Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Bert
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 02:16 PM

You're at a sing and there's that one person who's too shy and keeps passing on every turn. After some persuasion from 'the gang' they finally pluck up the courage and sing a song.

Isn't that just one of the BEST MOMENTS EVER?

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: kendall
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 03:02 PM

I'll be happy if I live long enough to hear ALL of the Mudcatters. Bert, your comment was right on!! This thread reminds me of a previous one,, "what is the best song ever written?" The whole thing is just too subjective to say.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Molly Malone
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 02:54 PM

Well, I have to say I've never heard and Mudcatters play that I know of, but I'm a lonely soul here in the Valley of the Sun.

I would however love to know where I can hear Mudcatters. Is there a place we can find CD info for Mudcatters? I don't keep traces on this except at work, and the radio shows are definately when I'm at home.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 02:43 PM

Boy, if Yogi Berra had played the fiddle, he woulda said that!

A

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 02:36 PM

To Black Walnut: I loved your metaphor about turning the ladder sideways (not the least for it being a compliment to yet a third erson!) and hope you won't mind if I steal it. Last year at Clifftop people were quoting Tommy Jarrell:" Anybody who enters a fiddle contest deserves to lose." (Sounds like Yogi to me) Pete Peterson at work

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: JedMarum
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:50 AM

right on Bert! And I do agree with Rick's reluctance to participate in the rating of art, and performers ... but I must say I was also impressed with Max's music. I am sure there are many other talented Mudcatters, but I haven't heard many play yet ...

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:43 AM

Aren't you the one who thought she could shoot straight through a hardwood door? What does that say about the merits of your evaluation??

A

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Bert
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:42 AM

RIIIGHT ON THERE honestfrankie, I love it. Send Max a CD or Tape and we'll play it on Mudcat Radio. 'Cos we only play the best on there.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: honestfrankie
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:38 AM

Hello Mudcatters,

Well once again there seems to be some minor bickering going on so I will set things straight. I am the best player on this site so if you are hiring someone to play and have an awful lot of money to pay then look no further.I AM THE BEST(AND MOST EXPENSIVE)

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 10:07 AM

And therein lies the key to why this is a dumb question to start a thread with! Catters' and folkies generally are not seeking zero-sum games, like those played by the NFL; they are doing something of a higher calling, creating games where all players win. This works much better (as long as t'other ain't a grizzly bar.)

A

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Bert
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 10:00 AM

Well I've heard a lot of different Mudcatters and I loved EVERY ONE OF 'EM. When it comes to your turn in the circle and YOU are playing that's the time when YOU ARE THE BEST.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 09:57 AM

Nicely put, Walnut. And I am glad we have genuine masters like Rick to keep us in touch with the real dynamics of "taking it to the streets", since I (and I think many of us) mostly just keep it in my living room any more.

A.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: black walnut
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 09:40 AM

rick, i'm really glad they pulled you into this 'discussion'. you are the best one i know to answer this kind of thread. rick is excellent at what he does, but he does everything and more to ensure that folk music is there for everyone.

i'm relatively new to folk music, and rick is one of several who has (mostly unknowingly) encouraged me to jam, to perform, to ask questions, and even to teach. my favourite concert of rick's was up at 'the woods music and dance camp'. throughout the concert, which he could have very well and beautifully performed solo , he invited various campers to come to the stage and back him up on a variety of instruments. most of these campers were amateur musicians, just doing the best they could, as most of us do, with our various day jobs and families, but everyone felt special that night. everyone in the audience was feeling might special, too, rick.

so what i'm trying to say is that you can try to make a mudcatter ladder, but at least one of the guys on the top is doing his best to turn the ladder sideways so we can share the view.

thanks, rick.

~black walnut

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,lloyd61
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 08:15 AM

Thanks Rick. We neeeded to hear from you about this dumb thread.

Lloyd61

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 02:02 AM

I apologise for swearing earlier. 'Tweren't neccessary obviously. I'm afraid that folks obsession with "Who's the best" when they haven't invested the time or energy to "listen to the rest" is just a sore point with me.

Rick

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,_gargoyle
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 12:07 AM

Agreed it is an assinine thread

However, for those outside the U.S.A. you are probably unaware that it was "SuperBowlWeekEnd" and such drivel has been spewed for three weeks leading up to this "event" (actually, it was the best one I have seen...most are mismatches) and for three weeks everthing from "The Best....team...beer....toilet-paper....mutual-fund.....deoderant....) is flamed across the public consciouness as if it really made a difference.

So excuse the poor chap, being a "picker" he is probably an American caught up in the excesses of the weekend.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 02:37 PM

Oh, Davey lad .... you done it again. I knew there was a right answer in there somewhere!!!

A

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 02:32 PM

The best players on Mudcat....hhhmmmm let me see.....I think its that group called THE MUDCATTERS yeah thats it the Mudcatters I like them they are good!

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 01:40 PM

Leave me the fuck out of this! (and when was the last time I used profanity in what I consider the most decent web on the net?)

I appreciate the compliments, but lemme tell you something. The stupidest oft-repeated question I have had to deal with since I became a professional stringed instrument player is "Who do ya think is the greatest guitar player (or banjo, or fiddler, or mandolin, or whatever) in the world (or the universe, or in history etc,)

It is rarely asked by anyone with the knowledge, skill or subtlety to appreciate anything more than a surface answer, but since I try to be nice to other human beings, I usually give a polite but non-commital answer.

If someone wants to know who the greatest guitarist is and is only familiar with the artists who have been served well by the media...then they can only relate to a name that's already part of that very short list. Same with songwriters, fiddlers, banjoists, inventors, hockey players, and writers. If someone seems interested in "walking the walk" rather than just "talking the talk" I'll do everything I can to open a few doors that lead to an amazing underground world of folk music.

Anyone remember when years ago "Clapton is God" was an oft-repeated mantra? Do you think those who said it had even heard of Oscar Aleman, Teddy Bunn, Amos Garrett, Danny Gatton or even BB King, Charlie Christian or Eddie Lang?

Considering I failed Geography, math, and French, I sure wouldn't be venturing opinions on the "greatest country, coolest equation, or most romantic language".

On the other hand, if ya wanna make an informed decision on who the most technically accomplished two finger picker in the key of "D" is...well I've got these 2000 records I want you to hear, and if ya can spare the next 5 years of your life.........

Rick

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: skarpi
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 05:49 AM

hallo all, I think that until I have heard everyone on the mudcat forum play , I am not gonna say or write enything about this. That is very wrong to do.

All the skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Musicman
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 05:35 AM

maybe the question to ask is not "Who is the best?" but "Who do you respect the most?"
"Who do you respect the most?" can be/ and will be very personal, but, it tends to be less 'right or wrong', which, in an industry such as music, can be very hard to determine, especially when one has not heard all the players.............

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: dusterjim
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 04:11 AM

Hey some of the best players I've known are the ones who play "second fiddle". second fiddle is always the hardest to play whether it be folk, blues, gospel, country, bluegrass, or whatever because one, you are not portrayed as the best, and two, "second fiddle" has to not only understand the lead, but how their part fits and compliments the lead. So hey, all you backup players out there, you get my vote.

duster
http://sites.netscape.net/dusterjim1/volunteers

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,The Thread Watcher
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 03:08 AM

"It's purely a question of opinions, based on omitted information". Is thet right Amos? Sounds like one of your posts to me. Go back to luminous pickles and troll a bit there.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Garry of Australia
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 03:03 AM

saying folkies are good musicians is a paradox like army intelligence

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,lloyd61
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 02:37 AM

O' NO, I'm a guest now.....My Lap top must not have a "cookie". WOW is me.

Lloyd61

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,lloyd61
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 02:34 AM

Mirror, Mirror on the wall, who's the best picker of them all?

"Not you Lloyd"

Mirror, Mirror I really need to know

"Why, what really matters is, who can steal the show"

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 02:12 AM

Wal, folks, I dunno who the Dog-In-Lap handle belongs to, but one sure sign of a successful troll is the amount of traffic it generates in response to a question that is desinged lest to be answered than to lure answering from others. Do a quick semantic analysis of the original question and it comes up pretty near null, because no standards of merit, no testing criteria, no requirements, have been defined. Failing those, it's purely a question of opinions, based on omitted information; I think the world has enough of those flying around!

A

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 02:12 AM

Art Thieme has done some damn fine fingerpicking(listen to Betty and Dupree on The Older I Get album). Rick Fielding has a great diversity to his playing that I like. But one of the best Mudcat blues pickers I've heard is Max Spiegel. He's great on the Delta stuff.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,faswilli2
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 01:51 AM

once again, someone asks a simple question and you gotta read into it and riducule it. Some of you have your little clique and seem to enjoy sticking it to anyone from the outside. I also sit here with a guitar on lap going into database but now I remember why I stay out of these juvenile threads. my last ever input.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 12:15 AM

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 12:07 AM

Thanks for the compliment Guest.
Now exactly what am I the best player at?

BB

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 30 Jan 00 - 12:04 AM

I loved that Vancouver story! Couple of years ago at Florida Oldtime Music Championships (they have a contest each year) the five finalists in the banjo contest entered the string band contest (while waiting for the banjo finals) with five banjos sitting side by side.(playing in at least three different styles: VGO in old minstrel "stroke" style, me in imitation classical, and three clawhammer players. We were disqualified for not having a fiddle and a guitar. I keep contrasting old time music "contests" where everybody knows and cheers everybody else with the horse shows my daughters used to go to, which, to mix metaphors, were definitely dog eat dog and a lot of hard feelings. To answer the original question, have not met enough of my fellow Catters to have an intelligent opinion but have liked and respected everybody I have met, probably each for a different reason! I second Ferrara's high opinion of Roger in Baltimore-- the chops are there when he needs them but he uses them so unobtrusively that you don't NOTICE the skill level, just the great music! And I hope and intend to hear Rick F. play One Of These Days.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 11:51 PM

Banjo Bonnie

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Brendy
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 11:30 PM

I think it is an 'honest' thread (depends of course on your definition), and as a general rule I don't compare one person's abilities on a Good to Bad scale.
Personally I don't think about musicians in those terms. But if others do, well that's fair enough.
I also believe that we should be light hearted about things, and stop trying to see everything suspiciously.
No one I think gets suckered in anywhere on the Mudcat. It is after all OUR choice to be here. We either contribute to a discussion or we don't.
So instead of trying to find out who the 'cool catters' are, we start discussing motivations of the original poster.
That ain't cool.

B.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Nobody Real Important
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 11:24 PM

I thought we all agreed not to respond to this kind of garbage. Now is the time........

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 11:19 PM

very odd thread ... maybe we got suckered in, but see some honest answers, so here mine; without a doubt Rick's the man! A true developed talent ... took what mother nature gave him and ran with it!

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Brendy
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 10:52 PM

Nice one Oh Saltheart. Will sure tune in.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 10:49 PM

At the Vancouver, British Columbia, Folk Festival about 7 or 8 years ago the promoters scheduled and hyped the battle of the Greats, 4 great guitar pickers headed by Martin Carthy, Davie Graham and two others I've forgotten. The pickers were smarter than the promoters. They all picked pieces to play that were in such different styles, that there was just no way one could compare any two of them.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Mbo
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 10:44 PM

You can make up yer own minds about me--I think I'm gonna be on Mudcat Radio on Wednesday!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 10:44 PM

Hell let's form a group .....oh, we already have haven't we.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 10:42 PM

I'm with you Bugsy ... I don't give a shit ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Bugsy
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 10:36 PM

'Spaw, I'm with You. But then again with a face like mine, I'll be with anyone who'll have me along!!!

Cheers

Bugsy

whoreallydontgiveashitwhosthebest.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 10:33 PM

Soory folks...I had an idea this may have been a setup of sorts, but I didn't mind playing along. Like I said, I haven't by any means heard everyone and I know the RiB, Michael K, Liam Devlin, and a lot of others are truly fine musicians, but I do think Rick has a ton of talent and ability. Michael K had a good point too. But now I see this is simply becoming another little "I'm having fun fight" and I have stayed out of the others lately, so I'll withdraw from this one.

Geesiz, I hate to stop responding to every GUEST, but it looks to be a good idea anymore. Ya' know this didn't have to be a contest on this thread, but now its worse and I've about had it with the whole thing.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Brendy
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 10:21 PM

Weii, not having heard too many musicians on the 'Mudcat', Rick Fielding excepted (and yes, he is very good), perhaps a 'site' could be organised where people could 'post' pieces of their own work for exchange purposes etc.
I say this because I would like to hear some of you folks and exchange ideas, not only in 'verbal' terms (which we do here), but in the terms which bind us all here in the first place.
It is in that context where I agree with the sentiment that started this thread. Further, I would also make reference to a recent 'gentleperson's' agreement, which sort of all round agreed that unpleasantness and un-necessary comments about the content of threads which catered for 'minority' interests would remain in the realms of the 'Personal Messages'.
Are we here to discuss what is wrong with the content of a thread, or are we all going to be 'neighbourly'?

Breandán

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: Banjer
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 08:41 PM

I went to a local folk music festival today. I listened to both ends of the "ability spectrum". There were groups and individuals there that played professionaly and those that played once in a while just as a hobby. There were areas set aside for both types. It was very refreshing to see some of the very talented pros come out and get into the jams during their scheduled sets. While the pros could run some 'hotter licks' than their amateur counterparts, the one thing that stood out is that everybody was having a wonderful time! There was no 'I can anything you can do better' attitudes there at all. Just an all over spirit of enjoyment. This is an annual event in our area and I am already looking forward to next year!

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 08:29 PM

Was I right? Or was I right? And I wish I'd been wrong.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,With Guitar on Lap and Dog At Side
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 08:27 PM

Jeepers Áine, does this mean that I wouldn't be invited to a gathering or a song circle at your house?

I think it's a tough question, but a relevant and interesting question. It can easily be answered without offending anyone's sensibilities or egos.

Sorry it isn't milk-toasty and watered-down enough for you....or non music-related.

.....and since when do YOU represent the other people here on Mudcat? Last time I checked, Sorcha spoke for everyone.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: wildlone
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 08:18 PM

BTW I lost my cookie earlier today.The first thing I did was reset it when MC came back on line.

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: wildlone
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 08:16 PM

I think that we will be getting a lot of such postings from various "GUESTS".
One day the gentleman concerned will be found buried under the 8 foot pile of music he says he owns.
But those that can do,those that cannot criticise

Subject: RE: Who are the BEST players on Mudcat?
From: MK
Date: 29 Jan 00 - 08:06 PM

Well there's Fetuccini Alfredo, and then there's Kraft Dinner.

Bottom line is, if you enjoy listening to someone perform, is it really important to know all of the ingredients that go into making making them sound so good?

If you are a true blue musician, then sure, be curious, be inquisitive. It's natural to want to disect and really look at the technical end of what they're doing and how they tie it all together, relate and compare their level of expertise to your own so that maybe you can learn or steal a lick or two.

But if you're just an average person, with no special musical talent you can enjoy something, without needing to know why you enjoy it.

I am sure there are some truly great pickers here, as well as some who are on the way, some mediocre players and as well those who self confess to sucking. Bottom line we all enjoy playing or we wouldn't do it.