OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th

Subject: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 11:42 PM

(this stuff?) and why? Wanna tell us, Guest? Just the dumb question of the day...........

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: ddw
Date: 03 Mar 00 - 12:21 AM

Maybe the guest just isn't bright enough to spell his name right — shouldn't it be goof?

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Mar 00 - 12:26 AM

Or maybe Ga(r)g? Come out, come out where ever you are....Double Dog Dare Ya!

As with any kind of flaming or trolling, the best response it to ignore it. A thread like this just encourages more.
-Joe Offer, adding to an existing post so I don't bring the thread to the top-

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Lor
Date: 03 Mar 00 - 11:07 PM

maybe it was (little ole) me? I'm very new here -- have been lurking & enjoying all that I've had time to read since stumbling here by accident a short while back. I did hit the refresh button (don't know why). Did I mess everyone up? If it was me, I do most sincerely apologize. I'm not sure how all this works. I like pushing buttons. Can't fathom that my buttons would affect a whole message board...though if that's the way this board is set up, I will choose very carefully the buttons to push and the ones to leave alone! :) Cheers to all, ~Lor.

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Mbo
Date: 03 Mar 00 - 11:21 PM

Don't worry Lor! We have some folks who like to clog the board by refreshing big threads...sometimes we assume it's trouble makers, without leaving room for someone making an innocent slip. Anyway, it's nice to have you in our little community, strange though we may be. You should go over to the "Welcome New Members" thread and sign yourself in, and receive the warm welcome you deserve!

--mbo

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Mar 00 - 11:25 PM

Lor, you didn't do it with the refresh button on your browser. You have hit the "send" button down there at the bottom, and the person who refreshed all those threads was aware they were doing so. Usually, there's a reason for it, such as someone asking about a previous discussion. Please continue to read, post, and push buttons without guilt.

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Lor
Date: 03 Mar 00 - 11:45 PM

whew! It gives me great comfort to know that I didn't walk in here like, say, Forest Gump, and change the course of your most intriguing entertaining posts.

Thanks, Mbo, for your kind suggestion to go to the welcome thread. Thing is, I'm no musician, not a brilliant or clever writer, or even know much about this folk-thingy-stuff. I'm really here to learn and because I know what I like when I see it and I like it here!

Maybe I can be the audience? I'm a big-time clapper & like to hoot & holler (at the appropriate times, of course). ;) ~Lor.

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 06:44 AM

I dislike multi-refreshing with the sole purpose to make other threads less visible, whether it is done by GUESTs or by members.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: JudeL
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 06:56 AM

It depends, on what thread you are trying to sink - sometimes if it is makes an offensive thread drop off the bottom I make absolutely no apology for refreshing others so they are visable but the offensive one isn't.

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 07:29 AM

The only way to make an offensive thread drop to the bottom is to ignore it. It only takes one post to bring it back to the top. What would happen if each time it came back, somone chose to refresh a number of threads to move it back down? The end result would IMO be far more annoying than the offensive thread which I've probably already decided to ignore - besides that, if a flamer/troller realised that tactic was used, you are granting them even further power to annoy others - it could become a game!

Another thing to consider is that we collectively make the popularity of threads. Perhaps if we could understand why flaming/trolling threads seem to hold so much fascination round here, we could make better progress.

Jon

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 08:55 AM

Another thing is that, no matter what's on top of a thread, it doesn't drop off the list until no one's posted to it for 24 hours.

If the thread is refreshed by everyone whose need to add a comment is greater than their possible concern about breathing life into an offensive thread, it's going to keep it in everyone's face.

Someone once said the internet is a "write-only medium." I think they were talking about newsgroups, but it holds true here. People don't come to read what others have written so much as air their own views. People have to have their say, and often don't consider the possibility of keeping quiet for the greater good of the place. "Don't tell me not to post - I have a right." Fine, but every now and then, we can tell ourselves to not post and just walk on by.

I can generally refrain from posting to offensive threads. Every now and then, there's an exception, and I post. I think most folks are the same way. There are enough of those exceptions to keep offensive threads alive.

It seems like the most effective way to kill threads is to simply beat them to death. I find threads about the "same shit/different day" a lot easier to ignore than others. Sometimes I'm tempted to re-post the same opinion I've posted 10 times before, and sometimes I do, but it's a lot easier to resist that temptation than the lure of something new.

Back to the refreshing of inoffensive threads in reaction to offensive threads: it smacks of a sort of mild panic reaction. It's still a reaction to trolls, and a reaction is what they're after. "What can I make those people do?" Well, besides saying "to hell with everyone else" and posting our $.02, we can start new threads: "garbadge dumping" ones, or ones with silly or sarcastic titles, or threads about how great Mudcat is. This is still a reaction, and it continues the disruption.

I still love it here. I love the friends I've made. I love discussions about music, and I enjoy many of the positive discussions and the ones not born of negativity. The problem I have these days is all the threads about Mudcat itself. I'm not sure quite why we all spend so much time talking about the place instead of engaging in the discussion most of us came here for. It's like we're all fascinated by contemplating a great cyber-navel. And I'm doing it NOW!!!

So anyway, I'll wander off now, and try to remember that having something to say and having the right to say it shouldn't be the only reasons I post it. I need to consider whether other folks need or want to hear it.

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: GeorgeH
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 10:39 AM

Lor, you can't refresh a thread by hitting the Refresh button, so don't worry!

G.

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: LR Mole
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 10:52 AM

Lor, welcome. There is no bell without the clapper.Myself, I push the "Refresh" button and this thing squirts water at me.

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From:
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 11:04 AM

Welcome Lor, I'm no musician either. Not much of a singer (prefer to sing WITH others in a chorus), and do all the clapping as well.

So, welcome and enjoy the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: SharonA
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 11:18 AM

Welcome, Lor! Yeah, the only thing the "Refresh" button does is to refresh your screen, to show you the threads containing material posted over the last 24 hours (or 3 days or longer, as you choose those time periods from the pop-up menu next to the "Refresh" button).

The term "refreshing a thread" is used to refer to the posting of a message onto a thread for the purpose of bringing that thread to the top of the Forum's list of threads (notice that the threads with the most recent posts are at the top of the list).

There's lots more about this, and many more informative tidbits, in the FAQ if you care to wade through the whole thing and read it top to bottom. You can find the FAQ at the very top of the Forum's thread list.

And by the way, music appreciation is definitely appreciated here! Holler away!!!

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 11:25 AM

Erm...Lor's post is dated 3 Mar 00.

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 03:00 PM

There are several things going on here; let's untangle them a bit.

One was that when this thread was made, there was some anonymous renewing of threads done just to troll. Not even worth discussing.

Then there are refreshes of unanswered music threads-- I often do that as a Guest (and have notified Joe Offer) because I do not need a number of non-content posts turning up in my post count. I refresh them as a courtesy to the people whose requests are about to vanish, and I try to remember to do it each time I go offline for a bit. It will have been noticed I am sure that these are almost invariably music threads.

Then there are a number of people, sometimes inckuding myself, who refresh old GOOD music threads when things get tense. I can only say why I do it, and no one has ever asked me or commented privately-- I do this with name showing so if it was a concern I think a PM might have been in order. Anyway, I don't do it to "control" the thread list or "push" a thread down, altho maybe in the past when I was newer to the net, that might have been part of it.

I do it because I see that I (and lots of others) have forgotten our good sense, and are no longer ignoring the threads meant to cause upset. I do it like a dog who has jumped into the wrong ditch might shake off raw sewage. It's a way of saying, "Oh! What was I thinking! Let's change the subject and discuss MUSIC." It's a return to what I think most of us agree is our best Mudcat-selves-- our musical selves. And I am not such an expert in music that I always feel confident about starting a music thread, so I refresh a good one.

And sometimes I do it because I am thinking of the newer members and the lurkers who must think the forum has lost its collective mind-- a collective mind it does not even actually have, but that new people think it does. It's a way of saying, "Relax, there is an alternative to this crap, come on in HERE."

Another thing I do, and I suspect others do, is that when I am researching something, and looking at a long thread list, sometimes I will see something wonderful-looking that I had never read before. I will open these and look, and if they are as good as they look I will bring them back for new members to enjoy.

One of the outcomes of these practices has been that these refreshed threads then take hold once more. Especially with the unanswered requests-- because as has been acknoewledged, a lot of people do not even open threads unless they have at least ten posts. Once they hit ten, they sometimes really take off. And I would have to admit this is true for me too-- a title that holds no attraction starts to look interesting after seeing it for several days, and curiosity has led me into some of the best threads we have had here.

I am posting this not to engage in debate, but to give information, and I will not be looking for replies here. If someone is having a problem with my posting practices, I will anticipate a private conversation about it, and I will discuss anything with someone who is interested in a two-way conversation.

~Susan

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 03:15 PM

I have refreshed threads for the same reasons as WYSYG, I always use my name(I am not sure how to post as a Guest anyway!) As far as I know me refreshing threads only caused a poblam once, and I apologised to the person who was offended both by PM and in the thread.Cheers.john

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: GUEST,Kramer
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 03:17 PM

This thread reminds me of a Seinfeld episode.

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: SharonA
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 03:32 PM

Oh. Well, Lor's still welcome! :^) This points out one disadvantage of refreshing an old thread: failure to recognize it as an old thread! Hopefully our advice will still be helpful to some newbie.

So, lemme get this straight. Wolfgang refreshed this thread to tell us that he dislikes multi-refreshing? *BG* Sorry, Wolfgang, I guess some of us missed the point.

Re multi-refreshing: I suppose that the healthiest alternative to multi-refreshing (that would still serve the purpose of "burying" flame-threads far down the Forum's thread list) would be for the members to start new music-thread discussions and be more active in existing discussions on other current threads that have nothing in common with the flame-threads. Meanwhile we must be steadfast in our refusal to react to flamers and trolls wherever they appear.

Of course, that "refusal" part is a lesson I'm still learning! Unfortunately, a flame without a rebuttal gives the false appearance to members that (a) no one disagrees with it; (b) no one dares disagree with it; or (c) no one cares. The reality, of course, is that the flamer depends on that false appearance in order to draw us toward him, and once he sees a response he knows he has our attention. HE is the one who KNOWS the truth behind the false appearance: if no one answers him, he is being ignored, and he has lost that round of his game.

Subject: Refreshing threads?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 04:07 PM

Wolfgang refreshed one thread, not many - and that seems to me to be a good idea. I wish people would be a lot slower to start new threads. It's usually much better to build on previous discussions.

I don't think it's a good idea to refresh a lot of threads as a response to flamers and trolls. It may seem like it should be effective, but it's still showing the flamer that he/she has our attention - and flamers feed on attention.

Instead of just refreshing a lot of thread, it's far better to find an old thread and ADD substantive information to it. I suppose that at times, it's a good idea to refresh an old thread - but if you do it too often, it becomes obnoxious. If you see a song request that hasn't been answered, add it to the Unanswered Requests PermaThread. If you see a thread that's particularly memorable, maybe you should add a link to it in the PermaThread Index.

But don't refresh threads as a response to flamers - don't respond to flamers in any way, and don't do anything to acknowledge them.

Thanks.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: OS/PMS: Which guest is refreshing all th
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 11:45 PM

I'll plead guilty to having refreshed a few old threads, for the reasone given by WSIWYG and John--mainly, a thread has gotten buried with no apparent success in getting the desired song, etc., or it is very old, yet very interesting, and I wanted to hear new people's input.

I doubt that my refreshings alone inspired this thread, because I would not call them "all this stuff." (It hasn't been dozens of them.)

Personally, if a thread appears to be offensive, I don't even open it, much less respond.

If I refreshed anonymously, it was probably just because it was quicker. If that is a problem, I'll be sure to identify myself whenever I refresh a thread. I'll also have to learn how to add a thread to the unanswered threads or permathreads.

Like some of the others above, I am new to Mudcat and still getting the feel of Catiquette (written and otherwise).

Genie