Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience

Subject: Rights of Conscience
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Feb 00 - 08:11 PM

Looking for words to this American Revolution period piece I have heard (tune only) on Barry Phillips (Gourd Music) 1992 tape, "The World Turned Upside Down." Have found Gourd website but not yet found words. Supposedly a Shaker hymn by Issachar Bates. Tune is a fife tune, "The President's March."

Local music store says song out of print. Believe I have searched 'Cat effectively.

Anyone know this one? If not I will purchase songbook from Gourd (if they did actually put the words in the book), and share this hauntingly beautiful tune with you all. I have figgered out the chords and am just curious what are words or will write my own.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Feb 00 - 08:29 PM

I remember in a Burl Ives Songbook there was a set of words to "The World turned upside down", supposed to be the tune the British played somewhere when they surrendered to the Americans.

It's one of these songs about mice chasing cats, and cheese chasing mice or something, I seem to remember.

No, I've just found the book, which I haven't looked at in years. Published in '53

If buttercups buzzed after the bee,
if boats were on land, churches on sea,
if ponies rode men and if grass ate the cows,
and cats should be chased into holes by the mouse,
if the mamas sold their babies
to the gypsies for half-a-crown,
if summer were spring,
and the other way round,
then all the world would be upside down.

And it was Yorktown where the British surrendered. You likely know that already.

Mind, whether it's the same tune, I don't know. (There's at least one other song with the same title, Leon Rosselson's modern song about the Digggers, and there may well be other older ones.)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Feb 00 - 08:46 PM

I think that is the title song on the tape, which I am glad to have, but now I can't find the tape to re-hear the tune. The one I'm actually looking for on that album is Rights of Conscience.

But TWTUD is interesting too, and agrees with your recollection. The liner notes for TWTUD are:

"Legend has it that as Cornwallis' troops surrendered their arm sat Yorktown in 1781, they played a march popularly known as TWTUD. The tune was first published in 1643 in the British Isles as "When the King Enjoys His Own Again"-- a favorite among anti-Cromwell Royalists who were the revolutionaries of their day. The melody soon crossed the Atlantic under several titles, including Derry Down, The Old Women Taught Wisodm, and TWTUD. Though scholars and historians continue to debate among themselves, no one can now confirm or refute the time-honored accounts of the redcoats actually playing the tune at the battlefield ceremony. In any event, to the once-proud army of the mightiest empire in Europe, it certainly must have seemed as if the world had turned upside down. This version is taken from Chappell's Popular Music of the Old Times."

Interesting stuff, these 'Catters know...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Feb 00 - 08:49 PM

READ ME:

post here not other thread same name, duplicate, SORRY!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 May 01 - 09:40 PM

Still looking for this one.

RIGHTS OF CONSCIENCE.

Words.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 May 01 - 12:37 AM

AS far as I know, here are at least three tunes named World Turned Upside Down. One of them was played when Cornwallis' troops disembarked from New York Harbor. A less known fact is that General Washington was waiting with the body of his troops up at what is now Union Square, waiting for the lowering of the British flag at the Battery to signal the departure of the British. Unfortunately, a british soldier had climbed the flagpole, nailed the flag to the top of the pole, and greased the pole on the way down. Which left George waiting patiently for w whole lot of hours. There's a statue in Union Square commemorating this.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 May 01 - 01:02 AM

Thanks Dick. I believe there are a number of threads touching on The World Turned Upside Down-- it's fascinating stuff.

The song I am looking for is Rights of Conscience, which just happens to be on the tape named TWTUD.

Last I heard, the songbook I had hoped to order (TWTUD, which includes RoC) had gone out of print. So I am hoping some Mudcatter bought it while it was IN print, or knows another source for Rights of Conscience.

Come on, Mudcatters! I know you can do this!

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: Burke
Date: 10 May 01 - 11:15 AM

I did a search in OCLC WorldCat. It's on the internet, but you probably have to try your local library to get to it, because it's not free. I searched Shaker and Conscience in Subject/Title/Contents & found 2 recordings. One is on an LP from Musical Heritage Society called Harp of Joy, 1979.

The 2nd has me completely thrown: Boston Camerata. The golden harvest: more Shaker chants and spirituals = Weitere Gesänge und Spirituals der Shaker. Hamburg : Pure Classics, 2000. 10 libraries say they have it, but it's not on the Boston Camerata web page, it's not in Schwann, and either I can't search the German sites properly (likely), or it's not listed on German CD sites either. I'd watch for future release in the US.

You might also try getting in touch with Phillips through Gourd Music http://www.gourd.com/

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: IanC
Date: 10 May 01 - 12:43 PM

Hi!

This is all I have - half of which is already from the TWTUD sleeve notes - but something may be of some use, so I've included it here.

Rights of Conscience was written by the distinguished Shaker Issachar Bates, who served as a fifer boy at the battle of Bunker Hill. Years later, he took the melody of a fife tune called The Presidents March for the Shaker hymn Rights of Conscience in which he expressed his and his pacifist brethren's misgivings about serving in the American - or any - army. The Shakers did fight for freedom from the English crown, but declined all soldiers' pensions offered by the American government and never again served in the military.

"Rights of Conscience" was not written by Issachar Bates at New Lebanon, New York, as sometimes claimed. He wrote it in Ohio in 1810. His tune is freely based on "The President's March" written in honor of George Washington, and later used for the patriotic song: "Hail, Columbia!" Issachar Bates no doubt knew both of these songs before he joined the Shakers in 1807.

Sorry I can't do any better!
Cheers!, Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 May 01 - 12:51 PM

Hmmm... so if I had "Hail, Columbia" I could sing those words?

Hmmmm.... thanks IanC.

I'll go look.

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: IanC
Date: 10 May 01 - 12:56 PM

That's easy!

Here:

Hail Columbia!

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: Lyr Add: RIGHTS OF CONSCIENCE
From: MMario
Date: 10 May 01 - 01:09 PM

RIGHTS OF CONSCIENCE
From Millennial Praises - 1813

RIGHTS of conscience in these days,
Now demand our solemn praise;
Here we see what God has done,
By his servant Washington,
Who with wisdom was endow'd
By an angel, through the cloud,
And led forth, in Wisdom's plan,
To secure the rights of man.

2
"Arm yourselves, unsheath the sword!
(Cries this servant of the Lord,)
Rights of freedom we'll maintain,
And our independence gain."
Fleets and armies he withstood,
In the strength of Jehu's God;
Proud Cornwallis and Burgoyne,
With their armies soon resign.

3
Thus the valiant conqu'ror stood
To defend his country's good,
Till a treaty he confirms,
Settling peace on his own terms.
Having clos'd these warlike scenes,
Chosen men he then convenes;
These a constitution plann'd,
To protect this ransom'd land.

4
Prince of all the host he stands,
Keeps the helm in his own hands,
Till a law stands to declare,
Bind the conscience if you dare!
Then he spreads the eagle's wings
(Signs of freedom) on all things,
Form'd an order to his mind,
Blest the earth and then resign'd.

5
When by precept he had shown
What kind heaven had made known,
By example aids the cause,
Forms his own domestic laws,
Breaks the yoke at his own door,
Clothes the naked, feed the poor,
Bondage from his house he hurl'd,
Freed his slaves and left the world.

6
Cyrus-like, was Washington
Call'd to do what he has done;
We his noble acts record,
Tho' he did not know the Lord:
As a prudent man of blood,
He the hosts of earth withstood;
Nature's rights he did restore,
God from him requir'd no more.

7
Now we'll swell the joyful news,
With the glory that ensues;
God, thro' Christ, did then begin
To attack the man of sin;
By a woman struck the blow,
Broke the battle and the bow,
And in flaming fire reveal'd
What the beast had long conceal'd.

8
Carnal swords are laid aside,
Every fleshly lust deny'd;
Each one seeks his neighbour's goods,
No more shed each other's blood.
Let the eyes of priests and kings
View the eagle's spreading wings;
These are to the woman given,
Guard the place where she is driven.

9
Now the dragon's host may rage,
His black bands of priests engage;
While of freedom still he raves,
All his subjects are his slaves;
As his messengers, they rise,
Forge and spread his sland'rous lies,
Spew at us his foaming flood;
Yet they dare not spill our blood.

10
Mighty Christians, stout and bold!
Full of lust as you can hold,
Fighting for religious rights!
God has notic'd all such fights:
Still your souls are not releas'd,
Bound by sin and wicked priests;
Tho' your country has been sav'd,
You in bondage are enslav'd.

11
With all this you're not content,
Still on bondage you are bent,
Binding the poor negro too,
He must be a slave to you!
Yet of Washington you boast,
Spread his fame thro' every coast,
Bury him with great ado,
Precepts and examples too!

12
Did you think in seventy five,
When the states were all alive,
When they did for freedom sue,
God was deaf and blind like you?
You were fighting on one side,
To build up your lust and pride;
God was bringing a plan,
To defeat the pride of man.

13
Liberty is but a sound,
If the conscience still is bound;
Could you but her reigns control,
You would creed-bind every soul.
You, and when we say 'tis you,
We've no respect to Greek or Jew;
But boldly tell you what we mean,
Your vile Church that lives in sin.

14
Now we mean to let you know,
We've not treated freedom so;
Since God's Kingdom has come in,
We find freedom from all sin.
O, ye priest-bound souls, come out!
Help us raise the living shout;
Never heed your former stuff,
You have prov'd it long enough.

15
See the woman's seed advance,
Glor'ous in Emmanuel's dance!
At this strange victor'ous play,
Earth and heavens flee away:
Swift as light'ning see them move,
Labouring in unfeigned love:
God, thro' Mother we adore,
Hate the flesh and sin no more.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 May 01 - 01:46 PM

Swooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnn........

Two fer one!

Sing it all day long!

Mmario, where'd ya find yours? Got dots?

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: MMario
Date: 10 May 01 - 02:05 PM

no dots - I stopped looking as soon as I found the lyrics.

so - dots for The President's March; Hail, Columbia!; or Rights of Conscience...

input accepted...

searching...searching...searching...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: MMario
Date: 10 May 01 - 02:10 PM

dots and lyrics for "Hail Columbia" are right here

url=http://biblestudy.churches.net/CCEL/S/SOUTHERN/SHARM/SHARM/HYMN/THAILCOL.HTM

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 May 01 - 02:23 PM

Yes... but the dots for RoC are going to be different if you find them. A lot.

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: MMario
Date: 10 May 01 - 02:32 PM

shouldn't be too different if they are both based on the same fife tune.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 May 01 - 02:35 PM

You'll see!

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: Burke
Date: 11 May 01 - 02:14 PM

That version will not work for sure, it cuts off in the middle of a line. I don't know RoC, but can at least check the original of The Southern Harmony for the 2nd page. The meter's are not the same. RoC is 7's D. Hail Columbia is P.M. (peculiar meter)

Subject: Lyr Add: HAIL, COLUMBIA!
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 May 02 - 11:50 PM

Copied from http://www.pasleybrothers.com/jefferson/Hail_Columbia.htm

HAIL, COLUMBIA!
(Joseph Hopkinson, 1798)

1.
Hail, Columbia! happy land!
Hail, ye heroes, heaven born band!
Who fought and bled in freedom's cause,
Who fought and bled in freedom's cause.
And when the storm of war is gone,
Enjoy the peace your valor won;
Let independence be your boast,
Ever mindful what it cost;
Ever grateful for the prize,
Let its altar reach the skies.

CHO: Firm, united, let us be,
Rallying round our liberty.
As a band of brothers joined,
Peace and safety we shall find.

2.
Immortal Patriots rise once more,
Defend your rights -- defend your shore
Let no rude foe with impious hand
Let no rude foe with impious hand
Invade the shrine where sacred lies
Of toil and blood the well-earn'd prize
While offering peace sincere and just
In heaven we place a manly trust
That truth and justice will prevail
And every scheme of bondage fail. CHO.

3.
Sound, sound the trump of fame
Let Washington's great name
Ring thro' the world with loud applause
Ring thro' the world with loud applause
Let every clime to Freedom dear
Listen with a joyful ear --
With equal skill the godlike pow'r
He governs in the fearful hour
Of horrid war or guides with ease
The happier times of honest peace – CHO.

4.
Behold the chief who now commands
Once more to serve his Country stands
The rock on which the storm will beat
The rock on which the storm will beat
But arm'd in virtue firm and true
His hopes are fixed on heaven and you --
When hope was sinking in dismay
When glooms obscured Columbia's day
His steady mind from changes free
Resolved on Death or Liberty – CHO.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rights of Conscience
From: michaelr
Date: 02 May 02 - 12:12 AM

Good grief -- "Hail Columbia" is a bit thick on the nationalist sentiments, but I can handle it. BUT that abomination posted above called "Rights of Conscience" makes me gag!

Why would anyone want to sing that swill?

Respectfully,
Michael