MP3 Ban

Subject: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 05:41 AM

From current BBC Online News:
Universities in the United States are preventing students from accessing some of the most popular internet music sites.

Staff have found that students downloading music has at times accounted for up to 60% of university internet traffic - which they say has slowed down staff and students using the internet for academic work.

A growing number of universities are now using filtering programmes to deny students access to music sites.

Among them is the University of Illinois, which has banned access to Napster, a site which allows users to locate and download MP3s - music files
RtS

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 07:18 AM

Strongly urge you retitle this to be thought for the day. Clearly these students are trying to stuff themselves with junk food becuase they are starving for the real thing. They need our help, souls are shriveling. Save the world today: All folkies should proceed at once to the neaerst college and feed these kids, because we have the real food, live, unplugged. Spend the spring haunting campus gathering spots, playing.

Mbo, be the pied piper, you music mix is perfect for this.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 11:33 AM

Every filter can be got around, and if anyone can find a way to do it, kids will... and I say let 'em!
I don't think that the MP3 thing can be stopped at this point... Well... maybe along 'official' channels, but I don't know anyone who sticks to those!

LOL!!

{~`

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,Okiemockbird
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 12:23 PM

Here is a Slashdot article that is relevant to this thread.

T.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: Willie-O
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 12:27 PM

They banned access to Napster from the net at Carleton U in Ottawa too.

Big lot of good it'll do them--but lets face it, the effect of mp3 popularity in particular is that a lot of bandwidth needs to be dedicated to peoples' desire to pass BIG FAT multimedia files around. And where this is going to be particularly noticeable, like college/university sites (or nets including big multimedia collections), its going to need to be addressed the only way possible, by adding more bandwidth.

Cutting off access to one site--or a dozen sites-- might have a temporary effect, but they are silly to think it'll solve their resources problem.

It's kind of silly to assume that all the stuff students are downloading is "junk food". How do you know what they're listening to, and presume to judge it?

W-O

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: Chocolate Pi
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 12:37 PM

My university just banned Napster about a week ago, causing no end of debate on the campus newsgroups. Basically, the problem is that Napster makes any computer it's installed on into a server which anyone can acess from the outside. Anytime someone from outside wants an mp3 from someone on campus, they can just download it from the desktop here. Even if they're compressed, mp3s are big files, and all this extra traffic clogs up bandwidth and really makes doing anything online excruciatingly slow. And most of the mp3s being downloaded are disgusting popular music illegally ripped from CD. It's bad enough to have to deal with sluggish data connections, but then to have to listen to the stuff coming through the walls ... I have no quibble with mp3s as a form of promoting new bands or sampling recordings before buying them, but the current state of mp3s on campus is both annoying to the other students and illegal for the administration (they're responsible for not having pirated recordings on the network). $.02

Chocolate Pi (who is going to practice flute now in a vain attempt to drown out the amplified recordings of pop music)

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: Jon W.
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 12:39 PM

A better way might be to charge the students per MB downloaded on university equipment and let them regulate themselves (after all, they are supposed to be adults). 'course you'd have to give them a reasonable budget for doing legitimate research - but if they exceed that, then they are free to do so if they have the bucks. The bucks, in turn, could help upgrade the university's equipment. Otherwise the students can get their own ISP and pay like the rest of us do.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: Grab
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 01:11 PM

The guys who make Napster, and several more connected unis, have suggested that the sysadmins simply prioritise traffic so MP3s get overridden by anything important. The MP3 traffic then just fills in the gaps between other stuff. This isn't too hard, and a blanket ban does tend to suggest that the sysadmins don't really want to work too hard at their jobs.

Grab.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 01:28 PM

The last time I went back as a mature student a couple of years ago, bandwith was not the only issue. The IT workshop which was the biggest computer resource was constanly tied up with people sending messages to people a few yards from them, playing games etc.

I think that most people on my course (HNC Business IT) gave up struggling to use the colleges facilites and worked from home. The course I was on was desiged for mature students and most of us had our own computers at home so it wasn't too big a problem but I wonder what it must have been like for some of the ones who did not have their own resources.

Jon

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: MMario
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 01:29 PM

don't forget that most univerisities also have a vested interest in supporting copyright....which may have something to do with this.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: Mbo
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 01:41 PM

Ahh yes...but sites like these really hold no interest for this university student. What MP3 sites have unreleased music from 70's rock bands? None, I bet! One of these days, when I don't have to haul all this art junk around with me, I can take my guitar to school. Give the fellow kids a kick in the pants with a little ELO, Moodies, and the Dougster. Chocy Pi lass--I have an apartment, but when the neighbors start rappin' I either put on ELO's "Roll Over Beethoven" or grab my fiddle and play some tunes REALLY LOUD! Vive Le Musique! Ha--ECU hasn't figured out a way to keep me off Mudcat!!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 01:48 PM

"when the neighbors start rappin' I either put on ELO's "Roll Over Beethoven" or grab my fiddle and play some tunes REALLY LOUD! " - now that could mean when they start playing loud rap records you want to drown out, or it could mean when they start banging on the walls because you're being too loud yourself.

I hope it's the first...

Aint language wonderful?

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: Mbo
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 01:50 PM

McGrath, not even ELO of the fiddles can out-loud the rap. Maybe a nuclear bomb could.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,The youngest Bob Dylan Fan
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 05:45 PM

I have 90+ MP3's and have Napster. I have found many hard to find songs from The Band, Bob Dylan, etc. I don't know about the copyright issue, but I do know that, when you download MP3's from some sites, they store them in temporary internet folders and are deleted within 24 hours. However, every song you find and download with Napster is yours to keep.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 06:57 PM

Clinton is so right--everyone connected with college/university systems know that there are students hacking away 24/7--if there is a weakness, they find it, if there is no weakness, they just find away around--

--the RIAA seem to be pushing these bans on Napster, and might have legal resources that can scare administrators into submission, but hackers always have a way to get back at them--if you don't believe me, just ask Microsoft--

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,_gargoyle
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 07:17 PM

MP3 is hear to stay

Administrators and copyright can't stand in its way

For once the little guy can have his own say

Only the shot callers won't get their pay.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: Mbo
Date: 29 Feb 00 - 07:22 PM

McGrath--it is indeed the former. I never play music too loud to annoy people. I usually only play the fiddle when the neighbors aren't home. But when THEY disgerage my feelings and pounds the ground with the hiphop beat, I play my fiddle or my music--not to make them mad, or to win a battle of the bands--but so I don't have to hear the nasty obesenity laced woman hating brand of rap they seem to favor. It's especially embarrassing when you're there with your sister.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: raredance
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 09:26 PM

The "ban" must certainly be the fad of the moment. At noon today I saw a headline from the Grand Forks Herald saying the University of North Dakota in Grand Forks had banned a web site, Napster. They obviously had done it yesterday to be in today's paper. A couple hours later I received an email at work saying that the North Dakota State University in Fargo had done the same. It causes one to wonder if there has really been a noticeable degradtion of computer services at these institutions or if it is a preemptive strike being pushed for political/economic reasons such as pressure and threats from the music industry.

rich r

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,Okiemockbird
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 10:44 PM

I believe the Digital Millenium Copyright Act requires ISP's to act as copyright cops under certain conditions.

T.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,_gargoyle
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 11:21 PM

In the final count....MP3 BANS will become "foreign aide" assets to the developing nations of the Balkin States...Rumania, CZ, and even the RU itself.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,Okiemockbird
Date: 29 Mar 00 - 12:24 PM

Here are some links that those interested in the MP3 wars might find useful:

MP3 files are not yet CD quality

Napster has shortcomings

T.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,Jack
Date: 29 Mar 00 - 01:02 PM

As a network administrator myself, I sympathize with the University. It has nothing to do with MP3 or Napster or what 'Kids will find a way to do'. University Networks are there to facilitate the academic mission of the university, not provide personal recreation. The universities network hardware belongs to them and it is their right to decide how it is best to be used in the context of their overall mission.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,Okiemockbird
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 03:18 PM

Jack, the question remains: is bandwidth the real reason for kicking Napster from the university nets, or just a feeble excuse for knuckling under to the recording industry ?

However that may be, here is an article (about a year old) by Jaron Lanier entitled "Piracy is Your Friend". He holds that "The reason the Recording Industry Association of America and the labels are pushing anti-piracy laws and technologies has nothing to do with preventing piracy. They're doing it so that they can control the new digital music channels. To keep anyone else, like you, from sharing the power. They're doing it to rip you off. Period."

I disagree with Lanier on one point. Lanier seems to assume that recording music from the radio is copyright infringement. I think (but this is strictly private opinion, not legal advice) that in many cases private recording is either a fair use or is allowed by the "no action shall be brought" clause which deals explicitly with home recording. But everything I have been able to learn about the big record labels suggests that Lanier is right that the major labels often treat their artists badly. So I think he's probably right that artists wouldn't lose much if they could devise a way to work independently of the major labels. Whether any such experiments in marketing can succeed is far from certain. But I agree with Lanier that the experiment should be tried.

T.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: Ely
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 11:20 PM

Yes, kids will find a way around it, but no--I say don't let them.

My college banned MP3's a few weeks ago. They started out by asking people to reduce their downloading, or restrict it to the hours between 12 am and 2 am (sounds horrible, I know--but most of us are still up at that time, anyway). Of course, everyone assumed that everyone else was restricting their use, so nobody did. Computer services even sent personal emails to the students that were using the most bandwidth (to little or no avail). Our computer system is notoriously unreliable anyway, but it was found that a handful--literally--of people downloading MP3's was slowing computer service for the college population of 1500 down to a crawl.

I'm one of the worst music addicts I know, but I think it's entirely unnecessary for anyone to be using these programs on a regular basis--maybe if you're just *dying* to download some unreleased rarity. While the possibilities of copyright infringement, etc., bother me some, too, I mostly think it's very selfish and inconsiderate to block up everyone else's computer service so you can download the disco version of "Rubber Ducky". Yes, I've heard it.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,JulieF (at Work)
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 07:55 AM

I too have sympathy with the Universities. Our college is tied to the internet via the local university. Fortunately, most of our users are in a younger age group and our restrictions are levelled at their cruder curiosities. However, at lunch times our student Record and Library systems tend to slow down, especially at some of th outlying centres. Which fine unless your doing something like exam submissions. I haven't got into mp3 yet as it is something I would only access from home.

Julie

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: SDShad
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:23 PM

Well, I'm very far from being any kind of fan of the RIAA, NMPA, HFA, ASCAP, BMI, M-O-U-S-E, whatever, and I think that the lengths to which copyright law has been extended in recent decades borders on artistic fascism, and pose a very real threat to the folk process. I realize copying any CD you own for a friend is technically against copyright, but I don't really see what the stink is.

But that said, I also work in networking support on our campus's residence hall network. And while the people in the computing services department who track network traffic trends tell me that MP3/Napster/Imesh/etc. traffic aren't a deathly problem yet to our network, I've read some absolute horror stories in email from my counterparts at other Universities, where not just MP3 traffic (which includes local sharing over Network Neighborhood), but Napster traffic alone makes up upwards of 70% of network traffic. There's a huge difference between duping the odd tape for friends and family and slinging wholesale gigabytes of copyrighted material over a public network, and choking a network with same hardly seems to be in keeping with the network's educational mission.

I'm not nearly so concerned, to be honest, with the copyright issues involved, but the bandwidth issues are downright scary. I enjoy copping a song I've never heard as much as the next guy, though I can honestly say that the majority of my MP3s come from discs I own. But the story you relate, Ely, is pretty accurate. A large enough minority of students in residence halls swapping MP3s are greedy enough little bastards that they really don't care if they choke the campus network. This has the potential to seriously hamper student, faculty and staff educational use of the network, and that I don't much cotten to. And come to think of it, our network has a huge drop in performace every day at about 3:30 when the students are heading back to the halls in droves...so maybe we do have more of a problem here than the campus-wide networking folks seem to think.

Pardon my venting,

Shad

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: GUEST,Okiemockbird
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 01:22 PM

According to this story in Wired, Yale kicked Napster off its network in response to legal intimidation, not to conserve computing resources. It had already solved the resourse problem another way.

T.

Subject: RE: MP3 Ban
From: SDShad
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 02:12 PM

Yeah, but Okie, all that article said about prior action by Yale is "Prior to the lawsuit, Yale had restricted students' access to Napster during the week to relieve network congestion at the university." Doesn't say how they restricted it, doesn't say how well it worked, doesn't say it was "solved." Plenty of the so-called solutions that are being kicked around out there are really easy to work around. And however well the solution worked, it wasn't "another way," it was just an incremental version of what we're already talking about: banning Napster. Not that Yale's previous approach doesn't ahve some merit.

Now that's not to say that the threats of these lawsuits aren't real, and I'm sure that Wired's article is accurately portraying Yale's reasons for the full ban. But I'm in the trenches so far as Resnets go, and regularly communicate with others in the trenches, and I'm tellin' ya: when we say it's the bandwidth we're worried about, it's really the bandwidth we're worried about.

Resnets are being choked by Napster traffic out there. I think Napster's an insanely great little app, I use it myself in moderation (and sorry, but I don't share, I do just leech, precisely for bandwidth reasons), but when the decision comes down to recreational Napster use and the network as a whole, the decision for me isn't even close.

Shad