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BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?

Clinton Hammond2 03 Mar 00 - 11:01 AM
Steve Latimer 03 Mar 00 - 10:44 AM
GUEST,_gargoyle 02 Mar 00 - 11:14 PM
bflat 02 Mar 00 - 10:30 PM
Troll 02 Mar 00 - 10:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Mar 00 - 09:37 PM
GUEST,of a GUEST 02 Mar 00 - 09:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Mar 00 - 08:38 PM
kendall 02 Mar 00 - 07:59 PM
M. Ted (inactive) 02 Mar 00 - 06:29 PM
wysiwyg 02 Mar 00 - 05:50 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Mar 00 - 05:47 PM
wysiwyg 02 Mar 00 - 05:41 PM
canoer 02 Mar 00 - 05:39 PM
wysiwyg 02 Mar 00 - 05:36 PM
Clinton Hammond2 02 Mar 00 - 05:32 PM
wysiwyg 02 Mar 00 - 05:19 PM
canoer 02 Mar 00 - 05:16 PM
canoer 02 Mar 00 - 04:57 PM
GUEST 02 Mar 00 - 04:52 PM
wysiwyg 02 Mar 00 - 04:48 PM
canoer 02 Mar 00 - 04:44 PM
Lady McMoo 02 Mar 00 - 04:34 PM
wysiwyg 02 Mar 00 - 03:45 PM
Mooh 02 Mar 00 - 03:29 PM
BlueJay 02 Mar 00 - 02:01 PM
katlaughing 02 Mar 00 - 12:27 PM
JamesJim 02 Mar 00 - 12:19 PM
Midchuck 02 Mar 00 - 12:07 PM
Steve Latimer 02 Mar 00 - 11:45 AM
canoer 02 Mar 00 - 11:44 AM
M. Ted (inactive) 02 Mar 00 - 11:05 AM
Midchuck 02 Mar 00 - 10:58 AM
Mooh 02 Mar 00 - 10:32 AM
Peg 02 Mar 00 - 10:25 AM
Mooh 02 Mar 00 - 09:40 AM
katlaughing 01 Mar 00 - 10:59 PM
GUEST,of a GUEST 01 Mar 00 - 10:56 PM
GUEST,_gargoyle 01 Mar 00 - 08:43 PM
bob schwarer 01 Mar 00 - 05:52 PM
katlaughing 01 Mar 00 - 05:02 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Mar 00 - 04:49 PM
Amergin 01 Mar 00 - 03:55 PM
bob schwarer 01 Mar 00 - 03:31 PM
canoer 01 Mar 00 - 03:18 PM
katlaughing 01 Mar 00 - 03:03 PM
catspaw49 01 Mar 00 - 02:14 PM
canoer 01 Mar 00 - 02:08 PM
GUEST,aldus 01 Mar 00 - 02:00 PM
katlaughing 01 Mar 00 - 01:54 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 03 Mar 00 - 11:01 AM

I'm with Troll!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 03 Mar 00 - 10:44 AM

M. Ted,

I'm talking about the general availability and acceptance of handguns. Even though everything that led up to this was illegal including the fact that the gun used was stolen, it must have been originally purchased legally by a person who believes in the right to bear arms for whatever reason. They too probably went on about proper handling of weapons, teaching their children about handling guns safely etc., etc.

Long story short, this gun and thousands of others ended up stolen and in the hands of criminals. Do you really think that it wasn't replaced by the original owners only to start the cycle again?

We are supposed to admit to and learn from our mistakes, but in the case of guns too many people get up on their haunches and defend their constitutional right to these mistakes.

I have yet to see anyone say how their life has been improved by owning a handgun.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: GUEST,_gargoyle
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 11:14 PM

A lot of insight within this thread.

Well done PHOAKS!!


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: bflat
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 10:30 PM

There is the obvious tragedy of the death of the little girl. There is another in the future of the boy who shot her. A child of six years can't understand what happened and what would lie ahead. What will become of him? Must we loose two children? What are we going to do to teach: Thou shall not kill? Isn't this our responsibility? Isn't this as important an issue as any? Who can do it as well as the folk community that has always sung out when social change was needed? Write your songs and sing them!!!!

The following is an observation: My six year old grandson talks about Pokemon and riding his two wheeler and his guitar and his pets and maybe school. Now he's learning anger management in the classroom. To me it's a euphemism for teaching respect taught to me by my parents and my church. When I got to school I already knew how to behave. That's about it.

bflat


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Troll
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 10:01 PM

Praise,this is for you.I will post NO MORE on this thread because I can see it going nowhere but in the direction of hurt and bad feelings and I will not be a party to that.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 09:37 PM

"Three signs of a bad man: bitterness, hatred. cowardice."


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: GUEST,of a GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 09:27 PM

Dear GUEST thank you for the invite

Yes, I have Gibbon's "Decline" and also Darwin's "Origin"

Some things are flawed from the very start AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

~ A lopsided blow on bubble gum

~ A song quartet beginnning in simultaneous major and minor keys.

~ A six year old bully-beast.

In every case you perform retro-active-abortion.

When a product is inherently defective you destroy it.

According to the Michigan and Natural law the thing must be exterminated. Social-Darwinism demands that we remove the genes from the community pool. Let us shake the shackling leaches off and move forward.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 08:38 PM

Still more soapboxes.

The mind of a bigot is like the pupil,of the eye. The more light you pour into it, the more in contracts. Oliver Wendell Holmes said that.

Nobody ever changed their mind because they were beaten in an argument. I said that.

The Angel that presided oe'r my birth
Said "Little creature, form'd of Joy and Mirth,
"Go love without the help of any Thing on Earth."

William Blake said that.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: kendall
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 07:59 PM

Anyone ever read "The Decline And Fall of the Roman Empire?"


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 06:29 PM

Steve Latimer,

What on earth are you talking about? Nearly everything that happened in the chain of events that put that little boy in school with a loaded gun was against the law--and everthing that happened to put the little boy in the frame of mind to act as he did showed a blatant negligence of duty by everyone from the legal system to the school system, to the church and to the family--what do you need new rules for. when people don't follow the old ones--

Everyone else--

Do you really want to know what I think? I don't think that the world has gone crazy--I think it has been crazy all along, and that you all hide behind your piety and morality and pretend that this is happening because the world hasn't embraced your cause of the month--


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 05:50 PM

Peopkle who need peopkle... are the luckiest peopkle in the world.

OK, but a cheap joke to relieve tension was the best I could do, sorry!


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 05:47 PM

I don't think a wake is a place for a soapbox. Quiet puzzled discussion in between the songs and the stories, yes. But shouting and fighting, and trying to force other peopkle to agree with you, no.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 05:41 PM

c, you have just received the biggest smile of my day.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: canoer
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 05:39 PM

Well, I never said there weren't exceptions.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 05:36 PM

Still listening...


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 05:32 PM

Guest...

The child is NOT bing charged... and rightly so... but I think his parents and uncle should be taken out behind the barn and beat, or bitch-slapped from one coast to the other for letting this poor innocent grow up in such a shitty environment...

Ya need a licence to get a dog, but any meshback can have as many kids as they want... that ain't right! I'd love to live in a world where people would have to PROVE they are capable of being good parents before they are allowed to breed! It'd do wonders for North American Over-population... And our overall I.Q.'d shoot through the roof!

Good think I don't run the world eh!! LOL!!!

{~`


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 05:19 PM

Yes, canoer, I can hear it from many of the postings, even some of the most painful of them. I'm straining to hear it in ALL of them but in some of them it just isn't there, it's just shouting. Maybe it's there after they are done shouting, maybe they go hug their kids when they are done, but it's still shouting here where maybe something else would be more satisfying.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: canoer
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 05:16 PM

Mcmoo, such a basic question. I believe we over here feel threatened much more acutely than Europeans (at least some, maybe most) know. Occasionally my son's school has exchange students, sometimes exchange professors, from Britain, France, Denmark. We warn them very very strongly about where and when they can and can't go safely. The majority of them totally disbelieve us and go walking around wherever they want.

One day we are going to have a very tragic incident. But the point is: they don't believe it can possibly be as bad as we say it is. They just can't believe it.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: canoer
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:57 PM

Praise -- partly you need ears to hear it. Partly, just like the first-grader, we aren't well-developed in our ways of handling frustration. My 2 cents, anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:52 PM

THANKFULLY, a child can be charged with murder and tried as an adult in Michigan.

Justice will be served.

A 1997 law allows a child of any age who commits a serious felony to be prosecuted as an adult under certain conditions. A judge must consider the type of offense, the juvenile's previous criminal record, the child's understanding of the crime, culpability, level of participation and ability to assist an attorney in his defense.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:48 PM

Canoer,

How come that isn't coming through?


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: canoer
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:44 PM

Praise, dear, please consider that we are yelling and struggling just exactly because we love. We love our kids today and theirs of tomorrow and we desperately want them to have a better world. Just because we have different ideas about HOW -- we are still all very much together on the WHY. I believe.

--Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:34 PM

Just a question from a simple European... Knowing what guns are designed for, why would anybody in their right mind actually WANT to own or carry one?

Or am I just being plain stupid and missing something?

mcmoo


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 03:45 PM

Maybe if we can't sing about a subject, we aren't ready to be heard yet.

Some of you are shouting at each other, even if you didn't use all caps.

I am whispering the following, I just don't know how to make small italics yet.

This is not the most likely place to find your enemies.

My enemy is Evil. My Enemy's enemy is my friend.

Friends work together. They stand beside one another and face the enemy together. They don't waste time turning to yell at each other. They know and count on each other's best.

Again-- There are people all around each of us who are like this little boy and his parents. Your most powerful influence in the world is your ability to love.

Where is love like that reflected in this thread? I would like to stand beside it if I could see it among the yelling.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Mooh
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 03:29 PM

Peter/Midchuck, I read your comments with interest, and agreement, but I never implied that speed limits work. I happen to be one of those leftwingers who think cars are too many, too fast, too dirty, and too seductive, much like sugar, sex, guitars and guns. The difference for me is, like cars, guns can be controlled, and should be controlled more, everywhere! Like some other contributors to this thread, I've got kids, and no guns. They don't go together. You are right, hypocracy rules, but it doesn't have to. Thanks for your ear. Mooh


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: BlueJay
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 02:01 PM

I tend to agree with you, Kat. I don't have guns, but have enjoyed shooting sports at times. Mostly I just don't think about them much. I'm not too concerned with wackos,(neither jackbooted government thugs, nor terrorists), coming for me and my family. I'm fairly moderate in all this, and I think BOTH sides tend to go too far. I want the right to buy a gun should the desire arise, and I would not mind in the slightest registering it or waiting a few hours or days for a background check. And I bet if it came to a popular vote on all the choices, there are a LOT more people like me, than on both extremes of the issue. Hug your kid. Take an interest. Raise them with compassion and they'll be alright. Moderation in all things. As for self defense, Maybe I'll get a concealed weopon permit. I don't have a gun, but in my small town, word will travel fast that I have a permit, so no one should hassle me *BG*.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 12:27 PM

It goes way beyond mass media and poverty. The children killed and their killers, in Columbine, were white and middle class, as were most of the other victims of school shootings in America. It starts at home, either through neglect of poverty OR wealth, indifference, prejudice, violence, and a myriad of other negative influences. The first six years of a child's life are the most important for their development, not just physically, but mentally and emotionally.

We tell parents they have to have their child safely restrained in a car; we take their children away if they hit them or toehrwise are negligent. We do not allow operation of a vehicle without a license obtained through testing and then, no one can drive a car without proper inspections and licensing. While I doubt that this country will ever embrace total eradication of guns, it is not unreasonable to expect the same rigorous requirements for owning one.

America is such a huge country, with so many people of such diverse backgrounds, we will probably never agree on these types of social/emotional issues, but while we debate and struggle towards a resolution, another child, parent, brother, sister, etc. gets killed.

My dad said once, after a school shooting, that if the teacher had been allowed to have a gun in their desk, they would have been able to stop the killing. I do not agree. I don't think teachers should have to be policepersons in their own schools, and, if that ever happens, I do believe the teacher would be villified for shooting a child. That scenario could lead to a mistaken shooting such as Amadou Diallo.

Society is evolving and I pray that there will come a time when fearful people will not feel the need for weapons.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: JamesJim
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 12:19 PM

One could have predicted where this thread would lead and how long it would be. Passions run deep, especially where small, innocent, defenseless children are involved. Sadly, both children fit that catagory and I believe we should be praying for both.

When I saw in the paper that the young boy lives in a "flop house," where drug dealers come and go and where guns are left about like candy, it all began to come into focus. It's a clear indication of where the problem lies. I truly do not know, but I would have to wonder how many of our neighbors (other countries)have a similar drug problem. I sincerely believe we could confiscate all guns on any kind and size, but as long as we continue to have a drug problem, senseless killing will continue in the U.S. What is the answer? I wish I knew, but I doubt that it has a lot to do with guns. Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Midchuck
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 12:07 PM

As they are in my own life. I live in the only state in the US where I can carry a handgun, openly or concealed, whenever I want, with no permit of any sort. There are simply no legal restrictions.

I own handguns, and know how to shoot them. But I don't carry one simply because there's no need. I've never been seriously threatened with any sort of violence, beyond that of a stupid drunk in a bar, in my adult life. Vermont, with some of the most free-and-easy gun laws in the country, has the third lowest per capita violent crime rate of any state in the country, after the two Dakotas, last I checked. The annual homicides in Vermont would equal one weekend with a full moon in any large US city. (And more of them involve rifles or shotguns than handguns. Or parents shaking their babies too hard, to stop them crying...)

Yet if I lived in a major city, I'd feel a real need to carry, and couldn't, legally, because I would need a permit that I'd have to have friends in high places, or know the right person to bribe, to get.

Two other thoughts. Switzerland and Mexico. Switzerland has a 100% militia. Everyone's got a gun in the house. And ammo. But the murder rates are as low as other european countries with no guns. Because everyone is trained in proper use of those guns, and the country does not have a culture that glorifies violence. In Mexico, guns are restricted, and most people are too poor to afford them anyway. But they manage a murder rate to rival the US's, making do almost entirely with knives.

The number of guns in the US is a symptom, not a cause, of the culture of violence. The mass media, and the number of people who are poor and can't get out of the poverty cycle, are the causes.

Ask a doctor about treating symptoms rather than illnesses.

I'll climb off the soapbox yet again. But I'll get back on as often as I see simplistic solutions to complex problems.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 11:45 AM

M. Ted,

I too am a father of two small children. I sure feel the pain of the families who have lost, I have visions of my own children as the victims.

I very rarely get on a soapbox, but in answer to your question, proper legislation WOULD have kept this from happening.

I'm not saying that this could never happen to my children, sure there are criminals in Canada with guns, there is always the risk of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But the chance of us ever having a gun effect our lives are so slight that they are incalculable.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: canoer
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 11:44 AM

One of the problems of living in a very rich and technologically over-advanced country is that we tend to expect instant answers. Instant coffee. Instant frozen dinners. Instant communication. But I seriously doubt we'll get instant answers on this one. Gun control? The gun was a stolen gun, traded for crack at the boy's 'home.'

I am surprised that so little has been said about poverty and its attendant degradations. If once in a while a middle class person is murdered, the murder rate in poorest areas is more on the order of a war zone. For a myriad of reasons … and all based on (enforced) poverty. IMNSHO. Fix that instantly. Anyone?


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 11:05 AM

I haven't stopped crying since I heard about this--grew up in Michigan, had friends from Mt Morris, have a little girl who goes to off to school every morning, been to the McDonald's in Wilkinsburg (I saw it on TV)

I am totally fed up with the sanctimonious among you, who look at this as an opportunity to stand on a soapbox and tout your favorite cause, as well as the moralizers, and the finger pointers (especially those of you who are proud not to be Americans at a time like this)--

Don't you think that I as a father, saw my own little girl lying on the cold floor, slowing bleeding to death?

Don't you think that the little boy is my own child, as well? His father taken away from him, evicted from his home, his mother forced to leave him, and his brother, with an uncle who lived in a crack house?

Don't you think I feel his anger?

Why do you keep insulting me? Do you think that I am so stupid as to believe he didn't act out of anger? Do you think I will believe you when you say that violence on TV is to blame? Or that the proper legislation would have kept this from happening?

I sometimes believe that we are not really able to think, or even really feel at all--it occasionally crosses my mind that the inquisitors were right, and we are only puppets whose words and actions are controlled by demons--


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Midchuck
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 10:58 AM

"Controlling guns ain't any different than controling highway speeds, ya know. It's all designed to protect us all."

And would work just about as well. Have you compared numbers of auto deaths to numbers of gun deaths recently? Even in the "gun-crazy" US?

Yes, a lot more people concede that cars are necessary than that guns are necessary. But are cars capable of 120+ miles per hour necessary in a country where the max speed limit is about 75? And does anybody agitate seriously for horsepower limits or speed governors?

Hypocrisy rules!

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Mooh
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 10:32 AM

Further to my last rant...We Canadians were shocked when we heard of our own school shooting last year, and you know, the dead kid was the son of a minister in that town. Fifty years ago my Dad was in that minister's job, so the shooting had this earie sort of twist for me. Controlling guns ain't any different than controling highway speeds, ya know. It's all designed to protect us all. My last word on this, I hope. Love your neighbour.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Peg
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 10:25 AM

thanks Mooh.
Peg
ugly American who wants to beautify the impression the world has of us


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Mooh
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 09:40 AM

Please don't shoot me for this... Much is made of the Americanization of the world through various media. I'm no American, and Americans from this vantage point should not be proud of the "example" they set for the world to follow by supporting the right to kill each other, which is what bearing arms has become. What of peace, love and understanding? If you melted down all your guns maybe you could make enough prison bars to surround the people who contribute to your mass communal suicide. You'd seriously rather let people kill each other rather than allowing peace to reign? I'm not asking you to give up anything else besides premature death. In the meantime I pray your descendants will read their history and say "What was THAT all about?" Guns are not knowledge, faith, kindness, phallic symbol, hair or breast implant, or logical. Oh yeah, and get this straight, Guns AND people kill people! Quit making excuses. Presidents and school children, family and strangers for heaven's sake, what are you thinking? You'd all be alot easier to love if some of you weren't such a threat. Love your neighbour. Love, Your Neighbour.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 10:59 PM

Time to change the litter box, again.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: GUEST,of a GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 10:56 PM

Six Year Old Black Boy Kills White Child

Black Man's Rampage Kills Six White People

thinking......

.............................Thinking

............................................................Thinking

Welcome to: Supper-Mud-Cat-Fish Who Wants to Be A MudPuppyYour Choices Are::::???????

A. Coon Songs..... Create Coon Rage

B. Coon Skin Caps are best for haberdashery

C. There is More Than One Way to Skin a Cat

D. Move to Wyoming - No friends, Lots of Guns, No Life, Lots of Anger


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: GUEST,_gargoyle
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 08:43 PM

Why would you "copyright" such "clap-trap?"

Why Did YOU start this thread - HERE???

Verdict is IN

Childs' innocent - Laugh Cat's GUILTY!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: bob schwarer
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 05:52 PM

Well our local news had a woman on who said the Pittsburg fellow was just after white people. This guy is trying to start a race war.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 05:02 PM

Thanks, Kevin, thoughful as always and a beautiful song that does seem very fitting and appropriate. Helps to let the tears flow.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 04:49 PM

I remember seeing some children, about 9 or 10 years old, playing in the woods near where I live. They were playing with toy guns. One of the boys was telling another one off - saying something like this: "Look, you're supposed to shoot people with your gun, not hit them with it. If you use it to hit him you might hurt him."

Most of the time children can distinguish real from pretend, in real life. But most of the time isn't all the time. I doubt if running around shouting bang bang desensitises children to violence. Maybe watching movies with special effects might. And paradoxically enough, so can movies which sanitise the effects of being shot.

Children kill people in two sets of circumstances:

There are the tragic accidents - maybe with a gun that's been left lying around, maybe a car, maybe something poisonous, or a fall from some seemingly safe place.

And there are the occasions where children set out to kill, maybe, one hopes, with some confusion about how real is real, but in some cases with full intention. In England the case of the two boys whom killed little James Bulger fall into that category. And this case, where the little boy who did the killing was hardly older than James Bulger appears to have been another.

Desperately sad, and fortunately very rare, in young children anyway. But casting around for someone to blame doesn't help. What is needed is explanations, and understanding of what had gone wrong, and of the lessons to be learnt from something that can't be undone.

What we get instead are people looking for someone to blame and turning their backs on the circumsances that damaged young children so badly they could do something like that.

Sp we see mobs of screaming people virtually calling for 10 year old children to be lynched (as in Lioverpool at the time of the James Bulger trial); vengeful talk about parents who have failed to carry the responsibility they should, for all kinds of reasons; anger at the gun lobby, who are more a symptom of a sick society than a cause of it. (There are gun lobbies everywhere - in most places they are just a fringe set of hobbyists, a bit like like trainspotters or morris dancers.)

Getting angry doesn't help in these kinds of circumstances. We probably can't help but talk it through, even when it might be better to leave it alone right now, as Amergin suggests. What is needed in this kind of situation is first to mourn, then to find out the facts, find out what might help; then to do it.

I don't know why. but this seems fitting. Put it with "the teddy bears, the flowers, the notes, the crayon pictures, to say goodbye and ease our grief" :

My heart is joyful,
My heart flies away singing,
Under the trees of the forest,
Forest our home and our mother.
In my net I have caught
A little bird.
My heart is caught in the net,
In the net with the bird.

This comes from a book on my shelf next to the computer called "The Unwritten Song" - an anthology of "Poetry of the primitive and traditional peoples of the world", edited by Willard Trask. It's from West Africa, and its "A song sung by a woman while giving birth". From a pygmy community.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: Amergin
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 03:55 PM

Just a shout into the ocean's searching crests.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: bob schwarer
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 03:31 PM

I hear you, Troll. Our Gang in DC pass laws that they have no intention of enforcing. Pass laws and make the masses feel good. It's as if they are hoping for more shootings so they can pass more feel-good laws and score more points. "Look what a good job I'm doing".

Me cynical? Nah, not me. Just the reality.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: canoer
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 03:18 PM

Not bad Spaw --

"THE COUNTRY HAS GONE BATS."

Swings, doesn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 03:03 PM

Dammit, one is dead and the others are critical. What the fuck is wrong with this country??? You are right, Spaw, bats it is.

Larry C, you are welcome, I like that image of us putting up the mementos. Good luck with cool heads all round at work.

I am sorry phoaks, this is just insane. Like Peg I grew up shooting and am very familiar with guns, had the same rules about not pointing toy guns, etc., but the world has changed. It is not safe to have such widespread gun ownership anymore. And, now we will foot the bill to support the bastard who did this today for the rest of his miserable life.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 02:14 PM

Well the guy in Pittsburgh was just taken into custody. 5 people shot and in critical condition, possibly 1 already dead.........wonder how this would've played out with a ball bat?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: canoer
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 02:08 PM

Nope, that's why I was careful to say it's drawn from context. But the context is so familiar. As reported: The kid's father and grandfather and uncle are doing or have done time. The home is a drug house "flophouse" as reported by the neighbors. It is in the poorest part of town. The kid is neglected, prone to violence, one of the "seen it coming" types. The uncle interviewed has a first name in a style common to black people around here, as is the name of the neighbor interviewed.

I don't for one minute believe that that description definitively excludes everyone but a black family (broken family in this case) -- but the names, i think, ice the cake. AND DO I EVER HOPE I AM WRONG! I'm going to work in a few minutes, where I've been for 27 years, 60 miles south of Flint, a thoroughly integrated work force -- and I don't wanna have to deal with this, not at all. But it would be foolish not to be ready.

By the way -- kat -- thanks for putting this online. I think we are doing just what others do -- pile up the teddy bears, the flowers, the notes, the crayon pictures, to say goodbye and ease our grief. We just can't go to Flint to do it.

Larry C.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: GUEST,aldus
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 02:00 PM

There is not a nation on earth that does not have a problem with handguns...there is not a democratic nation which has as a big a problem as the USA... We do not possess poison for the purpose of sport, we do not race cars on city streets for "fun",we do not allow children access to things that harm them...but we teach them to shoot at age five and brag about how responsible we are.....What is wrong in America.


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Subject: RE: BS: In today's news - rant - how many more?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Mar 00 - 01:54 PM

And that should read "from the pain and horror." Sorry...


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