BS: I love the mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: I love the mudcat.
From: GUEST,Jon Freeman
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 02:54 AM

Mick, you know what temptation is like and I obviuosly have come back for one more read...

I genuinely do belive that I need to take a break from Mudcat I but feel that it needs to be said that whatever comments were exchanged between yourself and me are not an issue here and there is no bad feeling from my side.

I am likely to return but think I need to get more of a grip of my own life (so that I don't let places like Mudcat have as much control over my life as I had allowed) before I do.

Jon

(Hoping this makes it clear that I have no bad feelings towards anyone - please let's have nobody blaming others for my descision and although I got angry, is ultimately based on my life and is nothing to do with any Mudcatter)

Subject: RE: BS: I love the mudcat.
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 10:52 AM

Mick.

I have already contacted Jon privately, if he receives enough of our support I hope that it may cause him to, reconsider his decision.

As you seem incapable of replying to me personally and appear to NEED to do this in public. I will answer you publicly and apologise in advance to all the rest of The Mudcat who are not interested in our personal disagreements. However I will try to resist the temptation of responding to you in the same 'tone ' as you seem to need to do, to me. For no one here needs to "prove" anything to YOU. There may be something YOU could demonstrate to those here though. A little humility perhaps?

The 'tone' of my last posting was ill conceived and I regret that. I did not take my own advice and think again, before posting. As a synopsis of where we are, it still stands up pretty well though but I will try here to concentrate on the issues.

You may not welcome my analysis of events but when you post publicly, you are open to the danger of maybe getting what you deserve, rather than what you necessarily want.

It is of some surprise to me, that you feel that you have to respond to criticism of your actions, for I may have expected some criticism if I were in your position. It would be the shame, guilt and embarrassment of receiving praise, in this situation, that would cause me far more concern. For you are still at the party and receiving toasts! Jon is not.

To those who feel that I am being hard on someone who has apologised, I can only say that I understand that view but that this whole episode is repeating a sad and sorry pattern. One where Mick's victims, get hurt and leave and where Mick stays, accepts no responsibility and never appears to learn from the experience and as a result will repeat it.

As to an honest apology? Yes I do know how to recognise one. It is NOT one that is immediately followed by an attempt to regain 'the moral high ground' as yours was. If you could only have stopped at that point I would have had the utmost respect for you and honestly felt that we may have moved on. The apology mentions the word "humble" but I see little subsequent evidence of that humility and the real test of an apology is whether it is accepted and effective in making the hurt party feel better?

We have been here before have we not? Each time after you have 'fired from the hip' and directly and indirectly driven folk away. Jon had other reasons, which he clearly stated but the 'tone' of your post would have hardly helped, would it, maybe a case of 'The Straw That Breaks The Camels Back'?

All I would ask of you now and all I have asked of you before is, that you think of the possible effect of your "fierce rebuttals" on all other posters, before you post them? If it is addressed to an individual, maybe it should be sent to them privately and that may at least, prevent all this public grief?

I note that you say you did a name search on Jon, after your 'apology'. MICK, why on earth could you not have done that before you asked him to leave?

You repeatedly see my criticism of your actions and their results, on this issue as a criticism of you personally and you don't like it. Can you not imagine how your victims feel especially as you 'pull no punches' and speak with the authority of Mudcat and the silent majority ? If I were to say sorry to you now, for making you feel bad, it would not make you feel better automatically?

When our children were young, we used to say to them, "the fact that I do not like some of the things you, do, does not mean I do not like YOU". If that could be the unsaid message of ALL our postings, it may help. Can we please at least learn something from the "silliness', this time?

Subject: RE: BS: I love the mudcat.
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 12:24 AM

Folks, I will not respond to these anymore. There are obviously issues at work here that I will attempt to deal with privately. I will debate issues always. That is part and parcel to my participation. but I will not address motives here ever again. I think that is good sauce.

I invite you all to examine my posts here and make of them me what you will. Those that know me know that the apology was honestly given for the thing I did wrong which was to use an unkind and imperious tone, as well as invite someone to leave. I don't know what else I can say on that issue. As to the issue of criticism of Max, which was a separate issue, I stand by my post. As to Roger's anger towards me, I can't do much more about it. I will no longer address it or respond to people who presume to tell me what my thoughts and motives are. Roger, for the good of this place, please let this die. I am out of this thread.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: I love the mudcat.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 01:23 AM

Shambles has just given us the best example of a qualified apology. Who are you to reprimand Mick? Asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: I love the mudcat.
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 05:05 PM

You guys report to Aian. She'll put you both in a corner for some timeout. Stout fellows both, no glarefights needed. Smooth yer feathers, guys.

A