Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams

Subject: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 05:39 PM

Ralph Vaughan Williams' piece for concert band, "Sea Songs" uses three shanties. I have not been able to locate "Princess Royale" which is the title the composer lists in the score. Lesly Nelsen directed me to "Bold Princes Royale" but it does not resemble Vaughan Williams' material found in the band work. If anyone has a clue to this I would appreciate help. If you email me, I can send you a midi file of what the shantie sounds like. Perhaps you know it by a different title. [e-mail] THANKS

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: MMario
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 05:52 PM

the DT has three tunes for princess royal. two are hither

and the third is thither

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: Jacob B
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 05:54 PM

It is likely to be the Morris dance tune of that name.

I wouldn't be able to access a MIDI file, but perhaps you can find an on-line source of Morris dance scores. I've been told that only one collected version of the tune is in a major key.

If that doesn't work, I'll try to think of something else.

Jacob

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 08:07 PM

When Sir Henry Wood wrote his 'Fantasia on Sea Songs' which is used in the Last Night of the Proms series,one of the songs is The Saucy Arethusa which, itself uses the tune of Princes Royal.The words are in Captain Whall's 'Sea Songs, Ships and Shanties, where he describes it as a 'Specimen of a Shore Manufactured Sea Song.'

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:30 PM

I suspect Vaughn Williams used the tune for the English folk song "The Princess Royal". Another "Princess Royal" is in Walsh's first book of "The Compleat Country Dancing Master", 1731 (not the same as the 1718 one, although there's some overlapping), and in his 3rd book, 1735 is "Princess Royal the New Way". This latter is Carolan's "Miss MacDermott" and is the one that Wm. Shield used for the song "The Arethusa" (a 2nd song of that title), and not that for the English folksong.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: Lesley N.
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 05:39 PM

Bud, Bruce gives The Arethusa as a possiblity. I have that at The Arethusa (http://www.contemplator.com/folk4/arethusa.html). At the bottom of the page are links to Carolan's tune Princess Royal (which has midis of both a single line melody and a full arrangment of the tune), Bold Nelson's Praise (which also used the tune) and Napoleon's Lamentation - which is a variant.

Hopefully one of those will ring a bell.

Told you these people were great!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: Snuffy
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 07:13 PM

Carolan's tune "Princess Royal/Miss Mcdermott" at Lesleys's website is the Princess Royal in the Vaughan Williams, and the Arethusa in the Henry Wood. Lesley has three different sets of words to this tune but none of them mention the Princess Royal. Bold Arethusa and Nelson's praise are nominally nautical, but not really shanties.

This tune does not fit any of the Princess Royal/Kelly the Pirate songs in the Digital Tradition Database, but it is the progenitor of the Princes(s) Royal tunes used in the Morris traditions of:

• Abingdon (set dance)
• Adderbury (set dance)
• Bampton (jig)
• Bidford-on-Avon (set dance)
• Bledington (jig)
• Bucknell (jig)
• Ducklington (jig)
• Fieldtown (Leafield etc) (jig)
• Longborough (jig)
• Oddington (jig)
• Sherborne (jig)
• Stanton Harcourt (set dance)

Also, in the Ilmington tradition, it is the tune used for the jig Nelson's Praise.

(Set dances were done by a set of 6 men, while jigs were solos performed by one or two men).

Wassail

V

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: Snuffy
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 07:15 PM

Sorry, I forgot to switch of the italics! </I>

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 07:26 PM

Vaughn Williams collected the English folk song "The Princess Royal" and published it in 'Folk Songs of the Eastern Counties', but I don't have a copy of that and don't know its date of publication. [Steve Roud's folk song index, with a lot of other copies, traditional and broadside.]

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: Lesley N.
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 09:37 PM

Vaughn Williams: Folk Songs from the Eastern Counties (Folk Songs of England, Vol.2) (London: Novello, 1908)

Bruce, Steve sent me a copy of his bibliography via e-mail when I got the Indexes. I can send you a copy if you'd like it.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 11:07 PM

Thanks Lesley, I think I've got it, but was to lazy to look it up. I have other pressing business at present. One item of which is to do a review of Steve Roud's indexes (where I've pointed out that it's the most extensive bibliography of folk song sources I've ever seen) combined with one on the Bodley Ballads website for 'Folk Music Journal'. {Mike Heaney, who was the leader of the Bodley Ballads project, is also editor of FMJ.)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: Lesley N.
Date: 01 Feb 00 - 11:36 PM

Sounds great. I just went to the FMJ Website (http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/users/mh/fmj/) and it looks fantastic. I will not only subscribe and look for your article, but look for some back issues!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sea Songs, Vaughan Williams
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Feb 00 - 07:43 PM

You could always check with Cecil Sharpe House, to see if they have a copy. Incidentally, they'll be looking for a new librarian there in the very near future.... bugger, I've just started working for the IRS, I can't resign before I get my first month's wages!!

LTS

C Sharpe House is in NW London, can't put my hand on the address at the moment.....

sorry.