BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: WyoWoman
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 12:56 AM

Dear Guest of a Guest, Maybe copy editors are dry, dry, dry, but I can tell you the business of daily journalism is suffering right now for lack of people who can actually spot the difference between their, they're and there, or it and it's or who know that a wrought-iron gate is not a rod iron gate, regardless of what spellchek sez. My KINGDOM for a couple of good copy editors...

And, by the way, Ryan, if you ever come back: The Mudcat just hit a bad patch there for a while, thanks, as you said, to an obnoxious old fuck and some accusatory pricks, which may sound like a good name for a band but really isn't. Anyway, don't judge the 'Cat by a few crummy posts. It isn't usually like this, and we'll find some equilibrium soon. Or just some librium...

WyoWoman

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 01:05 AM

Librium would be good, but I take Zoloft.........I would love to be a copy editor, even asked our local small-town paper Mother May I, and they said, no, we don't need one, we have this great new computer that DOES IT ALL1!(??)We have more mistakes now than then. Times were different then.............THREAD CREEP ALERT!

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Robo
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 01:06 AM

'Xactly, Áine. Although I would differ with you slightly on the "those who can, do; those who can't, teach." It's more a matter of lending a talent to a collaborative enterprise, no?. I've been both writer, editor and proofreader. Neither is easy, and all produce pride in the 'doer.' As a writer, I look to capture my thoughts as clearly as I can. As an editor, I then look to polish the text to ensure that what I'm reading is actually what I meant to say. As a proofreader, I try to catch the typos so none of us looks silly in print. The three skills always make the writing process complete -- they're just not always found in the same person.

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 03:26 AM

Hey, you grammar jumkies - get your heads around "the king of England's hat". And (oops!) don't bother to tell me we haven't got a king ...

Elliptically, Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Áine
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 08:26 AM

Dear Rob-o,

Please understand that I am *not* one of the proponents of 'those who can do, those who can't teach', especially since I am a teacher of young children. That obnoxious phrase has always made the hair on the back of my neck rise. I agree whole-heartedly with you about the skills needed in writing, and that they aren't always found in the same person. You expressed it succintly and well. May I quote you?

--

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 08:49 AM

Let us praise those who can and do communicate; and thank those who help make it happen. The best of messages can be harmed by neglect of clear conventions. But the best of conventions can also chill the heart of communication when not used wisely.

I could not love good editing half so much, loved I not good writing more!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Peg
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 10:44 AM

hi all; wow it turned into a thread about grammar, language and editing...wild.

I have taught college English for years, and am now a freelance writer and editor...and agree with WyoWoman that we need more editors who actually know a few things about grammar and usage, not to mention, ahem, writing... once, in an article I did for a local arts paper, I wrote a sentence which was a reference to Gershwin, ending with the words '"but it ain't necessarily so." My "editor" amended that to read "it's not necessarily true." DUH>>>>>>

also, just a correction to what was said earlier re: Winston Churchill...I think the quotation (not quote, that refers to those little marks, you ungrammatical ignoramuses you! ;~0) refered to as originating with the great statesman was the second one, "This is something up with which I will not put"--

the other one, "Mother, what did you bring the book I didn't want to be read to out of up for?" is from an old joke/anecdote and has been cited in the record books as the sentence with the most prepositions at the end... HOWEVER, it usually refers to a child who did not want to be read from a bedtime book about Australia, and reads thusly:

"Mother, what did you bring the book I didn't want to be read to out of about 'Down Under' up for?"

and I am pretty sure it was not Winston Churchill who said this...

nor is the R.J. Stewart who produces "Xena Warrior Princess" the same R. J. Stewart who wrote all the books on Celtic mythology...

and other misunderstandings...

like, you know, whatever....

peg

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: sophocleese
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 12:17 PM

My favourite misprint in a newspaper occurred in an article about a new program in the schools, "We hope to install a sense of environmental awareness in the students." That's great, just drive 'em into the shop and we'll put that microchip in behind the left ear.

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Mbo
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 12:30 PM

Yes, as a grammar weirdy I also have a totally different take on writing. They always told me over the years--first do a rough draft, than continually edit and fix, until it becomes the final draft. I can't do that. I sit there and put everything I want to say on paper in one sitting. Sure, I might change a few things here and there--but I like to concentrate as much as possible on the one topic before I move on the the next paragraph. And usually the spelling and grammar is pretty much right from the get go. It works--almost all the papers I've written (except 3 hmmmph!) have got A's. "Everyone to their own taste," as the old lady said when she kissed the cow.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: MMario
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 12:50 PM

Mbo - I had the same experience in college, though now I find myself sadly out of practice. I do wish that I could find a copy of my paper "My Pen, My Pencil and My Typewriter"

I found I write/compose differently depending on what I use to write (physically).

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 01:28 PM

MM, that's a barrelhouse of a notion; the medium is the massage. The tool tells the writer how to talk! This means that all through the wilding mazes of the 'Cat, we are mostly listening to the voices of Fingerprints (except 'spaw who uses his coccyx).

Now, if we were chiseling these threads in balsa wood or p'raps spreading them on huge sheets of newsprint using fingerpaints, we would come up with entirely different communications! The somato-utilitarian school of communication theory! Quick, give this man a PhD on me!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Troll
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 01:34 PM

Amos, MM has a good point. I'm a lot less wordy on a keyboard than with a pen because I'm a lousy typist. On second thought, this is probably a good thing. I tend to ramble.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 01:47 PM

I agree wiht MMario and I would love to read that paper! When I was in radio & had to write copy fast, I learned to write in one zip through on the typewriter. I continued my op/ed writing and creative pieces in longhand first, then typed. THEN I got a computer, old 286. Oh! What fun! I still am not a great typist, but I am good enough that I find my fingers tripping over themselves to keep up when I have a good thought going. If I try that by handwriting, now, it becomes illegible and frustrating because my hands get crapped, they can't write fast enough, and I find myself editing in my mind as I go along, thus not including all that I would like to.

BUT, psychologically, it goes even further for me. When I joined ICQ and first heard the sound effect of the old fashioned typewriter, I thought I'd died and gone to writer's heaven! For some reason, even though my typewriter NEVER sounded like that, I love that sound and it sparks my creativity and motivation.

I've asked before to no avail....anyone know how I can get that sound into my keyboard or WP for all the time motivation?

Oh, adn as someone whose column is carried in Wyo Woman's paper? She is a wonderful editor, a fantastic writer, and has improved the quality of said paper immeasurably, and I am freelance, so I am not saying that to "suck up".**BG** I believe a good editor is also someone who can write well....keeps it all in balance and that is what life is all about, right?

katlaughing

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Mbo
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 02:04 PM

You said it kat! And hey, if this art or music thing doesn't work out, I could always be an editor! I've got the job now, proofreading my youngest sister's papers. Phew, haven't edited in a while there. Makes me feel good!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 05:04 PM

Berea gave placement tests to all incoming freshman students. I was assigned to a comp class with only a dozen students, the "cream of the crop." This could have been a complete disaster but the prof was a fine gentleman named Jerome Hughes. He dispensed with all the normal texts and assignments given to other classes and turned this group into a VERY loosely structured creative writing class. He threw out all the rules and said, "Write." It was a great class. When the semester exam came around, he said there was only one subject and he began to write on the blackboard. The first word he wrote was "Describe." Everyone gave good-natured hoots, hollers, and boos. He then wrote "briefly." Fulfilling my role as resident smart-ass (some things never change), I said, "Big improvement!" He turned and stared and a huge grin came over his face. Turning back to the board he added a period. GREAT TEACHER!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Coming Clear about all the song requests
From: Robo
Date: 15 Feb 00 - 11:58 PM

Áine . . . you can quote me any time! (Sorry for the delay in responding. Lost track of the thread.)