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Lyr Req: El Condor Pasa (in Spanish or Portuguese)

Related thread:
(origins) Origins: El Condor Pasa (11)


GUEST,TIM M VISTERIN BELGIUM EUROPE 21 Feb 00 - 10:36 AM
wysiwyg 21 Feb 00 - 10:40 AM
Wincing Devil 21 Feb 00 - 10:59 AM
Wincing Devil 21 Feb 00 - 11:00 AM
Crowhugger 21 Feb 00 - 11:06 AM
Wincing Devil 21 Feb 00 - 11:23 AM
Escamillo 21 Feb 00 - 01:34 PM
KickyC 21 Feb 00 - 09:27 PM
Escamillo 22 Feb 00 - 01:15 AM
Helen 23 Feb 00 - 09:00 PM
Escamillo 24 Feb 00 - 02:30 AM
katlaughing 24 Feb 00 - 06:01 AM
Mbo 24 Feb 00 - 08:12 AM
Amos 24 Feb 00 - 09:01 AM
grumblekidwheatfax 24 Feb 00 - 09:26 AM
Escamillo 24 Feb 00 - 01:18 PM
Amos 24 Feb 00 - 04:25 PM
Escamillo 25 Feb 00 - 12:27 AM
Amos 25 Feb 00 - 12:33 AM
Troll 25 Feb 00 - 12:35 AM
Amos 25 Feb 00 - 11:02 AM
Escamillo 25 Feb 00 - 10:38 PM
Amos 26 Feb 00 - 12:04 AM
Jim Lad 18 Feb 08 - 11:14 PM
Mysha 19 Feb 08 - 07:53 PM
Jim Lad 19 Feb 08 - 08:02 PM
Cool Beans 19 Feb 08 - 10:48 PM
Mysha 20 Feb 08 - 09:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Feb 08 - 10:21 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Feb 08 - 11:24 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Feb 08 - 11:33 PM
Mysha 21 Feb 08 - 08:42 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Feb 08 - 12:58 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Feb 08 - 02:06 PM
Mysha 22 Feb 08 - 08:13 PM
Jim Lad 22 Feb 08 - 08:17 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Feb 08 - 09:46 PM
Mysha 23 Feb 08 - 12:15 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Feb 08 - 03:07 PM
Mysha 23 Feb 08 - 06:01 PM
Jim Lad 23 Feb 08 - 07:39 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Feb 08 - 08:27 PM
Jim Lad 23 Feb 08 - 11:18 PM
Mysha 25 Feb 08 - 08:28 PM
Jim Lad 25 Feb 08 - 09:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Feb 08 - 10:46 PM
GUEST,george rici 15 Jan 14 - 09:41 AM
GUEST 12 Feb 16 - 12:33 PM
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Subject: EL CONDOR PASA
From: GUEST,TIM M VISTERIN BELGIUM EUROPE
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 10:36 AM

Hey Gents,

Since we believe this song originally was a traditional or public domain we are trying to find Spanish and/or Cuban and/or Portuguese lyrics. No translation of the Simon/Garfunkel English lyrics.

Would it be possible to help us?

Thankful regards,

Tim


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 10:40 AM

You mean, you don't want,

I'd rather have the Mudcat than the snail...

Oh well.


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 10:59 AM


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 11:00 AM

OOPS: (Apologies for Netscrape Screwup)!

I came across this at: http://www.cadvision.com/Home_Pages/accounts/ospinas/Cancione.htm

In Español:

El amor como un cóndor bajará,
mi corazón golpeará,
después se irá...
La luna en el desierto brillará
y tú vendrás solamente un beso me dejarás.
Quién sabe mañana donde irás
qué harás, me pensarás?
Yo sé que nunca volverás
mas pienso que no viviré.
Cómo podré?
La angustia y el dolor me dejarás
mi corazón sufrirá y morirá.
El amor como un cóndor volará,
partirá, y así nunca más regresará.
Yo sé que nunca...



The love as a cóndor lowers,
my heart will strike,
later one will go away...
The moon in the desert will shine
and you will come only a kiss you will leave me.
Who knows tomorrow where you will go
what you will do, you will think to me?
I know that you will never return
but I think that I will not live.
How I will be able?
The anguish and the pain you will leave me
my heart will suffer and die.
The love as a cóndor flies,
it will start off, and thus never it will return more.
I know that never...

Wincing_Devil
*:*:*:*:My cat walks all over me:*:*:*:*


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Crowhugger
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 11:06 AM

"Gents"
???
I've seen more than a little bit of musical wisdom from the women of this kind cafe.


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 11:23 AM

Gents: Short for Gentlepersons, a genderless title, prevalent on the other side of the pond.


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Escamillo
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 01:34 PM

The original lyrics in Spanish looks different. Give me a day to investigate in local sources (Buenos Aires).
Un abrazo - Andrés


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: KickyC
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 09:27 PM

I'm not real sure, but I think the origin of the song is more one of Andean Indian (Peru of Bolivia) and the original lyrics, if there are any, might not be in Spanish.

KickyC


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Escamillo
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 01:15 AM

Yes Tim, Kicky, this is a 19th century song with a QUECHUA language lyrics. I've only found the original and its literal translation into Spanish and English, but those texts are not "singable". Instead there is a text from Simon and Garfunkel which sounds to me very childish, as the other Spanish text from Cadvision.com.
Doesn't it look as an opportunity for you poets and song authors ? El Condor Pasa deserves an English lyrics that respects its nature.
The site is www.circle-of-light.com/El_Condor_Pasa
The lyrics are the following:

EL CONDOR PASA (Quechua)
Yau kuntur llaqtay orgopy tiyaq
Maymantam gawamuhuakchianqui, kuntur kuntur
Apayllahuay llaqtanchikman, wasinchikman chay chiri orgupy,

Kutiytam munany kuntur kuntur.

fuga. Kuzco llaqtapyn plazachallampyn suyaykamullaway,
Machupicchupy Huaynapicchupy purikunanchiqpaq.

EL CONDOR PASA, (Español)
Oh majestuoso Cóndor de los andes, llevame, a mi hogar, en los Andes,
Oh Cóndor. Quiero volver a mi tierra querida y vivir con mis hermanos Incas, que es lo que más añoro oh Cóndor.

fuga. Espérame en Cuzco, en la plaza principal,
para que vayamos a pasearnos a Machupicchu y Huayna-picchu.


English translation:
The Majestic Bird passes overhead
Oh mighty condor owner of the skies, take me home, up into the Andes
Oh mighty condor.
I want go back to my native place to be with my Inca brothers,
that's what I miss the most, Oh mighty Condor.

fuga. Wait for me in Cusco, in the main plaza,
so we can take a walk in Machupicchu and Huayna-picchu.

Hope this helps - Andrés


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Helen
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 09:00 PM

You're right, Andrés, those words do need to be made into a song - much, much better than the Simon/Garfunkle version. AMudcat challenge, folks. Who will be the first to take it up??

Helen


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Escamillo
Date: 24 Feb 00 - 02:30 AM

I'm sending a personal message to Amos and Mbo (I don't mean they are the best, only that they look predisposed for these challenges) :))
Un abrazo - Andrés


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Feb 00 - 06:01 AM

IMO: It is helpful, sometimes, to remember that someone posting from another country may 1) know English as a second language and therefore should not be judged too quickly or harshly on their use of it, 2) first impressions are important. Think about how your response about another language or to a person whose primary language is not English, may make that person feel, please.

When someone posts here for the first time it is good to give them the benefit of the doubt and greet them with kindness and not somewhat terse comments.

Thanks, kat


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Mbo
Date: 24 Feb 00 - 08:12 AM

YES!!!!

I got to here this song in the Quechua language in my Ethnomusicology class last semester. As some of you may remember the charango fiasco--I fell in love with the Andean folk music. Dr. Rey told us that Simon & Garfunkel had done an English version of it...I had never heard of it, but the Quechua original RULED!! I'd sure like to hear it again...

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Amos
Date: 24 Feb 00 - 09:01 AM

Mbo,

Take a pasa at El Condor from the base of your ethnomusicology enlightenment at see if it flies. I can't get to it today...too much stuff (I think) on my plate. An intersting challenge, makes me wish I spoke a little Quchua...

Un abrazo,

A


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: grumblekidwheatfax
Date: 24 Feb 00 - 09:26 AM

hi, my brother writes poetry, he works in a bank usually, i asked him if he could write words to taht simon ang garfunkel song and i showed him a copy of that poem somebody posted up here, and he gave to me this. personally i don't think it;'s terribly good, but all the same, i thught i'd try and embarass him! anyhow, here it is -reg

i walk my condor feet along the sand kicking stones counting stones on my own

the sky on top of all the broken ground is shakin ghands the river bands my shaking hands

i wish my thumbs were bones as old as wings i'd fly like birds i'd see like birds the bones of seas

o condor carry me up to the night to fill the sky flyign over stars flyign over night

i see my country through the keys of feather spans taht bury moons unlock the chains beneath my land the land is green the land has died the land is white

i saw your wings cut ice up in the sky behind the sun not everyone has seen the sun

i see your wings cut rain up like a wood i meet my freind his eyes have changed his voice has changed


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Escamillo
Date: 24 Feb 00 - 01:18 PM

I find it very nice, Grumblekid ! Let's see what other Mudcatters say, and write. I'm happy you all responded.
Please note that the authors are not Simon&Garfunkel (they only put a totally unrelated lyrics to it), but a traditional Peruvian song, so I think the door is open for any non-quechua speaking authors.
Un abrazo - Andrés


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Amos
Date: 24 Feb 00 - 04:25 PM

This is quickly done, but offered for whatever it may be worth as a truduccion of the feel of the Spanish version. I wish I spoke Quechua!

A



The Condor Passing

The condor passes, high above my bed...
Take me home!  Oh, take me home!

I would that I could pass there in his stead.
Take me over! To my home!

I'd fly, up where the Andes turn,
To my home! To my home!

To Incan lands and friends I would return!
Where I yearn
To return....

(fuga) In Cuzco, wait for me, where I will look for you
            And we will sleep again in Huayna-picchu
            Take me home.  Oh, take me home..


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Escamillo
Date: 25 Feb 00 - 12:27 AM

Beautiful, Amos ! Reflects the feeling of the lonesome inca.
I don't forget that the original request was for a Spanish or Portuguese lyrics, but I'm still investigating and could not find a Spanish version poetically appropiate for singing, that fits the original nature of the song. Will keep trying, Tim M.! Un abrazo - Andrés


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Amos
Date: 25 Feb 00 - 12:33 AM

Bueno, maestro! Y Gracias.


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Troll
Date: 25 Feb 00 - 12:35 AM

God that's nice Amos. I'm better at the lighter stuff but I'd love to be able to write like that.It isn't good for me to get too introspective right now.Personal sh**

troll


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Amos
Date: 25 Feb 00 - 11:02 AM

Hey, Troll,

I know...we dance on cauldrons of boiling regrets and bent passions, and if the lid ever slipped we would fall in and simmer to death. Nothin' to do but keep on dancing.

You dance extremely fine, old pal.

A


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Escamillo
Date: 25 Feb 00 - 10:38 PM

(Shouldn't be MYSELF who contributes with a Spanish version ? - gulp! - Andrés)


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Amos
Date: 26 Feb 00 - 12:04 AM

Y porque no? Quien lo puede hacer mejor?


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Subject: RE: EL CONDOR PASA
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 11:14 PM

I can fix that!


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Mysha
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:53 PM

Hi,
It would seem it depends upon the number of (grace)notes played (and on the number of sylables in the names), but it would appear to be something like this:


Oh, mighty Condor, master of the skies
Take me along, to where I belong
Oh, mighty Condor.

I long to be back where the mountains rise
In Inca lands, to shake my brothers' hands
Oh mighty Condor.

Chorus
Be sure of it my brothers I'll come home,
to Cuzco, nave of the world,
Once more together brothers we will roam,
in Machupicchu and Huayna-picchu
(in Huayna-picchu).


Since the tunes appears to be longer than the (translated) words, I guess you'd repeat first three lines and chorus. Other than that, at the end of the each block a the "echoing" notes are left to the instruments, which should bring out that melancholy sound that made the song so popular.
                                                                Mysha (Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg)


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Jim Lad
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 08:02 PM

Well that's nice. I meant the first version though. There's a beautiful "Soon I'll be dead and then you'll be sorry" story in there.


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Cool Beans
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 10:48 PM

And it goes great with portabella mushroom sauce. No, wait. I thought you said condor pasta. Never mind.


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Subject: The Condor's Flight (RE: El Condor Pasa)
From: Mysha
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 09:01 PM

Ok, I'll add an English version to echo the Spanish (as well as I can read it):


THE CONDOR'S FLIGHT
(Lyrics - Mysha: Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg)
(Music - tradional)


(Oh) Love comes like a condor on the wing
My heart will fall, I'll heed its call
But it will deceive me

Love, like a desert moon, the light will bring
I'll feel the bliss, of your sweet kiss
But then you'll leave me.

Chorus:
Tomorrow who knows where you may have gone?
Where will you be? Will you miss me?
You won't be back, so how can I go on?
I long for you; what can I do?
I can't go on.

Without your love no more my heart will sing
It'll cry; it will die
It'll be forever still

For love, just like a condor, will take wing
And though I yearn, it won't return
I know it never will

(Optional: Repeat chorus)


The text is intended to echo the sentiments of the Spanish text, but is not a literal translation. There are many ways to play the song; a version close to the one Paul Simon used would probably fit well.

                                                             P.H.M.


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 10:21 PM

EL CONDOR PASA was composed by Daniel Alomía Robles in 1913 (but not registered until 1933), in Quechua AND Spanish, and based on a traditional Quechuan tune. Robles was a Peruvian folklorist and musician who was living in Bolivia at the time and studying Bolivian music. It was composed for a zarzuela by Julio Baudouin y Paz. Recorded by many groups, including the well-known and recorded Argentine Andean music group Los Incas.
Paul Simon heard Los Incas in France, and composed his own (silly) words, using the music of the recording by Los Incas.

Information at these sites:
http://ttibes.tribe.net/m/quechua/thread/2e6f5f3f-6cfe-469c-8ce5-9cb8ca7782a3
This site also has an almost word-by-word interpretation of the Quechua.

El condor pasa
This wikipedia article in Spanish is informative, with the Quechuan lyrics and a Spanish translation, and references.

http://www.philip-jacobs.de/runasimi/y-kuntur.htm
This excellent site not only has the story of the song, but the lyrics in Quechua, Spanish and English, a score for piano, and a score and lyrics after Daniel Alomia Robles.
Kuntur phawan

Note: The language of the Quechua is also known as Runasimipi.


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 11:24 PM

Sorry - corrected Wikipedia link-
El condor pasa

the unlinked reference begins http://tribes.

Google can provide many others. An extended score, copyright Robles and Milchberg, may be seen at sheetmusicplus.com and purchased from them.
Simon and Garfunkle cite Robles and Milchberg in their copyright.

Robles' middle name ends in 's'- Alomías. Some references leave off the 's'.

Armando Robles Godoy, in various publications, has compiled 696 folklore pieces, 146 compositions, and some 60-70 Quechuan poems, written or collected by his father.


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 11:33 PM

The address I got from google seems to be incorrect or closed. The following is directly from the Spanish Wikipedia site, and should work!
(The English edition only has a translated extract)

El condor pasa


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Mysha
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 08:42 PM

Him

As far as I can see none of those links tell us where the texts came from, except for the Paul Simon version.

Judging by the various translations of the national song, I made the wrong choice when picking English words, though. It's not an existing community the singer wants to return to; rather he longs for the time when the Inca's were rulers fo the lands.

"Rulers!" That's the word I couldn't think of in the first line:
"Ruler of the skies". Obviously there's room for improvement there. Still, I wonder where the tragic love song came from, and how it was sung, and whether my version above would fit well.

BFN,
                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 12:58 AM

These are the 1913 lyrics by the Huanuqueño composer Daniel Alomías Robles, which he composed in the Quechuan language as well as Castillian Spanish. They were incorporated in the zarzuela by Julio Baudouin y Paz, as noted above. The music, the arrangement originally by B. y P. and Robles, is based on an Andean tune, but is not wholly folk.

They were posted by Escamillo 22 Feb 00, above, but the arrangement of the text is somewhat confusing.

Philip Jacobs spelling of the Quechua (Runasimipi), linked in a previous post, is more correct, but not as understandable as the slightly Hispanicized spelling in the words below:

EL CONDOR PASA
Daniel Alomías Robles
Quechua

Yau kuntur llaqtay orgopy tiyaq
Maymantam gawamuhuakchianqui,
    kuntur kuntur
Apaylliahuay llaqtanchikman,
wasinchikman chay chiri orgupy,
Kutiytam munany,
    kuntur kuntur

Fugue
Kuzco llaqtapyn plazachallampyn
suyaykamullaway,
Machupicchupy Huaynapicchupu
purikunanchiqpaq

EL CÓNDOR PASA
Daniel Alomías Robles
Castillian

Oh majestuoso Cóndor de los Andes,
llévame a mi hogar, en los Andes,
Oh Cóndor

Quiero volver a mi tierra querida,
y vivir con mis hermanos Incas,
que es lo que más añoro,
Oh Cóndor

Fugue
Espérame en Cuzco, en la plaza principal,
para que vayamos a pasearnos,
a Machupicchu y Huayna-picchu.

El Condor Pasa    

For biography, see El Condor Pasa

Below are the Runasimipi (Quechuan) words posted by Jacobs in the linked article. More scholarly and up-to-date.

KUNTUR PHAWAN (YAW KUNTUR)
Runasimipi

Yaw kuntur llaqtay urqupi tiyaq,
maymantam qawamuwachkanki kuntur kuntur
Apallaway llaqtanchikman,
wasinchikman chay chiri urqupi,
kutiytam munani kuntur kuntur.

Qusqu llaqtapim plasachachallanpim suyaykamullaway,
Machu Pikchupi Wayna Pikchupi purikunanchikpaq.

ichaqa [fugue]
Qusqu llaqtapim Waqaypatapim suyakamullaway,
Machu Pikchupi Wayna Pikchupi purikunanchikpaq.

(Qusqu = Qosqo = Cuzco)

http://www.philip-jacobs.de/runasimi/y-kuntur.htm


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 02:06 PM

A page from the manuscript score by Robles:
http://www.geocities.com/e_pomareda/alomia.html

I have been trying to locate the zarzuela, "El Condor pasa," text Baudouin y Paz and music by Robles; I don't know if lyrics were used in the performance. Some articles indicate a complete copy may mot exist.
Partitura para piano by Robles of "El Cóndor pasa" available from Musica Peruana upon receipt of a donation-
http://www.musicaperuana.com/pdf_files/partituras-piano.pdf

At musica peruana, another composition based on Andean music, by Celso Garrido Lecca, "Kuntur Wachana," "Donde Nacen los Cóndores," may be heard in a 2-minute midi-
http://www.musicaperuana.com/english/song.htm


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Mysha
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 08:13 PM

Hi,

Well, at that site they don't seem to know who wrote the lyrics either. We've pretty much established that Daniel Alomías Robles wrote the music for the zarzuela, based on folk music motives. Julio Baudouin y Paz apparently wrote lyrics for the zarzuela as a whole, but this specific piece seems to have started out without words.

It's a puzzle. So far we still have only Paul Simon as author, so where did the Quechuan and the two sets of Spanish lyrics come from? There must be some pre-Simon recordings; I wonder what attribution is on those.

BFN
                                                                  Mysha


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Jim Lad
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 08:17 PM

I'd have to say the aside from the title, Paul Simon's version has absolutely no resemblance to the original song and that he is most definitely the author for that very reason.
His is a great song.
So is the first version on this page. (at least, to me.)


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 09:46 PM

Since the Hispanic websites assign the Quechuan and Castillian lyrics to Robles, I accept that. Certainly none of the Americans who took up the tune were capable of writing them.

Robles studied botany and zoology, was trained as a doctor, but abandoned that career for one in music. He was considered an authority on Andean folk music; as noted above he made collections in Andean folklore and poems, as well as composing some 146 classical and popular pieces of music.
His son, the film producer, known for his classic "La Muralla Verde" (The Green Wall), has collected his works. I don't know how to access these papers and MSS.

I don't usually accept Wikipedia as an authority; their article, based on the Spanish Wikipedia (linked above on my third try), cites Robles as the composer, "based on traditional Andean folk tunes."
The English article, much abbreviated, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_C%C3%B3ndor_Pasa


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Mysha
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 12:15 PM

Hi,

Q: I think we all agree that Alomía Robles is the composer; he wrote the music. But that doesn't necessarily mean he also wrote the lyrics. The websites you quote seem to leave that open, and the original score just has music, no words. That same Spanish Wikipedia page you mention, states that he only ever wrote lyrics for two of his songs, and that Armando, who didn't like the existing Spanish lyrics for his father's composition, wrote lyrics modelled after the Paul Simon lyrics. If the lyrics were his father's, he probably would not have done so (and Wikipedia probably wouldn't have stated it that way). So, I'm not convinced he wrote those lyrics, and I'm certainly not convinced he wrote two completely differing sets of Spanish lyrics. There probably was at least one other writer involved.

Jim, I know Paul Simon is the writer of the "If I Could"-lyrics, which in my opinion are reasonable but lack consistency. But that doesn't help us in determining where the Quechuan and the two sets of Spanish lyrics came from. I would like to hear sung that first Spanish version, but as it is, I hope the English lyrics I based on those are agreeable to you.

BFN
                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 03:07 PM

Extract from a UNESCO paper: "Recognizing Intangible Cultural Heritage," V. T. Hafstein.

"El Condor Pasa is an indigenous folksong from the Andes, arranged and incorporated into a larger composition in 1913 by the Peruvian composer and folksong collector Daniel Alomía Robles. In Robles' version, the song commemorates an indigenous revolt against white oppressors who abuse and degrade the native population, while the condor flies above, ruler of the skies and spirit of the Incas. ....
Speaking of the American folk revivalists- "....there was no jubilation in the Andes over its commercial success. On the contrary, as seen from the Andes this must have looked less like a celebration of indigenous traditional music and more like exploitation. Rich Americans had ransacked the musical tradition of poor people in the Andes and made millions of dollars, while not a dime was returned to the rightful "owners"--..."this time around even the condor itself was siphoned off, a symbol of native pride. ...The Bolivian letter to UNESCO's Director General in 1973 is a political expression of this bad taste."
(The article goes on to explore the oppression of indigenous peoples within Bolivia.)
"In the case of our song, El Condor Pasa, this was especially insidious because El Condor Pasa is a song of resistance."

Cultural heritage

Authorship of the texts has been ascribed to Robles, the composer of the music, and to Julio Badouin y Paz, the composer of the book for the 1913 zarzuela El Condor Pasa. Apparently only fragments of this musical play still exist.

The folklore and musical compositional works of Robles have been collected in the book by his son; A. R. Godoy, Editor, 1990, "Himno el Sol: La Obra folklorica y musical de Daniel Alomía Robles," in three volumes.
His manuscripts were donated to Universidad Peru (Universidad Católico del Peru), Inst. Ethnomusicology.

The song was registered in The Library of Congress, 1933, and is in the collection "Selected Works, 1900-1950." The collection seems to be small.

I cannot translate properly, but some of Robles' material, including a text in Quechua, is in a book, "La musica de los incas," published in Paris.
Robles


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Mysha
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 06:01 PM

Hi,

It is a bit unfortunate that these two sources disagree. The top one claims that the song is just traditional, merely incorporated into the zarzuela by Alomía Robles, while the bottom one states, correctly in my opinion, that while the song has some similarities to a Jauja lovesong, it's really a different piece. (As I read it, it's that Jauja song that appears in La música de los incas.)

Q: It may be that the difference in what sources we're willing to accept stems from the different interpretation of the word "composer". You use "composer" for Julio Badouin y Paz, writer of the text of the zarzuela as well. But for me "composer" only refers to music, so a source stating that Daniel Alomía Robles is the composer of El Cóndor Pasa, to me only says he wrote the music, not the lyrics.

Well, it appears we need someone close enough to The Library of Congress to look up the registration, as it's not on-line, or someone with access to a copy of the book Armando Robles Godoy edited about his father's work, or someone near Lima to look into the manuscripts at the PUCP. It would be interesting to know, if we could find out, but without historical sources I fear we'll have to leave the question open.

BFN
                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Jim Lad
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 07:39 PM

Mysha:
      Your lyrics are very nice indeed. Close to what I would do myself but from a different angle while staying true to the lyrics of the original piece.
Nicely done.
Jim


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 08:27 PM

"arranged and incorporated" can cover a multitude of changes. In the same article, "In Robles version, the song commemorates an indigenous revolt..." speaks to me of alterations.

Composer, to me, means merely one who composes- words, music, letters, articles, etc., etc.
In the words of the OED:
1. "One who puts together or combines into a whole."
2. "One who composes a literary work."
3. "One who composes music." Your sole definition?
4-. A designer, and other meanings.

Most sheet music avoids ambiguity by specifying 'words by'... and 'music by' ..., or words and music by'...; a clear specification.


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Jim Lad
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 11:18 PM

So, how many songs and variations of songs could you come up with for "The Bard of Armagh"?
I suspect that the same goes for this one.
Newfoundlanders are masters of borrowing tunes but finding the authors would be a very difficult task in many cases.
I'd suggest the "Bridge over Troubled Waters" album, a cozy fire and a beer.
Cheers!
Jim


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Mysha
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 08:28 PM

Hi,

Q, that's not the only meaning I know for "composer", but the only one I know how to apply to writing a song. One of the articles does say something about his version being about "an indigenous revolt", but that's not what the the (Spanish) texts we know are about. It was, however, what the zarzuela El Cóndor Pasa was about, so maybe there's a mix-up here.

Jim, it's not the variation we're looking into, but the origin. This is just a century ago, and there clearly are records of what happened, but the secondary sources either didn't know the sources or are interpreting or describing them rather loosely. As a result, it turns out to be less then easy to find a description that appears precise enough to be trusted. It may still turn out that there are lyrics by Daniel Alomía Robles, but different ones from those we have here.
Regarding Bridge over troubled Water: It's a good LP, but though If I Could is probably the most famous version, it's probably not the best version, and in my opinion it's not the best piece on the LP either.

This is the version Armando Robles Godoy wrote after Paul Simons version:

Prefiero ser un cóndor que un gorrión
y volar sin soñar y sin canción.
Prefiero ser un árbol que una flor
y crecer sin temer y sin dolor.

Buscar sin encontrar jamás
sin descansar sin fe ni paz.
Partir y nunca regresar y así vivir
y así pasar.
Y así pasar.

Prefiero ser el beso que el amor
y olvidar sin llorar y sin rencor.
Prefiero ser la lluvia sobre el mar
y morir sin sufrir y sin cesar.

Buscar sin regresar jamás
sin encontrar sin fe ni paz.
Partir y nunca descansar y así vivir
y así pasar.
Y así pasar.

BFN
                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Jim Lad
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 09:51 PM

"It's a good LP"
Yes and the pope's not a bad Catholic.
Maybe I'll rewrite the song myself and call it "Homeward Bound".
I chose Newfoundland as an example, for many reasons. Regardless of how recently or long ago the songs were written, authorship has often been lost and has never really ranked that highly to Newfoundlanders.
Once lost, it is close to impossible to rediscover. Even more so when several versions exist.
Good luck though.


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Subject: RE: El Condor Pasa
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 10:46 PM

This post may be nonsense, but a recent report from Guatemala raised a question in my mind. Maya are again allowed in Tikal, one of their ancient cities; they were barred supposedly to insure preservation of the sites and their antiquities.
Were the Quechua banned from holding ceremonies in the region of Machupicchu and Wayna-picchu in the early 1900s?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: El Condor Pasa (in Spanish or Portuguese)
From: GUEST,george rici
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 09:41 AM

... but Inca Huasy ???? Have somebody this text?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: El Condor Pasa (in Spanish or Portuguese)
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 12:33 PM

El Condor pasa – The Condor Passes -- this is the introductory info I give when I perform El condor pasa, which means "The condor passes."
This mournful song is about the near-disappearance of the sacred Andean Condor, now an endangered species. It has wingspan 10 feet, the largest land bird in the world. The final verse refers to Huayna Picchu Mountain and Machu Picchu, located in Peru situated in the Cusco Region. There is a Temple do Condor there. The music was written in 1913 by the Peruvian composer Daniel Alomía Robles, and based on traditional Andean folk tunes. The original lyrics are by Julio Baudouin. There are now about 400 of versions of the melody and about 300 sets of lyrics, including Paul Simon's lyrics, which are unrelated to the condor.   This song is now considered the second national anthem of Peru.

I'm posting the English translation of lyrics as I have set them to the beat. I checked with my Latin Song class teacher, who says the translation I found is completely accurate. I'm still trying to track down the lyricist for the version I'll post -- I do not know if these are the original lyrics are by Julio Baudouin.


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