Sometimes goes limp (bow hair)

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: rangeroger
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 02:06 AM

What's fun is when you mix Klezmer music with Bluegrass.You can really get some interesting juxtapositions.
Years ago at Stawberry Music Fest.,we had several Klezmer musicians who loved to jam with anyone.We would trade songs and licks.
First Klezmer then Bluegrass. You've never lived till you've heard a Trombone or accordion break on Foggy Mountain Breakdown.
rr

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 02:26 AM

No, troll, Sorch'a planning her trop to see me!

Sorcha-- PA, not NY

rangeroger-- come to me!! Must have klezmer!!

Everyone-- has this become the klezmer thread? Are all who are concerned about limpness closet klezmerers? Or does klezmerism cure limpsickness?

Teach me your klezmer jargon!! Klezmer!! Must have!!

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 05:03 AM

I thought klezmer was just country and western with a shrug and a snip..... maybe I've been hanging around the wrong musicians.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 08:51 AM

LOL!!!

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 08:53 AM

Wait-- LTS-- took that to its logical conclusion, and no longer LOL.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Troll
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:57 AM

Oh LTS, I LOVE it! I'll have to tell the rest of the band at our next rehersal.

troll ROTF

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 05:30 PM

but what about the limp bow???? do we just play klezmer till it's ready to go again?

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Hardiman the Fiddler
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 10:44 PM

It's either play klezmer, or apply vibrato!

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Troll
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 10:57 PM

Klezmer fiddling does not utilize vibrato,believe it or not. It uses a technique that produces a similar effect but if you want an explaination of the technique, you'll have to talk to my son. He's the fiddler. I'm just the banjo player and chief roady.

If you want to know more about Klezmer music, do a web search for Ari's Klez Shack. Ari Davidow maintains a web site devoted to the subject.

troll--- who keeps wondering what a good wasp boy is doing in a Klezmer band in the first place

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 11:02 PM

I have just sort of picked this up by listening to Klez Conservatory. I bend the notes using a VERY slow vibrato type movement with my wrist, no arm vib at all.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 11:03 PM

Hardiman, Troll,

Clearly this is moving in the right direction.

God Bless Thread Creep.

Klezmer music and limp bows, vibrato, no vibrato....

This calls for synthesis of thought.

OK. Here it is... I usually sing but apparently this will call for a hum job.

Must have klezmer!!!!

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: rangeroger
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 11:08 PM

Praise,
I'm glad Troll answered the klezmer stuff.I really only played it a few times over a couple of festivals.The people who were playing it quit coming to the festval, and I haven't found anyone else yet.
Had a whole bunch of fun with it as I mentioned before.
So it's true that fiddlers don't need batteries for their vibrato.
rr

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 11:17 PM

rr,

Well I don't know that many fiddlers. Better ask Sorcha, too. BTW she gives good klezmer.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 11:25 PM

What you want to do is sound like a waa-waa clarinet, does that make sense? Praise, I thought you went to bed!

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 11:28 PM

Well H pushed me off my cookie so I went to read and thought I would be chauffering kidlets, but they aren't ready to end the lip lock yet. So I came back!

No, that isn't right. I went to read since kids weren't ready and H took shameless advantage of my rtemporary absence and corrupted the cookie...

No... OK, I admit it, he's getting as addicted as I am. I did have to go lie down but I was amazed he stayed online, see what he posted in the Advice thread, excellent stuff. I knew he was really a Mudcatter all along.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Troll
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 11:29 PM

Sorcha---As I understand it,The technique is done by noting with one finger and placing the NEXT finger against the noting finger. You then rock the hand so the non-noting finger lightly hits the noted string. So it's very similar to regular hand vibrato but it uses two fingers almost like a trill. I know the explaination is confusing but it's the best I can do. At this time, I don't believe that an instruction book on Klezmer fiddle exists though I have heard that one is in the works. Mostly, you pick it up from other players. If you are interested, I will be happy to talk to my son. He may be able to teach it via computer. It's a cinch I can't.

Praise---Did you go to our web site? Or is the thought of seeing real klezmorim a little too much to take on an empty stomach?

love

troll

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:32 AM

Troll,

Your description to Sorcha sounds a lot like a gesture I have often seen men (boys) use when conveying to each other their appreciation of a pretty girl passing by.

So is Klezmer anything like schwing dancing?

Can a shiksa be safe at your site? I didn't get there yet, but I am going as soon as I build up the appropriate level of....

Well I'll be sure to take Hardiman along.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Mbo
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:40 AM

Ooohh...lip locks? I could use one o' those right about now! Though I'm not sure I could do it right..I've never kissed anyone before....oops or was that lip lochs?

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Troll
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:47 AM

How safe do you want to be?

I'm a goy and I have no problems. Of course, since both my Wife and son are Jewish, I guess I can qualify as a blue-eyed cousin.*BG*

Nope. Nothing like schwing. More like moshing without the body contact if you can imagine that.Lots of circle type dances and follow-the -leader stuf. It's a lot of fun.Well over half of our e-mail list are goyem. Go figure!

troll

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:52 AM

I fpound your pic, I think, and also found:

Thread of Blue is an 18 piece Klezmer band in Newark, Delaware. We are affiliated with Temple Beth El, Possum Park Road, Newark, DE. Have been together almost two years. Directed by Michael Zinn, Ph.D., Professor of Music at The University of Delaware, Newark, DE.

NOTE THE ADDRESS.....

And Mbo-- there is a Bulgar Brothers or something or other klezmer band!

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 02:16 PM

I guess Spaw never did find this thread. Oh well, let's have a refresh for another related question asked in the threads today.

~S~

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 03:53 PM

WYSIWYG -

The thread never died: - we just need a new (or maybe additional) direction for the creep to keep it going. Since I don't do well with inuendo, and can't think of anything very clever, I'll respond to the original post and the early "serious" replies.

Any of us with some camping experience in wet weather have probably seen the "overnight disassembly" of instruments left out in reasonably protected places, like under the camper or hidden under a tarp. This can happen with high humidity and cool nights even without actual "rainfall."

This happened to one person of my acquaintance at two separate years' sessions at Winfield. One year he left a relatively old "beater" fiddle under a table (which was under a canopy) and found it "took apart" in the morning. A couple of years later he left a fairly nice guitar tucked under his camper, and found several very large "additional acoustic resonator" points in the morning. The guitar was repaired, but I believe the fiddle is still somewhere "in a box."

I have not heard of much significant damage from playing in "drizzly" weather, or under canopies during rainfall; but the people with the "good" instruments tend to be pretty cautious. It is critical that the instrument be dried of any visible moisture before it's put away, and that it be put in as near to an "indoor" space as is available. (Even in a tent, the "body heat" from the occupant(s) probably helps, so that's likely to be better than a protected "outside" space. The higher humidity due to occupancy is probably less damaging than the outside "dew.")

If possible, a "wet" instrument should be put where there's some air circulation; but sometimes it's best to put even a wet one in a case because of the other "hazards of camp life."

Any camper with some experience can attest to the difficulty of drying things by a campfire. Combustion produces a lot of water vapor, and the relative humidity near a fire is often much higher than a little distance away. The familiar odor of burnt tenny-runners on sleeping campmates also testifies to the difficulty of obtaining predictably uniform heating of anything using campfire heat.

And don't forget that wet hair and strings may contract significantly when they "stabilize" to new conditions - and the glue may be softened by the wetness, so loosening things up before putting them away may be advisable.

Wet weather is an ENEMY of wooden instruments. Sometimes the enemy can be defeated - other times it's best to run away.

John

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 03:55 PM

Thanks, John.

~S~
(formerly known here as "Praise", if that helps any of the above posts make more sense)

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Willie-O
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 04:30 PM

Well isn't this fascinating.

Now, I know Wysi was originally using the handle Praise, which is why folks address her as such in this Year 2000 thread...umm, but why are all yer "From:"s credited to "WSIWYG"? My pre-Willie-O threads still have my old name on them (my real one). When did you change your handle? I'm all baffled, which ain't saying much.

Also, is it too late for me to take exception to Lady McMoo's comment of March 1 00?

To answer the original question, my practical suggestion (same as on Marion's parallel thread du jour): switch to melodica.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: MMario
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 04:34 PM

if you change your handle on an existing account - any of the places that are auto-filled (life the "from") change.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 06:06 PM

This would happen to me all the time when playing my musical saw. My answer for the problem was to junk my good fiddle bow and even the artificially haired bow. I took a curved stick that I found in the alley behind our house in Chicago and put a notch in each end. Then I took a length of nylon clothesline, the thin kind that you might use to open your drapes. I put a knot in both ends of that string, put an end of the string in each notch so the tension caused the nylon string to be somewhat taut. After rosining up the string, I never had this problem again.

I heartily suggest you all replace your fancy bows with this type of bow abd your problems will simply become moot points. And if a rabbit or a deer comes skulking close by, you can use your bow to secure meat that might last you and the family quite a long time. Jus remember, arrows with moot points do not work well at all. Just a little word to the wise...from

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 06:11 PM

SOMETIMES goes limp????? Good heavens man, thank your luck stars. If it didn't, you'd never get any rest!!!!!!!

Signed,
well rested

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 06:14 PM

I was trying to answer seriously, but obviously, doing that is way beyond Guest's capabilities.

Art

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 10:04 PM

***BIG BMILE*** (Just thought I'd best explain.)

Art

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 11:28 PM

A serious answer.....well, you know. Really, a 'space blanket' or the silver surgical covers will help. I carry one in my gear bag all the time. Helps with all extremes, in the case or out.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:10 AM

Really... what size then dearie? She sez BLANKET size, OK, iffen you sez so... ;~)

~S~

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:55 AM

Well, the 'freebie' surgical blankets are all 'one size fits none' as far as I can tell.............but they will fit all instrument cases. Go to your 'local' hospital and ask for one. They are about 6'long and 4' wide with a scoop out for a human neck. The throw away surg. blankets are basically paper but a real Space Blanket is woven with bound edges. Maybe kinda pricey, but a real deal. They come in several sizes I think. Wrap the instrument/case with silver side out to reflect light/heat/etc. Silver side in to retain heat.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: open mike
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 02:03 AM

there is a case which is made from quilted metalic
fabric which looks a great deal like a fire fighters'
survival tent which we carry on our belts for safety.
instruemnt case to provide insulation from heat cold
and moisture. it is called a climate case . they
used to be made in nevada city or grass valley calif.
a good solution to extra protection for you r instrument.
it only works when it is in the case though.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: open mike
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 02:05 AM

old fashioned nyckelharpa bows were
not made to have an adjusting screw
the tension was adjusted by holding
on to the bow hair with the hand or
thumb and holding tension by squeezing.
must have made the hand tired quickly
or made yoiu extra strong

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 02:51 AM

Oh, like a Baroque viol bow. I did that once, not easy, but do-able. Also, check out Mark Leaf cases--great for pros and others who travel a lot or do multiple temp/humidity stuff. Pretty pricey though.

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 06:41 AM

Even though the original question was asked over 3 years ago, perhaps Hariman still has problems with his bow, or perhaps others do.

I haven't had a bow with tension problems that wasn't a bad bow. You get good wood (or a synthetic bow), properly haired, and it won't go limp. They'll get a bit flaccid, but there's still room to tighten them up.

However, one time when I was playing out on Annamill's dock on the river at night, I had a major problem with the humidity negating the effects of the rosin. It was as if someone lubricated my bow hair. I didn't, and still don't, have a clue what to do about that besides applying fresh rosin every 20 minutes or so. Or: play indoors (not as much fun) or switch to a non-friction dependant instrument such as pennywhistle.

WYS, I'd think you could make little bags for things with 1) a space blanket, 2) scissors, and 3) some environmentally stable glue. I don't think duct tape would work for this, but I haven't tried it.

(Art: "arrows with moot points" - **double-take/chuckle/shaking of head**)

Subject: RE: Sometimes goes limp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Jan 05 - 10:25 PM

refresh