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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:36 PM For which, see also these threads from 1999: Shores of Botany Bay Botany bay & Don't come again |
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Subject: Lyr Add: BOTANY BAY From: olddude Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:04 PM Oh I'm on my way down to the quay Where a big ship now does lie For to take a gang of navvies I was told to engage But I thought I would call in for a while Before I went away For to take a trip in an emigrant ship To the shores of Botany Bay Chorus: Farewell to your bricks and mortar Farewell to your dirty lime Farewell to your gangway and gang planks And to hell with your overtime For the good ship Ragamuffin She is lying at the quay For to take old Pat with a shovel on his back To the shores of Botany Bay The best years of our life we spend At working on the docks Building mighty wharves and quays Of earth and ballast rocks Our pensions keep our lives secure But I'll not rue the day When I take a trip on an emigrant ship To the shores of Botany Bay For the boss came up this morning And he said "Well Pat hello If you do not mix that mortar fast Be sure you'll have to go" Of course he did insult me I demanded of my pay And I told him straight I was going to emigrate To the shores of Botany Bay And when I reach Australia I'll go and look for gold Sure there's plenty there for the digging Or so I have been told Or I might go back into my trade Eight hundred bricks I'll lay In an eight hour day for eight bob pay On the shores of Botany Bay |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: Jack Campin Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:50 AM Any crime not serious enough for a hanging. Thieves, prostitutes and drunken hooligans. I rather liked the response of one British comedian who was asked by some Aussie smartarse on his arrival there "does it bother you that most Australians are descended from convicts?" - he replied, "no, the ones that worry me are those whose ancestors were prison wardens". |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: GUEST,caitlynJ Date: 31 Aug 08 - 11:47 PM who was the criminals that were banished to van diemans land in the old ages. |
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Subject: In praise of Ralph Rashleigh From: Joybell Date: 14 Nov 05 - 11:39 PM Re Ralph Rashleigh. Helen - so I'm not the only one who's come across this wonderful book. It won't help in the current discussion but I just have to say it's a liitle gem. Written by a convict and not by someone after the event. It's an exagerated biography but the details about life in Sydney, seen from a convict's point of view, are acurate. I learned about the early Convict Theaters from this book. Well written by a very young man transported at the age of 17. I think it's unique of its type. Cheers, Joy |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 14 Nov 05 - 11:24 PM In answer to "Just Looking's" question, it appears that a total of 154 Canadians were transported to Australia following their involvement in the political uprisings in Upper Canada (now Ontario) and Lower Canada (now Quebec) in 1837-38. Most returned to Canada after serving their sentences. Canada in Australia. I have no idea if any Americans were ever transported to Australia. Perhaps some of those who were involved in America's failed attempts to invade Canada wound up there. Bob Bolton might know. |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: Dave'sWife Date: 14 Nov 05 - 09:40 PM apropos of nothing - When my Dad was small, he thought Van Dieman's land was " Bandyman's land" or "Banditman's Land" And when he sang that verse of Black velvet Band that goes 'You're going ta Van Dieman's land" he always thought it said: 'You're going ta BanditMan's Land" |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: paddymac Date: 12 Nov 05 - 07:40 PM Date: 23 Feb 00 - 05:53 AM Hi! Does anyone know the relation between Ireland and Van Diemen's land??? Need it for my Cert. (very quick), hope that anyone can help me!? Thanx Chris and Date: 23 Feb 00 - 02:20 PM Thank you all very much!!!!!!! You have no idea how much you helped me! Thanx! :-) ** I have greatly enjoyed rereading this thread, but it got me to wondering whether "Chris" has come back around the place. By now he's probably through with university, if that was his path. If you happen by, Chris, how aboiut a brief update on how the world has treated you thus far. |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: Helen Date: 12 Nov 05 - 04:16 PM Hi Celtaddict, I discovered this website the other day for secondhand books in Oz, UK etc. James Tucker: Ralph Rashleigh Just look for prices in your range and location. I don't know where you are, but you could also try the Barnes and Noble or Amazon secondhand book searches. I have ordered books & CD's through the secondhand places and so far it has been prompt and reliable. Although I can't say on the Books & Collectibles site because I have just ordered something and I'm waiting for it to be delivered. I did start reading Ralph Rashleigh when I was studying Oz Lit about 3 decades ago, I never did finish it, mainly because I had to read so many books at one time that it wasn't a good way to "get into" any one book. Also, I don't lend books any more unless I really trust the person to give it back. It is so easy now with databases to find them secondhand or through the library. If I really want to lend one to someone I buy a cheap copy secondhand, and lend them that. You may be able to find the other book you want that way too. Helen |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: Celtaddict Date: 12 Nov 05 - 02:22 PM There is an old book I ran across in haunting used bookstores, by a man writing as "Ralph Rashleigh" (thought likely a pen name) telling of his life in petty crime in London, his way through the courts, transportation, convict life, escape, time as bush ranger, ultimately redeemed life; while the name is probably fake and many of the exploits are quite melodramatic, and it seems unlikely all the described events happened to one person, some of the details ring quite true. Unfortunately I loaned the book to a friend and have yet to have it returned. (And I know better; this friend has had a long-out-of-print songbook for nigh on 20 years; I keep saying, please let me borrow it back to copy out the songs I want and I will gladly GIVE you the book.) |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: Georgiansilver Date: 12 Nov 05 - 12:30 PM These lyrics were written last year and are sung using a trad tune..."Both sides the Tweed" Best wishes, Mike. The water is deep and so wide, I fear that I cannot cross o'er. Nor have I the wings I might fly, To be with my true love once more. For Willie lives over the sea, In the land of Van Diemen they say. And I never will see my true love, Until my dying day. Found guilty they took him away, On His Majestys ship the good "Sire". Although he is so far from me, Twill not kill this loves inner fire. I'll go to that Van Diemens Land, To find the true love I adore. But I need of a handsome boatman, To row me to that distant shore. My true love shall see me again, For there will I go to his side. I will gather him close to my breast, He will take me to be his own bride. Though Van Diemens Land may be far, As there it is so will I be. I'll hold my true love again, And he in his turn shall hold me. Lyrics, Mike Hill (August 2004) Tune, trad (Both Sides the Tweed) |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: John Routledge Date: 12 Nov 05 - 09:44 AM What a cracking thread. Have been promising myself to learn a version of Van Dieman's land for many months. NOW I will. |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: GUEST,Just looking Date: 12 Nov 05 - 09:25 AM Actually I think it was the late 1830's to the early 1840's. |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: GUEST,Just looking Date: 12 Nov 05 - 09:11 AM Does anyone have any information regarding Americans & Canadians sent to Van Diemans Land as prisoners of the British in the 1820's? |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: GUEST,Chris Date: 09 May 01 - 09:51 AM Hi Bob, re your expressed interest in 'Frank the Poet',I've recently read 'Exiles from Erin'(Convict lives in Ireland and Australia),edited by Bob Reece of Murdoch Uni.WA. It has an interesting chapter on 'Frank the Poet'. According to this its not clear from the available sources whereabouts in Ireland he hailed from, but he may have been from Co Clare and a relative of Donncadh Rua Mac Conmara the Irish poet. Have you anything on this ? |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: toadfrog Date: 08 May 01 - 09:47 PM Thanks for all the help! I had not expected such a swift & thorough responses! Yes, I am real sure that I saw that newspaper article, although it was written for a Berlin newspaper by one of the guys I studied for my dissertation. The year is correct, but you are undoubtly right in saying it described a moribund institution. |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: GUEST,John Gray/Australia Date: 08 May 01 - 12:28 PM Another very good book on the subject is Convicts and the Colonies by A.G.L. Shaw. Shaw was Professor of History at a couple of Australian universities. First published 1977. JG / F.M.E. |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: Big Tim Date: 08 May 01 - 09:26 AM For a good account of transportation and Irish exile generally see "The Great Shame: a story of the Irish in the old world and the new" by Thomas Keneally (of "Schindler's List/Ark" fame). Chatto & Windus, London, 1998. This is a great and very readable piece of work. |
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Subject: RE: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Land From: Roo Date: 08 May 01 - 08:31 AM Hello toadfrog, Australia's transportation records as far as I am aware are archived and copies are readily available at libraries and the NSW State Archives (probably of no use to you though, I'm afraid) . Robert Hughes' Fatal Shore is available in paperback at a normal paperback price. Here's a concise background to the convict system and Tasmania and The National Archives of Ireland has a good general description of transportation on its site. Well worth reading if you want a good overview.
You might find these convict narratives online interesting: NARRATIVE OF THE ADVENTURES AND SUFFERINGS OF CAPTAIN DANIEL D. HEUSTIS AND HIS COMPANIONS,IN CANADA AND VAN DIEMANS LAND ( full transcript)
SEVEN YEARS OF MY LIFE OR NARRATIVE OF A PATRIOT EXILE WHO TOGETHER WITH EIGHTY-TWO AMERICAN CITIZENS WERE ILLEGALLY TRIED FOR REBELLION IN UPPER CANADA IN 1838, AND TRANSPORTED TO VAN DIEMANS LAND. EXILES RETURN OR NARRATIVE OF SAMUEL SNOW WHO WAS BANISHED TO VAN DIEMANS LAND, FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE PATRIOT WAR IN UPPER CANADA IN 1838
If you want source material on the subject of transportation, this has some good stuff. If you want any more, email me as I have some good books on transportation and can give you the details.
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: GUEST,Maureen Cummuskey Date: 08 May 01 - 01:35 AM bob, damned whores and god's police was written by anne summers. |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: CRANKY YANKEE Date: 08 May 01 - 01:07 AM What about, "Maggie Maggie May, they have taken her away To walk upon Van Diemen's cruel shore. She robbed many a sailor and dosed many a whaler She'll never walk down lime street anymore. Any of you lot hear "The Girl in the BLUE velvet band"? Bluegrass version of the same story. , last verse goes They sentenced me to San Quentin for stealing God knows I'm an innocent man and the guilty one knows of my trials The girl in the blue velvet band. When the audience sing "The Black Velvet Band" as if it were a happy drinking song, I like to see who takes notice of the serious nature of the song, and sing Her eyes they were red as the sunset You'd have thought she was queen of a zoo and her feet hung off of her ankles tied up in a black leather shoe. Thank goodness there are people who's heritage is Italian to sing Irish ballads the way (perhaps) the author intended. said he with his tongue in his cheek. |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Bob Bolton Date: 08 May 01 - 12:37 AM G'day toadfrog, I don't know where you are, so I can't hazard a guess at what books are currently available in your part of the world. In general, I can't think of a good single book on the transportation of convicts to Australia (or the earlier, and longer transportation to the Americas). I have a number of specific books to which I refer ... mostly local, and some of them from small private imprints. I have often been frustrated by the lack a good, authoritative history of this aspect of the period. I know a lot of the NSW State records, covering this period, were destroyed in the 1881 (~?) fire in the 1880 Exposition Crystal Palace, which had then been used as a records store. It is often suggested that influential people in the Government wished some old records to go up in smoke! The best-known book, world wide, on this period and area of settlement would be Robert Hughes The Fatal Shore. There are some who feel he pushes one particular line too far ... and others who reckon he gets it pretty right - but it is a big and expensive book. I'm not sure about the 1850 date for your "sending some women" - by then transportation to the eastern states had almost ceased ... and would be completely killed by the announcement of gold finds on the Turon River in the next year or two. As well, pioneer social reformers like Caroline Chisholm were bringing out women as settlers to civilise the wild colonies. This is dealt with well in another book called Damned Wores and God's Police (sorry, I can't think of the author, off-hand). The titles comes from an early remark of a "First Fleet" officer, on hearing that a new fleet would bring more women: "Oh no! More damned whores!" - contrasted to Caroline Chisholm's contention that women were needed as "God's Police" in the colony. Transportation continued to Western Australia into the 1860s, but was opposed by Australian patriotic groups since the 1830s. The only ones wanting to maintain transportation were the large property owners who wanted cheap labour. If they had discovered gold in the west a bit earlier, it would have all finished then! Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: toadfrog Date: 07 May 01 - 10:45 PM Bob Bolton: Thanks! This is social history I have long been curious about. (Now I think about it, I'd been singing "Black Velvet Band" for about 45 years without actually knowing what it was about.) Is there a good history of the Transportations anywhere? Apparently another destination for Transports was the Cape Colony. I ran into a newspaper article from ca. 1850 stating that the government there had told London that, unless they started sending some women, the Colony would not accept any more convicts. |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Bob Bolton Date: 28 Feb 00 - 04:18 PM G'day Roger and Tom, If you go up about 36/7 posts, AndyG's link will give you the full spiel on Van Dieman. The early Dutch explorer aspects of van Diemam's Land/Tasmania have no connection to its later history as a British convict colony and subsequent development as a state of Australia. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 28 Feb 00 - 06:57 AM Named for Anthony Van Dieman Governor-General of the Dutch East India Company.(According to Britannica Online) RtS |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Tom Davis Date: 28 Feb 00 - 06:41 AM As Tasmania was named after a Dutch explorer by the name of Tasman, I would guess that Mr Van Dieman was one of his officers, or perhaps the captain of another ship from the same land. Or maybe not. Tom |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Bob Bolton Date: 28 Feb 00 - 03:19 AM G'day Callie, I prefer to think that spelling was far less formalised then than now. It was halfway back to the Elizabethan era, when there was no such animal as orthography. I also suspect that many convicts - such as "Frank the Poet", in whom I am greatly interested (and who served time at Port Arthur), were far more literate than many of the soldiers ... and even some of the administrators. A friend, who worked for the National Parks Authority, told me that the first farm registered in Australia was intended to be called Alpha Farm by its literate owner ... but was registered by the Government clerk as (H ommitted)'Alf a Farm ... Well, the other name was all Greek to him! Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Callie Date: 28 Feb 00 - 03:06 AM I found the Isle of the Dead very very sad. Did you notice that the details on the tombstones were often misspelt, because the convicts were largely illiterate? |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: GUEST Date: 28 Feb 00 - 02:05 AM Bless you, Bob. |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Bob Bolton Date: 28 Feb 00 - 12:50 AM G'day Callie, I fear it was in the 30s (~35) and a world record ... but I don't really want to think hard about it. I loved the atmosphere of Port Arthur, when I stayed at the Youth Hostel in 1966 and did some restoration work. One rainy September (1987?) my wife and I got a private boat trip (there were no other passengers and the operator was kind enough to sail with just us) to the Isle of the Dead - where the soldiers, administrators and settlers lie beneath tombstones ... and the convicts are just buried. The mist and rain washed away the veil of years and so much stood out that the atmosphere was palpable. Now the ghosts are just too recent. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Callie Date: 27 Feb 00 - 09:58 PM Sorry - I meant 1996 - not 86!! A slip of the '8'! How many people actually died Bob? Do you remember? --Callie |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Bob Bolton Date: 27 Feb 00 - 09:40 PM G'day Callie, I think you will find that Martin Bryant's killing spree was rather more recent ... and extensive. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Callie Date: 27 Feb 00 - 05:00 PM Wow! I'm Australian and I didn't know a lot of this stuff! Thank you to you all. And McGrath: We hve t'spk like ths so as not t'frightn off th'kngaroos (tmd crtures). Folks may be interested in a tragic update to the Van Diemen's story. Port Arthur is now a museum prison that attracts lots of tourists (you can take ghost tours at night etc). In 1986 a disturbed man went on a killing rampage there and shot about a dozen tourists, rangers and canteen staff. In Australia, Port Arthur is now known as the site of the most horrific and tragic massacre. --Callie |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: GUEST Date: 27 Feb 00 - 01:05 AM Damn! Bob Bolton!! Amazing stuff!! Thanks! Keep posting, Bob!! |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Bob Bolton Date: 26 Feb 00 - 09:22 PM G'day all, Curtis & Loretta: If you check most versions of Black Velvet Band you will find that the lady is not apprehended. She sets him up ... 'frames him' for her theft. I have heard some contend that this records a practice, at one point, of authorities trying to get a few tradesmen (the singer, in whatever town is mentioned on that particular broadside, says "... Apprenticed to trade I was bound ...") out to colonies full of the unskilled poor who fell foul of the law. Since many magistrates and other influential people would have had connections, investments or even proprties in The Colonies, it was to their advantage to provided a pool of skilled artisans. I had a friend in "Rouseabouts" Bush Band, during the 1970s (Ray Grieve, author of the definitive history of the mouthorgan in Australia A Band in a Waistcoat Pocket), who has always maintained his family's claim that their convict anscestor was the victim of just such a subterfuge. One aspect, stonemasonry and building, had been dealt with when the English transferred the prisoners of the 1798 Irish uprising from Belfast, where they had been set to work building then world's biggest drydock, out to Australia, rather than releasing them as (now) skilled tradsman. This probably explains why the Stonemasons' Union, later in the 19th century, was one of the most progressive and effective, pushing through the 8 hour working day with their campaign sloganned 8 Hours Work - 8 Hours Play - 8 Hours Sleep - 8 Bob a Day. These men carved the old part of Sydney from "The Rocks" that still give their name to that district. McGrath of Harlow: Your explanation pretty well agrees with my suspicions. Such a confection could only be constructed deliberately by someone with a broad knowledge of the different texts ... and a warped sense of humour. I'm not sure it would be a good thing for me to know who it was! Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 Feb 00 - 02:24 PM I've had a look at WILD YOUNG IRISH BOY - and I strongly suspect it's intended as in-joke song, for folkies, with the joke lying in recognising the numerous songs that are being plundered, and also in the sheer inordinate length of the song. Just when you think it's finished, it lurches off into another length of saga.
Sung in an exaggeratedly stylised way in a song-circle of people who knew all the old songs, it could be quite fun too. But not many audiences could take it, and not that many singers could carry it off. |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: GUEST,Curtis & Loretta Date: 26 Feb 00 - 02:04 PM It's also mentioned in "Black Velvet Band." The song's main character (and the woman he's fallen in love with) are both sent to Van Dieman's Land for 7 years, for stealing a watch. |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Calach Date: 26 Feb 00 - 04:56 AM Hi Bob, thanks for the story. Seems you've led an interesting life so far and glad that traditional music helped in that way. I was born in Edinburgh and after getting hitched, have spent the last 17 years in the Kingdom of Fife, just over the water. I'm a 40 year old amateur who plays a bit of guitar, flute, bodhran, and sings to some lesser degree. I co-started a folk club in Longside (little village inland from peterhead) then started another one nearer home (Leslie Folk Club) and have been the lynchpin of that club for 3 years. I've just split up from my wife of 18 years, moved back into Edinburgh, and have taken to an internet romance thing with a beautiful woman in Kansas USA (yup 4000 miles away!) She's a folkie too and sings and plays guitar, flute, mandolin. I'm going to see her (not for the first time) in 18 days and we've got a half-hour spot in a club in Kansas City. We've never played together properly before, and it'll be fun. That's the story so far. My email address is calach@fsbdial.co.uk if you wanna keep in touch. Thanks for chatting, see ya mate! Calach |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Bob Bolton Date: 26 Feb 00 - 03:49 AM G'day Calach / Ian,
I live in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia (you know, the place cringing as our politicians and their apparatchiks teach the rest of the world how to make the Olympic Games really look like a swine-feeding frenzy at the big trough!). I can't see my profile in Quick Links / bbc's Mudcat Resources - Mudcat Profiles yet, so I had better practice a less prolix version: Back in Sydney I was active again with the Bush Music Club, having been Concert Party Leader at various times between 1965 and the present. I played in Bush Bands: The Rouseabouts from ~1974 - 1978, Selectors from ~ 1980 - 1989 and The Backblocks Musicians from 1990 - present. I've been involved with the Club's publishing for 30 years and have variously designed, edited, illustrated and got out tape and (soon) CD compilations. Portable, improvised and makeshift instruments and there effect in shaping an Australian style are a major interest and I play (and make) [wooden playing] bones, lagerphone, bush (tea chest) bass, home-made whistles as well as mouth organ, Anglo concertina and accordions. I sing traditionally - unaccompanied and, along with our past traditions, I seem to sing a lot of songs written by people I know ... and the odd Henry Lawson poem set by me or others. When I am playing, it is usually dance music of our colonial era. I love Tasmania and have a particular interest in "Frank the Poet" a convict who spent some less than happy years there for opposing the British in Ireland. Many of his poems have survived as songs - including the original Wild Colonial Boy, which descends from his poem Jack Donahoe. A friend and I found a 91-year old Tasmanian, a Mr Wilson of Cygnet, who knew a version of The Siezure of the 'Cyprus' Brig, mentioned up in my first posting. We did not collect it but managed to get this one. I had best sign off before this gets too long. There will probably be a profile in bbc's resources soon (she does depend on her almost-18-year-old son for the technical bits!). Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Amos Date: 25 Feb 00 - 12:13 PM Damn, Shimbo, you Tasmanian devil -- If I had two heads I could stay on the Cat all day! Use the other one to catch up on sleep. ANyone know a really good geneticist? A |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Shimbo Darktree Date: 25 Feb 00 - 11:52 AM Well now, folks, I guess I should hide my head in shame. As a Tasmanian born and bred, I thought I would see if I could shed some light on the subject ... and I find I'm learning, rather than educating. Good on you, folk scholars one and all. I'll pull my two heads in. (We Tasmanians supposedly have two heads ... inbreeding you know.) Shimbo |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Calach Date: 25 Feb 00 - 09:13 AM Where you from Bob, and what do you do folk-wise? I'm in Edinburgh, solo performer singer/songwriter, got a collection of 300+ songs; mostly trad with around 20 of my own... Cheers Ian |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Bob Bolton Date: 25 Feb 00 - 07:06 AM G'day Calach, I don't hold any version to be from the hand of God. Quite a lot od singers - and book editors - would do the same if they did not have a single coherent version they liked. In the context of performance that is only an acceleration of the 'folk process'. I reckon the result looks fairly consistent and, if you can identify with it, you will probably do a good job. Perhaps it would be nice to make the reworking clear in a scholarly setting ... but probably not when you are on stage. My real worry was about the different song, headed Wild Young Irish Boy in the Digital Tradition. This has borrowings from at least six traditional sources that I can recognize, no coherence, scores of inconsistencies and anachronisms, is one and a half times longer than any modern audience will sit through and isn't much of a song! (Oh, BTW: I don't like it.) Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Calach Date: 25 Feb 00 - 01:42 AM To BOB BOLTON Hi Bob, got those lyrics from an old folk anthology book in Kirkcaldy (Fife) Library. There were 17 versions of the song, so I took the best verses from all of them, put them in some sort of order and made the above version. Hope you don't mind my approach. Ian |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Amos Date: 24 Feb 00 - 06:58 PM Heart, be still -- a Folkie Hunter! H'ain't seen one o'them in these wood for nigh on twenty years. Big'un, too! Looks kinda mean...hmmmm...big gun...what to do? Guess I'll jes' go hide in that bush over there 'n' be real still an' make a noise like a bodhran... |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Bob Bolton Date: 24 Feb 00 - 05:37 PM G'day Calach, That is quite a good Scottish Van Dieman's Land. the version in the DT marked Van Dieman's Land (Young Men Beware) is a pretty fair version of the English (probably original - see my posting above) version. The one simply marked Van Dieman's Land and then headed Wild Young Irish Boy. is an incredible mélange of: Wild Colonial Boy, Van Dieman's Land, Henry Lawson's Trooper Campbell and Captain Starlight ... and God knows what. It even has a verse starting "Now, one morning in the merry month of May ...! I wish I knew more of its provenance - maybe to hunt down the author and put him out of his misery. Regard(les)s, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Feb 00 - 05:32 PM I reckon there's as many accents in East Anglia as there are parishes. I think in the old days that's how they used to amuse themselves in the dark winter nights, in between the songs. Like in Newfoundland where it's said no two parishes have the same accent.
Not that Essex is in East Anglia. Saxons, not Angles. (Though up in Norfolk they're really Danes, when they aren't Dutch.)
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Subject: Lyr Add: VAN DIEMEN'S LAND From: Calach Date: 24 Feb 00 - 05:12 PM Van Diemen's Land Lyrics as follows: (To the tune; THE STAR OF THE COUNTY DOWN) VAN DIEMEN'S LAND Come on ye gallant poachers that ramble void o' care That waltz out on a moonlit night with dog and gun and snare The harmless hare and pheasant, boys, ye have at your command Never thinking that you'll be transported to Van Diemen's Land For fourteen years and longer, I've been a poacher bold I was aye stout and sturdy and I never felt the cold One night I went to Ben-a-Bhuird, my gun into my hand And the last thing on my mind was sailing to Van Diemen's Land But waiting for to capture me, six keepers in a row They've caught me and they've tied me, my luck to overthrow They marched me off to Aberdeen, my trial for to stand And the next day I am on a ship bound for Van Diemen's Land 'Twas in the month of April we were landed on the shore The jailers came around us, full half a score or more They drew us up like horses, and marched us off the sand And yoked us to the ploughs, me boys, to plough Van Diemen's Land. The houses that we dwell in here are made of clod and clay With rotten straw for bedding to end our working day Around our camps are blazing fires, we slumber when we can And we fight the wolves and tigers here, upon Van Diemen's Land Sometimes when I do slumber, I have a pleasant dream That my true love was along wi' me doon by yon purlin' stream In Scotland I am walking with her, walking hand in hand But I wake up broken hearted, here in Van Diemen's Land Here's a hearty health to all my friends that poacher are by name Here's a toast unto the poacher lad when in pursuit of game May they aye be at their liberty, not taken out of hand Lest they be transported here unto Van Diemen's Land Here's a health unto my native land as I look out from the shore And to the bonnie braes o' Mar, for those I'll see no more Fareweel unto the bonnie lass who'll never understand Why I was roughly taken from her to Van Diemen's Land |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: Bert Date: 24 Feb 00 - 03:14 PM I thought that there were several distinct East Anglian accents. Essex, Cambridge, Suffolk, Norfolk etc.. As many if not more than there are counties. And the fishing ports would probably be somewhat different as well. |
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Subject: RE: Help: HELP ME, IMPORTANT!!!: Van Diemen's Lan From: GUEST,Annraoi Date: 24 Feb 00 - 02:52 PM Guest, Chriss, Did the Newry revolutionary John Mitchel not spend some time in Van Diemen's Land for his activities in Ireland ? You might care to look up references for the song "John Mitchell" which might give some further lines for your cert. Annraoi |
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