built this house through weary years,
With shared compassion, sweat, and tears,
To banish all the old-world fears,
And pave a kinder way.
Now marching on a darker track,
And with each brutal, cold attack,
They find new ways to turn their back,
Cos hope got in the way.

I've looked at care from both sides now,
From hope and fear and still somehow
It's care's illusions I recall
But do we really care at all?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Side Now (new version)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 26 - 06:17 AM

You are breaching copyright by doing this..it isn't clever, it isn't parody or fair use.. it is breach of copyright.   The copyright and credit remains with the original - this is simply a derivative. You cannot set fresh lyrics to a modern copyright tune/song without permission. AI comes up with crap like that.   You cannot call it a 'New Version', it is a plagiarising of a song which has copyright, and uses elements of the original.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Side Now (new version)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Aug 26 - 06:27 AM

Actually it was about 4 hours if writing and rewriting. No intention to monetarise in any way - but aimed as using song as a weapon against flag wavers and bigots.    MUDELF -   may to keep Guest happy change New Version in the thread title to Parody.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Side Now (new version)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 26 - 06:34 AM

It is still not parody or fair use. It is breach of copyright.. end of story - a derivative work. You cannot and should not be setting lyrics to a copyright tune without permission.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (new version)
From: GUEST,Tom Patterson
Date: 17 Aug 26 - 09:34 AM

I can see this opening up a can of worms!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (new version)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Aug 26 - 10:18 AM

Unnamed guest seems a bit hot under the collar. Having grown up around parodies and worked in a research library where "fair use" comes up all of the time, I'll offer a very short summary of a Quora answer that gives more details (I offer a link so you don't have to take my word for it):

Fair Use is a term that allows sampling and parodies to exist in the modern copyright world. This is US copyright (the guest may use the term "fair dealing.")

This is a non-commercial parody that isn't competing with the original in the marketplace. Freedom of expression, Guest, is at play here.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Aug 26 - 12:04 PM

SPB,

Don't lose sleep over the legalistic troll above. The copyright police are not about to bust down your door and take away your electronic devices. Stilly River Sage says this in more formal terms. ;-)

I think you have a useful topical song to share at the next neighborhood pub session.

Cheerily,
Charlie Ipcar

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 26 - 12:24 PM

It's still a derivative work using sections of text and full melody from the original. you are supposed to have permission... The definition of parody is a bit loose as to how much is fair to use. I don't know how you managed to change the thread heading, but that is a bit better than your original claiming of it as an alternative lyric setting of the original song. Go write something original - you can do it!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Aug 26 - 02:43 PM

GUEST, you've expressed your opinion and we don't agree with you.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 17 Aug 26 - 06:52 PM

I've looked at care from both sides now,
From hope and fear and still somehow
It's care's illusions I recall
But do we really care at all?

Never, ever rely on social media for legal advice. Seriously... just do not.

fwiw Apathy is an emotional conflict, not an intellectual one. Got nothing whatsoever to do with real life copyright law (amateur or semi-pro.)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Aug 26 - 03:41 AM

fir me it is getting words down on paper as a catharsis, rather than suffering burnout doing constant battle with social media trolls and bigots and being called an evil leftie because I don't hate the 'right' people.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 18 Aug 26 - 05:56 AM

SPB: If that were the truth, whole truth and nothing but... the general public would not be reviewing the result on social media.

Now guest has a problem with it. The rest of the thread doesn't give a rodent's posterior. And that's not counting thee & me.

"Both" sides means "one" and the "other." I thought it was just a wee tad of an under-count back in the 60s. It did not get any better with age.

Not to worry, the first few rounds of any 21st century copyright strike are with non-carbon-based life forms anywho. That's a whole 'nother level of apathy.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 26 - 08:03 AM

Ok just to say, the person who put this up originally put it under the thread of being an official second lyric under the song title. That has been corrected and changed to 'parody'. which is at least a more ethical way round it. It was certainly misdescribed. Good luck to them, hopefully they will manage to write something original or go to Suno and write some protest thing with that.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 18 Aug 26 - 08:38 AM

The Vorlons have an expression for this: "Understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Aug 26 - 05:54 PM

DELIGHTFUL

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Dr D and Weird Al have a place.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Aug 26 - 05:56 PM

Four Digital Rights of Memory Institutions:

The right to collect
The right to preserve
The right to provide access
The right to interlibrary collaboration

I would add
The Right To Free and Open Discussion

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

I guess our GUEST to be the one who wanked in the bird's eye for over a mile.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: meself
Date: 20 Aug 26 - 11:55 AM

Of course, it's not actually a "parody", in that it is, if anything, honouring rather than mocking the original. It is, in fact, a new set of lyrics based on the form of an older set of lyrics, the kind of creative endeavour that has gone on since, I'm sure, the first song was sung and the first poem was uttered. GUEST's objections are just ... bizarre.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 22 Aug 26 - 11:16 AM

Original Song Title: "Both Sides Now
Original Performer: Joni Mitchell
Parody Song Title: Trump Side Now
Parody Written by: Michael Pacholek

(instrumental opening)

Pie in sky, and laws so fair.
And cleaner water, land and air.
And Monica, why should we care?
I looked at Trump that way.

But now, we have old Poppy's son.
His reign job-snows on everyone.
So many things he could have done
but much he threw away.

I've looked at life from Trump Side now.
My hope is down and still somehow
it's Trump delusions, I'm appalled.
He really don't know squat at all.

Flash and cash, prosperity.
Good jobs, good wage for you and me.
It started twenty twenty-three.
I looked at Trump that way.

But now, we've got another show.
To richest guys, the tax cuts go.
And if you're poor, he will not know.
You won't get giveaway.

I've looked at life from Bush Side now.
My bank account is stilled somehow.
It's Trump delusions, he's got gall.
He really don't know squat at all.

Tears and fears he had removed.
The left is right, this he had proved.
And when we cheered, he seemed so moved.
I looked at Trump that way.

But now, the White House seems so strange.
I shake my head, decry the change.
Look what we've lost, there's nothing gained
He don't care anyway.

looked at life from Trump Side now.
He only gives us crap of cow.
It's Trump delusions, why we fall.
He really don't know squat
at all.

(instrumental fadeout)

AM I RIGHT
Making fun of music, one song at a time. Since the year 2000.
https://amiright.com/parody/60s/jonimitchell17.shtml


Sincerely,
Gargoyle
lots of stuff out there.A

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: meself
Date: 22 Aug 26 - 11:24 AM

But it's not "Making fun of music", in the sense of mocking it - it's using music to make fun of the trump fiasco.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Aug 26 - 12:58 PM

"Making fun *out of* music", or "Making fun *with* music", perhaps .... ?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Both Sides Now (parody)
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 Aug 26 - 06:17 PM

Hey! 20 years and the first time I've agreed with GarGoYlE!