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Folk Songs NOT to Ditch

Bob Schwarer phidea@cris.com 03 Jun 97 - 08:02 PM
Joe Offer 03 Jun 97 - 08:34 PM
Dale Rose 04 Jun 97 - 12:01 AM
Andy Geliher 04 Jun 97 - 08:17 AM
Peter Timmerman 04 Jun 97 - 11:06 AM
Bill D --extree@erols.com 04 Jun 97 - 12:26 PM
Sheye 04 Jun 97 - 05:42 PM
dick greenhaus 04 Jun 97 - 11:43 PM
Alan of Australia 05 Jun 97 - 02:24 AM
Bill D 06 Jun 97 - 12:08 AM
Alan of Australia 06 Jun 97 - 01:25 AM
jh 06 Jun 97 - 10:57 AM
Dale Rose 06 Jun 97 - 12:07 PM
Rodney Rawlings 06 Jun 97 - 09:53 PM
Allan Samuels 09 Jun 97 - 11:47 PM
Bob Clayton (rjclayton@aol.com) 24 Jun 97 - 02:31 PM
kiwi@unagi.cybernothing.org 25 Jun 97 - 02:16 PM
Paul Kennedy 26 Jun 97 - 01:22 PM
Buzz Keiper (buzz@usi.com) 06 Jul 97 - 02:22 AM
BK 06 Jul 97 - 10:20 AM
Kiwi 06 Jul 97 - 01:43 PM
Rick 07 Jul 97 - 03:24 AM
Laoise, Belfast 07 Jul 97 - 10:09 AM
Buzz 07 Jul 97 - 11:08 PM
chet 08 Jul 97 - 07:16 PM
Kiwi 08 Jul 97 - 08:45 PM
Buzz@usi.com 09 Jul 97 - 12:01 AM
Kiwi 09 Jul 97 - 11:07 AM
Buzz 10 Jul 97 - 12:25 AM
Bert Hansell 10 Jul 97 - 08:42 AM
Bert Hansell 10 Jul 97 - 08:46 AM
Kiwi 10 Jul 97 - 10:22 AM
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Subject: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Bob Schwarer phidea@cris.com
Date: 03 Jun 97 - 08:02 PM

How about a thread relating to songs you wouldn't mind hearing every day? (Or at least once a week?.....OK every few weeks) without tearing out your hair.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jun 97 - 08:34 PM

That could be a loaded question, Bob. The songs I want to hear over and over and the same ones the person sitting next to me can't stand. At almost every song circle I attend somebody requests Si Kahn's "Aragon Mill," and Bill Staines' "River." I haven't gotten tired of them yet. Yeah, I'd say those two have 'staying power.'

"Waltzing With Bears" is another favorite. I still like it, but I ofter hear a bit of grumbling when it's requested. I could stand to hear it a bit less often, but I think it's a great song.

I know it has been listed on the list of songs to ditch and there are times I get tired of it, but we have a special person in our song circle who always requests "Today." We always love to sing it for him.

May I suggest that we should be very gentle in criticizing any songs people post in this thread? I may not like a song myself, but it may bring back wonderful memories for somebody else.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Dale Rose
Date: 04 Jun 97 - 12:01 AM

Well, you are right there, Joe. There are obviously people who can listen to "Danny Boy", "Rocky Top", and "Orange Blossom Special", to name a few, every day of the week. Otherwise, why would they ask for them? Just a few of my own favorites~~The ORIGINAL instrumental version of "San Antonio Rose" by Bob Wills. I have heard this uncounted times since I first heard it as a child in about 1944, and I have yet to tire of it. Gordon Lightfoot's version of "Bobby McGee", but don't expect me to sit through anybody else's version without squirming. "When The Roses Bloom Again" by Mac and Bob and more recently by The Dowden Sisters of Mt. View, AR never fails to give me chills. "The Minstrel Boy", "Mississippi Sawyer", "Rakes Of Mallow", "Red Wing", "The Uncloudy Day", "The Trumpet Vine", "Shamus O'Brien", "Little Liza Jane", "When I Can Read My Titles Clear", "The Bramble And The Rose", "Lorena", "Dry And Dusty"~~well, you get the picture, these are just a few of the songs that I NEVER tire of hearing, but which very possibly would drive SOMEONE up the nearest wall after just one listening. Oh, yeah, if you are still there, thanks for reading MY list of songs NOT to ditch.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Andy Geliher
Date: 04 Jun 97 - 08:17 AM

For many years now, my favourite song from the British tradition has been Tam Lin. I've even gone as far as to publish this view on my homepage , but I definitely wouldn't want to listen to it every day, and with 25+ verses it doesn't get sung too often.

Then again, for over 30 years I've been listening to the songs and music of UK singer/songwriter Leon Rosselson, and I've not tired of them yet. (But if you aren't "a socialist" you probably wouldn't get past the first chorus). Again these songs are seldom performed in the clubs I attend.

I think, as I infer Bob does, that "favourite song" and "rarely sung" go together ?
Any views anybody.

AndyG


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Peter Timmerman
Date: 04 Jun 97 - 11:06 AM

Jumping threads, an interesting side discussion in my group has been about what songs are impervious. There seem to be some interesting categories, for example:

1) Songs that get better with age (your age). That is, you don't get tired of them, because you find more in them. An example put foward was the Beatles, "In My Life". It is simple, but it gets more poignant as time passes.

2) Songs that keep surprising. This is often associated with the mystery of changing chords or tune. One example (not a folk song) was Cole Porter's "Every Time You Say Goodbye", where there is a line, "but how strange the change from major to minor", and the song does that. Always new. (Exra Pound once called poetry news that stays news).

3) Songs that are just deep. I always find "Fire and Rain" moving, no matter who sings it or how often.

4) Songs that are ambiguous, so you never quite pin them down. "Mr. Tambourine Man" seems to fit this for some people.

5) And of course the big one: songs that were associated with your own youth!!!

Yours, Peter


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Bill D --extree@erols.com
Date: 04 Jun 97 - 12:26 PM

"Rose of Allendale"..."The Vacant Chair" "The Outside Track"(I've forgotten the author, LaMarca)..."When the Yellow's on the Broom" "Sheath & Knife" (din't dget tired of it, but usually need some recovery time)..."Rolling Home".(when done right...slowly and powerfully, not as a bouncy 'show tune')..."Ned of the Hill"....

wow...that's just off the top of my head in 2 minutes..It's like when you need to think of a song to sing..something needs to jog the memory... I inagine I could add 100 to that list if I just went thru some books & records...and the more songs on the list, the less chance I will get tired of any of them!!(Maybe, in the last analysis, that is the secret).


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Sheye
Date: 04 Jun 97 - 05:42 PM

I don't know about every day ... but Amazing Grace clears the mind and sooths the soul. It reminds me how little I am and how great we all are.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Jun 97 - 11:43 PM

One thing that makes folksongs ditchable is the gradual homogenization that seems to occur whenever EVERYBODY sings it. I recently heard Doc Watson sing one of the songs I've become sickest of over the years: I Gave My Love a Cherry. Absolutely gorgeous!

Campfire songs, sadly, don't lend themselves to interesting phrasing, or harmonizing. As a result, an evening of such tends to have a certain enervating sameness.

Maybe we shouldn't ditch songs, but rather ditch styles. Or maybe even some singers.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 05 Jun 97 - 02:24 AM

To Bill D,

"The Outside Track", words by Henry Lawson 1867-1922, one of our best known poets, tune Gerry Hallom.

My partial list of songs to keep:

Ballads: Little Musgrave, Anachie Gordon, Willie of Winsbury, Bruton Town, Annan Water................

Aussie: Waltzing Matilda (either version, check out http://waltzingmatilda.com/), Reedy River (Henry Lawson), Do You Think That I Do Not Know (Lawson), Ryebuck Shearer, Moreton Bay, The Catalpa plus others probably too obscure for the rest of the world.

Other trad: The Ash Grove (I learnt it in 1956, still like it), The Rose Of Allendale (another vote), Die Gedanked Sind Frei, Kelvin Grove, Spancil Hill..............

And many more.

Cheers,

Alan


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jun 97 - 12:08 AM

Alan... should have known about "The Outside Track"...I have been singing "Do You Think That I Do Not Know" for years!(There several of us here who really covet Australian songbooks & records and share them around) I also sing "Reedy Lagoon" and "Broken Down Squatter" and a number of others..)

Ballads...all those you mentioned and so many more...I'll add some later...

Also, I love silly songs...clever silly songs, not inane silly songs...


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE ROBOT SHEARER (Alan Foster parody)
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 06 Jun 97 - 01:25 AM

To Bill D,

Good to hear about your interest in Aussie songs. If you also like silly songs, what about silly Aussie songs:-

THE ROBOT SHEARER
By Alan Foster

Based on the Australian traditional song "Ryebuck Shearer" and inspired by the fact that a robot has been invented which is supposed to shear sheep.

I come from a factory and my name is F.R.E.D.
With bolts in my guts and chips in my head
My atomic reactor is safely lined with lead
And of course I'm a Robot Shearer.

CHORUS: If I don't shear a tally before I go
My microchips I will surely blow
And straight back to the factory I'll go
To reprogram the Robot Shearer.

Well the acronym F.R.E.D. is not very nice
Ridiculous Electronic Device
What the F stands for you'll not have to guess twice
And they call me the Robot Shearer.

Well the ringer he's a great big red headed lug
He said, "I'll beat this bionic mug"
But he only won 'cause he pulled my plug
And disabled the Robot Shearer.

There's a long haired bloke by the name of Clyde
What he said about me well it wounded my pride
When last seen he was wearing short back and sides
That's one for the Robot Shearer.

It happened one day while shearing a ram
With the delicate touch of my metallic hand
That it didn't quite work out the way I planned
He'll not forget the Robot Shearer.

Whether wool or flesh I can hardly guess
So the sheep often leave in a state of distress
I once heard someone say that I was RS
Which of course stands for Robot Shearer.

LAST CHORUS: If I don't shear a tally before I go
My microchips I will surely blow
And straight back to the factory I'll go
To recycle the Robot Shearer.


Cheers,

Alan

P.S. I don't know whether RS needs explaining outside Oz, it stands for two words, the first being rat and the polite meaning is dysfunctional. Also ringer means best shearer.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: jh
Date: 06 Jun 97 - 10:57 AM

Dick Greenhaus, How did you manage to hear Doc Watson sing recently? He's been dead for a number of years!


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Dale Rose
Date: 06 Jun 97 - 12:07 PM

You are probably thinking of his son, Merle Watson, who died in a tractor accident some years ago. Doc is still singing and playing up there with the best of them. He did consider retirement for a time after Merle was killed. Fortunately for us all, he did not do so.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Rodney Rawlings
Date: 06 Jun 97 - 09:53 PM

The great thing about good songs is that you can make yourself sick of them by playing or singing them ad nauseam, and then go back to them after a while or hear them by accident and fall under their spell. There is something timeless in the structure of a good melody or melody-plus-lyric that engages the higher faculties despite great familiarity with a song. We just need to give it a rest sometimes, go on to new things, then return.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Allan Samuels
Date: 09 Jun 97 - 11:47 PM

I hear songs by specific people in my head. When I play my mental tapes I listen to Springfield Mine Disaster and Early Morning Rain by PP&M. Judy Collins doing Bonnie Ship The Diamond. Old Blue by Gibson & Camp. The Ox Drining Song by the Brothers Four. And Malageuna Salerosa by Bud and Travis. Changes and Red Velvet by Ian & Sylvia. There's more -- but that's about a nickles worth. Keep the change. Allan


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Bob Clayton (rjclayton@aol.com)
Date: 24 Jun 97 - 02:31 PM

Interesting that "Rose of Allendale" should appear on the "Ditch" and "Don't Ditch" lists, and that "Amazing Grace" should, too. I'd have to vote for "Rose," and I've just noticed that I myself don't sing it. That is, it's not in my repertoire, either active or defunct. But I get a thrill every time I hear it sung, particularly in a house concert or song circle, and particularly particularly when sung by Dick Holdstock and Allan MacLeod. There's something about their rendition that adds to the emotional impact of that high note the chorus starts on.

Some of the other songs mentioned here show that performance plays a large part in our perception of any given song, as does our histories. Another website (Amazon.com, I think) had a feature on songs we remember (in connection with a book they were featuring) and most of the people who wrote in to tell about the impact of a certain song were affected by the personal emotional history the song had on them. The "songs of our youth" affect.

So we remember, and want to recapture, the feelings we got when we heard "that song when," whether the "when" is a time in our lives or a particular performance of the song. If I could only discover what there is about these feelings, and write songs that capture that essence and dispense it to the audience, I could write "instant classics" and retire.

Instead, I keep trying to at least make 'em rhyme and scan.

See ya 'round!


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: kiwi@unagi.cybernothing.org
Date: 25 Jun 97 - 02:16 PM

Since I collect nearly all music that I come in contact with (you have no idea how many albums I've copied when I borrowed them from the local library!), but there are quite a few that I would recommend not ditching. In order to conserve space, however, I'll just go through the ones that come to mind in, oh, 30 seconds. *grin* The rest can be found on the Music-gasm Mix that I'm going to put together, if anybody really wants a copy.

Mhaire Bruinneal : Clannad O'Carolan's Farewell To Music There's Whiskey In the Jar The Chandler Shop Skye Boat Song (the version from _Celtic Odyssey_) Cruiscin Lan : Makem and Clancy Gather Up the Pots The Ramblin' Rover : Silly Wizard Fionnguala : The Bothy Band The Gardener


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Paul Kennedy
Date: 26 Jun 97 - 01:22 PM

Some of my favorite songs are Stan Rogers 'Fogarty's Cove' and 'Forty Five Years', Evans and Doherty's version of 'Wild Mountain Thyme', Dennis Ryan's version of 'Dark Island', John McDermott's 'Green Fields of France', Paddy Reilly's 'Farewell to Nova Scotia', well there is a few. Mind you I don't find anyone else does quite as good a job on these songs as those I listed.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Buzz Keiper (buzz@usi.com)
Date: 06 Jul 97 - 02:22 AM

many factors apply here.. we can only make our own decisions, and the context and performers affect the response... one of the few disagreements (musical) my wife and I have is over Steeleye Span and Maddy Prior... I think she, and they, are tremendous, my wife can't stand them.... Gordon Lightfoot has done very little that I could tire of, but if I never again hear the "elevator music" version of "If You Could Read My Mind" it will be a billion times too often! Yecchhh!!!!


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: BK
Date: 06 Jul 97 - 10:20 AM

you ditch yours, i"ll ditch mine - fine so far, but who ditches what from a data base???? I hope damn little is ditched - not really comfortable w/any ditching. I don't think of "peggy sue" as a folk song - but........ I thinlk Schooner Fair's defn of folk songs as ..."Those song that people sing" about covers it.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Kiwi
Date: 06 Jul 97 - 01:43 PM

Buzz, do you argue over the group Steeleye Span in general, or some of their songs in particular? I haven't listened to enough of their stuff recently to make a decision, and I was fool enough to give back my friend's SS tape before copying it, but there are a few songs of theirs that I really love.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Rick
Date: 07 Jul 97 - 03:24 AM

AndyG - from 4th June

Just returned from Rudolstadt Folk Festival where the Ashley "I founded Fairport Convention, Steeleye Span and Albion Band" Hutchins Dance Band played a full rendition of Tam Lin - it lives on (and on and on and ... :-)

BTW, your web site appears to be defunct - have you graduated?


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Laoise, Belfast
Date: 07 Jul 97 - 10:09 AM

Well, I might as well get in on this thread as well. I always find that when I first hear a good song I'll listen to it over and over and will gradually listen less, but I will rarely listen to a song so often that I would get sick of it. I think its because there are so many good songs.

Certain good songs get played over and over and you do get sick of them. Danny Boy and Only our Rivers Run Free are two songs which have been done too much. If you change the style of singing and do it a little bit differently, you can really bring life into it.

I agree with DG that its usually the singers that do it. I loved the song "She moved through the Fair" until an advert for Bushmills Whiskey used it in their adverts with seriously unmelodious and crabby voices. The song is ruined! Likewise the DoE used the beautiful Barbara Striesand song "You don't send me flowers anymore" in a drink-drive public safety commercial and there's another song ruined.

There are many songs that I would come back to again and again, but I think the ones that I would vote for on "Not to Ditch" would be Dougie McLean's "Green grow the Rashes-O", Silly Wizard's "If I were a Blackbird" and Billie Holliday's "God Bless the Child".

Slan

Laoise.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Buzz
Date: 07 Jul 97 - 11:08 PM

Kiwi -

SS in general and Maddy Prior in particular - I don't fully get it, but taste, even in a couple who are close, is a very individual thing. If you liked what you heard, I can say that although I'm not ecstatic about every song they recorded, I do really like most of their work; Ive also noticed some of their stuff is now out in CD. If you can get "Below The Salt" I'd highly reccomend as a good example of their work (Really, I've not heard much from them that I didn't appreciate - some of it I'm extremely fond of)


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: chet
Date: 08 Jul 97 - 07:16 PM

Doc Watson is not dead. Don't even say such a thing.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Kiwi
Date: 08 Jul 97 - 08:45 PM

Buzz, well, as I said, I've only heard a few songs of theirs, mostly on Celtic mixes given to me by friends, but what I've heard, I've liked. But then again, given my eclectic musical tastes, it doesn't surprise me much. What else do you like to listen to? A couple of my favorites are Dougie McLean, Loreena McKennitt, Clannad, Altan, and the Celtic collections - Celtic Odyssey, Celtic Legacy, Celtic Twilight, etc. Oh, and clan na gael, whose albums I just got hold of this past Saturday. God, I love working in a little Irish store with loads of CDs to play on the stereo system!


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Buzz@usi.com
Date: 09 Jul 97 - 12:01 AM

Kiwi: where to start?? Beside some of those you've mentioned; lots of the Furies, some with Davie Arthur (who is now said to have his own group, doing scottish music) for ex, the "Sweet Sixteen" albumn... Finbar's gravelly voice and whistle and pipe are great - they have my favorite renditions of some of Bogle's songs esp Green Fields of France, and Leavin' of Nancy - said to be about Bogle leaving his mother - really grab me. Also they recorded "the old man" describing their dad, who taught them (and Davey Arthur) to sing and play... We've also been blown away by recent albumns of Danny Doyle - we used to see him and chat in DC; check out his versions of "Christmas in the Trenches," "Kilkelly Island," "the Moon on Clancey's Wings," just to name a few from his more recent solo albumns He not only has a beautiful tenor voice, but crafts his renditions with elegant detail like a musical Michealangelo We also reaslly like his duo albumn with his sister, who is sort of a comedic singer in Australia. We are nuts about Anne Hills, Christine Lavin, Priscilla Herdman (WOW!) and God knows how many more...I could type all night - esp as slowly & poorly as I type. ya gotta understand that - as my wife says - I'm a romantic at heart, and I love songs and singers that grab my emotions -how celtic!! cheers for now


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Kiwi
Date: 09 Jul 97 - 11:07 AM

Well, it looks as though I have a lot of music to go looking for now. :) I tend to look for artists and albums that come pre-recommended by another fan.. when I'm not bootlegging the music directly from them! :) Hm.. so maybe _that's_ why I'm so attracted to Celtic music - I'm a romantic at heart (but a bit cynical).. so I like the songs that appeal to my emotions. And every now and then, I like a happy ending.. But I'm especially a sucker for laments like "Back Home In Derry", written by Bobby Sands, and the sweet flute or violin pieces that wistfully, gently, sweetly rip out your heart and drop it on the floor - like "If Every You Were Mine" by Natalie MacMaster.


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Buzz
Date: 10 Jul 97 - 12:25 AM

Kiwi: I think they need to fix this... the last few screens have lines thru all the text!! It's a bit of a pain... I guess I've got a lot of songs I not only wouldn't ditch, but want to cherish forever... Check out "the Rose of Saigon" as sung by Danny Doyle on "under a Connemara Moon" REGO; CDR-3309, "Emigrant Eyes" on CD of same name (also has "The Moon On Clancey's Wings") with his sister, Geraldine REGO; CDR-3018, and James Keelaghan's beautifully written heart-breaker "Jenny Brice" on his CD "Timelines" (- along with others I'm very fond of like "refugee," "lost," "fires of Calais") DIRTY LINEN CDL-103

Cheers


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Bert Hansell
Date: 10 Jul 97 - 08:42 AM


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Bert Hansell
Date: 10 Jul 97 - 08:46 AM

Well Let's try to turn off the strike out.

That should do it
Now for a song NOT to ditch

This one is not really a folk song but I think it shouldn't die. It's a country song that came out in the early Eighties called "Bestest Friend"
It's one of my favourite love songs which has a message which cuts right through its corny country style.

Bert


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Subject: RE: Folk Songs NOT to Ditch
From: Kiwi
Date: 10 Jul 97 - 10:22 AM

Buzz, thanks for the recommendations . Oh boy, all the recommendations the people have given me for music on here will keep me searching for years to come! :) Bert - also in the line of songs to cherish, IMHO, are "Back Home In Derry", "Maire Bruinneal", "IF I Were a Blackbird", "Over the Hills", "Stone and Dove"... er, nevermind, I could end up filling pages at a time just listing my "cherishables". :)


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