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Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)

DigiTrad:
DANCING AT WHITSUN
FORLORN LOVER
I AINSE LOVED A LASS
I COURTED A WEE GIRL
I LOVED A LAD
IT'S ONLY MY AULD SHEEN (FALSE BRIDE)
LAMBS ON THE GREEN HILLS
THE FALSE BRIDE
THREE WEEKS BEFORE EASTER
WEEK BEFORE EASTER 2


Related threads:
Lyr Req: 'How many ships sail in the forest?' (42)
(origins) Origin: I Loved a Lad (15)
Ladies dancing at Whitsun (14)
Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun (59)
Chord Req: Lambs in the Greenfield (Emmylou Harris (17)


In Mudcat MIDIs:
The False Bride (Dublin City??)


Alan of Australia 12 Feb 00 - 08:50 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 12 Feb 00 - 11:04 PM
Susan of DT 13 Feb 00 - 11:13 AM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Jul 00 - 11:48 PM
Abby Sale 09 Apr 01 - 02:17 PM
Susan of DT 09 Apr 01 - 08:18 PM
Jon Freeman 09 Apr 01 - 08:25 PM
Abby Sale 09 Apr 01 - 09:17 PM
GUEST,DA COOL GUY 22 Jan 21 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,John Bowden (not a typo!) 22 Jan 21 - 11:47 AM
Steve Gardham 22 Jan 21 - 02:49 PM
JHW 22 Jan 21 - 03:51 PM
Steve Gardham 22 Jan 21 - 04:40 PM
GUEST,John Bowden (not a typo!) 22 Jan 21 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,John Bowden (not a typo!) 22 Jan 21 - 05:08 PM
JHW 23 Jan 21 - 05:55 AM
Reinhard 23 Jan 21 - 07:27 AM
Steve Gardham 23 Jan 21 - 08:28 AM
Reinhard 23 Jan 21 - 10:20 AM
Steve Gardham 23 Jan 21 - 01:04 PM
Steve Gardham 23 Jan 21 - 02:01 PM
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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: THE FALSE BRIDE ^^
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 12 Feb 00 - 08:50 PM

G'day,
From the Penguin Book Of English Folk Songs, Ed Pellow's rendition of the tune of The False Bride can be found here.

THE FALSE BRIDE
Sung by Lucy White, Hambridge, Somerset (C.J.S. 1904)

Oh, when that I saw my love in the church stand,
With the ring on her finger and the glove in her hand,
I jumped in betwixt them and kissed the false bride,
Saying: 'Adieu to false loves for ever.'

Oh, when that I saw my love out the church go,
With the bridesmen and bridesmaids they made a fine show,
Then I followed after with my heart full of woe,
For I was the man that ought to had her.

Oh, when that I saw my love sat down to meat,
I sat myself by her but no thing could eat.
I thought her sweet company better than wine,
Although she was tied to some other.

Go dig me a grave both long, wide, and deep,
And strew it all over with flowers so sweet,
That I may lay down there and take my long sleep,
And that's the best way to forget her.

Related songs in the DT:
FORLORN LOVER
WEEK BEFORE EASTER 2
THE FALSE BRIDE

Previous song: Droylsden Wakes.
Next Song: Fare Thee Well My Dearest Dear.

Penguin Index provided by Joe Offer

Cheers,
Alan ^^


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 12 Feb 00 - 11:04 PM

See ZN2765 in the broadside ballad index on my website for 17th and 18th century copies.


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride
From: Susan of DT
Date: 13 Feb 00 - 11:13 AM

Since this is one of my favorite songs, there are 9 versions in the Digital Tradition, plus 4 other songs that use one or another of the main tunes. Search for flsebrd* (their filename) to see all of them.


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jul 00 - 11:48 PM

One of my favourites, too.  Apologies for any duplications or omissions in the following:

From the notes to the Penguin Book (1959):

"This tender melancholy song has remained long in the affection of country singers.  Its age is uncertain.  A version of the ballad was published in Newcastle late in the 17th century, but it may not have been new then.  It is still to be found among folk singers in the South of England.  Some call it The Week Before Easter, and sing the first verse:

The week before Easter, the morn bright and clear,
The sun it shone brightly, and keen blowed the air,
I went up in the forest for to gather fine flowers,
But the forest won't yield me no roses.

Mrs. White's text has been slightly amended with lines from two other Somerset versions collected by Cecil Sharp in 1904 (FSJ, 12-13).  Other versions have been printed from Devon, in Songs of the West (Baring Gould and others, 1905) and Sussex (FSJ vol. I, p.23)"  -R.V.W/A.L.L.

This version was collected by Cecil Sharp, from Lucy White of Hambridge, Somerset, in 1904, and was first published in the Folk Song Journal, vol. II, p.14

@courting@death @plant @infidelity @marriage

Versions on the DT:

Week Before Easter
Three Weeks Before Easter
The False Bride
It's Only My Auld Sheen (False Bride)
Forlorn Lover
I Loved a Lad
I Ainse Loved a Lass
I Courted a Wee Girl
Lambs on the Green Hills

In the Forum:

I Once Loved a Lass

There is also an entry at the Traditional Ballad Index: The False Bride (The Week Before Easter; I Once Loved a Lass)

There are several broadside versions (some duplicated) at  Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads.  The most useful are:

Forlorn Lover  Coles, F. (London); Vere, T. (London); Wright, J. (London) Date: between 1663 and 1674
Forlorn Lover  (printer and date unknown)
False Hearted Lover   W. Pratt, Printer, 82, Digbeth, Birmingham   Date: c.1850

These last are all large images.

See also  Dancing at Whitsun, an evocative song written to the best-known Week Before Easter tune by Austin John Marshall in the late 1960s for Shirley Collins, and first recorded on her album Anthems In Eden (1969).Malcolm
Traditional Ballad Index Entry:

False Bride, The (The Week Before Easter; I Once Loved a Lass)

DESCRIPTION: The singer reports that the woman he once loved is going to be wed to another. He mopes around in various ways -- e.g. looking for flowers out of season. His friends fail to lift his spirits. He declares his intent to die in hopes of forgetting her
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1675 (broadside); also printed in the reign of James II (1685-1688)
KEYWORDS: love infidelity courting marriage death wedding lyric
FOUND IN: Britain(Scotland(Aber),England(South,Lond)) Ireland Canada(Newf) Australia
REFERENCES (6 citations):
Meredith/Anderson, pp. 187-188, "I Think by This Time He's Forgot Her" (1 text, 1 tune)
Kennedy 152, "The False Bride" (1 text, 1 tune)
Ord, p. 175, "It Wasna My Fortune to Get Her" (1 text)
Vaughan Williams/Lloyd, p. 37, "The False Bride" (1 text, 1 tune)
BBI, ZN2765, "A week before Easter"; ZN2766, "The week before Easter"
DT 848, FLSEBRDE FLSEBRD2* FLSEBRD3* FLSEBRD4 FLSEBRD5* FLSEBRD6* FLSEBRD7* FLSEBRD8

Roud #154
RECORDINGS:
Bob Copper, "The False Bride" (on FSB1)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "My Bonny Brown Jane"
cf. "If I Were a Fisher" (floating verses)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
The Forlorn Lover
I Ainse Loved a Lass
I Loved a Lass
Lambs on the Green Hills
The Week Before Easter
Three Weeks Before Easter
File: K152

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2004 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


Copy-pasted from the link cited above.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride
From: Abby Sale
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 02:17 PM

Happily, yesterday fell on a Sunday so I was able to sing "A Week Before Easter" (as learned from Dransfield) on its proper day.  Even though it's in Greig, I think of it as the English version.   I've known what I think of as the Scottish version,  "I Ainse Loved a Lass" (MacColl, Cameron, etc.) many years as well.

There's a good bit of discussion (& so should be) on this song, "The False Bride."

In my limited mind, however, I can't hold the two tunes side by side long enough to reckon if there are enough similarities to call them the same tune.

It's a good song regardless & one of those worth singing, it seems, in any of its versions.  Just curious.


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride
From: Susan of DT
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 08:18 PM

Abby - the main two tunes I know are the Birmingham Sunday/ King Henry for I ainse Loved a Lass and the Dancing at Whitsun tune for False Bride relatives. Does that help any?


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 08:25 PM

Abby, just my inexpert view: I would consider them to be different tunes.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride
From: Abby Sale
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 09:17 PM

Sue, yes, those are the tunes but do you consider them varients of each other or completely separate?

Jon, thanks. You ain't likely less expert than I.


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: GUEST,DA COOL GUY
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 11:27 AM

wassup im da cool guy. im here lookin at this thread and im like yo this old like dang. quick question tho im br-br-br BREAKING IT DOWN for a school project. apparently this isnt a typicl ballard and im like wondering what makes it different from a traditional ballard like yo?


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: GUEST,John Bowden (not a typo!)
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 11:47 AM

I've just seen this thread - I recorded the Lucy White version, which the original post was about, for the Fellside LP "Selection from the Penguin Book of English Folk Songs" way back in 1985, and it's recently been put on youtube - me on vocal and anglo concertina, with Martin Carthy on guitar. Several internet sources credit it to Jon Boden (of Bellowhead fame), but it is me, honest! Jon would have been about 8 years old at the time! Enjoy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyHpjssxUiw


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 02:49 PM

DCG, for an untypical balla(r)d it sure is widespread and old. Dates back to at least about 1663 and is found all over the British Isles and in Canada. The format AAAB admittedly is not the commonest of formats but there are other examples. It comes from a fairly sophisticated 17th century broadside, but it has lasted well in oral tradition with a little help from print from time to time.


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: JHW
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 03:51 PM

Dylan's I once loved a girl/lass on another thread maybe pinched this overall melody.

(A retribution verse, which I will have sung).
Stop, Stop cries the groomsman
While I speak a word
Would you venture your life on the point of my sword
For courting too slowly you've lost this fair maid
So be gone for you'll never enjoy her.

I dare say someone will say where this originated.


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 04:40 PM

Dylan obviously based it on the trad ballad, but I don't recognise those specific lyrics. It might be in the original but I doubt it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: GUEST,John Bowden (not a typo!)
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:05 PM

JHW and Steve: The Dylan lyrics are from yet another version, "The Lambs on the Green Hills": there's a recording by The Johnstons here

John


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: GUEST,John Bowden (not a typo!)
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:08 PM

Sorry, wrong link!! Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI1N1lmqSJc


John


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: JHW
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 05:55 AM

Good reminder John Bowden. My 'extra' verse is in Lambs on the Green Hills in a book of Irish Street Ballads, Colm O'Lochlain. (all from memory)


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: Reinhard
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 07:27 AM

... which is also, slightly changed from the version in Irish Street Ballads, in the Digital Tradition: Lambs on the Green Hills


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 08:28 AM

I can confirm that in a study of about 70 versions of The False Bride
that stanza is unique to O'Lochlainn as collected from oral tradition in Dublin. Nor does it appear on any of the many broadsides.


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: Reinhard
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:20 AM

A similar answer from the bridegroom is in the Digital Tradition at The False Bride, from Gavin Greig:

But spoke the bridegroom, begone for a coward
You have ridden too long on the point of your sword
You have ridden too long in an unknown ford
So Begone, for you ne'er can enjoy her

Is this Greig/Duncan 6:1198? I don't have volumes 5 and 6, and so can't verify it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 01:04 PM

Well spotted, Reinhard. I had missed that. The stanza you post is indeed in most of the Scottish versions and I hadn't made the connection because they only have the 2nd line in common. But having said that the Irish stanza (and Dylan's) is obviously related. The Dublin version is somewhat garbled and almost certainly is a corruption of the Scottish.

Vol 6 of Greig-Duncan actually gives 21 versions albeit many just the tune or single verse.

The stanza only occurs in Scottish versions and is on none of the broadsides or in any of the English or Newfoundland versions.

I have another Irish version but I'm struggling to find it at the moment.


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Subject: RE: Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin)
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 02:01 PM

I've found the other Irish text. It's just a repeat of the O'Lochlainn text. It is actually similar to Duncan Williamson's text.


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